20:00:35 <mmcgrath> #startmeeting Infrastructure
20:00:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 19 20:00:35 2009 UTC.  The chair is mmcgrath. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:35 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:37 <mmcgrath> #topic Who's here?
20:00:39 * ricky 
20:00:40 <dgilmore> yo
20:00:43 <jcollie> yo
20:00:45 <pitr> helo
20:01:02 <jcollie> is the NFR conf call supposed to be streamed and recorded?
20:01:30 <mmcgrath> jcollie: no idea, is that mechanism all working?
20:01:47 * nirik is hanging around in the back.
20:01:49 <jcollie> mmcgrath: should be
20:01:59 * a-k is around
20:02:03 <mmcgrath> Ok, lets get started.
20:02:11 <mmcgrath> #topic F12
20:02:14 <mmcgrath> .tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report/9
20:02:14 <zodbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/5onzad
20:02:19 <mmcgrath> lets go through what hasn't been closed yet
20:02:20 <mmcgrath> .1787
20:02:25 <mmcgrath> that's me, I'll close it now
20:02:36 <mmcgrath> .ticket 1787
20:02:37 <zodbot> mmcgrath: #1787 (Change Freeze) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1787
20:02:38 <mmcgrath> .ticket 1788
20:02:40 <zodbot> mmcgrath: #1788 (Websites) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1788
20:02:41 * ricky closes all of the websites ones
20:02:44 <mmcgrath> k
20:02:50 <ricky> Oops, they already were :-)
20:02:52 * sijis is here..
20:02:54 <mmcgrath> .ticket 1790
20:02:55 <zodbot> mmcgrath: #1790 (Verify RELENG permissions) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1790
20:03:00 * josemm is here
20:03:10 <mmcgrath> smooge mentioned he might be a little late to the meeting today but that one's him and I'm sure it's fine.
20:03:14 <mmcgrath> .ticket 1796
20:03:15 <zodbot> mmcgrath: #1796 (Disable wiki caching) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1796
20:03:25 <mmcgrath> I'll do it now
20:03:28 <mmcgrath> .ticket 1794
20:03:29 <zodbot> mmcgrath: #1794 (Lessons Learned) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1794
20:03:33 <mmcgrath> And the last one, lessons learned.
20:03:37 <mmcgrath> what did we learn this release?
20:03:40 <mmcgrath> what did and didn't go well?
20:03:43 <smooge> egooms is here just a little slow
20:03:53 * abadger1999 shows up
20:04:04 <sijis> sixxs is not allowing uploads. i checked yesterday
20:04:11 <mmcgrath> I think the number of mirrors we had at release time was quite good, sat at 85% for a long time
20:04:19 <mmcgrath> sijis: yeah I saw your note on that on release day, what's the deal?
20:04:21 <sijis> so i couldn't add the torrents for ipv6 folks
20:04:31 <mdomsch> the bitflip still caught some mirrors by surprise
20:04:35 <sijis> yeah, i dunno, i posted a message on the forum and i haven't heard back.
20:04:36 <mdomsch> even though I had told them about it beforehand
20:04:48 <mdomsch> someone wanted a reminder that they should run report_mirror after manually bitflipping
20:05:09 <mdomsch> before the bitflip, we had ~160 mirrors checked in and ready with ISOs
20:05:17 <mmcgrath> smooge: just checking if 1790 is done
20:05:21 <geppetto> having rsync of everything available was a huge win, IMO
20:05:56 <mdomsch> right after the bitflip, we had ~17 ready, up to almost 100 within a few hours, and by today, we're at about 140
20:06:04 <smooge> mmcgrath, closing right now
20:06:06 <mmcgrath> mdomsch: 'caught some mirrors by surprise' was it a pretty big problem or just general murmurings?
20:06:15 <mdomsch> mmcgrath, general
20:06:32 <smooge> which is an improvement off the old days :)
20:06:32 <mdomsch> our emails aren't necessarily high priority
20:06:32 <mmcgrath> yeah
20:06:42 <mmcgrath> nirik: were you hanging out in #fedora on release day?  How'd the mirrors hold out?
20:06:52 <mmcgrath> were people having problems getting to isos?
20:07:02 <dgilmore> sijis: they have never allowed uploads
20:07:04 <mmcgrath> EvilBob: how about you?
20:07:07 <mdomsch> also, we didn't have mirrors.*.kernel.org for several hours on release day due to their DNS breakage
20:07:12 * mmcgrath should have been in there but forgot.
20:07:12 <dgilmore> sijis: they allow you to recommend a torrent
20:07:15 <nirik> mmcgrath: things were good.
20:07:21 <sijis> dgilmore: that's what i meant. :|
20:07:22 <nirik> opening up the mirrors/torrents early really helped.
20:07:30 <EvilBob> mmcgrath: not that I noticed
20:07:40 <sijis> posting a link to the torrent
20:07:48 <mmcgrath> EvilBob: nirik: k, thanks
20:08:01 <mmcgrath> sijis: it's possible next release we'll have our own ipv6 torrent so that step might not be so important :)
20:08:11 <jcollie> yeah, my torrent seeded got pounded right after the announcement
20:08:19 <mmcgrath> One thing I wanted to note was the night before the release and the various problems nirik and I had with the torrent system.
20:08:32 <mmcgrath> but it was hard to say for sure if it was really a problem or just torrent behaving as it should.
20:08:34 <jcollie> s/seeded/seeder/
20:08:42 <mmcgrath> nirik: how'd your seeders hold up on actual release day?
20:08:44 <mmcgrath> jcollie: mine did too
20:08:58 <mdomsch> http://fpaste.org/tGQj/ shows in text the pre-bitflip (first 3) to post-bitflip hourly count of mirrors w/ ISOs, as MM knew it
20:09:12 <nirik> my torrents couldn't talk to the tracker at all when I got up. I wasn't seeding. ;(
20:09:21 <nirik> I switched over to transmission and everything came up ok.
20:09:23 <jcollie> i'm just glad i put a rate limit on
20:09:39 <mmcgrath> mdomsch: interesting
20:09:47 <jcollie> i enabled DHT on my seeder, hopefully that helped
20:09:55 <mmcgrath> nirik: so perhaps rtorrent is teh suck?  :(
20:10:09 <nirik> yeah, on epel at least. ;( it works fine in fedora, so not sure whats going on there. ;(
20:10:14 <nirik> I guess I should file a bug on it.
20:10:26 <mmcgrath> <nod>
20:10:33 <jcollie> i was using rtorrent on F12, i think it's much newer so hopefully fewer bugs
20:10:57 <mmcgrath> In general though, things went like clock work.
20:11:00 <mmcgrath> oh, there was one odd thing
20:11:03 <mmcgrath> stickster: you there?
20:11:16 <mmcgrath> What happened with the announcement?  Did someone approve it or are you on some auto-approver list?
20:11:36 * mdomsch seeded at max for a while, has dropped off quite a bit by now
20:12:12 * mmcgrath assumes mr stickster is a bit busy at the moment.
20:12:21 <mmcgrath> mdomsch: yeah same here, I actually closed most of my seeders.
20:12:30 <mmcgrath> Does anyone have anything else related to the release they'd like to discuss?
20:12:42 <stickster> mmcgrath: Right, it auto-approved for some reaso
20:12:45 <stickster> *reason
20:12:53 <stickster> Maybe because I'm on the list of owners/moderators?
20:13:04 <mmcgrath> stickster: I'm officially under the opinion that relying on moderation is not a good thing :)
20:13:06 <stickster> In any case, I put both my emails on the "auto-hold" list now
20:13:24 <stickster> So nothing I post should go straight through any more, as a check measure
20:13:35 <stickster> Thankfully I had checked all the links, and didn't post it until almost right at the appointed time.
20:13:36 <mmcgrath> <nod
20:13:42 <mmcgrath> Ok, if no one has anything else we'll move on to the next topic
20:13:54 <mmcgrath> #topic Fedora 13 - Jesse's Girl.
20:13:57 * ricky notes that we should all keep a good eye on the webmaster@ queue
20:14:12 <mmcgrath> So what do we want to see in F13 for infrastructure?
20:14:28 <mmcgrath> I have a couple of big wants
20:14:30 <smooge> ah man we need to name the release that
20:14:33 <mmcgrath> 1) a global search engine
20:14:41 <mmcgrath> 2) a proper CDN.
20:14:41 <josemm> +1
20:15:03 <mmcgrath> and probably a few other things I'm forgetting at the moment.
20:15:09 <mmcgrath> what do others want to be working on for this release?
20:15:12 <abadger1999> Packagedb-0.5  w/ tags for yum and critpath markings for bodhi, releng.
20:15:18 <mmcgrath> oh, 3) finalize alt.fp.o, secondary.fp.o, etc.
20:15:41 <mmcgrath> 4) death to the term cloud
20:15:42 <jcollie> is there any F/OSS CDN software? i've never gone looking
20:15:44 <mdomsch> MM push mechanism, maybe using qpid
20:15:45 <mmcgrath> but that's a bit out of scope :)
20:15:56 * lmacken rolls in late
20:16:07 <mmcgrath> jcollie: I've been talking on various mailing lists, it seems almost everyone rolls their own
20:16:11 <mmcgrath> and they do it with geiop
20:16:14 <abadger1999> amqp server that's receiving notifications from cvs and maybe a notification server working off of those messages to replace the cvs syncmail script.
20:16:15 <ricky> Geo DNS sounds cool :-)
20:16:33 <mmcgrath> mdomsch: BTW, remember that "have central servers redirect to us1.fedoraproject.org, de1.fedoraproject.org, etc idea?
20:16:48 <mmcgrath> Someone mentioned on another list that it does horrible things to search engines and page rank.
20:16:50 <mdomsch> mmcgrath, yes...
20:17:06 <mmcgrath> looks like everyone in almost every case is using geoip so I see no reason we shouldn't continue down that road.
20:17:22 <mdomsch> geoip and not geodns
20:17:29 <mmcgrath> err sorry, geodns
20:17:38 <mdomsch> ok
20:17:46 <mmcgrath> I guess I kind of group those into the same technology but they're really not are they?
20:17:55 <smooge> pretty much everyone I know has tried something else at one point and then just went with geoip after some flameout
20:17:56 <mdomsch> similar, but at different levels
20:18:01 <nirik> abadger1999: self service cvs requests? :)
20:18:06 <jcollie> hmm does BIND do geodns now?  iirc the powerdns stuff looked icky to me
20:18:16 <mdomsch> jcollie, yes, warthog9 wrote a patch for it
20:18:16 <mmcgrath> jcollie: it doesn't yet
20:18:20 <ricky> wikipedia uses pdns for what it's worth
20:18:20 <mmcgrath> not natively anyway
20:18:21 <abadger1999> nirik: Yeah, But not for 0.5.0; maybe 0.5.1.
20:18:29 <ricky> And it has a backend that takes bind-like zonefiles too
20:18:30 <mdomsch> everyone else uses pdns
20:18:52 <smooge> centos uses pdns
20:18:56 <abadger1999> nirik: I'm sorry, about the btw, it's pretty simple so I keep tossing it at new people but they keep tossing it back.  It must have the kiss of death or something.
20:19:10 <jcollie> does powerdns do dnssec too? i'd rather not go backwards on that front
20:19:11 <mmcgrath> smooge: oh, that's good to know.  Do you know who's primarly in charge of it?  z00dax or Evolution?
20:19:15 <nirik> abadger1999: no worries. Would be nice tho.
20:19:19 <mmcgrath> jcollie: my understanding is yes.
20:19:32 <mmcgrath> jcollie: but we'll have to verify that.
20:19:44 <smooge> I think it was Johnny at one point, but it may have moved to Evolution.
20:19:58 * mmcgrath will ping those guys and find out.
20:19:59 <smooge> I didn't ask to be blessed to the level of knowing.
20:20:14 <mmcgrath> Anyone have any other infrastructure technologies they'd like to see?
20:20:18 <mmcgrath> #help
20:20:29 <mmcgrath> #idea global search engine
20:20:38 <mmcgrath> #idea proper CDN probably with geodns and pdns
20:20:45 <mmcgrath> #idea finalization of the new primary mirror
20:20:49 <mmcgrath> #idea message bus
20:21:03 <mmcgrath> #idea MM messaging of some kind
20:21:06 <smooge> #idea cloud replacement
20:21:13 <mmcgrath> :)
20:21:19 <mmcgrath> am I forgetting anything?
20:21:29 <abadger1999> #idea pkgdb w/ tags and critpath
20:21:29 <mmcgrath> lmacken: do you guys have any major milestones to have done for this release wrt fcommunity?
20:21:38 <mmcgrath> #idea insight (probably very soon here)
20:21:54 <ricky> Zikula for docs would be awesome :-)
20:21:58 <jcollie> do we wanna go down the road of replacing CVS with ??? for packages? or leave that to rel-eng to figure out
20:21:59 <abadger1999> #idea notification server (amqp => email)
20:21:59 <lmacken> mmcgrath: ideally AMQP integration... hooks into our services and live widgets to expose them
20:22:08 <mmcgrath> <nod>
20:22:18 <mmcgrath> #idea fedoracommunity AMQP integration with widgets
20:22:41 <mmcgrath> jcollie: actually I believe there's goign to be a talk of that at fudcon
20:22:42 <jcollie> ftalk front end in fedoracommunity?
20:22:52 <lmacken> jcollie: I saw a 'talk' branch in git that ian was hacking on
20:22:53 <pitr> I'm new here but if You are still using cvs its quite easy to swith to svn from it
20:22:56 <mmcgrath> but I'm not sure if it'll make it for F13, maybe F14
20:23:12 <mmcgrath> pitr: we've discussed that in the past, what you gain by doing that is questionable.
20:23:26 <mmcgrath> people are generally looking to improve workflow, not just the technology on the back end.
20:23:32 <abadger1999> pitr: Yeah... but the only people who want to move are people who want dvcs so we'll either stick w/ cvs or go dvcs.
20:23:52 <smooge> rewrite of all infrastructure in go?
20:24:04 <jcollie> hg and git are the leading candidates, but it's kind of a religious question at this point
20:24:14 <abadger1999> is go the new javascript?
20:24:16 <abadger1999> :-)
20:24:39 <mmcgrath> smooge: go ftw!
20:24:44 <jcollie> the few samples of go code i have seen so far are about as pretty as perl code
20:25:02 <smooge> abadger1999, only after its been made into a plugin
20:25:30 <mmcgrath> Ok, does anyone have anything else on this topic?  If not we'll move on to the next topic
20:25:44 <smooge> abadger1999, I thinks it going to be just someone will have to be a villain and say its X. so sorry
20:25:50 <dgilmore> mmcgrath: id like to try work on updating koji auth/ and notifications during F-13 life cycle
20:26:05 <ricky> PKI would be nice too :-)
20:26:06 <mmcgrath> #idea updating koji auth and notifications
20:26:17 <mmcgrath> #idea pki (ricky says he'll do this and it'll be done by january)
20:26:19 <mmcgrath> :-P
20:26:20 * ricky runs
20:26:36 <dgilmore> #idea further streamling and full integration of secondary arches
20:26:36 <mmcgrath> Ok, next topic then
20:26:44 <mmcgrath> #topic Search Engine
20:26:46 <mmcgrath> a-k: hit me!
20:26:54 <a-k> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Search
20:26:58 <|pitr|> heh - I lost connection - it seams that ath9k dev's still have things to do ;)
20:27:04 <dgilmore> mmcgrath: i have a bunch of dogtag packages to review on the pki side of things
20:27:10 <a-k> huzaifas and I were thinking we'd have candidates to try out on a PT server in January
20:27:25 <a-k> Nothing has blown us away yet, but we should have worked through most of the candidates by then
20:27:36 <a-k> If I can make Apache Solr work, it sounds really nice from the docs
20:27:47 <a-k> We'll have a better handle on specific PT requirements by January
20:28:01 <a-k> I think that's about it.
20:28:09 <mmcgrath> dgilmore: yeah I forgot about that.
20:28:27 <mmcgrath> a-k: thanks for the update.
20:28:30 <smooge> pki?
20:28:43 <smooge> sorry.. will talk off chan
20:28:47 <mmcgrath> smooge: yeah our pki right now is very... ehh manual
20:28:59 <mmcgrath> and not fun to manage :)
20:29:10 <mmcgrath> Ok, and I think that's really all I had for the meeting
20:29:13 <mmcgrath> #topic Open Floor
20:29:19 <mmcgrath> anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?
20:29:25 <mmcgrath> any new members want to make themselves known?
20:29:30 <jcollie> our first real f-talk meeting is under way...
20:29:31 <dgilmore> smooge: public key infrastructure
20:29:39 <dgilmore> jcollie: its going ok
20:29:41 <|pitr|> I'm new
20:30:10 <abadger1999> |pitr|: Welcome.  What would you like to do?
20:30:12 <abadger1999> :-)
20:30:14 <smooge> hi |pitr| welcome to Sysadmins Anonymous
20:30:18 <|pitr|> I've sent email 3 days ago on fedora-infrastructure
20:30:50 <ricky> Welcome!
20:31:00 <|pitr|> I'm not quite sure yet
20:31:23 <|pitr|> I wor as a some kind sysadmin at r&d department of my company
20:31:40 <|pitr|> I'm good at troubleshooting
20:32:03 <mmcgrath> |pitr|: have you seen - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report/1
20:32:09 <mmcgrath> it has a good list of things we're currently working on.
20:32:22 <|pitr|> right now I'm reading what I can find and trying to follow the discusion
20:32:37 <|pitr|> no
20:33:16 <mmcgrath> |pitr|: well welcome, also do hang out in #fedora-admin, that's the business end of the group :)
20:33:47 <|pitr|> thx
20:33:53 <mmcgrath> Ok, if no one has anything else to discuss we'll close the meeting in 30s.
20:34:49 <mmcgrath> alrighty!
20:34:51 <mmcgrath> #endmeeting