05:01:35 <juhp> #startmeeting i18n
05:01:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar  4 05:01:35 2010 UTC.  The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:01:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:02:20 <juhp> welcome to this week's i18n meeting
05:02:36 <tagoh3> hi
05:03:00 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2010-03-04
05:03:09 <juhp> is the agenda page
05:03:14 <juhp> hi tagoh3
05:03:24 <juhp> anyone else here for the meeting
05:04:50 <paragan> hi
05:05:27 <juhp> ok
05:05:35 <juhp> maybe we get started
05:05:43 <juhp> slowly...
05:06:08 <juhp> #topic F13
05:06:50 <juhp> there was the Alpha go/no-go meeting this morning here and I believe it got the green light so guess alpha should be released next week
05:07:45 <juhp> #topic f13 relnotes
05:08:02 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_I18n_Beat
05:08:11 <juhp> phuang: how the ibus part going?
05:08:57 <phuang> We have added some
05:09:00 <juhp> the notes so far don't look that noteworthy
05:09:04 <juhp> phuang: thanks
05:09:16 <juhp> fujiwarat: anything new for anthy IME?
05:09:53 <fujiwarat> Currently, I'm working on thumb-shift layout and dict enhancements.
05:10:00 <juhp> phuang: I guess new libhangul supporting Romaja is worth mentioning?
05:10:21 <juhp> fujiwarat: yeah we're talking about f13 - will it go in?
05:10:28 <dychen_> hi
05:10:38 <fujiwarat> Yes, I'd like to integrate it in f13.
05:10:41 <juhp> paragan: will pravin join
05:10:43 <juhp> ?
05:10:48 <phuang> juhp, I don't know this feature. I will ask krisna about it
05:11:03 <juhp> Tyronne was complaining to me that sayura has broken keys maps
05:11:11 <juhp> he said he would file bugs...
05:11:31 <juhp> phuang: thanks - I haven't had a chance to test but thought it was in f13 now?
05:12:14 <fujiwarat> anthy is supposed non-utf8. however someone like to add extended chars in lookup table. I'll add a customization in ibus-anthy side.
05:12:18 <phuang> I am not sure
05:12:39 <juhp> kaio: do you have time to list the new tables in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_I18n_Beat#ibus ?
05:12:57 <paragan> juhp, he will I guess
05:12:59 <kaio> juhp☺ okay, I will do it by COB
05:13:06 <juhp> phuang: well I saw it in libhangul changelog/announce at least iirc
05:13:15 <phuang> OK
05:13:32 <kaio> i did that on somewhere wiki but need to get the url
05:13:43 <juhp> kaio: thanks this week would be cool or by next meeting at least - guess it only takes 5 min or so? :)
05:14:01 <juhp> kaio: or point me at the list :)
05:14:20 <kaio> juhp☺ yeah, for GA I think that is fixed
05:14:23 <juhp> phuang: nothing new for m17n?
05:14:30 <juhp> qt?
05:14:34 <juhp> or anything else?
05:14:34 <phuang> Just some bug fix
05:14:39 <juhp> ok
05:14:39 <kaio> juhp☺ as there are new pkgs I guess it wont be on F13 GA
05:14:53 <kaio> still on pkg review
05:15:25 <phuang> Qt is in f12 already, Maybe it is not new feature in f13
05:17:36 <juhp> phuang: yep - just doing a broadcast ping for any new ibus features
05:18:07 <juhp> phuang: so not too much UI/UX changes from 1.2 to 1.3?
05:18:14 <phuang> yeah
05:18:17 <juhp> ok
05:18:26 <juhp> that's fine then
05:18:30 <phuang> some new APIs, but it is not visibly for end-user
05:18:44 <juhp> paragan: anything we should mention for Indic??
05:19:04 <juhp> anyway we'll continue monitoring relnotes
05:19:32 <juhp> seems yum-langpack plugin has a bad bug with release repo conflicting with updates :-(
05:19:44 <juhp> not really sure what the cause is
05:19:50 <juhp> but will look into it
05:20:15 <paragan> will check and add it to release notes if any
05:20:25 <juhp> cool
05:20:40 <juhp> paragan: ah we probably should mention Lohit Devanagari
05:20:46 <paragan> yes
05:20:57 <kaio> juhp☺ should I incl the tables that will be in GA, or incl tables "will" be in repo also?
05:20:57 <tagoh3> fujiwarat: anthy supports utf-8 and all of dictionaries are utf-8 now though
05:21:39 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: I don't mean the encoding in dictionaries but the range of characters.
05:21:57 <juhp> kaio: GA
05:22:02 <kaio> k
05:22:02 <juhp> kaio: repo?
05:22:05 <kaio> ya
05:22:09 <juhp> what's the difference?
05:22:31 <kaio> xingma and yinma are still in pkog review
05:22:38 <kaio> but I will push to F13 repo
05:23:07 <juhp> kaio: I think you can include current new tables for now and add rest when/if they are ready
05:23:15 <kaio> okay
05:24:00 <juhp> #topic f13 bugs
05:24:07 <tagoh3> fujiwarat: ? it's capable to put utf-8 characters there. otherwise it's a bug in anthy
05:24:57 <juhp> hm
05:26:22 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: So I don't mean to put UTF-8 in dict itself. The anthy default dict suppose non-utf8 and many characters are useful in UTF-8.
05:26:38 <juhp> no blockers currently - I think my yum-langpack bug is a blocker though
05:26:54 <fujiwarat> I mean to enable additional dictionaries with GUI.
05:28:30 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: the design is two parts; one is embedded in the default dict another is to switch dicts with shortcut key.
05:28:48 <tagoh3> fujiwarat: sorry, I'm not fully understanding what you are talking about. all of dictionaries in anthy are in utf-8. you can communicate to anthy in utf-8 too.
05:29:36 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: anthy handles the default dicts only. I don't think it's anthy issue.
05:30:17 <tagoh3> what do you mean by "default dicts"?
05:30:43 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: anthy-9100h/mkworddic/*
05:31:22 <juhp> fujiwarat: so you want UI to add more dictionaries to ibus-anthy?
05:31:37 <juhp> (or through ibus-anthy)
05:32:25 <juhp> so no utf-8 problem?
05:32:45 <juhp> sounds like a good feature :)
05:33:27 <fujiwarat> I think the similar function is provided by MS-IME.
05:34:01 <juhp> aha
05:34:30 <juhp> ok put myself on blocker list ;)
05:34:33 <tagoh3> sounds nice feature though, how is it related to utf-8 vs non-utf8? :)
05:35:24 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: So I said many times :) Probably I can list the example dict later.
05:36:37 <juhp> .bug 563409
05:36:38 <zodbot> juhp: Bug 563409 fontconfig-2.8.0-1 changes default Monospace font from DejaVu Sans Mono to Baekmuk Gulim - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=563409
05:36:39 <tagoh3> anyway anthy completely supports utf-8 even for user dictionary.
05:37:00 <juhp> fujiwarat: example dict not in utf-8?
05:37:35 <fujiwarat> tagoh3:
05:37:37 <fujiwarat> http://fujiwara.fedorapeople.org/ibus/20100304/symbol-utf8.txt
05:37:50 <fujiwarat> These chars doesn't exist in EUC-JP and SJIS.
05:38:03 <fujiwarat> and not in anthy default dicts.
05:38:16 <juhp> aha
05:38:26 <juhp> so they could be added now?
05:38:46 <tagoh3> juhp: I think so
05:39:18 <tagoh3> it would be a kind of RFE for anthy
05:39:20 <juhp> fujiwarat: so we need an patch to anthy for upstream?
05:39:56 <fujiwarat> GUI applications need to check the char is supported in the current encoding.
05:40:21 <juhp> ah
05:40:47 <juhp> fujiwarat: so you have converse problem converting utf8 to euc-jp say?
05:40:59 <tagoh3> utf-8 is default encoding in Fedora and only supported encoding though
05:41:05 <juhp> right
05:41:24 <juhp> so guess it is an upstream issue for ibus-anthy?
05:41:28 <fujiwarat> I mean those chars won't be available in non-utf8.
05:41:41 <fujiwarat> juhp: Right.
05:41:45 <juhp> yup finally understood problem
05:42:07 <juhp> ibus works for non utf-8?
05:42:16 <juhp> well presumably?
05:42:23 <fujiwarat> Yes, I confirmed.
05:42:27 <juhp> ok
05:42:37 <tagoh3> off-topics anyway..
05:42:43 <juhp> fujiwarat: so what do you plan to do for those
05:43:06 <juhp> tagoh3: yeah getting a bit off topic perhaps we can continue elsewhere
05:43:14 <fujiwarat> I hope one week for the development.
05:43:20 <juhp> ok
05:43:40 <fujiwarat> There are two topics; adding dicts features and expand chars.
05:43:45 <juhp> tagoh3: so ko-kr should fix the baekmuk issue right?
05:43:55 <tagoh3> juhp: I think so
05:43:56 <juhp> fujiwarat: sounds good
05:44:04 <juhp> ok
05:45:17 <juhp> tagoh3: so is that orth related - why it is not needed for un-core?
05:45:31 <juhp> or is it already using ko-kr?
05:45:39 <tagoh3> fujiwarat: still suspect if it may be not something should be done outside of anthy. since anthy supports utf-8, ibus-anthy is still likely to get words not in non-utf-8 from anthy.
05:46:00 <juhp> aha
05:46:21 <juhp> tagoh3: can anthy be restricted by encoding?
05:46:36 <tagoh3> juhp: not needed? dunno. I don't think it's an issue in baekmuk only though.
05:47:13 <juhp> tagoh3: hmm let me look more into it after the meeting - still a bit unclear on that point
05:47:27 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: http://fujiwara.fedorapeople.org/ibus/20100304/dict.png
05:47:30 <juhp> I don't remember seeing any reports for un-core though
05:47:51 <tagoh3> juhp: can't say off hand - there are an API to change the encoding. so it may depends how it behaves when conversion failed.
05:47:58 <juhp> ok
05:48:13 <juhp> fujiwarat: what is Embd, Sgl, and Rev? :)
05:48:43 <juhp> kaio: I can take #563409
05:48:46 <fujiwarat> Embd: Embed in the default dicts
05:49:12 <fujiwarat> Sgl: Single dict to be switch with shortcut key.
05:49:21 <fujiwarat> Rev: Reverse conversion
05:49:22 <juhp> fujiwarat: ok - nicer to not abbreviate those I guess
05:49:38 <juhp> aha
05:50:01 <tagoh3> juhp: let me test it again later
05:50:08 <juhp> thanks
05:50:31 <juhp> .bug 568613
05:50:32 <zodbot> juhp: Bug 568613 Plan to change wqy-microhei-fonts and wqy-zenhei-fonts fontconfig conf files. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=568613
05:50:45 <juhp> epico_laptop: you say fangq's comment?
05:52:19 <tagoh3> sigh
05:52:54 <epico_laptop> yes.
05:52:56 <juhp> http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=文泉驛+字型
05:53:13 <juhp> tagoh3: :)
05:53:25 <kaio> <juhp> kaio: I can take #563409 # would be fantasitc thx
05:53:29 <epico_laptop> I think we missed to explain  to him, the changes on uming/ukai fonts to zh-tw.
05:53:32 <juhp> np
05:53:41 <juhp> epico_laptop:
05:53:44 <juhp> right
05:54:17 <epico_laptop> but last time I tried change the conf files for uming/wqy, it doesn't work as expected.
05:54:29 <juhp> epico_laptop: oh
05:54:34 <epico_laptop> zh-cn and zh-tw doesn't work.
05:54:48 <epico_laptop> so I just delayed the post on that bug.
05:54:52 <juhp> aha
05:55:06 <juhp> so zh-* is not workable to split TC and SC?
05:55:10 <juhp> in fontconfig
05:55:18 <epico_laptop> yes,
05:55:24 <juhp> epico_laptop: so what happens in that case?
05:55:52 * tagoh3 wonders if he should fights fangq back again
05:55:59 <juhp> hehe
05:56:14 <juhp> we have to fight for every step ;-P
05:56:33 <epico_laptop> It is the same with zh in the past. the higher priority font will take both zh-cn and zh-tw.
05:56:42 <juhp> anyway if it works I think we should just proceed
05:56:57 <juhp> epico_laptop: you tested with 65-0-*.conf etc?
05:57:03 <epico_laptop> not yet.
05:57:12 <pravins> hi juhp
05:57:23 <juhp> hi
05:57:42 <juhp> pravins: did you get any ibus-sayura bugs?
05:58:04 <juhp> alright let's test a bit more
05:58:11 <juhp> zh ought to work
05:58:21 <pravins> juhp: some crash bugs are open for it
05:58:28 <juhp> unless fontconfig is doing something weird
05:59:02 <juhp> pravins: Tyronne was complaining to me about ibus-sayura key maps regressing compared to scim-sayura
05:59:16 <juhp> and I asked him to file bug(s)
05:59:36 <juhp> he said techie people tend to use sayura apparently
05:59:39 <pravins> juhp: can you suggest him to open bug for it, i will discuss with Danishka or hash for it
05:59:44 <juhp> finally found that out.... :)
05:59:53 <juhp> I did :) ^
06:00:01 <pravins> cool :)
06:00:07 <pravins> i will surely work on it
06:00:18 <juhp> you might want to talk to him though - might be quicker
06:00:22 <juhp> anyway
06:00:31 <pravins> in fact i was also thinking nothing coming up for ibus-sayura ;)
06:00:39 <pravins> yep
06:00:50 <epico_laptop> sorry, where is 65-0-*.conf files?
06:01:02 <juhp> epico_laptop: they aren't :)
06:01:15 <juhp> epico_laptop: point is 65-0 is safely ahead of 65-nonlatin :)
06:01:28 <juhp> so we are moving all CIJK fontconfig to there
06:01:39 <juhp> or 65-<n>
06:01:48 <juhp> in fedora
06:01:59 <epico_laptop> I tested it with 64-, 65-.
06:02:03 <juhp> epico_laptop: well vlgothic has it now :)
06:02:22 <juhp> epico_laptop: 65-wqy is after 65-nonlatin
06:02:32 <juhp> but 64 should work
06:02:44 <juhp> hm
06:02:53 <juhp> let me try too later
06:03:22 <epico_laptop> ok.
06:04:29 <epico_laptop> I tried with some changes on F-12 with wqy/uming, but failed. :(
06:04:49 <tagoh3> juhp: yep. but 64 is for low priority LGC fonts. but not for non-LGC fonts
06:04:53 <juhp> looking through other f13 bugs
06:05:01 <juhp> tagoh3: I know :)
06:05:05 <pravins> juhp: no bug is opened for ibus-sayura
06:05:12 <juhp> I mean it should be sufficient for testing
06:05:17 <juhp> ok
06:06:55 <juhp> ok
06:07:08 <juhp> there are lots of rawhide bugs - but not today....
06:07:26 <juhp> #topic splitting TC and SC
06:07:38 <juhp> epico_laptop: do you want to update?
06:07:57 <juhp> guess the fontconfig is one part of this
06:08:15 <juhp> perhaps we can multiplex to save time
06:08:27 <juhp> who is going to package ibus-handwrite?
06:08:34 <juhp> unless it is epico_laptop :)
06:09:28 <juhp> pravins: also can you complete the Lohit Devanagari list on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_I18n_Beat
06:10:15 <pravins> juhp: i think we can add bitmap-fonts also here?
06:11:44 <juhp> pravins: dunno if it is necessary
06:11:56 <juhp> we'd rather hide it in the basement I think :)
06:12:10 <juhp> but we could possibly
06:12:13 <pravins> yes :)
06:12:28 <juhp> pravins: I think it belongs in the fonts section if we have one anyway not i18n
06:12:30 <epico_laptop> currently no update. stalled at the fontconfig bug.
06:12:36 <juhp> ok
06:13:05 <pravins> juhp: hmm, as per new packaging guideline, we really done lots of font name changes, and it really require
06:14:50 <juhp> epico_laptop: ok let's try to clear up the fontconfig first then and then decide how to proceed
06:15:07 <epico_laptop> ok. no problem.
06:15:24 <juhp> pravins: yep - so if you think it affects international users we can list the major changes
06:15:53 <pravins> may be users and other developers too
06:16:28 <juhp> dychen_: you ok with phuang and epico_laptop looking into packaging ibus-handwriting?
06:16:38 <juhp> it would be great if we can get it into f13 beta
06:16:52 <phuang> yeah
06:17:03 <juhp> we probably need to check zinnia license etc carefully but hope it is all good
06:17:40 <phuang> right
06:18:50 <dychen_> juhp: No problem
06:19:06 <dychen_> Guess I don't have time on that.
06:20:19 <juhp> dychen_: thanks cool
06:20:34 <juhp> so phuang and epico_laptop please :)
06:20:43 <juhp> # open space
06:20:51 <juhp> anything else to talk about today
06:20:51 <epico_laptop> ok. no problem.
06:21:08 <phuang> ok
06:21:09 <juhp> I think we are over time... but if there is something quick we can do it now
06:21:36 <juhp> otherwise we can close in a 1 minute or so :)
06:22:55 <pravins> juhp: i update lohit devanagari section
06:24:43 <juhp> great
06:24:49 <juhp> okay I think we are done
06:24:57 <juhp> thank you very much for today's meeting
06:25:12 <juhp> #endmeeting