05:07:56 <juhp> #startmeeting i18n
05:07:56 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Dec 22 05:07:56 2009 UTC.  The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:07:56 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:08:02 <juhp> hi everyone
05:08:30 <juhp> sorry for the late starts - was fighting bodhi with unpushing a premature update...
05:08:48 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2009-12-22
05:09:00 <juhp> anyone have agenda to add before we get started?
05:10:56 <paragan> we have got release schedule for F13
05:11:01 <paragan> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule
05:11:02 * juhp slips a few more topic to the agenda list ;)
05:11:05 <juhp> aha
05:11:16 <paragan> as per that "2010-01-26 	 Feature Submission Deadline "
05:11:26 <paragan> Do anyone have any features for F13?
05:12:14 <paragan> This time we have got milestones page also
05:12:15 <juhp> paragan: me - though it is last agenda item currently :)
05:12:18 <paragan> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Important_Release_Milestones
05:12:23 <juhp> though I don't shuffling the order :)
05:12:48 <paragan> ok
05:12:51 <juhp> let's do that first then :)
05:13:10 <juhp> #topic f13
05:13:27 * juhp looks at schedule
05:13:40 <juhp> so it's official now? :)
05:13:48 <paragan> yes
05:14:00 <juhp> but probably little change?
05:14:25 <juhp> I need to update YumLangPacks....
05:14:41 <juhp> I build yum-langpacks in dist-f13 this morning
05:14:57 <juhp> then just started pondering where to put it in comps...
05:15:15 <juhp> should we enable for all users by default?
05:15:35 <juhp> and/or all locales rather?  hmm
05:16:00 <paragan> I think ok for all users and/or locales
05:16:11 <dingyichen> paragan, Not quite sure whether my MakerDialog counts.
05:16:12 <juhp> during the f12 review i was asked about interaction with anaconda, livecd-tools etc
05:16:56 <juhp> dingyichen: right guess it is new but probably won't be an official feature
05:17:09 <dingyichen> juhp: Agree.
05:17:13 <paragan> dingyichen, ok
05:17:23 <juhp> I don't think we have proposed any others this time?
05:18:00 <paragan> from Indic side also we are trying some new locales like Konkani but not sure how much time it will take so no official features
05:18:11 <juhp> (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin)
05:18:22 <juhp> ok sure
05:20:08 <juhp> interesting yum-presto is only installed by default for gnome??
05:21:03 <paragan> I think its because its default package for gnome-desktop group
05:21:26 <paragan> but not added to kde-desktop group
05:26:23 <paragan> I see some discussions going on #fedora-devel for yum-langpacks plugin
05:26:37 <juhp> sorry yeah
05:26:41 <juhp> let go on anyway
05:27:12 <juhp> paragan: indeed but makes completely no sense (other than politics;)
05:27:21 <paragan> yeah
05:28:53 <juhp> I will try to update the feature page soon
05:29:13 <juhp> #topic CJK fonts
05:29:45 <juhp> #action juhp to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin
05:30:04 <juhp> so wqy-zenhei-fonts is now default in rawhide
05:30:44 <juhp> and I added the lang fontconfig (well partially for "zh" at least which may be nonsense but anyway)
05:30:57 <juhp> however still it overrides ja
05:31:07 <juhp> seems we have to drop 65-nonlatin.conf
05:31:24 <juhp> which is great since then we can stop arguing about it upstream!!
05:32:30 <juhp> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911
05:32:31 <buggbot> Bug 20911: normal, medium, ---, keithp@keithp.com, NEW, 65-nonlatin should be updated for CJK fonts
05:33:27 <paragan> ok
05:35:21 <paragan> I really don't understand benefit of having 65-nonlatin.conf
05:35:38 <juhp> indeed
05:35:44 <juhp> me neither :)
05:37:32 <pravins> hmm if we have .conf file with each font, then why to write fontname again in 65-nonlatin.conf
05:39:51 <juhp> <juhp> seems we have to drop 65-nonlatin.conf
05:40:23 <juhp> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911#c88
05:40:26 <buggbot> Bug 20911: normal, medium, ---, keithp@keithp.com, NEW, 65-nonlatin should be updated for CJK fonts
05:40:30 <juhp> I added a comment
05:40:44 * juhp pulls his flameware a bit closer...
05:41:29 <juhp> tagoh3: anything new on your fontconfig cleanup stuff?
05:41:41 <juhp> I read the thread on the list
05:41:55 <juhp> good that we are taking things upstream more
05:42:25 <juhp> tagoh3: dunno if there is any pending changes to the cjk fonts still?
05:42:35 <juhp> anyway
05:42:55 <juhp> I think kaio also did some updates for cjkuni?
05:43:32 <juhp> but not pushed yet I guess
05:43:34 <kaio> juhp☺ which one you referred to?
05:43:46 <juhp> I dunno ;)  yesterday? :)
05:43:57 <paragan> that reminds me should we have some wiki page for fonts. I see we are seeing changes in Fedora for font names/ new font packages and its confusing now what changes are happening.
05:44:09 <kaio> juhp☺ it seems that was the problem from oo.o
05:44:16 <juhp> aha
05:44:35 <juhp> paragan: i18n page you mean?
05:44:38 <kaio> but still not confirmed yet, it is quite bizarre still
05:44:50 <juhp> kaio: what's the problem?
05:44:56 <paragan> juhp, yes for CJK
05:45:01 <paragan> like we have https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Indic#Fonts_list
05:45:03 <juhp> paragan: we do :)
05:45:12 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Fonts
05:45:19 <juhp> now
05:45:20 <kaio> cjk uming on oowriter, when it is 11px the bold doesnt bold
05:45:51 <kaio> I tested w/ both with embeddedbitmap and not
05:45:54 <paragan> but I suppose we have more that one font package for CJK languages
05:45:56 <juhp> using it for our biweekly fonts meeting from now on
05:46:09 <juhp> paragan: true we can add more
05:46:17 <paragan> cool
05:46:17 <juhp> but those are the important ones anyway
05:46:21 <paragan> ok
05:46:43 <juhp> so maybe we need https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Fonts/Chinese etc?
05:47:02 <paragan> if we have some good contents to add there then we should have that :)
05:47:14 <juhp> with links to individual fonts page perhaps
05:47:18 <juhp> yeah
05:47:21 <juhp> dunno ;)
05:47:25 <paragan> that will be also good
05:47:49 <juhp> kaio: hmm - new to f12?
05:47:58 <juhp> bug#?
05:48:24 <kaio> 545824
05:48:29 <juhp> heh
05:48:35 <juhp> bug 545824
05:48:36 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=545824 medium, low, ---, cchance, NEW, Boldface not working with some sizes
05:51:21 <juhp> I see
05:51:24 <juhp> let move on
05:51:26 <juhp> 's
05:51:39 <juhp> # transifex-0.7
05:51:46 <juhp> #topic transifex-0.7
05:52:14 <juhp> I am talking to Fedora Infra about getting the transifex up for public testing soon
05:52:35 <juhp> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1455
05:52:37 <paragan> you mean new version?
05:52:43 <juhp> of course
05:52:48 <juhp> 0.7.3 hopefully
05:52:58 <paragan> aha
05:53:39 <juhp> there should be a test environment setup soon and then I will try to help set it up
05:54:07 <juhp> not too much time left this year but keeping crossed
05:54:10 <nb_> juhp, are you wanting a formal staging environment or just something set up on a publictest machine (like a temporary one)
05:54:40 <juhp> nb_: seems formal one is needed - to be honest don't even understand the distinction :)
05:55:10 <nb_> well staging is more of a permanent test server
05:55:11 <juhp> nb_: I was in some discussion earlier on #fedora-admin
05:55:17 <nb_> publictest is a temporary one usually
05:55:23 <juhp> right
05:55:39 <juhp> I understand the staging needed to be setup
05:55:49 <nb_> oh ok
05:55:51 <juhp> I dunno why publictest is insufficient
05:55:57 <juhp> maybe for the db??
05:56:03 <nb_> is it just to test the new version?
05:56:18 <juhp> test before pushing to production
05:56:33 <nb_> so after the upgrade in production is the testing one still going to be needed?
05:56:51 <juhp> 0.7 has a lot of nice new features (and been out for about 2+ months :-/)
05:57:00 <juhp> probably not - shrug
05:57:23 <nb_> oh, looks like toshio is working on it
05:57:28 <nb_> i'll look at it after the meeting
05:57:40 <juhp> it is the first transifex upgrade I have dabbled in...
05:57:52 <nb_> i dont really know anything about staging, but ive done things on the publictest ones before
05:57:59 <juhp> mostly because I want it to happen...
05:58:03 <juhp> ok
05:58:16 <juhp> well all help is quite welcome :-)
05:58:17 <juhp> thanks
05:58:55 <juhp> I think we talk about kbd/im integration tomorrow
05:58:55 <abadger1999> We might be able to do it on publictest.  stg more colsely mirrors what we have in production so it's better for testing predeployment.
05:59:10 <juhp> aha
05:59:43 <nb_> abadger1999, when we get staging set up, can someone sync the fas database or add me to sysadmin-web on the staging one?  IIRC I could never ssh to app1.stg or proxy1.stg
05:59:55 <nb_> someone said the database might be old or something
06:00:09 * nb_ can try to help juhp with the upgrade
06:00:39 <abadger1999> nb_: Yep.  If you're not able to after it's setup let me know and I'll resync the db.
06:00:42 <juhp> nb_: would appreciate that since I need to learn the ropes a bit probably
06:00:54 <nb_> abadger1999, ok thanks
06:03:17 <juhp> I just wanted to mention http://blogs.gnome.org/sudaltsov/2009/12/21/kbd-stuff-going-threezero/ which whot pointed out to me
06:03:36 <juhp> phuang: ^
06:03:48 <phuang> hi
06:04:06 <juhp> anyway can talk on it in the IM meeting....
06:04:30 <juhp> #topic bugs
06:04:51 <juhp> great, noticed kasumi merge review progressing
06:05:28 <juhp> anyone have any annoying bugs they want to talk about?
06:05:46 <juhp> I have a workarounds for mine ;)
06:06:11 <juhp> disable sound effects in rawhide (stops libcanberra hanging metacity;)
06:06:31 <juhp> and already talked about sudo rm /etc/fonts/conf.d/65-nonlatin.conf ...
06:06:43 <tagoh3> juhp: doh. forgot the meeting - well, no. waiting for anyone who can answer my question on f-f-l ;)
06:07:03 <juhp> ah
06:07:13 <juhp> tagoh3: what was the question again?
06:07:23 <tagoh3> juhp: Latin thing
06:07:33 <juhp> thing?
06:07:46 <tagoh3> coverage
06:08:15 <juhp> ah
06:08:20 <juhp> didn't see that yet
06:09:17 * juhp reading
06:10:27 <juhp> hmm it looks a bit complicated... to me anyway - perhaps we can talk after
06:10:44 <tagoh3> sure
06:10:51 <juhp> sometimes really wish we could just rm conf.d/*.conf ... and start afresh
06:11:50 <juhp> anything else?
06:11:58 <tagoh3> nope
06:16:27 <juhp> okay
06:17:07 <juhp> we meet tomorrow on #fedora-i18n for input-methods
06:17:29 <juhp> next i18n meeting here will be 5th Jan (in fact I will be away)
06:17:40 <juhp> ok thanks for the meeting guys
06:18:33 <juhp> #endmeeting