16:29:43 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG
16:29:43 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec  3 16:29:43 2009 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:29:43 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:01 * Sonar_Guy 
16:30:06 * thomasj 
16:30:08 <nirik> #topic Init process
16:30:11 <Khaytsus> Until the mailman comes and I can jet out of the house, I am here
16:30:30 * Southern_Gentlem 
16:30:52 * fenrus02 
16:31:32 * nirik will wait a min more, but already a pretty good turnout. ;)
16:32:52 <nirik> ok, I guess we can go ahead and get started.
16:33:36 <nirik> #topic op status for vwbusguy
16:34:21 <thomasj> Well..
16:34:26 <fenrus02> without going on a rant, i think most voters already said their piece in email
16:34:40 <nirik> yeah, I am not sure how much to summarize here.
16:34:57 <thomasj> I think we should give him the timeout he wants and see if he comes back in better shape.
16:35:10 <Sonar_Guy> fenrus02: they did and I am thinking that he needs to take some time away from IRC before we make a decision
16:35:15 <nirik> He made a mistake, he sounds like he is going to try and learn from it.
16:35:35 <nirik> yes, if he has real life issues to work out, he should go do that and take a break from irc.
16:35:36 <fenrus02> Sonar_Guy, tbf that's approximately what he's said he wants to do anyhow
16:35:38 <Southern_Gentlem> at this point i want to make a motion to delay this vote for 2 weeks to let the emotions settle first
16:35:38 <Sonar_Guy> I believe that he needs to get his personal life straightened out first
16:35:57 <thomasj> +1
16:36:11 <nirik> personally I am fine with just a warning for now, and let him take his break.
16:36:14 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: parsing my logs it is not the first time he has recommended stuff like this
16:36:23 <Khaytsus> I think it was a mistake, hopefully it's resolved now (darkice?)...  Let him sit back for a while, remember why he wanted to op in #fedora, then come back.
16:36:34 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: yeah, bob listed some more the other night...
16:36:39 <Sonar_Guy> Khaytsus: +1
16:36:40 <nirik> (or similar).
16:36:41 <thomasj> nirik, +1 warning and timeout
16:36:51 <pjones> good lord, I'm glad I don't know what you guys are talking about.
16:37:00 <nirik> pjones: yeah, you don't really want to. ;)
16:37:06 <Sonar_Guy> thomasj: +1 to the warning and timeout
16:37:18 <nirik> Basically someone was joking around and gave a user a command that nuked their install.
16:37:37 <DiscordianUK> Errk
16:37:39 <Southern_Gentlem> in another channel than #fedora
16:37:54 <nirik> yeah.
16:38:05 <fenrus02> both parties knew in advance they were screwing off
16:38:19 <nirik> and there were several others that lead up to that command too, so the user should have known they were not commands to run.
16:38:24 <mock> with great power comes great...something
16:38:28 <Southern_Gentlem> thats why i think we delay this vote for 2 weeks to let the emotions settle first
16:38:30 <nirik> anyhow, +1 to warning and timeout.
16:38:40 <Khaytsus> The context was:  Stupid/funny commands, forkbombs, etc....  I think it was said jokingly but was NOT prefixed (or postfixed) with DON'T DO THIS
16:38:51 <Sonar_Guy> Southern_Gentlem: I think a warning and a timeout would suffice
16:38:56 <Sonar_Guy> no need to delay
16:38:57 <Southern_Gentlem> but i am ok with a warning and timeout as well
16:38:58 <thomasj> That's 3 out of 5 for +1 warning and timeout
16:39:03 <Southern_Gentlem> +1
16:39:06 <fenrus02> +1
16:39:09 <thomasj> +1
16:39:17 <Khaytsus> +1
16:39:20 <fenrus02> the one i expected to speak up didnt
16:39:26 <nirik> ok, great. Lets wish him well with real life stuff and move on. ;)
16:39:30 <thomasj> fenrus02, yeah
16:39:33 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: +1
16:39:34 <EvilBob> I've said my piece
16:40:23 <Sonar_Guy> I do have one thing to interject though, If it happens again after the warning privileges need to be removed
16:40:23 * nirik nods. ok, shall we move on then?
16:40:25 <fenrus02> EvilBob, *nod*  wasnt sure if you had additional items or just wanted to put your delta into the mix ftr
16:40:46 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: yeah, hopefully this will sink in.
16:40:56 <Sonar_Guy> One can only hope
16:41:22 <Sonar_Guy> +1 to move on
16:41:23 <nirik> Perhaps previous things did not, as a big deal(tm) wasn't made of them.
16:41:26 <nirik> anyhow.
16:41:31 <nirik> #topic Stats
16:41:38 <nirik> weekly stats at http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
16:41:43 <nirik> pretty busy week.
16:42:05 <Khaytsus> Nearly 600 users at any given time
16:42:07 <Southern_Gentlem> full moon
16:42:13 <nirik> anyone have anything they would like to shout out about the last week?
16:42:13 <fenrus02> holycrap!  that #1 spot guy needs to do something other than teleconf calls and irc
16:42:26 <nirik> fenrus02: yeah, I know! :)
16:42:40 <nirik> @channelstats #fedora
16:42:42 <fedbot> nirik: On #fedora there have been 1387135 messages, containing 54554796 characters, 9604585 words, 41386 smileys, and 45728 frowns; 21490 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 313957 joins, 29366 parts, 283446 quits, 1006 kicks, 2665 mode changes, and 77 topic changes.  There are currently 569 users and the channel has peaked at 623 users.
16:43:40 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: the nvidia howto on fedorasolved should be all up to date, right? So, we should all use that if we have to point people at nvidia binary only stuff.
16:44:21 <fenrus02> new page, http://fedorasolved.org/Members/fenris02/post_upgrade_cleanup -- comments welcome.  it was written entirely too early in the morning, so feel free to tell me what you think
16:44:25 <nirik> anything else on stats? urls look pretty normal.
16:44:40 <Southern_Gentlem> yep  nvidia howto is up to date
16:45:10 <Khaytsus> Now we just need to make people read it
16:45:17 <nirik> fenrus02: cool. will try and take a look. I wonder if that couldn't be a wiki page on the fedora wiki...
16:45:27 <nirik> linked to the distribution upgrades.
16:45:36 <fenrus02> nirik, i thought about that, but it might be a bit heavy-handed for them
16:46:14 <nirik> yeah, in most cases people shouldn't need to do those things... only if they have jacked up their system somehow.
16:46:35 <fenrus02> fairly normal if they installed from livecd and then upgraded ime
16:46:37 <Khaytsus> nirik: I think it's mainly going to happen on unclean upgrades...  third-party packages, etc
16:47:07 <nirik> yeah.
16:47:13 <nirik> ok, moving along...
16:47:14 <Khaytsus> I know I had a mess when I updated a system here with a few third-party packages on it which caused a python dep an I wound up with a bunch of old packages around
16:47:28 <fenrus02> Khaytsus, rpmfusion does it too
16:47:43 <Khaytsus> Yeah, this was an rpmfusion package, can't recall which offhand
16:48:00 <Khaytsus> Perhaps it wouldn't happen if I enalbed rpmfusion during the upgrade.... dunno
16:48:03 <fenrus02> and livecd's are messed up from day1
16:48:49 <nirik> #topic Fudcon
16:48:56 <nirik> so, this weekend is fudcon.
16:49:14 <nirik> I'm not going to make it, but if enough of you guys are there, there could be a meetup of some kind. ;)
16:49:40 <nirik> There are also #fudcon and #fudcon-room-[1-8] here on freenode to follow along from home.
16:49:50 * thomasj is not there at fudcon
16:49:55 <EvilBob> The only ones I know that are going are damaestro and kanarip
16:50:12 <nirik> ok, fair enough. Just thought I would mention it.
16:50:43 <nirik> #topic Ob Classroom Plug
16:50:43 <EvilBob> well the only ones from "this SIG"
16:50:58 <nirik> I'm going to be doing another class next week... on how to report good bugs.
16:51:13 <fenrus02> oooh, cool
16:51:15 <nirik> Other folks welcome to teach on any topic, and around that time.
16:51:24 * fenrus02 directs fenrus02  to visit https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs_and_feature_requests and pay special attention to the Tips_by_Type_of_Bug section
16:51:29 <fenrus02> nirik, more than that?
16:51:31 <DiscordianUK> I shall look forward to that class
16:51:38 <nirik> as usual: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom has details.
16:51:58 <nirik> fenrus02: going over that kind of thing, but also probibly taking about abrt and such.
16:52:05 * nirik hasn't done up an outline yet.
16:52:11 <Khaytsus> I thought it was how to do *good* bugs
16:52:45 <zodbot> Announcement from my owner (stickster): Fedora Board public IRC meeting in ~10 minutes: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/IRC for details
16:52:53 <fenrus02> nirik, hm.  i dont see any classes for dec on there
16:53:22 <nirik> fenrus02: ? "2009-12-08 02:00 UTC	 How to report bugs to the Fedora Project - Kevin Fenzi"
16:53:37 <nirik> (monday night in north america)
16:53:46 <fenrus02> n/m, scrolled right past it
16:53:51 * fenrus02 facepalms
16:54:02 <nirik> anyhow, more teachers welcome... as I am getting tired of being the only one doing them. ;)
16:54:18 <Southern_Gentlem> geez board meeting followed by a fesco townhall
16:55:21 <nirik> #topic Fedora-Social report - EvilBob
16:55:43 <EvilBob> Social has been getting busier, I think that's a good thing
16:55:45 <EvilBob> http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-social-weekly.html
16:56:02 <EvilBob> as you can see Bacon usage is up but still needs more work
16:56:16 <mock> \o/
16:56:59 <EvilBob> The situation that was covered as the first item of the meeting was the only real "problem" this week. It is hard to keep some off topic.
16:57:16 <EvilBob> That is all I have
16:57:27 <nirik> thanks EvilBob
16:57:36 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:57:42 <thomasj> Another topic. What to do with rogue's op status. He's obviously somehow back in #fedora, but not showing any plan to rejoin us. Someone talked to him?
16:57:42 <nirik> anyone have anything for open floor?
16:58:52 <fenrus02> thomasj, -enoclue ?  what's the issue?
16:58:57 <nirik> thomasj: I have not.
16:59:07 <EvilBob> I would suggest "suspending" it indefinitely
16:59:20 <nirik> yeah, perhaps we should remove him for now, and if we wants it back he can ping us?
16:59:26 <thomasj> +1
16:59:27 <EvilBob> I have talked to him a couple times, things did not seem clear.
16:59:35 <Khaytsus> Someone ask him first maybe...
16:59:45 <thomasj> He shows still the same behavior as before he left. Sadly.
16:59:49 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: +1
16:59:55 <EvilBob> thomasj: Some of
16:59:58 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik +1
17:00:10 <thomasj> EvilBob, yeah, some of
17:00:26 <EvilBob> Next time I talk to him I will ask him directly about it.
17:00:29 * nirik nods.
17:00:45 <EvilBob> Will report to nirik in -ops if there is a solid answer
17:00:52 <nirik> EvilBob: thanks.
17:01:00 <EvilBob> We have always talked a lot anyhow
17:01:20 <thomasj> EvilBob, thanks for taking that.
17:01:32 <EvilBob> Mostly about Khaytsus and Southern_Gentlem...
17:01:35 <EvilBob> ;^)
17:01:39 <thomasj> haha
17:01:57 <fenrus02> gossip column 101: see evilbob + rogue?
17:02:41 <nirik> ok, anything else for open floor?
17:02:52 <Khaytsus> EvilBob: o_O
17:03:00 <EvilBob> I do know the new "sterility" of #fedora does not sit well with him. Some of the users becoming topic enforcers really rubbed him wrong
17:03:40 <EvilBob> Some of this frustration in the community came out with Edgan the other day
17:03:42 <thomasj> Since we're at the topic and he's around, should we ask the one (Discordian) about his will to join us? Or was there already an answer and i missed it?
17:04:10 <Discordian> I am willing to help in any way I can
17:04:10 <thomasj> So we can vote per mail about it.
17:04:49 <EvilBob> I really don't remember the details but he seemed to get his frame jumped on for answering a simple question about VPS hosting when there was not a lot of other stuff going on in the channel
17:04:54 <nirik> Discordian: are you willing to serve as an op? or would you prefer to just help folks without that?
17:04:56 * thomasj hopes he wasn't to far out the window
17:05:16 <Discordian> I'd be happy to serve as an Op
17:06:10 <nirik> Yeah, the rule should be: if there are questions going on, stick to them. If there are not, and it's friendly and not going on and on, just mention that it should stop when questions come up. (IMHO)
17:06:24 <EvilBob> Having an additional "Non-US" op or two can not hurt
17:06:53 <DiscordianUK> I've noted that point nirik
17:06:59 <nirik> DiscordianUK: great. The way it usually works is we vote on it from the pool of existing ops... and let you know as soon as we know. ;)
17:07:02 <thomasj> Yeah, he's from "we have no summer, but warmer rain" ;P
17:07:20 * DiscordianUK chuckles
17:07:20 <mock> lol
17:07:22 <Khaytsus> Bloody old England
17:07:27 <thomasj> indeed
17:07:28 <fenrus02> DiscordianUK, not sure if you've seen this, but it's the whos-says-too-much link: http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:07:31 <EvilBob> If there is a vote of Confidence for DiscordianUK I would like to request he also have ops in -social
17:07:47 <Khaytsus> fenrus02: You're always top of "who says too much" :P
17:07:50 <nirik> so, the thing yestday was just one off topic question and a answer... we should probibly not jump on things like that... just let them pass. (again, IMHO)
17:07:52 <DiscordianUK> I was looking at the stats
17:08:05 <fenrus02> Khaytsus, when AC2 came out, i was not even in the top10
17:08:21 <Khaytsus> fenrus02: real world.... meh ;)
17:08:26 * fenrus02 lol
17:08:29 <Khaytsus> SPeaking of which, mailman came, I gotta get moving
17:08:39 <fenrus02> she's hot?
17:08:43 <thomasj> lol
17:08:43 <Khaytsus> ahem
17:08:50 <thomasj> Khaytsus, have fun ;)
17:08:51 * nirik notes the last few years are also at: http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora.html
17:09:23 * DiscordianUK will look
17:09:46 <nirik> ok, unless someone has something else... will close out the meeting in a minute here.
17:09:58 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: I will be restarting the log for that Jan 1
17:10:11 <thomasj> Sonar_Guy, you dare!
17:10:13 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: and rolling them annually
17:10:25 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: I might have older logs if you want more historical data before that.
17:10:42 <thomasj> Sonar_Guy, dont kill the log where i'm that high ranked ;P
17:10:52 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: that would be awesome
17:10:58 <Sonar_Gal> thomasj, you will just have to start fresh
17:11:00 <Southern_Gentlem> thomasj,  new year new stats
17:11:05 <thomasj> man..
17:11:10 <mock> ha
17:11:38 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone!
17:11:40 <Sonar_Guy> thomasj: I can set it up to parse the older logs too
17:11:50 <thomasj> Sonar_Guy, thank you very much my hero!!
17:12:12 <Sonar_Guy> thomasj: but that page would only be updated once a year lol
17:12:19 <thomasj> lol
17:12:45 <nirik> #endmeeting