00:03:01 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:03:02 Meeting started Thu Feb 4 00:03:01 2010 UTC. The chair is sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:03:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:03:10 #topic Roll Call 00:03:13 * sparks 00:03:16 * stickster 00:03:39 * jjmcd . 00:03:55 * shaunm 00:05:27 sparks: I think that's it, shall we proceed? 00:06:01 * sparks was hoping others might show up 00:06:20 Where's that quaid guy? :-D 00:06:23 #chair jjmcd 00:06:23 Current chairs: jjmcd sparks 00:06:31 #topic Desktop Help Summit 00:06:39 #link http://live.gnome.org/DesktopHelpSummit2010 00:07:06 jjmcd: Did you get funding squared away for you to attend the Summit? 00:07:07 * stickster is happy jjmcd will be there to represent 00:07:32 Sparks - still haven't totally nailed all the details but I will be there 00:07:45 I've got nothing to add. 00:07:51 shaunm: Thank you 00:07:52 jjmcd: shaunm: Will there be a "live/remote" component so others can participate from afar? 00:07:52 I assume you are still no? 00:08:11 there are two locals who have offered up accommodations at their place, by the way 00:08:12 jjmcd: At this time. Still working with the boss on if I can rule out a few projects. 00:08:27 stickster, I have no sudh capability 00:08:41 work is the curse of the drinking class 00:08:41 stickster: an Ubuntu person asked that as well. I think it would be neat, but I'm not sure I know how to go about setting it up 00:08:57 shaunm: One way to do it is the way we do FUDCon Live. 00:09:14 shaunm: You could have one person in each hour/timeslice of the conference transcribe to an IRC channel. 00:09:32 Fedora Talk? 00:09:42 shaunm: Alternatively, or in addition, you can use a VoIP dialin so people can listen in on proceedings 00:09:42 * quaid has shown up 00:09:49 If we have wifi I can certainly help with the IRC stuff, but I have no IP phone or stuff like that 00:10:00 jjmcd: I can send you one 00:10:06 jjmcd: You don't need a special IP phone... you can dial in from a normal phone too 00:10:21 shaunm: There is a local dial in for Chicago: http://talk.fedoraproject.org/ 00:10:38 hmmm, so if shaunm could score us one of those conference phones we could just dial 2008 00:10:43 jjmcd: Exactly. 00:11:05 shaunm: Does that strike you as easy enough to pull off? 00:11:40 I'll check with Kevin to see if there's anything there we can use. 00:11:48 that would be great 00:11:54 it would be 00:12:00 shaunm: Even a cell phone would suffice, I'm sure you'll have some of those around :-) 00:12:02 are there limits on who could dial in? 00:12:08 shaunm: Not really 00:12:25 The codec is pretty tight, unless more than a couple dozen people dialed in it should work OK 00:12:30 Fedorians would have access via VoIP... others could just dial in, correct? 00:12:42 shaunm and there are more numbers than just chicago 00:12:42 yes, which would limit the voip draw 00:12:46 sparks: Right 00:12:55 sparks: shaunm: And there's a streaming connection too I believe. 00:13:03 Ooo 00:13:04 ok, I'm just wondering if it's ok for non-fedora people to use this as well 00:13:10 #link http://talk.fedoraproject.org/ 00:13:29 Sure 00:13:31 shaunm: Should be fine 00:13:45 shaunm Fedorans get a voip connection, but others can just dial one of 4 or 5 numbers 00:14:18 * sparks needs to get his VoIP problems figured out. 00:14:23 It's a GNOME event, we <3 GNOME... no problem. QED. :-) 00:14:32 :-) 00:14:46 I wonder if I could figure out a simple way to stream video as well 00:14:57 ustream.tv or something similar? 00:15:06 or icecast.fedoraproject.org 00:15:24 Wouldn't surprise me if the uni had a server 00:15:24 shaunm: We worked on a fully free software solution last weekend. It's not done, but we're a couple steps closer. 00:15:44 nice 00:15:54 It's just a matter of a little more developer time 00:16:01 I'd have to think about hardware. I suppose I could just use a webcam 00:16:10 shaunm: https://fedorahosted.org/freeseer/ 00:16:17 I wonder if my camcorder can be made to work for streaming 00:16:31 shaunm: That software I just URL'd is meant to do that 00:16:38 awesome 00:16:42 via firewire, v4l, v4l2 00:17:02 * stickster doesn't want to gum up docs meeting with technical weeds, ask me about it later if interested 00:17:03 I have fun stuff to distract me from contracts tomorrow. 00:17:17 sure 00:17:30 shaunm: That code needs love, btw... but opening it up was the first step ;-) 00:17:42 * stickster yields floor for any other Desktop Help Summit stuff 00:17:59 Okay, anything else? 00:18:33 Okay... moving on 00:18:42 #topic Release Notes 00:18:55 jjmcd: Anything new? 00:19:02 * jjmcd was totally consumed with NTS stuff this week so nothing to report 00:19:17 Okay. 00:19:40 #topic New Guides 00:19:52 Anyone have any new guides they want to talk about? 00:20:34 #topic Guide Status 00:20:54 Anyone know what the status of the new Transifex? 00:21:10 sparks: There is an infrastructure ticket 00:21:15 Hang on and I'll dig up the link 00:21:21 Also, I want to back up to release notes for a second. 00:21:22 thanks 00:21:27 Ok 00:21:39 You guys are kind of breezing through the agenda, but I don't see any note on where we are in the schedule 00:21:45 http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-docs-tasks.html 00:21:47 That reminds me 00:22:00 THat shows 3 weeks until Release Notes start getting prepared for Alpha, the first of two test releases before final. 00:22:03 I need to remind guide owners once again about the schedule sign up 00:22:30 sparks: Can you topic back to Release Notes to capture this piece? 00:22:45 #topic Release Notes 00:22:50 Cool, thanks 00:23:03 #info Release Notes for F13 Alpha start production in 3 weeks (2010-02-23) 00:23:24 What are we planning to produce for the Alpha? 00:23:35 One pager 00:23:50 wIf I recall, working with marketing like last time 00:24:14 OK, and content for that will come from devs and contributors directly, with Docs editing? 00:24:32 Mostly stolen from feature pages I imagine 00:24:52 jjmcd: OK, then I think it would be a good idea to clarify that schedule with the right tasks and dates 00:25:11 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_F13_schedule 00:25:11 This is what John Poelstra was asking for earlier and maybe it was unclear what he was looking for 00:25:29 poelcat just wants to make sure that schedule reflects what the Docs team is really doing 00:25:33 We can/should flesh that out a little 00:25:40 jjmcd: Let's do it now, then. 00:25:55 What tasks make up the Alpha release notes production? 00:26:07 stickster, we have asked all parties to sign up for/comment on, F13 tasks on the url I just pasted 00:26:17 relnotes is at the bottom 00:26:18 Did I miss one? 00:26:24 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_F13_schedule 00:26:29 Nuts, didn't see my buffer, thanks jjmcd 00:27:07 Wow, jjmcd, so that's complete for Release notes then? 00:27:12 cool 00:27:36 Well, I gave poor John a tough time over that 00:28:03 Was that a yes, or a no? 00:28:06 But I think we are close to right this time 00:28:08 Yeah 00:28:17 Cool 00:28:31 I need to buy into it because its basically my schedule after a zillion rounds with poelcat 00:28:52 jjmcd: Is there a pre-Feb 23 task for letting people know what we are expecting from them (marketing, general community, etc.)? 00:29:16 There are several like that, dunno about pre-23rd tho 00:29:54 We were pretty lightweight on alpha because last time marketing mosly led 00:30:06 sheesh the typing tonight 00:30:24 jjmcd: OK, maybe a task to send marketing a heads up then? 00:30:42 Yeah, and also to devs for being sure feature pages are updated 00:30:53 I'll add a ping on my to-do for the 11th 00:30:58 that will give 2 weeks 00:31:10 jjmcd: OK, write that in and I'll ping poelcat to update his schedule appropriately 00:31:35 The task is either email someone, or show up at a meeting 00:31:59 Marketing meets on Tuesdays 3:00pm EST (2000 UTC) if that helps 00:34:00 Anything else? 00:34:18 not here, thanks sparks 00:34:23 thanks jjmcd 00:34:32 How will the Transifex delay affect the Release Notes? 00:35:25 That is a problem 00:35:49 yes 00:36:31 is that delayed ue to lack of hands to do the upgrade work? 00:36:36 sparks: Might want to #topic back, now that I finished my digression :-D 00:36:39 * stickster looks for link 00:36:53 WHat is the status there? I have been assuming glezos would be ready 00:37:05 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1455 00:37:11 quaid: I don't know/think so 00:37:55 jjmcd: sparks: You guys need the new Tx 0.7+ to work with Publican production smoothly, right? 00:38:02 Correct 00:38:11 And we made schedule assumptions 00:38:12 I see sparks in cc: on that ticket 00:38:28 It's about 80% of the way there :-/ It's up to the testing stage, but there's one glitch with the staging setup preventing testing at the moment. I haven't had any luck chasing that down though :-( 00:38:28 Reworked a lot of what we were doing based on 0.7 00:38:47 ricky: Hi there! 00:39:03 ricky: Is that the piece in comment 43? 00:39:10 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1455#comment:43 00:39:34 sparks: You might want to comment in that ticket that this is critical for F13 guides/release notes 00:39:38 ok 00:39:57 +1 00:40:08 Well, I actually know the cause for the issue in comment 43. It's the problem in comment 38 that we're having issues with 00:40:35 I'll be able to debug this further after tonight, so hopefully it'll be ready for testing soon this week 00:40:47 ricky: Thanks for looking into that for us 00:40:52 #action sparks to add comment explaining the need for the Transifex 0.7 00:41:02 ricky: Thanks! 00:41:56 Okay, anything else? 00:42:37 nope, other than that sparks, you might want to explicitly ask if it should raised to 'critical' in the Trac 00:42:55 ok 00:43:01 * stickster doesn't know the criteria that infrastructure uses for that, probably just "a lot of people really need it yesterday" :-) 00:43:11 Setting it to critical as is is fine 00:43:20 ricky: OK, thanks! 00:43:22 Or blocker if it's blocking something :-) 00:44:08 Okay... moving back to Guides... 00:44:19 #topic Guide status 00:44:20 on Mar 11 it is a blocker 00:44:35 So everyone is waiting on the Transifex upgrade. 00:45:11 Guides are supposed to be sending POTs to tfx already 00:45:13 Does anyone have any concerns about their guide? 00:45:18 Yes. 00:46:17 But that was also a proactive submission. So it's not at a critial status, yet. 00:47:18 rudi: What's going on on your guides? 00:47:29 rudi: Have you heard anything from radsy? 00:48:46 ricky: It sounds like it might end up blocking release notes production if we're unlucky... 00:48:46 I suppose we could work around the l10n issues but it would be painful, yet again 00:48:46 * stickster doesn't want jjmcd to have to go through that 00:48:48 00:48:52 * stickster hums Jeopardy theme :-) 00:49:22 Well... I don't have anything. 00:49:23 stickster, we also have a boatload of guides to deal with this time 00:49:35 jjmcd: There's quite a lot of them 00:49:44 As soon as we get Transifex up we'll want all guides to start pushing POTs. 00:49:54 But you know, rudi sprinkles his magic pixie dust and the problems go away 00:50:04 jjmcd: So really, the owners of those docs *need* Tx 0.7, because we can't expect every owner to work around the l10n tooling 00:50:11 Exactly 00:50:31 yes 00:51:05 Okay... 00:51:15 Do all of those docs have specific owners? Just curiosu 00:51:17 *curious 00:51:22 kinda 00:51:28 kinda specific? ;-) 00:51:32 I think we can point to someone for each guide, yes. 00:51:35 "somewhat pregnant" 00:51:37 :-D 00:51:57 OK, fair enough -- just wondering how many people were going to be rolled up in that Tx blocker. 00:52:03 But most fall to just a few people :-( 00:52:08 yes 00:52:31 We wanted to get the POT files uploaded early so l10n would have more time to do the work. 00:52:40 Yup 00:53:18 Okay... lets talk tickets 00:53:22 err... bugs 00:53:28 #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:53:28 So do you guys want to set up some sort of "point of no return" date for Fedora's Tx 0.7? in collaboration with the L10n folks 00:53:35 oops, wasn't finished 00:53:50 stickster: What else you got? 00:54:02 sparks: I think it's important that we know exactly when is too late for Tx 0.7 from y'all's perspective 00:54:07 And that Infrastructure know too 00:54:17 If we pass that date, is there any other alternative? 00:54:32 Do we have the ability to use transifex.org in the meantime, or something else? 00:54:49 Ummm.... I think we had a solution for F12 but it was painful. 00:55:09 sparks: It was. 00:55:34 sparks: Was my question hazy? 00:55:47 Not sure if I wrote it badly. 00:56:16 You guys know that translate.fedoraproject.org is our hosted instance of Tx, right? 00:56:17 I was waiting for jjmcd to chime in... He was the "designer" of the solution. 00:56:24 yes 00:56:37 Well, I think in all cases, jjmcd used translate.fedoraproject.org -- correct? 00:56:37 We need to re-do the sked with L10N if we don't have it 00:56:44 jjmcd: don't have it by when? 00:56:51 mar 11 00:56:54 OK 00:57:08 jjmcd: And you used translate.fp.o for everything last time, along with ugly hacky workarounds, right? 00:57:18 We made some sweeping assumptions in that schedule. Yes 00:57:38 jjmcd: OK, thanks 00:57:40 Once it was scripted the main issue was the elapsed time 00:57:59 Takes a few minutes to build RNs, a few hours to merge the po's 00:58:32 So, what I'm asking is, in the case that ricky and the other Infrastructure genii (I mean that most sincerely) can't get Tx 0.7+ working in our infrastructure by that date, do we have any alternatives other than ugly hacky workarounds? 00:58:38 Are there any worth considering? 00:58:55 I don't think we have a different workaround 00:59:20 What about using transifex.net for one release? 00:59:27 Is that a possibility? I see they're running Tx 0.8.0devel. 00:59:43 There may be some things we can do to ease the pain, but as I said, we made sweeping assumptions in the schedule which need to be revisited 01:00:04 I guess that is more of a question for glezos 01:00:18 jjmcd: OK, have one of you guys asked glezos about it? 01:00:32 No, I haven't spoken with him in a while 01:00:38 I don't know the capabilities of Transifex so I can't answer the question about usng transifex.net. 01:00:45 Mostly third hand 01:01:02 sparks: Transifex just gives people a way to check out POT files and send up PO files, without you having to give everyone individual access to your guides and notes. 01:01:14 It does the same things on transifex.net as it does at translate.fp.o 01:01:15 yes 01:01:29 I don't know about the versions, though 01:01:39 did 0.8 break something else? 01:01:42 don't know 01:01:44 The question would be, if we did something on the tx.net 0.8.0, would it be portable back to translate.fp.o 0.7 01:02:14 that too 01:02:41 OK, if no one wants to take on the task of asking glezos about it, I will 01:02:48 sparks: #action me baby 01:03:15 #action stickster to talk to glezos about transifex and to report back ASAP! :) 01:04:36 jjmcd: Anything else? 01:04:46 nope 01:05:02 stickster: ? 01:05:50 nada 01:06:00 Okay 01:06:05 BZ Tickets... 01:06:18 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora%20Documentation&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED 01:06:56 Last week I went through and tried to assign tickets where I thought I could 01:07:51 So please login and see what we can take 01:07:54 you can take 01:08:05 there are 109 outstanding tickets 01:08:42 sparks: Hey, I think I actually closed or reassigned some of mine properly in a recent bug binge 01:08:43 #topic All other topics 01:08:54 stickster: Excellent! 01:09:27 sparks: Is there any thought given to a bug sprint day? 01:09:28 Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss? 01:09:39 stickster: I haven't. 01:09:45 sparks: You should! :-) 01:10:04 It's worked well for some other collateral groups... marketing does this, mchua rocketh the issue list. 01:10:09 Not sure we have enough people to jump in. We haven't been able to get everyone together at the same time in a while. 01:10:32 And there are a surprising number of names on those bugs 01:10:36 sparks: I can commit to helping 01:10:42 quaid: How about you, any chance? 01:11:08 sparks: If you can pick a weekend day, that might work best, esp. since everyone's got $DAYJOB concerns 01:11:20 ya 01:11:24 sparks: Why don't you bring it up on the list and see who nibbles 01:11:27 I would jump in 01:11:31 if I can meet the time :) 01:11:35 sprints are the bomb 01:11:36 #action sparks to setup a bug tackle day for Docs 01:12:04 * stickster is going to have a hard stop in about 4 min, just for info in case he disappears 01:12:19 Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss? 01:12:49 * stickster is mum 01:14:19 Okay, thanks everyone for coming out! 01:14:24 #endmeeting