15:04:24 #startmeeting BugZappers meeting 2010/03/09 15:04:24 Meeting started Tue Mar 9 15:04:24 2010 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:04:26 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:04:34 * mcepl is in 15:04:36 hello everyone 15:04:41 * Tech33 is here 15:04:41 #topic roll call 15:04:42 hi 15:05:04 heya adam 15:05:26 Greetings. 15:05:30 hi all 15:05:36 glad you could make it beland :) 15:06:05 alright, we don't really have much on the agenda today... 15:06:10 #topic previous meeting follow-up 15:06:37 previous meeting was http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-02-23/fedora-meeting.2010-02-23-15.04.html 15:07:13 we had a few action items on there, so let's just check in on 'em 15:07:27 mcepl: you got co-ownership of the triage space on fedorahosted, right? 15:08:54 well...i'm pretty sure he did =) 15:09:04 adamw: yes 15:09:11 ok, great, so that one's done 15:09:20 #info mcepl is now an admin of the fedorahosted triage space 15:09:46 we had an action item down for tk009 to email comphappy about the statistics stuff 15:09:49 and after prolong hacking session on #fedora-admin (and #trac) I managed to revive XML-RPC access to the Trac on triage project. 15:09:56 oh cool! 15:09:59 nice stuff. 15:10:08 (Eclipse-mylyn FTW) 15:10:14 #info triage trac space is now xml-rpc accessible again 15:11:26 ok, on statistics again 15:11:59 for the newer members...well, almost everyone...=) there's a group member with the nick 'comphappy' who's been working on and off on a system to give us statistics about triaging 15:12:15 just so we can get an idea of how much actual work we're doing, how it changes over time, all that good stuff 15:12:30 and some of us are not holding their breath anymore ... being completely blue 15:12:36 it's been kind of a long story though :) we almost had a working system, then changed approach, and stuff. 15:12:57 so, though we had an action item down, comphappy actually stopped by the channel shortly after last week's meeting and explained what's up now 15:13:20 mcepl doesn't have enough to do, let him recode it :) 15:13:26 he's working with the Fedora Community team to integrate his work there, which makes sense, because Fedora Community is the logical space for this kinda thing 15:13:46 #link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/ 15:13:53 no I mean, great kudos to comphappy for work he did ... I know half of theproblems were not of his making 15:14:26 he's been discussing it on infrastructure-list , so you can follow along with progress there (his real name is Brennan Ashton, that's what you'll see on the mails) 15:15:32 so, there's some news there. and yeah, we always make a little fun of the project for dragging on so long, but at least brennan is trying, so of course if anyone wants to help him that would be awesome 15:15:54 so if you're interested, look for him on irc or drop him an email (his address is in the infrastructure archives) 15:16:25 anyone have comments / questions on that? 15:17:32 adamw, is there a wiki page or is this project described in some of those mailing lists posts? i'd like to read more about it. 15:17:49 personally I'm of two minds about metrics, they can be useful, they can also be not useful 15:17:53 good question...give me a few mins (or anyone else who has links, join in) 15:19:01 daumas: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2009-April/006513.html is an outline of the _old_ version of the tool, which was submitted to infrastructure as its own project 15:19:33 adamw: thanks 15:19:47 daumas: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2010-February/008373.html is the new project brennan's working on, which i believe is kind of a prerequisite for the Ultimate Vision 15:20:15 and you can find the actual code for the old version of the tool at https://fedorahosted.org/triage/browser/triageweb 15:20:29 (i believe it uses some stuff from 'scripts' in the same root, as well) 15:20:59 Tech33: what's your worry about stats? 15:21:22 adamw: not really important, should not have mentioned it 15:21:45 Tech33: i was interested =) 15:22:13 well, just a for instance 15:22:46 if my own stats were to be shown, you'd see an over-abundance of closed cantfix, and closed dupes 15:23:12 but without understanding the why, it can be interpreted ... if not wrong, then badly 15:23:48 sure, the idea wasn't to act as a sort of Are You A Good Triager, You Naughty Little Monkey tool :) 15:24:29 there were going to _be_ stats for individual triagers in there, but it was mostly intended to let us know who was active and who was idle, and as a reference for the triagers themselves, not a stick for the Authorities to use to beat you with 15:26:47 okay, couple of other things on the action items... 15:27:10 #info comphappy is now working on triage statistics under the Fedora Community umbrella in the infrastructure team, see infrastructure list for details 15:27:22 Tech33: and tool for leadeship of BugZappers (me, adamw, etc.) towards Fedora Project and Red Hat to show that we are actually good for something. 15:27:34 so there was an action item for me to work with poelcat and tk009 on the rawhide -> f13 rebase 15:27:37 mcepl: exactly! 15:28:08 we've made progress with that, we set up the queries and updated the housekeeping page and sent an announce to -devel 15:28:20 which got some feedback that we're trying to work through before we actually push the rebase through. 15:28:32 adamw: the rebase is scheduled for today 15:28:40 poelcat: are you around? do you know if the rebase actually needs fesco approval, as someone said in the thread? 15:28:48 ah, well, you answered my first question already =) 15:28:59 adamw: fesco approved the whole process back in the beginning 15:29:08 right, so each specific rebase doesn't need it 15:29:08 I wouldn't think there's more approval needed from us 15:29:18 adamw: not at all 15:29:19 that's what i figured too, the question in the thread just threw me for a loop 15:29:44 are you worried about any of the feedback? there was that thing someone worked up to use the version selected when the bug was filed rather than whatever's on it now 15:29:44 * poelcat is about 800 messages behind on devel list... maybe time to declare bk 15:29:51 but i don't see why that would be reliable 15:30:07 poelcat: just mark all the ones with 'update' (or 'udpate') in the topic as read, it'll help =) 15:30:43 poelcat: killfile is a necessity (gmane.org and newsreaders opportunity to use it) 15:30:47 for reference, the -devel thread is http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-March/132338.html 15:31:30 till's reply talking about FESco is http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-March/132390.html 15:31:55 and his apparently-overengineered alternative list derivation method is http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-March/132416.html 15:32:15 adamw: the only thing I can think that needs to be modified to match NFR is the timing of the rebase 15:32:18 that is all 15:32:22 yeah, me too 15:32:36 we've run the rebase multiple times before and it's been fine 15:32:47 maybe I should've made that point more clearly in the thread...oh well 15:33:17 all documented here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Releases 15:33:24 summary, the rebase is going to happen today and we're happy with that...sound right? 15:33:40 * jeff_hann too late again :( 15:33:44 hi jeff 15:34:00 hi everyone 15:34:59 adamw: my only suggestion (if it isn't too late to change things w/ eng-ops) 15:35:13 would be to delay for a few more days 15:35:21 if that gives people more time to make any adjustments they want to 15:36:04 poelcat: well, there wasn't a big groundswell of concern, it was just a couple of people responding to the thread 15:36:07 so i think it should be fine 15:36:28 okay 15:38:09 alrighty, last item we had was for me again, to update the bug lifecycle page to match no frozen rawhide 15:38:24 #info f13 bug rebase is going ahead as planned, no problems expected 15:38:58 I did update the lifecycle page; it turned out to be unexpectedly tricky 15:39:09 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/BugStatusWorkFlow 15:39:36 the diff of the change is https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=BugZappers%2FBugStatusWorkFlow&diff=157433&oldid=155130 15:39:50 it'd be great if people could check it and see if a) it looks correct and b) it's not now too flipping confusing 15:40:10 because i sorta had to crowbar bits in around the old language, it's probably somewhat uglier now than I would've liked to make it if writing from scratch 15:40:44 #info adamw updated the bug workflow page to match up with no frozen rawhide: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=BugZappers%2FBugStatusWorkFlow&diff=157433&oldid=155130 15:42:27 so, any questions / comments on that? 15:42:47 Looks OK. 15:42:59 I did have a question about NFR and [[Releases/Rawhide]] 15:43:43 shoot! 15:43:50 Is http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/ F13 or F14? 15:44:41 f13 15:45:20 I thought so from the mailing list conversation... 15:45:24 When will it change over? 15:45:39 And is there somewhere to get Live media for F14? 15:46:18 nirik maintains those images 15:46:26 nirik: ^^^^ 15:46:41 i don't believe there's F14 images anywhere atm, but i may be wrong 15:47:35 beland, in about 6 months 15:47:54 Southern_Gentlem: well, the live images may well switch to being f14 at a different time to the release 15:47:58 it's essentially up to nirik 15:48:36 Are we estimating it will be around a particular milestone? 15:49:22 i've no idea =) 15:49:25 seems nirik isn't around... 15:49:49 I suppose the idea here is that the "real" rawhide doesn't need all that much testing compared to the branched/alpha/beta release? 15:50:24 well, basically that what people who get the nightly live images probably want, and what we probably want them to test, is f13 15:50:24 Well I guess the question is whether you can *ever* install Rawhide from a Live image, as the Rawhide page currently claims. 15:50:52 well, for a short time, yes: before f13 was branched from rawhide, you could. 15:51:03 but obviously the current wording is a bit outdated. there's probably other stuff on the page that may need changing 15:52:14 beland: do you want to take an action item to just revise it? we trust your wiki kung fu, i think :) 15:53:12 I will update the link to the daily live media to correctly describe what's there, but it's difficult to give the reading public a clear explanation when no one really knows what's going on. 8) 15:54:04 well, ask nirik about his plans for the live images, and oxf13 for any other questions about the NFR process 15:54:44 i'll stick it in there as an action item anyway, if you don't get enough info to do it, no biggie, we'll come back to it later 15:54:57 #action beland to try and update the Rawhide wiki page for NFR, with input from nirik and oxf13 15:55:38 Are their email addresses the same (@fedoraproject.org)? 15:56:11 nirik is Kevin Fenzi, from the list (just check your -test archive for his address) 15:56:18 oxf13 is Jesse Keating, jkeating at red hat 15:56:26 Okay, thanks. 15:57:29 thanks a lot beland 15:57:34 okay, so, that's it for the agenda... 15:57:36 #topic open floor 15:57:53 real quick? 15:57:57 or out of time? 15:58:01 did anyone have any issues they wanted to bring up? anyone stuck on something, just losing their motivation, aaanything? 15:58:26 beland: oh, darn, sorry, I didn't see your reply about Tracking bugs 15:58:30 beland: or else i'd have worked that in 15:58:38 er, Target bugs 15:58:50 I knew there was something I was forgetting. 15:58:52 shall we put that on next week's agenda? 15:59:11 Your call. 15:59:37 yeah, let's 15:59:44 anything aside from that, anyone? 16:00:30 I had one, but don't have time now, I'll make an agenda item for next week 16:00:38 okay, sorry to over-run 16:01:02 just a reminder, the Agenda Item List is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers:meeting-agenda-list , if there's something you want to discuss at a meeting you can always throw it in there 16:01:07 and we'll pull it in for the next meeting's agenda 16:01:19 let's wrap this puppy up :) thanks for coming everyone! 16:01:36 #endmeeting