17:41:35 <franciscod> #startmeeting
17:41:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Jan 30 17:41:35 2010 UTC.  The chair is franciscod. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:41:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:41:49 <franciscod> #chair Subfusc
17:41:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: Subfusc franciscod
17:42:03 <Subfusc> #topic where do we want to go with fedora-tour
17:42:37 <Subfusc> franciscod: so what do you think should be our imediate goals?
17:43:01 <franciscod> Subfusc: 1> backend
17:43:21 <Subfusc> i agree
17:43:31 <franciscod> ie how we are gonna get info from the docs and markting team and parsing
17:43:56 <Subfusc> I was thinking about setting up a skeleton structure so we can fill it in a little by little
17:44:01 <Subfusc> what do you think?
17:44:01 <franciscod> this to put into the parsend
17:44:33 <franciscod> rrix: had set up content descriptors etc.
17:44:40 <Subfusc> yes
17:44:55 <Subfusc> the documents themselfes has to be written in some sort of UML
17:45:03 <franciscod> Subfusc: xml?
17:45:11 <Subfusc> sorry, xml XD
17:45:42 <Subfusc> We should prioritise that, but i think it is more important now to get some kind of structure in our program to se what we have to work with
17:45:54 <Subfusc> so 2> XML definitions ?
17:46:58 <franciscod> hmm..
17:47:26 <franciscod> we havent got a reply from the design team..
17:47:35 <franciscod> so lets leave the front end for the time being?
17:47:40 <franciscod> xml defs..
17:47:52 <franciscod> youre good at planning..
17:47:58 <Subfusc> xml defs is a part of backend, since it is the backend that has to parse it
17:48:03 <franciscod> how do you think we should do the devision?
17:48:08 <franciscod> s/devision/division?
17:48:24 <franciscod> - a main xml for each tour
17:48:34 <franciscod> - an xml for the tour intro
17:48:43 <franciscod> - xmls for subtopics?
17:48:46 <franciscod> ^ ?
17:49:12 <Subfusc> We need a main XML for each tour yeah
17:49:35 <franciscod> #idea main XML for each tour
17:49:49 <Subfusc> and as the deffinition is now the main XML will link to subsequent page files wich will be put inn
17:50:17 <franciscod> elaborate on that a little more? with an example maybe?
17:50:24 <Subfusc> the menues are a bigger problem. It would deffinetly be easier to have a .ini of sort
17:50:48 <Subfusc> (and by that i mean the main menu)
17:50:50 <Subfusc> example:
17:51:01 <franciscod> hmm.. we can have an xml for the main tour menu too..
17:51:13 <franciscod> parse the xml for main tour menu, and set it up ..
17:51:21 <franciscod> can it work that way?
17:52:00 <franciscod> the mockup ive made (which isnt probably final at all) just has menu objects, icons, description..
17:52:33 <Subfusc> <package> <title>eg tour</title> <page><topic>Help</topic><page><topic>IRC</topic><file>irc.html</file></page><page><topic>Web Resources</topic><file>web_resources.html</file></page></page>
17:53:18 <Subfusc> well yes, but we have to have a way to say to the program that it has to load a new tour afterwards
17:53:41 <Subfusc> wich could be done by linking the file to a new tour xml
17:54:35 <franciscod> hmmm and add <node>...</node><node>.. </node> for different nodes of the respective tours to the respective tour files??
17:55:11 <Subfusc> Nodes?
17:55:24 <franciscod> nodes = differnt "pages" of the tours
17:55:43 <Subfusc> Ah, thats what the <page> tag is for
17:55:49 <franciscod> okay..
17:55:53 <franciscod> fits then
17:56:12 <franciscod> Subfusc: lets divide work? easier that way..
17:56:29 <Subfusc> page in page means you have a topic and a page inside a topic (in this example the topic is help and the "subcategories" are IRC and Web)
17:56:48 <franciscod> Subfusc: okay.. roger that..
17:57:30 <Subfusc> franciscod: let me just bring up the uml
17:57:36 <franciscod> Subfusc: coudl you do the xml skeleton? you seem to have it figured out.. :)
17:58:06 <franciscod> i could code a parser in the mean time?
17:58:18 <Subfusc> #link http://tinyurl.com/ylmpjyo
17:58:53 <Subfusc> franciscod: the Page xml parser isnt that important right now
17:59:04 <Subfusc> we need the tour and menu objects first
17:59:21 <franciscod> lets discuss xml skeleton requirements for them two then? we can write them point by point and log it up?
17:59:38 <Subfusc> sounds like a good idea
18:00:14 <Subfusc> since you seem to be the most fond of gui programming, i would suggest you take the menu object
18:00:30 <franciscod> set topic to "XML for tour"? menu after that?
18:01:04 <Subfusc> k
18:01:08 <franciscod> #topic requirements for XML for tour object
18:01:13 <franciscod> Subfusc: go :)
18:01:52 <Subfusc> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-tour/browser/docs/BACKEND
18:02:04 <Subfusc> There is a lot defined in the backend doc allready
18:03:02 <Subfusc> what i dont agree on is that we should have to parse x package files to make the menu
18:03:16 <Subfusc> as a tour object file the previous deffinitions are fine
18:03:32 <franciscod> i need to confirm.. the tour object is going to form the main menu where they select what tour they want?
18:03:40 * franciscod is a little confused :|
18:03:54 <Subfusc> yes
18:04:07 <Subfusc> Eg: if you select newbie tour in the splash
18:04:13 <Subfusc> at Tour Object will be created
18:04:37 <Subfusc> if you select detailed tour you get a Menu Object, wich should when done return a TourObject to main
18:04:49 <Subfusc> Wich is where the main part of the tour should be
18:05:26 <franciscod> hmm.. IIRC, i had changed the splash to have only a "tour menu" button.. so newbie tour would the first option of the tour menu..
18:05:28 <Subfusc> The tourobject should only hold data for menues and where to find files, it doesnt do any rendering
18:05:50 <franciscod> ill reverse that and add the newbie and detailed tour list buttons back
18:06:24 <Subfusc> I think we should have 4 options in the splash
18:06:43 <Subfusc> Quit, Whats new, Newbie Tour and Detailed tour
18:07:19 <Subfusc> or Quit, NewbieTour and Detailed tour
18:07:32 <Subfusc> (names are arguable)
18:07:56 <franciscod> Subfusc: waht do yu have in mind for the detailed tours? ie once theyve selected say GNome tour from the detailed tour menu?
18:08:56 <Subfusc> franciscod: the content part isnt my strong point, that should have been rrix's department. But i would guess it is a collection of help documentation for people New to Gnome
18:09:22 <Subfusc> FYI the newbie tour should just give baisics and redirect the user back to the program if they need more helt
18:09:25 <Subfusc> *help
18:09:33 <franciscod> Subfusc: i mean, how wil the interface of the detailed tour differ from that of the newbie tour?
18:09:51 <Subfusc> franciscod: only in content first time around
18:10:18 <Subfusc> idealy the newbie guid should have less options and details more
18:10:39 <franciscod> Subfusc: okay.. i was thinking of removing "newbie tour" from the splash and adding it as option 1 of the tours menu..
18:10:44 <franciscod> - beginner tour
18:10:47 <franciscod> - KDE tour
18:10:51 <franciscod> - GNOME tour
18:10:52 <franciscod> ....
18:10:56 <franciscod> ^^
18:11:31 <Subfusc> franciscod: What do we need the splash for if there are no options? =P
18:11:48 <Subfusc> just "take a tour" and "quit" ?
18:11:58 <franciscod> Subfusc: yeah.. basically..
18:12:07 <franciscod> and "disable on login"
18:12:09 <franciscod> ;)
18:12:12 <franciscod> the checkbox..
18:12:20 <Subfusc> shouldnt that be in firstboot?
18:12:39 <franciscod> Subfusc: first boot gives you "enable tour on login"
18:12:54 <franciscod> but then you have the option of disabling it.. otherwise itll come up everytime you login..
18:13:08 <Subfusc> Shouldnt it do that automaticaly
18:13:22 <franciscod> Subfusc: you mean only come up on first login?
18:13:33 <franciscod> and then sit quietly in the app menu?
18:13:33 <Subfusc> I mean, if they have loged in once, they probably wont have it poping up again, and if they do, they can start it from the menu
18:13:39 <Subfusc> yeah
18:13:44 <franciscod> Subfusc: yeah..could be done..
18:13:56 <Subfusc> and as a part of newbie tour it should show where it is in case they need more help
18:14:23 <Subfusc> and a warning dialog or popup dialog if they just quit it where to find it
18:14:31 <franciscod> Subfusc: we could just add that statement if the user doenst select it at firstboot.. a msg saying, you can access it here..
18:14:44 <franciscod> + the dialog on quit
18:15:04 <franciscod> should be ample
18:15:07 <Subfusc> if it is deselected at firstboot i think we should let it be
18:15:20 <Subfusc> that is if the option is selected by default
18:15:25 <franciscod> er.. thing is administrator does the installing..
18:15:34 <franciscod> he might unselect it..
18:15:43 <franciscod> but a noob user on the system might need it..
18:15:49 <Subfusc> yes, but that would be his problem
18:16:05 <Subfusc> We cant make it moron proof IMHO
18:16:23 <franciscod> our main audience is noobs, we can try and make it more accessible :)
18:16:32 <franciscod> moron proof cannot be done.. heh
18:17:15 <franciscod> splash is basically a show item.. so the user can decide there and then if they want it or no..
18:17:19 <franciscod> thats it..
18:17:28 <franciscod> ive hardly ever seen a splash with functionality..
18:17:33 <franciscod> more of an announcer..
18:17:36 <Subfusc> yes, but if the admin doesnt want the program at all, we shouldnt force it on them
18:17:43 <Subfusc> we got to expect the admin to know better
18:18:10 <Subfusc> unless we wanna go Ubuntu
18:18:20 <franciscod> Subfusc: oky.. so if he unselects it at firstboot, a simple msg saying "access it here later if you want to"
18:18:37 <franciscod> taht shouldnt be much of a headache? no dialog nothing..
18:18:52 <franciscod> select or dont and see it here later ?
18:19:20 <Subfusc> well if you insist. Personaly i dont think we should do anything if the admin unselects it
18:19:28 <Subfusc> we could discuss it with the firstboot people too
18:19:48 <franciscod> #task discuss firstboot and unselecting behavior
18:19:57 <franciscod> #task franciscod Subfusc discuss firstboot and unselecting behavior
18:20:17 <franciscod> lets get back to the XML format? you doing it?
18:20:47 <Subfusc> i can, but i think we should do that at a later time when we have written more of the backend to map our needs
18:21:20 <franciscod> Subfusc: err..how you gonna write the backend if youre not sure of what content to parse?
18:22:02 <Subfusc> the spesific XML we are talking about now is the one relating to Textrenderer in the Backend/GUI department
18:22:20 <Subfusc> it will have to grow as the sofistication of the program grows
18:22:43 <franciscod> okay..
18:22:52 <Subfusc> but it will probably start out as ordinary HTML with limited tag support
18:23:14 <franciscod> what do you want me to do :) ? i like this method better :P
18:23:30 <Subfusc> like <h1>Web Resources</h1> <p> Paragraph</p>
18:24:08 <Subfusc> franciscod: since you have concrete ideas about how you want the gui, i suggest you start writing the MenuObject Class
18:24:18 <franciscod> Subfusc: aye..
18:24:27 <franciscod> #task franciscod write menu object class
18:24:40 <Subfusc> I will write the Tour Object Class mostly
18:24:56 <Subfusc> and then we have to have another meeting about gui
18:24:58 <Subfusc> Sounds good?
18:24:58 <franciscod> #task Subfusc write tour object class
18:25:01 <franciscod> Subfusc: yup..
18:25:07 <Subfusc> end meeting?
18:25:09 <franciscod> meet in a week?
18:25:12 <franciscod> next one?
18:25:13 <Subfusc> yupp
18:25:16 <franciscod> okay..
18:25:20 <franciscod> #endmeeting