16:30:24 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG
16:30:24 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 10 16:30:24 2009 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:24 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:33 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
16:30:33 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
16:30:39 <nirik> #topic Init Process
16:30:57 * thomasj 
16:31:50 * EvilBob 
16:33:11 * nirik will wait a minute or two more for folks to wander in.
16:34:48 <nirik> ok, I guess we can go ahead and start in.
16:34:54 <nirik> #topic Weekly Stats
16:35:06 <nirik> http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as always.
16:35:24 <nirik> somewhat busy a week...
16:36:02 <nirik> The links are pretty typical
16:36:15 <nirik> anyone have anything they would like to shout out from the past week?
16:36:56 <EvilBob> Common problem seems to be getting an ISO on USB
16:36:58 <thomasj> Except that it was full moon, nothing ;)
16:37:02 <DiscordianUK> We're still seeing a lot of questions re NVIDIA drivers too
16:37:14 <nirik> yeah on all those. ;(
16:37:39 <nirik> perhaps we should try and whip up a wiki page that explains all the various ways you can install the various isos on usb?
16:37:53 <Khaytsus> I haven't kept up, I hope rmpfusion are still persuing pulling the selinux and initram fs "work" into the process of installing the driver.
16:37:59 <nirik> but many of the problems seemed to be very weird setups.
16:38:11 <EvilBob> I am working on a bash script for the method I used, we can test it out and maybe use it for the ISO to USB problems.
16:38:19 <nirik> EvilBob: excellent.
16:38:25 <Khaytsus> I think most of the time it's inability to read, but I do think we could clean upt he nvidia guide, streamline it.
16:38:38 <Khaytsus> Oh, back to isos :)
16:38:40 <nirik> DiscordianUK: yeah, in previous releases there was nothing needed... just install. Now they have to run commands and such. ;(
16:38:47 <nirik> either or. ;)
16:39:09 <DiscordianUK> Well yes it worked fine for me but .. I read the page
16:39:38 <Khaytsus> The bit about the initramfs is kinda way down the page
16:39:39 <EvilBob> It should not have taken most of a day to get a USB install media set up
16:40:36 <EvilBob> way too much thinking involved and the wiki page is not clear or correct some how.
16:40:47 <Khaytsus> EvilBob: You had some funky flags to figure out though, right?  Not just the mechanism to get the data on the drive?
16:40:48 <DiscordianUK> The other questions I noticed were regarding VirtualBox
16:41:06 <nirik> EvilBob: which wiki page? perhaps we should revamp that.
16:41:09 <EvilBob> I think just in our small group I was given 10 ways to do the job.
16:41:32 <Khaytsus> EvilBob: If 9 didn't catch the place on fire and 1 worked, I say it's Beer:30 time.
16:41:43 <Khaytsus> For those who partake that is
16:41:51 <EvilBob> nirik: I think you had the link
16:42:29 <nirik> yeah. dvd or cd1 = livecd-iso-to-disk, *live* or netboot = dd, *live* = libeusb creator, or livecd-iso-to-disk. unetbootin = fail.
16:43:10 <nirik> DiscordianUK: yeah, I think the issue there is that there is no PAE version available... not sure why. ;(
16:43:45 <DiscordianUK> Yes
16:44:03 <DiscordianUK> and there's a bug in the 64 bit -devel package
16:44:19 <nirik> anyhow... lets try and improve those things and move on. Unless there is anything else further specific to bring up about last week?
16:44:41 <DiscordianUK> Not from me
16:44:48 <nirik> #topic F10, we knew ye well.
16:45:10 <nirik> So, F10 is going end of life here very soon. There is one more updates push today... then it's adios.
16:45:25 <thomasj> Yeah, too bad, F-10 was good
16:45:46 <nirik> so, we need to start pointing f10 at fedora-eol (is that still active?) Anything else we need to change?
16:46:54 <nirik> I guess once the time arrives, changing the topic.
16:47:29 <thomasj> +1
16:47:40 <nirik> ok, moving along .
16:47:48 <nirik> #topic Server move/outages this weekend
16:47:51 <nirik> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-December/msg00007.html
16:48:09 <nirik> (thats the temp one tonight)
16:48:23 * nirik looks for the real one.
16:49:43 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1845 is the ticket.
16:49:50 <nirik> Can't find the announcement yet.
16:50:13 <nirik> so, many things will be done.
16:50:15 <nirik> down.
16:50:23 <DiscordianUK> Hmmm
16:50:25 <EvilBob> K
16:50:32 <nirik> we will need to point folks at the announcement (when made) etc.
16:50:37 <DiscordianUK> Does that include fedoraolved?
16:50:41 <EvilBob> and we don't have a lot of time information, is that correct?
16:50:45 <DiscordianUK> solved
16:50:46 <nirik> I hope mirrormanager isn't down... that will make users unhappy.
16:50:50 <EvilBob> DiscordianUK: no
16:50:53 <nirik> DiscordianUK: no, shouldn't be.
16:51:07 <EvilBob> DiscordianUK: all the fedora unity stuff is not connected
16:51:14 <DiscordianUK> Okay cool
16:51:23 <Southern_Gentlem> DiscordianUK,  fedoraunity stuff is not part on fedoraproject infrastucture
16:51:42 <EvilBob> nirik: we can "host" a copy of an announcement that we can point people to
16:51:48 <nirik> also, as a side note, the kernel list will be down (vger is moving in this move too apparently)
16:52:06 <nirik> EvilBob: cool. Will see if thats needed.
16:52:18 <nirik> we will want to probibly update the topic when the outage starts too...
16:52:27 <EvilBob> +1 topic
16:52:34 <EvilBob> not that they read it
16:52:45 <nirik> true.
16:52:46 <EvilBob> but it gives us on more reason to point them there
16:52:50 <Southern_Gentlem> i thought the move was next weekend
16:52:51 <EvilBob> ;^)
16:52:56 <Southern_Gentlem> starting on the 15th
16:53:07 <nirik> the ticket has dec 12th
16:53:22 <EvilBob> 15th is a Tuesday
16:53:22 <DiscordianUK> The ticker says 12-15th
16:53:26 <DiscordianUK> ticket
16:53:27 <thomasj> They moved it up.
16:53:43 <Southern_Gentlem> ok
16:54:24 <EvilBob> Hopefully it is painless
16:54:45 <nirik> yeah, hope so.
16:54:53 <nirik> #topic Classroom stuff
16:55:05 <nirik> Just thought I would mention I did a class on bug reporting this week:
16:55:19 <nirik> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-classroom/2009-12-08/how-to-file-bugs.2009-12-08-02.00.html
16:55:32 <nirik> teachers always welcome and needed for sessions. ;)
16:55:33 <EvilBob> I forgot about that
16:55:42 <nirik> yeah, so did most people. I got one question. ;)
16:56:03 <DiscordianUK> I'm afraid it was too late for me
16:56:19 <EvilBob> I should teach a class "How to get the goods from zcat and fenris02"
16:56:45 <Southern_Gentlem> EvilBob,  you could teach a class in anything you wanted
16:56:49 <nirik> I think the next one I will do is 'logical problem solving as applied to computer issues'
16:57:00 <Southern_Gentlem> like a class on ham radios and fedora
16:57:07 <nirik> that would be cool. ;)
16:57:18 <DiscordianUK> Both of those would be good
16:57:40 <nirik> anyhow, moving along...
16:57:46 <nirik> #topic Welcome DiscordianUK
16:58:01 <DiscordianUK> Thank you
16:58:07 <nirik> I'd like to welcome DiscordianUK to the ops list. ;) Thanks for helping out in channel and being willing to do ops things. ;)
16:58:31 <thomasj> +1
16:58:35 <DiscordianUK> I'm happy to join you thank yoy
16:58:37 <DiscordianUK> you
16:59:22 <nirik> Glad to have more help. ;)
16:59:30 <nirik> #topic fedora-social report - EvilBob
16:59:39 <nirik> Anything to report from the land of social EvilBob ?
16:59:50 <EvilBob> Nothing major, one ban and a reban
17:00:21 <EvilBob> That is all I know
17:01:07 <nirik> cool.
17:01:11 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
17:01:17 <nirik> ok, anything for open floor?
17:02:37 <mchua> Yes
17:02:45 <mchua> There was talk at FUDCon about having a packaging Classroom
17:02:52 <mchua> ...except more than how we run a normal Classroom.
17:02:55 <mchua> Er, let me find some blog posts.
17:03:08 <nirik> well, we did have one a while back... more are surely welcome.
17:03:30 * nirik is a bit discouraged at how few people are willing to teach. Oh well.
17:03:39 <mchua> Yeah, that's always a tough thing, finding teachers.
17:03:44 <mchua> Anyhoo, the packaging thing started with this:
17:03:46 <mchua> http://iwrotecode.blogspot.com/2009/12/future-fudcon-hackfest-request.html
17:03:56 <mchua> and then Karsten jumped in, http://blog.melchua.com/2009/12/07/zikula-hackfest/#comment-3812
17:04:19 <mchua> and now there's been some talk on "wow, wouldn't it be great to get more web frameworks / cloud stuff packaged?"
17:04:31 <mchua> so this would be - less an individual classroom session, more a... maybe even an entire LEARN TO PACKAGE!!! week.
17:04:43 * mchua rambling about a half-baked idea
17:05:10 <DiscordianUK> So a series of classrooms?
17:05:13 <nirik> sure. we've also talked about doing series.
17:05:17 <mchua> sdziallas has been looking at getting https://launchpad.net/lernid working in Fedora (there are Ubuntu-specific hard-coded bits in it right now)
17:05:27 <nirik> ie, intro first week, then simple stuff, then more, etc.
17:05:30 <mchua> as a potentially richer platform
17:05:33 <mchua> nirik: ooh, yeah.
17:05:38 <mchua> maybe even some Package $foo! sprints
17:05:43 <nirik> mchua: see cwickert. He already packaged it. ;)
17:05:45 <mchua> with the instructor in gobby working on the .spec file
17:05:48 <mchua> oh hey, nice!
17:05:52 <mchua> Hadn't realized that.
17:06:00 <nirik> but it's got a ton of hard coded ubuntu/canononcal things in it
17:06:30 <DiscordianUK> Using gobby sounds good
17:06:35 <EvilBob> RE: Packaging, at the same time the wiki packaging information needs a lot of help.
17:06:53 <cwickert> mchua: but not yet submitted for review and the 0.1 I packaged is not really that usable
17:07:16 <EvilBob> too much redundant information and no clear path on many things.
17:07:19 <nirik> EvilBob: yeah, always true of fast moving info.
17:07:46 * mchua agrees
17:07:47 <nirik> anyhow, feel free to send ideas/discussion on Classroom stuff to the classroom list. ;)
17:07:59 * nirik would welcome some non him posts to that list. ;)
17:08:07 <mchua> Can do. I think Karsten and I want to step up and drive this enough that something's gonna happen, it might be after the New Year though.
17:08:07 <EvilBob> If we are going to take up the task of teaching packaging we need to also take the task of fixing the wiki.
17:08:11 <mchua> EvilBob +1
17:08:25 <mchua> the trouble is that both Karsten and I are packaging n00bs so we can wrangle logistics but we can't fix the wiki or teach or anything like that.
17:08:27 <nirik> mchua: excellent.
17:08:31 <mchua> We want this to happen because we want to be students.
17:08:42 * nirik is willing to help as time permits.
17:08:52 <EvilBob> mchua: You say Karsten, you mean quaid?
17:08:59 <mchua> yeah, quaid
17:09:38 <EvilBob> because karsten in FAS is not the same person, just want to make sure we beat the right person...
17:09:44 <EvilBob> ;^)
17:10:00 <nirik> Also note that some people have more time for fedora over the holidays... since they are off work and can work on the thing they enjoy (fedora).
17:10:05 <nirik> oh, that reminds me.
17:10:10 <nirik> #topic Holidays
17:10:32 <nirik> How many folks are going to be around over the holidays? Will we have ok coverage of the channel?
17:10:50 <Southern_Gentlem> kill the christmas and ny eve meetings
17:10:54 <DiscordianUK> I shall be around
17:11:00 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: good plan. I am for that.
17:11:05 <EvilBob> I don't know yet what my family is planning, I assume I will not be around on the 24th and 25th.
17:11:07 * nirik should be on-line the entire time.
17:11:13 * thomasj will be around for the holidays
17:11:22 <Southern_Gentlem> i will be off work but around the channel
17:11:32 <EvilBob> I know I have to cook on the 25th
17:11:42 <nirik> #info no meetings Dec 24th or 31st.
17:11:52 <nirik> ok, cool.
17:12:10 <nirik> #topic Open Floor (reprise)
17:12:24 <EvilBob> Should we have meetings at other times if they are canceled?
17:12:28 <Southern_Gentlem> the channel will be preety much dead
17:12:42 <nirik> EvilBob: I'd say only if something urgent comes up
17:12:59 <EvilBob> between Christmas and New Years in the past has been pretty busy
17:13:12 <nirik> yeah, people off work and wanting to fix up their home machines.
17:13:19 <DiscordianUK> yeah people get new computers for presents too
17:13:21 <Southern_Gentlem> is the f10eol alias  date oof
17:13:24 <EvilBob> yup yup
17:13:24 <Southern_Gentlem> off
17:13:38 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: it dies today
17:13:40 <nirik> nope.
17:13:45 <nirik> it got moved up.
17:13:51 <EvilBob> Oh?
17:13:53 <Southern_Gentlem> ok i thought it came out of the 17th
17:14:19 <nirik> humm... perhaps I am wrong.
17:14:25 <thomasj> Yeah, i started with the wrong info. Forgot they moved it up, sorry.
17:14:27 <nirik> The final push day changed, but not the eol day.
17:14:42 <EvilBob> so we party tonight
17:14:44 <EvilBob> ?
17:14:56 <thomasj> The final push day is tomorrow AFAIK
17:15:00 <Southern_Gentlem> so it should go eol on the 16th
17:15:01 <thomasj> Dec. 11
17:15:04 <nirik> hum... I guess true eol is still the 17th.
17:15:12 <Southern_Gentlem> 16th
17:15:12 <nirik> final push day is 11th.
17:15:23 <EvilBob> nirik: OK, the the bot has incorrect info
17:15:33 <EvilBob> nirik: it is saying 6 hours
17:15:40 <nirik> yeah, I guess so... yeah, I set it to push day.
17:15:56 * EvilBob takes off his party hat
17:16:09 * thomasj reinstalls F-10
17:16:23 <nirik> Not sure how much support we want to give in 7 days with no updates, but ok.
17:16:29 * nirik is trying to confirm on the wiki.
17:18:00 <EvilBob> Can we wrap this up?
17:18:30 <nirik> EvilBob: yeah, sorry.
17:18:34 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone!
17:18:40 <nirik> #endmeeting