16:30:09 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2010-03-04)
#meetingname irc-support-sig
#topic init process
16:30:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar  4 16:30:09 2010 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:15 * Sonar_Guy 
16:30:19 * hiemanshu 
16:30:55 <hiemanshu> nirik: the commands dint go down well
16:31:08 <nirik> oops.
16:31:10 <nirik> yeah. weird.
16:31:16 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
16:31:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
16:31:24 <nirik> #topic init process
16:31:38 <fenris02> 
16:31:40 <Khaytsus> 
16:31:42 <hiemanshu> 
16:31:58 * Sonar_Guy 
16:32:34 <nirik> I guess I can fix up the logs later.
16:32:40 <nirik> or just not worry too much. ;(
16:33:11 * Southern_Gentlem 
16:33:46 <nirik> ok, I didn't have too much today, so it could be a short meeting. ;)
16:33:58 <nirik> #topic Week in review
16:34:14 <nirik> http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
16:34:23 <nirik> @channelstats #fedora
16:34:23 <fedbot> nirik: On #fedora there have been 210533 messages, containing 8743647 characters, 1532818 words, 5470 smileys, and 7663 frowns; 2705 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 46591 joins, 3876 parts, 42976 quits, 122 kicks, 375 mode changes, and 4 topic changes.  There are currently 407 users and the channel has peaked at 609 users.
16:34:41 <nirik> Anyone have anything from this last week they would like to point out?
16:35:17 <hiemanshu> opsec
16:35:19 <Southern_Gentlem> been pretty quiet except the one idiot
16:35:26 <fenris02> Macedonia has a temp ban.
16:35:35 <Southern_Gentlem> that one
16:36:12 <nirik> all of macedonia? that seems harsh... but yeah.
16:37:30 <Khaytsus> Oh, whew, thought he was talking about me
16:37:32 <nirik> The links seem pretty normal for a week... been a reasonably normal week.
16:37:34 <Sonar_Guy> fenris02: I thought I saw fedbot remove that ban
16:38:18 <Khaytsus> 'sif anyone really cares, my own tips counter ranks nvidia first, second is flash :)
16:38:34 <Khaytsus> (ie:  Number of times I've personally done it)
16:39:38 * nirik hopes we will have less takers for nvidia in the next cycle when we have 3d in the free driver.
16:39:39 <fenris02> Khaytsus, not that i doubt you, i actually concur, but i'd love to figure out how to compare :)
16:40:35 <nirik> hiemanshu: you have something to bring up? please try not to name names... just talk about the issue/etc in general.
16:40:37 <Southern_Gentlem> nope still there
16:41:07 <EvilBob> Sorry I'm late
16:41:30 <Sonar_Guy> speaking of the troublemaker
16:41:30 <hiemanshu> nirik: well seems to be getting too much to handle
16:42:34 <EvilBob> hiemanshu: if you can't handle the heat... stay out of the fire
16:42:37 <nirik> I'm fine banning them just like anyone else if they cause problems...
16:42:57 <nirik> feel free to ping me on it.
16:43:04 <EvilBob> It's not about us, it's about the others
16:43:07 <Southern_Gentlem> hiemanshu,  when it comes to that one person if its in #fedora let me or nirik handle it
16:43:52 <hiemanshu> Southern_Gentlem: will do
16:43:58 <nirik> anything else on week in review?
16:44:07 <EvilBob> I am not sure if it was tis week or last
16:44:39 <EvilBob> 4 hours was spent "helping" a user just because they did not feel like reading anything
16:44:59 <EvilBob> not 4 hours on random things
16:45:05 <EvilBob> 4 hours on ONE thing
16:45:34 * Southern_Gentlem hands EvilBob  the Dental tools of the week award**
16:45:39 <EvilBob> It was not even spoon feeding, it was loading up and giving the mipple
16:45:58 <Khaytsus> did you test it on your forearm?
16:46:17 <nirik> EvilBob: so what can we learn from that, how can we avoid that moving forward?
16:46:33 <EvilBob> nirik: I know how I would have handled it
16:46:33 <nirik> have someone note when it's been 30min or something?
16:46:56 <EvilBob> nirik: I would have kicked the abuser, the helper and the OP
16:47:14 <nirik> and that would have helped how?
16:47:32 * Khaytsus buys EvilBob a punching clown
16:47:48 <EvilBob> I don't know that it would have helped
16:47:58 <nirik> I think if you see someone helping for a long time, you should talk to the helper and note to them how long it's been...
16:48:01 <EvilBob> as the comic says "You can't fix stupid"
16:48:04 <nirik> they might have just not realized.
16:48:25 <zcat> EvilBob, maybe link 'em to the "vampire" page before giving up? (can't find the link. ivazquez used to hand it out a bunch)
16:48:50 <EvilBob> nirik: they knew
16:48:55 <nirik> "really? it's been 2 hours? wow" "hey, foo, I have been helping you for 2 hours and you haven't made any progress. Why don't you go read and come back another time?"
16:49:06 * fenris02 chuckles
16:49:37 <nirik> http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/ ?
16:49:39 <EvilBob> hell fenris02 gave up a half hour or so in
16:50:03 <zcat> nirik, that's the one! "help vampires".
16:50:09 <zcat> there's always a limit...
16:50:13 <nirik> sure.
16:50:50 <nirik> anyhow, anything further productive on this topic? or shall we move on?
16:51:09 <EvilBob> We some kind of gauge for these things, I wanted to bring it up so people would think about it and maybe we can create a guide
16:52:03 <nirik> yeah, the maximizing support link is also good to give those people.
16:52:14 <fenris02> EvilBob, your patience is better than mine.
16:52:30 <EvilBob> nirik: You are missing the point
16:53:01 <nirik> ok. whats the point?
16:53:11 <EvilBob> nirik: the links were given, the user flat out admitted that "we" would be doing the work, they had no interest in reading or learning anything
16:53:41 <nirik> really? ok, I missed that part.
16:53:52 <nirik> I thought they were just obtuse
16:54:17 <EvilBob> thus why I said the abuser and the helper needed to go
16:54:24 <nirik> in that case, yes, they should have been booted to somewhere else...
16:54:34 <nirik> IMHO
16:55:26 <nirik> we are not a paid support service that will do all the work for someone. We are here to help them help themselves.
16:55:42 <EvilBob> So we need to think on that in my opinion and make a "rule"
16:56:18 <EvilBob> I can post logs for those interested, I am sure I can come up with them
16:56:27 <nirik> EvilBob: sure, I would like to see them.
16:56:46 <Sonar_Guy> Me too
16:57:27 <EvilBob> that's all I have
16:57:30 <nirik> ok, thanks EvilBob. Moving along...
16:57:37 <nirik> #topic F13 Alpha
16:57:45 <nirik> next week the alpha is coming out.
16:58:02 <fenris02> it has a fairly sizable 'known issues' list yet.
16:58:03 <nirik> be sure and remember to point people to #fedora-qa for questions on that
16:58:12 <nirik> yeah, alphas often do. ;(
16:58:30 <Southern_Gentlem> hopefully another f12 re-spin as well
16:59:02 <nirik> cool.
16:59:11 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:59:28 <zcat> looking forward to the f13 gpxe booting/installing myself. (hopefully there'll also be a post-install option to keep it in the grubmenu)
17:00:24 <nirik> zcat: yeah, gpxe is cool. I have used it a bit since newer libvirt guests use it by default now.
17:00:49 <nirik> ok, anyone have anything for open floor?
17:01:27 <zcat> i hope to be around a bit more than i have in the past few weeks. baby's "settled in".
17:01:35 <EvilBob> Nothing here
17:01:44 <EvilBob> Oh, F12 Re-Spin
17:01:55 <nirik> zcat: cool.
17:02:07 <EvilBob> Coming soon to a Soda Fountain near you!
17:02:49 <nirik> excellent.
17:03:03 <nirik> ok, will go ahead and close out the meeting here in a few if nothing comes up.
17:03:27 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone!
17:03:32 <nirik> #endmeeting