Note - these logs have been slightly redacted due to spam. The originals are available to the infrastructure team if required. 02:00:21 #startmeeting 02:00:21 Meeting started Wed Dec 2 02:00:21 2009 UTC. The chair is StabbyMc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 02:00:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 02:00:34 #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Rollcall 02:00:48 .fasinfo jbwillia 02:00:49 VileGent: User: jbwillia, Name: Ben Williams, email: vaioof@yahoo.com, Creation: 2006-04-17, IRC Nick: Southern_Gentleman, Timezone: US/Eastern, Locale: en, Extension: 5100572, GPG key ID: 295A4FBC, Status: active 02:00:53 .fas smcbrien 02:00:53 VileGent: Approved Groups: cla_done ambassadors freemedia cla_fedora gitcourses irc-support-operators 02:00:56 .fas jfsaucier 02:00:57 VileGent: Unapproved Groups: None 02:00:59 .fasinfo mock 02:01:01 StabbyMc: smcbrien '' 02:01:05 djf_jeff: jfsaucier 'Jean-Francois Saucier' 02:01:08 mock: User: mock, Name: None, email: mark@mockgeek.com, Creation: 2008-07-25, IRC Nick: mock, Timezone: None, Locale: None, Extension: 5111336, GPG key ID: None, Status: active 02:01:11 .fasinfo etank 02:01:12 mock: Approved Groups: cla_done cla_fedora 02:01:16 mock: Unapproved Groups: fedorabugs ambassadors 02:01:19 .fas ke4qqq 02:01:25 etank: User: etank, Name: Eric Lake, email: ericlake@gmail.com, Creation: 2009-11-22, IRC Nick: etank, Timezone: America/New_York, Locale: en, Extension: 5140933, GPG key ID: 5A5151D6, Status: active 02:01:28 .fas dnhodgson 02:01:28 etank: Approved Groups: cla_done ambassadors cla_fedora 02:01:32 etank: Unapproved Groups: None 02:01:36 ke4qqq: ke4qqq 'David Nalley' 02:01:40 dnhodgson: dnhodgson 'Darcy Hodgson' 02:02:04 Hi, sorry if I am late 02:02:10 .fas actown 02:02:14 no worries, just doing roll call 02:02:15 Ac-town: actown 'Derrick Dymock' - acactown 'Acac Town' 02:03:13 Any more roll call? 02:03:20 .fas wmorri 02:03:21 Will_: gwmorris 'Gary W. Morris' - wmorri 'William Morris' 02:03:44 I am the second one 02:04:23 #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Announcements 02:04:47 The only announcement I've got is that I recieved my twill Fedora buttonup. 02:05:04 I'll be posting pictures later; let the oohs and aahs commence :-) 02:05:30 Anyone else have announcements? 02:05:47 FUDcon is this weekend 02:05:53 still one board and one fesco town hall this week 02:06:19 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections 02:07:30 #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Events 02:07:58 So as dnhodgson pointed out, FUDcon this weekend. 02:08:31 I don't know if you all saw lcafiero's e-mail about Scale 02:08:41 But vwbusguy is the owner of that event now. 02:09:10 So probably next meeting we'll be syncing up on what has to be shipped from to where and whatnot for that in January 02:09:18 * inode0 applauds vwbusguy 02:09:38 if we have anything to ship :) 02:10:08 inode0: lets discuss that in "Budget Review" 02:10:09 the V banners are wanted to scale 02:10:53 who has them now? 02:11:09 the west coast crew from SLC? 02:11:25 they are going to FUDCon 02:11:55 jds2001, has them 02:12:32 has them being shipped to FUDCon? 02:12:43 jds2001, has them 02:13:01 and will be carrying them to the bus to fudcon 02:13:33 OK. who's going to be at FUDCon and will ship them to vwbusguy? 02:13:49 VileGent: I will be there 02:14:00 VileGent: i will be personally carrying them 02:14:03 * ke4qqq imagines it'd be cheapest to bring them back across the border and ship them ups 02:14:32 jds2001: can you bring them back and ship 'em? 02:14:35 * inode0 thinks jds2001 should hold on to them in case something else pops up first 02:14:37 probably, when does vwbusguy need em? 02:14:45 feb 02:15:04 oh, yeah, I'll hang on to em til like jan 15 in that case? 02:15:46 Should be good unless something else crops up. 02:16:24 if we talk about events, I will go to a local radio show about free software on Dec 16th to present Fedora, podcast will be available for french speaking people 02:16:38 ;) 02:16:39 Other event news? The Events page is looking pretty slim. 02:16:45 djf_jeff: Nice! 02:17:16 djf_jeff: awesome - lets make sure you blog that in advance and after the fact! 02:18:14 ke4qqq: sure, I will also promote F12 release party that take place Dec 17th in Quebec, good free publicity ;) 02:20:49 #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Budget Review. 02:21:31 inode0: so you were saying about having no stuff? 02:22:16 is spevack here tonight? 02:23:11 inode0: you were saying about having no stuff to ship? 02:23:35 * ke4qqq notes we just started a new fiscal quarter and thus new budget cycle 02:23:59 and we essentially reserved enough for the balance of media costs, tshirts, case badges and a few other things 02:24:29 So now it's just a matter of doing the ordering? 02:24:48 sorry, distracted and here we go again 02:24:56 that's my understanding 02:25:09 make sure inode concurs with my memory of things though 02:25:38 i'm here 02:25:41 So do we tag the original orderers to re-order again? 02:25:44 a bit late, but I'm here. sorry! 02:25:52 spevack: just in time. 02:26:28 * spevack reads backward 02:26:44 bottom line -- we need to buy more swag? 02:26:49 Yep 02:27:01 spevack: yeah we talked about what we needed to order a month or two back 02:27:27 VileGent: can you address this? 02:27:52 not in here i cant 02:28:16 well we just started the new quarter, so now's the time to buy everything we need 02:28:31 CDs are already taken care of 02:28:39 spend early and spend often :) 02:29:02 what is going on? :P 02:29:04 spevack: what are we looking at for budget? 02:29:14 spevack: we have first rate trolls. 02:29:16 Tabmow: little help? 02:29:21 Tabmow: can you help us out here? we are trying to have a meeting. 02:29:23 spevack: they infested #rhel a few seconds ago 02:29:36 guys /ignore them 02:29:44 Tabmow: thx, you're the best 02:29:54 No problems. 02:30:03 jds2001: this is by no means first-rate trolling 02:30:04 Tabmow: thank you very much. 02:30:12 I give it at best a B- 02:30:43 hi 02:30:47 whay am I needed? 02:30:55 StabbyMc: setting aside the money we've already spent on media, I'd like to figure out how much of what we need $3,500 or so gets us, and then maybe we'll add more budget after Jan 1 when I see how other regions' needs start to shape up. 02:30:57 skvidal: Tabmow took care of it. 02:31:11 so do we have a wishlist of stuff we're ready to buy? 02:31:19 $3,500 tends to go a pretty long way on our swag needs. 02:31:29 Tabmow: Why did you do that? 02:31:29 replacement case badges 02:31:47 inode0: what else was on the list? 02:31:50 tshirts, and casebadges 02:32:00 where does the budget come from? donataions? red hat? etc. 02:32:06 Can I help? 02:32:11 etank: i can answer that 02:32:15 etank: RHT gives to commarch, and commarch gives to us 02:32:20 If you give me some of the swag, I can get you donations. 02:32:42 etank: Red Hat's Community Architecture team has a bunch of budget for building communities that are important to Red Hat. Fedora is obviously at the top of that list. 02:32:52 ObamasTheMan: thanks for the offer, I'll chat with you after the meeting, k? 02:33:27 I'm the manager of that team, and one of the things I do each quarter is set aside a chunk of the CommArch budget for big Fedora events -- like FUDCons and Fedora Activity Days -- and another chunk for general regional support worldwide. 02:33:32 That's what we're discussing now, 02:33:36 for some history and context, see here: 02:33:42 I have to go now, sorry. There's a Pakistani trying to kill me. 02:33:56 etank: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Accounting 02:34:09 thanks for filling me in spevack. it helps me understand whats going on some. 02:34:44 I want to know if there could be some discussion about budget for a Canadian EventBox in the near future? 02:34:44 etank: more specifically -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Budget 02:35:13 djf_jeff: I've got no problem with that. 02:35:22 djf_jeff: can we get that ordered during fudcon? 02:35:44 StabbyMc: I'd like to spend around $8k total in NA this quarter. 02:35:50 at least as a starting point 02:35:51 lots of commarch plastic should be close at hand to help you 02:35:57 :) 02:36:05 there was some talk on the mailing list about not doing install DVDs. how does that get decided? what is the cost associated with the DVD creation and where would the money be spent if not on their creation? 02:36:06 ke4qqq: that would be nice for me! 02:36:25 etank: these decisions are discussed and made at this very meeting, or on the fedora-ambassadors-list 02:36:39 etank: media is made regionally, so each region decides that 02:36:41 some of it has to do with demand -- what sorts of media people ask for 02:36:46 spevack: and by this quarter you mean Q4FY10 which started today? 02:36:51 StabbyMc: that's right. 02:37:20 * spevack wants to start building up that budget page for this quarter. 02:37:26 * spevack looks up the cost of the media 02:37:45 media wasn't paid Q3? 02:37:52 May I interject one comment about case badges? 02:37:54 or out of Q3 budget? 02:38:03 inode0: please 02:38:33 There is a horrific startup cost on those with a tipping point at around $1000 02:38:50 then the price gets cheap and constant 02:38:51 StabbyMc: it was not. Q3 was filled up with other regions, so media is being done in this quarter. It won't be a problem though, I assure you. 02:39:20 spevack: no worries, just a little confused :-) 02:39:24 so basically they work out to about $1 each for the first 1000 and then about 10 cents each after that 02:39:37 inode0: could the budget for case badges be shared amongst the other regions to get the numbers up and the price down? 02:39:59 * spevack looks at the previous years 02:40:04 so I would encourage us to try to plan case badge purchases in higher volume less regularly 02:40:14 last year we split the Fedora 10 media costs across Q4 and Q1! 02:40:17 inode0: Are those case badges high quality? 02:40:24 very high 02:40:29 Ac-town: they're nice. 02:40:39 Like ones you get with your mobo? 02:40:42 so we've spent about $4k on media. Which means we should put together a shopping list in order of desire, and spend up to another $4k, then take stock of where we are in relation to other regions. 02:40:48 the case badges are REALLY NICE 02:40:49 Ac-town: yes. 02:40:50 i was blown away 02:40:52 +1 02:40:59 the case badges are the "powered by Fedora" one inch badges right? 02:41:12 etank: yes 02:41:13 inode0: +1 02:41:43 i still have some case badges around. 02:41:50 im gonna bring what ive got to fudcon 02:42:01 jds2001: don't tell anyone, virtually none are left :) 02:42:06 inode0: so are you wanting to go heavy into case badges this quarter, add a couple of tees, and then order other new swag items in following quarters to round out supply? 02:42:07 minus the f11 media that's fairly useless :) 02:42:09 spevack: etank asked a great question 02:42:31 would other regions like to piggy-bag on a case badge order you think? 02:42:40 piggy-back 02:42:42 There's an EMEA ambassadors meeting tomorrow -- if someone posts a digital picture of the badges we can recommend making a Giant Amount and sharing the cost. just as etank suggested 02:42:48 my guess is there would be no objection at all 02:43:04 inode0: you have some pics of them right? 02:43:17 spevack: and we'd just withhold their amount from the quarterly payment to fedora emea? 02:43:22 I'm getting a 403 now 02:43:27 s/we'd/you'd/ 02:43:47 ke4qqq: yeah, I'd just tag some amount of that total cost w/ EMEA and that would show up when I add up the totals per region 02:44:20 and would latam be interested as well 02:44:43 * spevack emails ambassadors-list with this question. 02:44:50 +1 02:45:10 Can we get a price quote for something like 5,000? 02:45:26 we want more than that actually 02:45:32 well, whatever :) 02:45:38 it helps that they are light and thus cheap to ship 02:45:47 So that turns us back to my earlier question about replenishment. 02:45:59 iirc they are about $1000 for the first 1000, the next 3000 cost about $300 more 02:46:12 Do we get davidunc to do the order again, or does someone else take care of it or what? 02:46:32 I'd like to pay that initial $1000 a lot less often 02:46:43 inode0: haha 02:46:48 yeah, we should buy a LOT 02:46:54 it would be nice if the company that they are ordered from would split the shippment up into each region and ship directly to a contact there 02:47:00 * spevack is laughing at the mental graph of that pricing structure 02:47:13 etank: if we give them the right addresses, I'm sure they will 02:47:27 that could save more costs at least 02:47:27 etank: that has historically ended badly for us 02:47:32 Yeah, the initial $1000 is painful. 02:47:44 So in theory we can about 10k badges for $2k, inode? 02:47:44 etank: we end up paying either way - they charge us shipping or we absorb it later 02:47:50 ke4qqq: yeah i could see some room for error and headaches 02:48:09 inode0: more or less... 02:48:11 I think so, if we get the same arrangement as last time 02:48:14 so for 3k we would have about 21K 02:48:15 and those badges have been INCREDIBLY popular 02:48:27 well, then we should basically buy a year's supply for the whole world. 02:48:40 right? 02:48:42 +1 to a year of case badges for THE WORLD 02:48:48 +1 02:48:53 +1 ;) 02:49:06 So who's owning case badge pricing, ordering, shipping, etc. ? 02:49:07 +1 02:49:34 I'd prefer david duncan, or someone new, but failing either of those I will. 02:49:45 who did it the first time? It should be that person and me working together 02:49:57 davdunc 02:50:53 davdunc who is not here tonight. 02:50:55 ok, give me the action items of (1) getting a +1 from the rest of the ambassadors, which is pretty much a formality, (2) finding davdunc and either (3) working with him or (4) calling the company myself and seeing if they still have our specs 02:51:23 spevack: davdunc is on the Events page with an event in January, so he's still around. 02:51:47 cool -- I'll try to make most of this happen before heading to toronto, otherwise I'll do it at FUDCon 02:51:54 email is best contact for him, he's pretty responsive, just not on irc because of $dayjob net restrictions 02:52:13 sounds good 02:52:15 easy as pie 02:52:37 slight correction 02:52:38 he was Last seen : Nov 11 06:27:11 2009 (2 weeks, 6 days, 20:24:52 ago) 02:53:00 #action spevack works on case badges (1) conglomerating world wide ordering for badges (2) working with davdunc for ordering (3) ordering 02:53:09 I think they were $180/1000 after the first 1000 but the same idea 02:53:38 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Budget 02:53:43 * spevack starts a list on that page 02:53:51 Tee shirts? 02:53:55 we got those from New Mexico, davdunc was the tattoo man who we don't need to bother again yet 02:54:28 * ke4qqq thought StabbyMc was the tats man - ohhh well what do I know 02:54:30 personally I could wait for Q1 for case badges if that enables a bigger order 02:54:35 inode0: ok the casebadge person nick started with a t? 02:54:50 ke4qqq: I'm the pen guy. 02:54:52 dthomasdigital iirc was his nick 02:55:00 inode0: especially sharing the cost across regions, I don't think there's any need to wait. 02:55:01 ayah. 02:55:11 ok 02:55:11 .fas dthomasdigital 02:55:12 StabbyMc: dthomasdigital '' 02:55:15 * spevack is getting a phone call that he needs to take. Will read backwards in a bit. 02:55:23 assuming he can do it again 02:55:36 yep, but spevack said he'd look him up. 02:55:47 Are we putting tees on the wishlist too? 02:55:48 anyone new want to take up the tshirt replenishment? 02:56:17 does DemonJester want to relinquish doing that? 02:56:48 just thinking we should share the tasklist around a bit. 02:56:49 There is a company up here in Canada i have worked with on clothing. i can look into pricing 02:56:59 * maxamillion is ultra late ... very sorry, just got home 02:57:16 maxamillion: we're still talking budget 02:57:33 maxamillion: YOU have all the action items :D 02:57:50 jds2001: oh noes! 02:57:57 StabbyMc: wow, nice 02:58:15 StabbyMc: where was that on the list of topics for the meeting? 02:58:29 maxamillion Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule 02:58:36 damn, I fail 02:58:52 yes .. yes you do 02:58:56 I am sure maxamillion needed to know that 02:58:57 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Ambassadors_2009-12-1 02:59:16 * StabbyMc blames paste buffer 02:59:59 dnhodgson: I wouldn't mind seeing pricing; though in the past the international shipping has killed the budget. 03:00:36 there is also a couple of companies up where I live that I could talk to about prices 03:00:39 dnhodgson: and even if we produce in US, doesn't mean you can't do it - our traditional supplier just bills max 03:01:24 for shirts here is the thing from my perspective 03:02:01 I think it is more efficient with a lot less duplicated effort if once we have a supplier and process identified that works and that we are happy with we stick with it 03:02:12 inode0: +1 03:02:14 * spevack agrees 03:02:18 +1 - unless there is a significant advantage to moving away 03:02:20 the shirt supplier is on the wiki *somewhere* 03:02:30 stick with people until we become unhappy for an unfixable reason 03:02:35 however, with the current economic conditions, there are deals to be had. 03:02:35 So unless someone can beat the current prices we pay I think we are better off staying with the same supplier 03:02:37 is there possibly an online retailer that would be more cost effective than a local one? 03:02:50 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/AmbassadorVendors#North_America 03:03:07 ian-shirts or older white shirt with logo? 03:03:30 *erhemm* 03:03:34 the correct name is "splatter"> 03:03:43 ;) 03:03:44 * inode0 doesn't mind others investigating options if they want to 03:03:58 I like the splatter shirts, but I know they're much more expensive to produce. 03:04:24 I also have a slight preference to go back to the white shirts this time around because we can get a lot more for the same price 03:04:26 * ke4qqq <3 my ian-shirt 03:04:56 the splatter shirts are the coolest Fedora shirts ever 03:05:06 is the price difference because of the shirt color or because of the screen print cost? 03:05:13 but they are also the most expensive 03:05:15 inode0: I actually wear my splatter shirt. The white ones I gave them all away. 03:05:29 6 times through the machine as opposed to 3 as I recall 03:05:37 maxamillion: splatter has more screened colors 03:06:03 anyone have a pic of the shirts being discussed? 03:06:13 think about it from the perspective of random conference attendee 03:06:22 does that person care as much as we do? 03:06:47 StabbyMc: gotchya 03:07:05 etank: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Artwork_T(2d)Shirt_ianweller_fedora_splatter_shirt_preview.png 03:07:06 inode0: I agree they won't care as much 03:07:26 I keep my white one and wear it when i give talks, but every shirt I own is a dark color because I seem to stain white shirts like crazy 03:07:32 (well almost every shirt I own) 03:07:38 StabbyMc: that is a nice one 03:07:40 i can tell you that they rather have a shirt than no shirt 03:08:03 http://fedorapeople.org/~inode0/swag/fedora-case-badges.jpg 03:08:04 i think i remember seeing the white ones at OLF in 2008 (they didnt give me one though) 03:08:08 from my experience at Ohio Linuxfest last year 03:08:09 i need to go. will catch up on meeting notes later. 03:08:20 StabbyMc: ooo the splatter t-shirt is awesome 03:08:22 * inode0 doesn't think that is supposed to be the url but it is what works at the moment 03:08:47 VileGent: i think that getting shirts is one of the main reason that some people go to OLF 03:09:01 inode0: I do really like the idea of case badges ... did I miss the convo on those due to my tardiness? 03:09:12 yes 03:09:23 maxamillion: we are ordering case badges for the ENTIRE WORLD 03:09:23 http://inode0.fedorapeople.org/swag/fedora-case-badges.jpg <- better url 03:09:25 fail ... ok, I'll read the logs then 03:09:31 ke4qqq: +1 :) 03:09:49 etank we didnt have any in 2009 and still had lots of traffic 03:10:07 what about other swag? 03:10:18 we probably have 1000 pens 03:10:30 should we order more buttons? 03:10:34 cost? 03:10:36 oh love my pen, actually sparked a convo with someone in one of my graduate comp sci courses 03:10:37 * StabbyMc is meh about buttons 03:10:42 because of the pen* 03:10:56 StabbyMc, but they seem popular 03:10:57 * StabbyMc would like a nice vynl sticker 03:11:01 my pens keep getting stolen by IT colleagues. 03:11:08 * ke4qqq would like a cling 03:11:09 I like my buttons, they are crowd pleasers for talks and easily attach to backpacks and other forms of book bag 03:11:14 * etank would like to have a mousepad 03:11:27 mousepads would be nice, but I imagine they would be expensive 03:11:28 arent mousepads expensive? 03:11:32 prolly too expensive 03:11:32 yes 03:11:45 ok, what we would like is one thing. What is popular at a booth? 03:11:46 still would be cool to have 03:12:03 case badges 03:12:26 we have those covered 03:12:26 how about patches? like ones that can be sewed to backpacks. 03:12:26 +1 case badges and shirts 03:12:26 pens 03:12:26 tees 03:12:26 stickers 03:12:45 StabbyMc: +1, +1, +1 03:13:06 shirts are huge imo. those plus the case badges would be a big hit. 03:13:12 case badges, tshirts, 3" voice label , rectangle Fedora sticker, tats 03:13:14 dnhodgson: those are spendy unless ordered in super huge bulk. 03:13:28 dnhodgson: etank: work up proposals for what you'd like to see, hard to make a decision without knowing the cost. 03:13:34 thats what i see as popular from the 2 shows i help with 03:13:59 fedora cookies too :) 03:14:06 I was working on clings, but put it on hold until I got the button-up shirt done 03:14:12 So I'll start up on clings again. 03:14:27 ke4qqq: more than what i said a sec ago? 03:14:29 etank: i think case badges would be quite good as well 03:14:35 #action dnhodgson works up pricing on replenishment tee shirts 03:14:46 can we stop talking about case badges now? 03:14:49 #action StabbyMc gets pricing for window clings 03:15:04 etank: uhhh yeah - get us varying quantities and prices, preferably from at least two vendors.....plus artwork for the design. 03:15:20 artwork for tees we have 03:15:24 etank: you should act like you are coming to us asking for the money to do it..... 03:15:30 because you are 03:15:33 clings I've got the Finity 03:16:00 ideas are great - but someone actually has to do the legwork. 03:16:24 It's been an hour + 15 and we still haven't gotten to the big topic, or at least big topic IMO. 03:16:25 and then place the order 03:16:38 +1 for moving to the topic 03:16:48 StabbyMc: what's a window cling? 03:17:47 #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Discussion Item Media Production 03:17:55 maxamillion: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+a+window+cling 03:18:05 ke4qqq: yeah yeah, already there ... but thanks :) 03:18:12 :) 03:18:35 StabbyMc: are we looking for a decision on this tonight? 03:18:50 ke4qqq: I'd like one 03:19:07 ke4qqq: though I'd be ok with tabling until next meeting too since it's getting so late. 03:19:13 But the topic keeps coming back. 03:19:21 So I'd like to finally put a nail in it and be done. 03:19:33 Well we can't really put a nail in it 03:19:43 why not? 03:19:49 What if F13 only has DVDs + netinst? 03:20:04 it will have livecd's 03:20:09 that's the point :) 03:20:18 will it have livedvds? 03:20:29 ke4qqq: it may, i see what you mean 03:20:30 ie - more content on the live media we produce 03:20:40 bah s/ie/eg/ 03:20:45 I don't know what it will have but in a nutshell 03:20:47 * jds2001 was thinking more "live media" 03:21:00 I favor producing only live media for distribution at shows 03:21:01 i am +1 for creating only live media, be that CD or DVD. 03:21:24 me thinks we should decide livemedia vs cd vs dvd and then ask fesco or releng to decide livecd vs livedvd 03:21:29 I'd like a media that can be either 03:21:47 StabbyMc: that would be great, huh? :) 03:21:48 StabbyMc: livedvd + netinst? 03:22:01 actually not a bad idea. 03:22:20 i think untill we know what exactly is going to happen we really cant tell 03:22:20 I suspect he meant live+install DVD 03:22:29 there was discussion on desktop list that led me to believe live CD is dead and that install image will be > 1G, most likely targetting a 2 G USB drive 03:22:30 two different boot targets to either boot into the livedvd or netinst 03:22:42 ooo, I do like the liveCD + netinstall idea 03:22:58 i raised the livecd issue and a few people said it would be a live dvd instead 03:23:02 can't one netinst from a liveCD now? 03:23:04 why would you do a netinst when you have the complete dvd with you? 03:23:11 I wonder how much space that would take up from the livecd 03:23:12 we would actually have room to do that on a dvd, we just need releng to tell us how feasible that is. 03:23:12 * ke4qqq suggests we tell fesco that we are considering only doing livemedia and that livemedia+netinst on a single iso would be cool, or livedvd and to figure out what the future will be for f13 and make a decision after they respond 03:23:17 +1 livemedia only for distrubuteing at shows 03:23:19 maxamillion: about 200mb 03:23:36 jds2001: oh ... damn 03:23:49 maxamillion: unacceptable for a livecd, but when you have dvd space to play with, it's fine 03:23:55 liveDVD is fine, it costs more but the point is to not produce 3 difference sorts of media really 03:23:56 jds2001: true 03:24:04 inode0: +1 03:24:05 and to produce what is most useful at shows 03:24:14