02:00:45 #startmeeting 02:00:45 Meeting started Wed Mar 3 02:00:45 2010 UTC. The chair is StabbyMc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 02:00:46 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 02:00:57 .fas makfinsky 02:00:58 makfinsky: makfinsky '' 02:01:02 .fas dnhodgson 02:01:03 dnhodgson: dnhodgson 'Darcy Hodgson' 02:01:04 .fas threethirty 02:01:07 threethirty: threethirty 'Justin O'Brien' 02:01:08 .fas cwtucker 02:01:09 .fas herlo 02:01:10 jetrigger: cwtucker 'Chris W Tucker' 02:01:11 .fas smcbrien 02:01:12 .fas mspevack 02:01:14 .fas laubersm 02:01:15 herlo: herlo 'Clint Savage' 02:01:20 StabbyMc: smcbrien '' 02:01:25 spevack: mspevack 'Max Spevack' 02:01:30 laubersm: laubersm 'Susan Lauber' 02:01:48 .fas Arsenick 02:01:49 Arsenick: arsenick 'René Jr Purcell' 02:02:10 Hmm, decent turnout so far. 02:02:24 #topic North America Meeting - Announcements 02:02:34 Anyone got announcements? 02:03:24 #topic North American Meeting - Events 02:03:34 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents 02:03:54 There are a few upcoming events soon. Anyone need things they don't already have? 02:04:15 StabbyMc: that can tie into the budget conversation at some point in this meeting. 02:04:28 spevack: that's next. 02:04:50 #topic North American Meeting - Budget Review 02:04:52 * herlo has a list of SWAG for events that we need to obtain 02:04:59 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Budget 02:05:15 #topic North American Meeting - Budget Review.FAmSCo Budget for FY11 Q1 02:05:22 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_budget 02:05:30 spevack: want to take the show? 02:05:39 yeah. 02:06:00 We just kicked off a new quarter (and a new fiscal year). 02:06:31 Our budget planning has been cyclical, usually based on whether I have "enough time" or "not enough time" to worry about budget compared to other things. 02:06:38 I want to make sure we get really off to a good start 02:06:51 this year, worldwide. So I want to try to spend every penny of our budget, but do it in a SMART way. 02:07:09 we've got an invoice to pay for vinyl stickers. 02:07:26 And aside from that our our usual shipping, we don't have much queued up in NA for this quarter. 02:07:40 but I figure that I want to spend about $7k, not counting any FADs 02:07:50 spevack: we've got tees somewhere in the works. 02:07:58 * spevack adds those things to the page 02:07:59 * herlo has quite a list of items we need 02:08:21 herlo: where is that list? 02:08:22 Buttons, pens, tattoos and of course, the new plan for stickers 02:08:28 spevack: ^^ right ther e:) 02:08:36 heh 02:08:48 Texas Linusfest sponsorship and media 02:08:52 I can put $$ amounts on them but I think others did the legwork the first time 02:08:57 I have tons of tattoos, many thousands 02:09:00 so the vinly stickers are getting paid by me via Paypal. 02:09:05 herlo: I can get the #s on pens, no problem. 02:09:08 who owns other stuff, logistically? 02:09:27 spevack: vinyl stickers (aka case badges)?? 02:09:29 Brian has most of the pens, I have no idea how many remain 02:09:39 I probably have a few hundred pens too 02:09:40 * herlo isn't interested in that, we have tons of those... 02:09:48 herlo: nope, different. like those clear sticky things you put on your car window that peel off, i think :) 02:10:00 clings 02:10:10 I have tattoos and a handful of install media. 02:10:11 spevack: oh, I want sticker pads like the rh guys have at their booth every time 02:10:15 Ok, I have a box of clings but haven't spent any time at home to ship them. 02:10:17 so we're ok on pens and tattoos 02:10:19 and I'm willing to put up the work to do it 02:10:23 herlo: say what? 02:10:25 Plus once the sticker invoice gets paid, I'll have those to send too. 02:10:26 herlo: pixplz :) 02:10:35 spevack: hang on, I'll get em 02:11:18 StabbyMc: i'm doing the sticker payment *right now* 02:11:20 I don't know we are good on pens but I suspect we are ok 02:11:32 spevack: appreciated. 02:11:43 #link http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=139 02:11:46 spevack: ^^ 02:12:14 similar to those... 02:12:30 didn't StabbyMc just get a bunch of the larger sticker made? 02:12:31 the big pages of stickers really don't work all that well. I like these because they are easy to hand out 02:12:43 herlo: http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=37_52 02:12:47 Like these ^ 02:12:55 StabbyMc: no 02:13:10 that is a lousy picture 02:13:12 StabbyMc: those *with* the freedom, friends, features, first on there too 02:13:14 StabbyMc: paid :) 02:13:38 herlo: the stickers ordered are like these: http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=37_52 02:13:54 herlo: you want the ones with the 6 case badge style little stickers? 02:13:57 anyway, sounds like it might already be in place... 02:14:14 herlo: we got 3000 sticker for $750 including shipping. 02:14:25 inode0: yes, but similar to the original ones mizmo did 02:14:40 StabbyMc: it's all good, I'll do it on the next batch then :) 02:14:43 right, these are 3" logo stickers 02:15:03 there was just discussion at SCaLE that it would be nice to have ones like I suggested above :) 02:15:07 we figured since we actually have case badges we'd just get more larger stickers 02:15:11 * herlo also owns media 02:15:24 and I read that there is a desire to have DVDs only? 02:15:27 StabbyMc: ^^ 02:16:01 * spevack created https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_production to try to be a central point of sanity and organization 02:16:06 patches welcome :) 02:16:17 spevack: right-o 02:16:21 StabbyMc, those stickers are nice, how it work if we want some for canada ? 02:16:33 herlo: Yeah, that's the next topic. 02:16:53 StabbyMc: oh, sorry 02:17:04 Arsenick: isn't djf_jeff your regional ambassador? 02:17:15 while still on this topic ... my short list is buttons, sponsorship of TLF & LFNW 02:17:21 yup, I should check with him ? 02:17:38 Arsenick: I'll be sending a bunch to him for distribution to you. 02:17:42 I have one "general" budget item to share as well, at the end. 02:17:45 just an FYI 02:17:45 ho nice, Thanks 02:18:03 screenprinted table skirts or sheets for booths? 02:18:08 more banners? 02:18:16 VileGent: ^^^ 02:18:58 inode0: TLF & LFNW should be simple. Do you have recommendations in terms of sponsorship amounts? 02:19:14 spevack: quick math suggests t-shirts + media + TLF/LFNW is our budget 02:19:55 inode0: probably about right, yes 02:20:10 buttons and such are pretty cheap though, and usually get fit in when we under-spend in other regions 02:20:21 so it's nice to have quick things like that that we can just pull the trigger on 02:20:29 but we should handle big ticket stuff first. 02:20:31 tshirts, for sure 02:20:35 and the F13 media plan 02:20:42 agree, I think we should have a list and just prioritize it 02:21:01 let's build that prioritized list out here 02:21:02 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_budget 02:21:06 i am looking into screenprinted sheets for the event boxes 02:21:15 no priceing yet 02:21:35 #action build prioritized list of items/event sponsorship 02:21:56 and I think another set of banners we would good 02:22:13 would be good 02:22:45 balloons :) 02:22:53 kid friendly stuff 02:23:26 * lcafiero sneaks in and sits in the back of the room 02:23:45 tell us what you want while you sneak around 02:23:45 TLF budget on the webpage is here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Texas:LinuxFest_2010/Budget 02:24:08 lcafiero, what is the sponsorship for lfnw 02:24:20 * makfinsky follows lcafiero's example. 02:24:38 VileGent: what's the process for acting on Chris Tucker's TLF sponsorship request? 02:24:42 should we digress and talk about sponsorship requests? 02:24:50 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sponsoring_event_attendees 02:24:50 The sponsorship for LFNW is $600 and there will be travel expenses that we haven't calculated yet 02:24:56 we=crossbytes and me 02:25:14 because in the past we have left it up to event owners for the most part 02:25:30 I was curious about that as well. 02:25:51 jetrigger is Chris Tucker :) 02:25:56 no wonder he's curious :) 02:25:56 several people think the section on the TLF page, similar to FUDCons in the past is a great idea 02:26:41 So on the TLF page it ballparks $1k for travel, and jetrigger is asking for about $300. 02:26:57 inode0 is attending, I know. 02:27:01 * inode0 picked $1K out of thin air 02:27:04 spevack, for budgeting purposes it should listed till we can talk about it more 02:27:15 * inode0 is only attending if his talk is accepted :) 02:27:17 I'll be attending if my talk is accepted, but my travel will come from my team's internal-to-RH travel budget and not the Ambassador budget 02:27:43 What talks are you two hoping to give? 02:27:45 I think it would be nice to give jetrigger an answer....? But I look to inode0 as the event owner 02:28:07 makfinsky: I submitted a talk about the interesting stuff going on in the intersection of open source software and education 02:28:23 * inode0 thinks answers are easier after 3/8 when we have speakers who we know are going or not 02:28:26 which is something that my team has spent a lot of time on in the past year -- especially mchua_afk, and gregdek 02:28:45 jetrigger: can you wait one more week until we know all the talks accepted or not? 02:29:09 spevack: Nice. 02:29:14 speaking only for myself, i'm inclined to give it a +1 unless there's some really weird budget reason not to. 02:29:20 Sure, if need be, I was trying to do this speedily to get discounted rate on lodging. 02:29:22 * inode0 also asked jetrigger to add a description of activities he plans to do at TLF 02:29:33 inode0: +1 to that for sure 02:29:54 I know, I just thought they should be on the wiki :) 02:30:13 right, +1 to putting that list down is what I was saying :) 02:30:23 spevack: other budgetary items? 02:30:30 two random things: 02:30:33 Linux Fest Northwest 02:30:42 ? 02:30:52 (1) I sent an email to a few folks earlier -- I've stolen an un-used laptop off of spot's desk, and it will be donated to NA ambassadors' event box. 02:31:21 StabbyMc, , is this when I need to talk about the event box ? 02:31:26 (2) In the next two weeks or so -- after all of RH's year-end stuff is done -- finance is going to give me their thoughts on buying pre-loaded VISA cards that we can hand out to Ambassadors worldwide. 02:31:36 I'm *really hoping* we can make that a reality 02:31:37 Arsenick: that's coming up :-) 02:31:41 StabbyMc, ok :P 02:31:42 +1 02:31:46 that's all from me 02:31:53 * spevack goes back to lurking 02:32:05 and tries not to fall asleep after a long day :P 02:32:16 spevack, ok where is that laptop going to go 02:32:18 spevack, check your e-mail about the Los Angeles Angels hat 02:32:35 The west coast yields to the senator from Virginia. 02:32:40 VileGent: it's going back to RDU with me. You guys tell me what to do with it from there :) 02:32:47 lcafiero: ok 02:32:56 spevack, i suspect canada 02:33:12 but we will discuss 02:33:20 it is something nice to put into their event box :) 02:33:24 I don't think we need it on the WC 02:33:24 they need a laptop *AND* a gold medal? sheesh! 02:33:31 yup it would be awesome! 02:33:33 Heh. 02:33:36 maha 02:33:40 Ok, in the interest of keeping the meeting moving forward ... 02:33:42 #topic North American Meeting - Budget Review.Media Spins, Quantity 02:34:01 So a while ago we talked about changing the media distributed. 02:34:02 they play us and they play us and they play us until they win and they get a gold medal 02:34:02 * lcafiero will bring up LFNW during open floor -- just a warning :-) 02:34:03 Arsenick: I'm happy to send it up to the Canada event box. I have no problem with that at all 02:34:16 Arsenick: are you assembling that box? 02:34:24 Arsenick: if so, send me a shipping address 02:34:25 I had proposed making an install DVD that also contained a live image. 02:34:47 But nothing ever came of it. 02:34:59 spevack,If we need to assemble it we will! But I don't know how they ship it 02:35:07 But it would cut down on the amount of different types of media we produce. 02:35:22 StabbyMc: does that require additional engineering work? 02:35:25 from rel-eng? 02:35:37 spevack: probably. 02:35:45 would be nice to have multi-arch DVDs 02:35:46 spevack, ok I'll send you the address by mail, do you need any other information, or you got everything you need to buy it ? 02:35:52 but we aren't driving that 02:35:56 spevack: jds2001 was supposed to broach the topic, but don't know that anything came of it. 02:36:21 StabbyMc: anything for F13 that requires new work needs to be a feature that is being worked on. It might be too late for that for F13 already, I'm not sure. 02:36:28 * spevack consults the schedule 02:36:35 isn't happening for F13 02:36:59 yeah, inode0 is right. 02:37:03 I 02:37:33 ok i am totally lost 02:37:38 I think that if Ambassadors are seeing a need for either multi-arch DVDs or an image that combines both, it's our responsibility to (at the least) tell the rel-eng guys about that in an email to their list and ask for their thoughts 02:37:52 (and at the most) spec out some feature proposals that can be discussed in F14 planning 02:37:58 but we can't just expect them to read these logs and do it. 02:38:03 * spevack states the obvious 02:38:07 VileGent: go ahead 02:38:14 they are considering it anyway, and we have spoken to them about it 02:38:20 cool 02:38:26 * spevack doesn't know anything :) 02:38:39 seems inevitable at some point 02:38:56 but I'm probably wrong 02:39:15 * ianweller is hereish 02:39:18 Ok, so tabled for now I guess. 02:39:20 i hope someone is writeing down the budget stuff 02:39:44 StabbyMc: what we want given what is available should be discussed maybe? 02:40:05 * inode0 wants herlo to use his brilliant judgment and decide :) 02:40:36 +1 on herlo's judgment 02:40:39 inode0: The agenda item was types and quantity of media, I defer to herlo. 02:40:55 VileGent: i captured most of it 02:40:56 one question that has come up though is do we want KDE live media 02:41:27 * lcafiero looks for the exits, just in case 02:41:40 Is that up for general discussion? I vote for kde live media. 02:41:53 I think we have no idea if there is any demand for it, thinks if we make it and people take it it tells us nothing about demand, ... 02:41:58 So far, live media has been more popular with folks I've met than the install media. 02:42:32 makfinsky, most people can get livecd.iso easily 02:42:35 actually, I think that's changing 02:42:37 My opinion generally was to get rid of DVDs and only do Live media at events 02:42:40 Everyone likes the live media at the LUG 02:42:51 Yeah, I can't say one way or the other about what desktop in the live media, just that everyone prefers the live media. 02:43:06 at scale, install media was more popular than in the past 02:43:10 at Scale both where very popular 02:43:11 very few people in NA can't download the DVD if they want it, the live media can be tested at the event 02:43:46 A live/install dvd would be great. 02:43:57 people just take whatever is in a cool sleeve at events 02:43:59 makfinsky, aint gonna happen 02:44:08 +1 mak 02:44:10 do they ever actually take it out and use it is what matters 02:44:19 makfinsky, yup! 02:44:38 making livemedia would be cheaper 02:45:14 what is the price for cds vs dvds 02:46:07 * inode0 thinks we lost herlo 02:46:44 seems like it was 50 cents for CDs and 70 for DVDs or something along those lines?! 02:46:50 VileGent: I know it's unlikely, especially for f13. 02:47:32 Is it even possible to buy a regular old cdrom for a laptop anymore? 02:48:05 so if we go with livecds what should be the split by type and arch 02:48:54 this is where I really want multi-arch because having to choose confuses many people 02:49:48 inode0: +1 02:49:55 if we want them to actually install using the live media we need both, if we want the live media to be for a test drive we really only need 32 bit 02:51:14 but if I walk up to a booth and say can I have Fedora and I'm confronted with 32 bit live, 64 bit live, 32 bit live kde, ..., this DVD and that DVD my head hurts 02:52:21 Agreed. The question here is what can we, ambassadors, do to help solve that technical problem? 02:52:22 inode0, +1 but what it mean, is there a lot of technical job to be done ? is it a question of time ? 02:52:54 * inode0 asks who our target audience is? 02:54:06 * threethirty thinks the target audience is "people with computers" 02:54:19 what are people asking for when we actually meet them? For instance, at FOSDEM we had a bunch of requests for x86_64 media, which we didn't have. Noted, and will be corrected next release. 02:54:55 spevack: most people were asking for USB media 02:54:58 at SCaLE 02:55:05 inode0: I'm here... 02:55:07 ??? 02:55:07 herlo: did they have USB sticks of their own? 02:55:08 just slow 02:55:13 spevack: no 02:55:13 wb herlo 02:55:31 but I don't think we're at a price point that matters... 02:55:41 We're going to spend a few hundred bucks on some USB keys for EMEA 02:55:44 hello, do you have Fedora on a 1TB external USB hard drive I can have? :) 02:55:53 people just want free USB sticks 02:55:54 and it's being left to the Ambassadors to be smart with to whom they re-distribute them 02:56:04 because of what dnhodgson says 02:56:17 -1 on usb sticks 02:56:43 we put F12 on some sticks given to us at scale by the owners 02:56:50 I looked into and priced some usb sticks for us to possibly give out for special circumstances ... can be discussed or not 02:56:59 Not every computer is usb bootable. People want the free stick to put other stuff on. 02:56:59 for the price we can make 20 pieces on media 02:57:35 jetrigger, I think most of "new" computer can boot from usb no ? 02:57:37 well, some do 02:58:00 all pieces of media end up in the trash - at least the usb sticks would be used 02:58:20 ever since oscon last year, we've been offering to put F11 & F12 on sticks provided by people if they so chose. 02:58:20 do we think it would be nice to hand out usbsticks yes is it finiancially doable no 02:58:28 That worked pretty well, imho 02:58:40 Most can I would think, but there are some that cannot, we tried at a install group once. 02:58:45 not to interrupt -- but is there anything that anyone here needs from me that can't wait until tomorrow or Wednesday? I am quickly hitting the wall in terms of productivity tonight. 02:58:57 er, tomorrow *is* wednesday 02:59:08 maybe it could be a good idea to offer to people making their usb key a live key ? 02:59:10 spevack: maybe 02:59:18 at events and booth 02:59:27 Arsenick: we do that! 02:59:32 herlo, some have said we should do only livecd for f13 what are your thoughts 02:59:36 spevack, ho great :) hehe 02:59:45 Arsenick, we do that 02:59:50 Arsenick: at least, we have the capabilities for that, and some people do it :) 03:00:23 spevack: Any links on the wiki ie, howto? 03:00:49 makfinsky: yum install liveusb-creator :) 03:01:01 Oh, duh. I've done that. 03:01:48 So we ready for the next topic? 03:01:54 spevack, nice, I'll try to do it at next release party to see if there's a "demand" for this 03:02:02 makfhttp://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f12/en-US/html/ch-new-users.html#sn-making-media 03:02:08 * inode0 goes back to leaving it to the wisdom of herlo - he knows what he is doing :) 03:02:12 makfinsky, http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f12/en-US/html/ch-new-users.html#sn-making-media 03:02:19 inode0: +1 03:02:44 Thnx VileGent! 03:03:53 so we're saying we leave media production in herlo's capable hands? 03:03:56 In favor? 03:04:15 +1 03:04:51 aye 03:05:00 +1 03:05:03 +1 03:05:11 +1 03:05:21 +1 03:05:56 #topic North American Meeting - Budget Review.Canada Event Box 03:06:08 Arsenick: have at it. 03:06:20 ok 03:07:13 so I just need to know how it works to buy the event box, do I need to send price and everything to Max ? 03:08:43 The timing was bad with the end of the quarter and the event I wasn't able to reach spevack 03:08:49 who bought/stocked the other NA event boxes and how did it work? 03:09:00 VileGent: sorry, I'm only half here 03:09:04 StabbyMc, just like that 03:09:25 herlo what were you saying about event boxes at SCALE 03:09:27 Arsenick: there you go. 03:09:38 alright, I'll try to stay here 03:09:51 Arsenick: I'm sorry -- we'll get it bought this quarter :) 03:10:03 spevack, so I check with few store on amazon and I've found the best place to buy it, lowest price, ship to canada and the overall price is the best 03:10:24 Arsenick: great! 03:10:32 spevack, it's ok, I've sent few emails but I didn't want to insist ;) Was just trying to fit it in the last quarter 03:10:45 Arsenick: I've just been swamped, it's my fault. I'm sorry 03:11:03 so I just need to give you the website + shipping address and that's it ? 03:11:14 damn it spevack, why can't you be at the beck and call of the ambassadors, 24/7? ;-) 03:11:16 as far as event boxen go, we have two sets of boxes that are kind of coming together to be one in a few places 03:11:29 I didn't find lot of information on how this work for the ambassadors 03:11:58 StabbyMc: i try :) 03:12:01 but sometimes I fail :) 03:12:12 lately i've been failing too much, to be honest 03:12:32 spevack: I wouldn't sweat it. 03:12:42 specifically the AVKit and the EventBox become one maybe... 03:12:53 Arsenick: you got what you needed? 03:12:55 we'll have a need for larger eventbox boxes 03:13:09 * herlo is sorry if he's interfering with other convos 03:13:21 StabbyMc, almost.. lol 03:14:06 spevack, What do you need to buy the box ? 03:16:09 * lcafiero has reservations about boxes larger than what we already have 03:16:14 Arsenick: a link to exactly what you want, and a shipping address :) 03:16:34 and a +1 from the folks in this meeting that it's the right thing to buy 03:16:42 +12 03:16:45 -2 03:16:47 Ok it's 10:15, I'm ready to call it. 03:17:10 5 03:17:16 wait 03:17:38 http://www.boss-safety.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1689{1}7 03:18:00 is herlo done? any discussion? has lcafiero talked about LFNW? 03:18:30 Arsenick: easy enough 03:18:49 41.25 for the shipping + 148.55 for the box Total: 189.8$ 03:19:13 i have not, but i can bring it up on list 03:19:22 Arsenick: I think that'll work better if you send spevack an e-mail with the link and your shipping address. 03:19:28 I want to make sure it gets addresses, but we haven't sorted out the budget completely. 03:19:29 arsenick: is that CAD? 03:19:55 Nop, USD 03:19:58 addresses=addressed 03:20:18 * spevack copied the URL into his todo list 03:20:23 but the shipping address is still needed 03:20:29 StabbyMc, ok no problem, just wanted to show everyone what I've spotted 03:20:48 spevack, I'm sending this to your email 03:20:55 Arsenick: that is a great price 03:21:15 Arsenick: cool 03:21:38 Allright, done with the event box :) 03:22:20 inode0, yep not that much! 03:22:27 #topic North American Meeting - Unfinished Business 03:22:38 lcafiero 03:22:42 NWLF 03:22:53 inode0: internet here sucks 03:23:21 herlo: we can do it again later when things are better 03:23:21 Well, briefly -- I didn't want the budgeting discussion to go by without bringing this up 03:23:45 We're probably looking at the same amount for LFNW as TLF, or maybe less. 03:24:02 So being late to the meeting, I don't know what was discussed. 03:24:23 Anyway, I can review the log and bring it up for discussion on list and bring it up for the next meeting. 03:24:33 inode0: cool 03:24:35 I think we basically agreed to sponsoring both before you came although other support is going to need to be worked out 03:24:42 OK 03:26:02 Just wanted to make sure LFNW got a fair shake 03:27:10 lcafiero, and get a budget page on the wiki 03:27:30 There is a budget section on the wiki. It's not yet filled in 03:27:45 by wiki you're talking about the LFNW wiki, right? 03:27:50 inode0: we good? 03:28:12 sorry, doing double duty 03:28:19 lcafiero, 1k for lfnw and i think 1k for TLF and media and tshirts and we is done 03:28:32 I'm good 03:28:42 Ok, then I'm wrapping it up. 03:28:44 5 03:28:46 Well, 1k may not be enough, but we'll see. 03:28:54 4 03:29:01 3 03:29:10 2 03:29:16 1 03:29:20 #endmeeting