05:02:14 <juhp> #startmeeting i18n
05:02:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Dec  8 05:02:14 2009 UTC.  The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:02:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:02:24 <kaio> hi
05:02:41 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2009-12-08
05:02:41 <tagoh> hi
05:02:48 <juhp> hi
05:03:00 <gantu> hi
05:03:47 <paragan> hi
05:04:04 <juhp> ping dychen_ phuang pravins
05:04:10 <pravins> hi
05:04:12 <dychen_> hi
05:04:14 <phuang> hi
05:04:16 <juhp> hi everyone
05:04:35 <kaio> hi
05:04:56 <juhp> this is probably the penultimate meeting of the year
05:05:21 <juhp> tagoh3: we probably should have added something about fonts to the agenda...
05:05:51 <tagoh> juhp: sure
05:06:07 <juhp> anyway I am hoping to change the default font at least for Simplified Chinese to wqy-zenhei in f13
05:06:24 <juhp> assuming we can get the lang fontconfig added
05:06:44 <kaio> juhp☺ agree
05:06:45 <juhp> though shipping two chinese fonts by default seems a bit heavy
05:07:18 <juhp> also finally worked out how to disable the bitmap rendering in chinese fonts ;o)
05:07:48 <juhp> I don't really feel bitmap is very useful on modern displays
05:11:29 <juhp> also some effort going on upstream to clean up the cjk fontconfig (well 65-nonlatin.conf)
05:11:46 <juhp> tagoh: is it possible to get rid of the hardcoded lists?
05:12:05 <juhp> completely?
05:12:26 <juhp> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911
05:12:28 <buggbot> Bug 20911: normal, medium, ---, keithp@keithp.com, NEW, 65-nonlatin should be updated for CJK fonts
05:12:40 <juhp> that's clever
05:13:04 <tagoh> juhp: that should be possible as long as each font packages has the certain rules
05:13:12 <juhp> right
05:13:23 <juhp> which we basically assume anyway I guess
05:13:49 <juhp> well guess it is a matter of time but should be a long term goal I guess
05:13:58 <tagoh> right
05:14:40 <juhp> wow nim-nim has a lot of files ;)
05:15:43 <juhp> why he wants to hardcode them upstream?
05:16:01 <juhp> or just a way for upstream to provide placeholders?
05:16:06 <tagoh> who's _he_?
05:17:01 <juhp> nmailhot
05:17:27 <tagoh> does he? dunno
05:17:42 <juhp> hm
05:18:11 <tagoh> it may be because upstream ships it?
05:18:24 <juhp> tagoh: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911#c78
05:18:26 <buggbot> Bug 20911: normal, medium, ---, keithp@keithp.com, NEW, 65-nonlatin should be updated for CJK fonts
05:18:27 <juhp> yeah maybe
05:19:31 <tagoh> as it's described, it's just a counterproposal to Qiangian Fang's idea.
05:20:51 <juhp> yep
05:20:53 <tagoh> so it may not want to do that if that bug isn't raised? dunno
05:21:06 <juhp> but I think he is saying it should be packaged per font
05:21:18 <tagoh> right
05:21:29 <juhp> but could be in avail.conf ?
05:21:49 <juhp> conf.avail even
05:21:57 <tagoh> aha
05:22:17 <juhp> well that's my take - maybe not...
05:22:28 <tagoh> having the minimum rules in upstream should be sufficient IMHO though
05:22:37 <juhp> anyway guess harmless to ship it in conf.avail
05:22:42 <juhp> right
05:26:37 <juhp> tagoh: but to do with default priorities?
05:26:55 <juhp> can it be handled just by priority number?
05:27:29 <tagoh> when to do?
05:27:46 <juhp> fangq has IPAMona > IPA
05:28:03 <juhp> sorry, what to do with *
05:29:12 <tagoh> hm
05:29:29 <juhp> or how to set default font priorities?
05:29:53 <tagoh> it's a kind of the preference. it's up to the distos policy etc right
05:30:05 <juhp> right
05:30:14 <juhp> so in fedora then?
05:30:37 <tagoh> discuss which's better and preferable? :)
05:32:13 <juhp> so as long as we have lang tests the relative priorities for different langs don't matter, right?
05:33:27 <tagoh> basically - one exception - the priority thing still affects when applications doesn't specifies the lang.
05:33:35 <juhp> I mean XX-%{fontname}.conf
05:33:39 <tagoh> specify
05:33:44 <juhp> right
05:33:51 <juhp> like for wqy still...
05:34:17 <tagoh> and to determine the default font in a language.
05:34:22 <juhp> I posted a patch for wqy-zenhei
05:34:37 <juhp> perhaps I could also help to comaintain it or something
05:34:47 <juhp> tagoh3: yep
05:35:17 <tagoh> otherwise it may be a bug in orth
05:35:37 <juhp> let's try to cleanup things as best we can
05:35:43 <tagoh> yep
05:40:02 <juhp> okay moving on sorry
05:42:09 <juhp> # f10 bugs
05:42:29 <juhp> still some open...
05:44:58 <juhp> tagoh: so don't need to worry about bug 487061?
05:45:00 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=487061 low, low, ---, tagoh, NEW, Japanese fonts changed to less readable after update
05:45:17 <juhp> phuang: you have 3 f10 bugs still
05:46:17 <juhp> hm all scim
05:46:52 <juhp> hm let's move on
05:47:03 <tagoh> juhp: no idea
05:47:20 <juhp> tagoh: is it only vim?
05:47:34 <tagoh> no not really.
05:47:59 <tagoh> vim just has a workaround
05:48:03 <phuang> How to deal those scim bugs?
05:48:25 <juhp> phuang: you tell me? :)  they will autoclose soon...
05:48:47 <juhp> as I tried to say last time: question is move them or close...
05:48:50 <juhp> ?
05:49:22 <juhp> # more bugs
05:49:30 <juhp> anyone have any bugs to discuss?
05:50:39 <juhp> 53 rawhide bugs in NEW,ASSIGNED
05:51:59 <juhp> 33 f11 and 81 f12
05:53:34 <juhp> # f13 features
05:53:57 <juhp> I think yum-langpacks is nearly ready for rawhide
05:54:05 <juhp> thanks to paragan for reviewing
05:54:43 <juhp> right now we're not pushing any other particular f13 features that i know?
05:55:08 <juhp> which is little bit a pity
05:55:17 <juhp> any thoughts?
05:55:41 <pravins> unicode 5.2 we can say
05:55:55 <juhp> pravins: ah yes
05:56:01 <pravins> but there are some issues, need fixes from rendering engine as well
05:56:09 <pravins> and thats why cant comment
05:56:10 <juhp> dunno if we need to make it formal Feature?
05:56:34 <tagoh> when's the deadline for proposal?
05:56:37 <pravins> in fact unicode has also made some wrong decision
05:56:41 <pravins> for malayalam
05:57:01 <pravins> juhp: right, cant make it as a feature
05:57:12 <juhp> ok
05:57:25 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13
05:57:58 <tagoh> aha ok
05:57:58 <pravins> cool, we have some time for thinking 26 Jan is deadline
05:58:07 <juhp> right
05:58:53 <juhp> it is 2 weeks before feature freeze
06:00:53 <juhp> things I wish we were looking at include: font config tool, more kbd/im desktop integration, also desktop virtual keyboard, gdm locale/kbd UI
06:01:25 <juhp> # revamping I18N wikipage
06:01:35 <juhp> finally topic from last time
06:02:17 <juhp> question how and who wants to work on improving https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N and making it more welcoming for contributors
06:02:41 <juhp> it would be good place for tasks lists and wish lists
06:02:45 <juhp> etc
06:02:51 <kaio> I could do.
06:03:58 <juhp> anyway I would like to see a draft first I guess - don't really want a complete whitewash more of a gradual steady improvement and contributions
06:04:09 <kaio> sure
06:04:31 <juhp> I think I will add Tasks and Wishlist now
06:04:37 <kaio> will do during xmas maybe
06:04:41 <kaio> sure
06:04:44 <juhp> ok
06:08:07 <juhp> ok added a few
06:08:30 <juhp> do feel free to add more, edit, add links etc etc
06:08:53 <juhp> it is a good place to track and give visibillity to our work
06:08:56 <kaio> ok
06:09:06 <juhp> to everyone ;)
06:09:14 <juhp> :)
06:09:26 <juhp> so we are over time
06:09:27 <kaio> juhp☺ havent you mentioned about some newsletter?
06:09:36 <juhp> ah FWN
06:09:54 <juhp> yep we^WI talked about it...
06:10:19 <juhp> I haven't had time and noone picked it up that I know
06:10:50 <juhp> added
06:11:16 <juhp> and relnotes
06:11:38 <juhp> # discussion time
06:11:49 <juhp> any other topics now today?
06:13:01 <juhp> next meeting should be 22 Dec
06:14:42 <juhp> ok thanks for attending the meeting today
06:16:34 <juhp> #endmeeting