15:02:37 <quaid> #startmeeting 15:02:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 24 15:02:37 2010 UTC. The chair is quaid. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:02:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02:57 <quaid> #topic Summer Coding SIG - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_SIG#Agenda 15:03:16 <quaid> ok, let's hang here for a moment and give folks a chance to come in 15:05:00 <quaid> ok, then 15:05:02 * jreznik is here - interested in fedora soc - we are already running lot of fedora/jboss projects here in brno as diploma thesis... 15:05:24 <quaid> ooh, cool 15:05:56 <jreznik> would be great to join these efforts 15:06:03 <quaid> #topic GSoC situation report before we move on for the year ... 15:06:28 <quaid> ok, I wanted to address this one since it was asked of me multiple times and I did hear back some response; 15:06:44 <quaid> first there is supposed to be an IRC meeting where non-accepted mentoring orgs can learn more about why. 15:06:50 * mchua here, interested in how to tap universities who'd like to help with this 15:06:58 * mchua settles back to listen 15:07:07 <quaid> I don't think I'll attend, but anyone who wants to is welcome. 15:07:19 <quaid> yeah, i skipped the self-intros 15:07:27 <quaid> maybe we just insert that next :) 15:07:46 <quaid> ok, so the bottom line is, we missed a part of the application that I don't think any of us were aware was a MUST have part 15:08:11 <quaid> our ideas page(s) were incomplete (or bare). 15:08:56 <quaid> I never drove to have those completed because we were working on a new scheme where we didn't put forward random ideas from sub-projects who may not really want to do the mentoring effort; we wanted to pre-vet the ideas a bit. 15:09:11 <quaid> obviously, the process and schedule there failed, since it wasn't done by the deadline, and it turned out to be important. 15:09:19 <quaid> any questions/comments before we move on? 15:09:44 * quaid is working on a "lessons learned" blog post but it's not a tip-top priority right now :) 15:09:48 <dash123> maybe the previous year ideas should have been inserted back into this year's ideas...the bare ideas page must have been a turn off. 15:10:14 <quaid> dash123: I agree we could have used the "winning formula" from previous years 15:10:35 <quaid> but every year we have had a pile of ideas that weren't pre-vetted, and those ended up being what people did regardless of how much real interest there was. 15:11:57 <quaid> we've had more than one student who did a proposal and worked on something that the rest of the community was no longer interested in; guess where the project and student ended up? not sticking around here ... 15:14:16 <quaid> anything else on this? 15:14:39 <pwbarnes> I sincerely hope that was not a key factor in Google's decision. I would like to hear what they have to say about our rejection, whenever the IRC meeting actually happens. 15:15:24 <quaid> pwbarnes: my guess? They have so many applications that if an application is missing what is considered a MUST have element, they drop it on the floor immediately. 15:16:12 <poelcat> inode0: stickster which team schedule should elections appear on? 15:16:21 <quaid> #topic Self-intro about why you are interested in Summer Coding, if you'd like ... 15:16:39 <quaid> before we go on with the agenda https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_SIG#Agenda) 15:16:47 <quaid> if anyone wants to continue on this vein until :20 15:17:36 <dash123> maybe offtopic- but I'd like to work on Fedora EKG.For me the idea of a mentor guiding your step is what interests me.. 15:18:10 <quaid> dash123: that's a great point, thanks for making it -- a clear mentoring relationship is one excellent thing Summer Coding SIG can offer. 15:18:23 * mchua spends much of her time working on "open source in higher education" and sees summer coding (beyond google) as a potentially very powerful model for getting universities (professors and institutions, not just individual students) deeply involved in FOSS - something we haven't been particularly good at doing in the past - an opportunity to have this actually insitutionally sanctioned by colleges and such. 15:18:30 <mchua> +1 mentoring yay! 15:20:19 <quaid> #topic IRC channels ... 15:20:38 <quaid> last week I secured #fedora-summer-coding; we also have #fedora-gsoc and #redhat-summer 15:20:49 <quaid> my proposal is this, and interested in hearing ideas, etc.: 15:21:04 <quaid> i) #fedora-summer-coding becomes effectively the main channel for this SIG, right after this meeting. 15:21:20 <quaid> ii) #fedora-gsoc is 'put in mothballs' until next year. 15:21:55 <quaid> iii) #redhat-summer remains in case we need a neutral place for Fedora and JBoss.org dicussions; understand that Fedora Summer Coding is Fedora branded. 15:22:13 <quaid> <eoidea> 15:23:00 * pwbarnes agrees. 15:23:38 <mchua> redirect from #fedora-gsoc to #fedora-summer-coding? 15:23:58 <quaid> mchua: I tried but it isn't reliable 15:24:12 <jreznik> for me sounds good - but one channel is much more better than breaking it to several more 15:24:26 <quaid> you do an invite only with a forward, but not all clients recognize or accept the forward, so they are stuck without anywhere to go 15:24:33 <pwbarnes> I am sure we can get the channel forwarding working. 15:24:34 <jreznik> quaid: so just topic - "go to #fedora-summer-coding"? 15:24:44 <quaid> jreznik: yeah :) 15:25:01 <pwbarnes> If someone has set the +Q user mode, they will still be notified of the forward. 15:25:42 <quaid> pwbarnes: we had a failure with abadger1999 last week, unsure if he was getting that notification; let's work on setting up the forward and testing it later. 15:26:15 <pwbarnes> Right. 15:26:54 <quaid> my final thought is this -- we need to take a chunk of work that we can actually do this year, and the place I know we can do that work is under the Fedora brand; groups such as JBoss.org can participate just as any other upstream can participate, through Fedora and in the SIG. 15:27:05 <quaid> it's about embracing the all-encompassing nature of the Fedora brand :) 15:27:27 <quaid> which would be my segue to ... 15:27:45 <quaid> #topic https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_SIG#Agenda -- Enacting a bigger vision. 15:27:57 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_SIG#Plan 15:27:59 <pwbarnes> We do need to invite JBoss.org, though they have to take some initiative if they actually want to participate. 15:28:31 <quaid> pwbarnes: I'll be sure to send out further invitations to where I know how to communicate with the JBoss community 15:29:09 <quaid> to summarize that plan as a short series of ideas: 15:29:37 <quaid> #idea Work directly with participating schools instead of any student who comes along; simplifies and amplifies what we are doing 15:30:10 <quaid> #idea Bring in additional sponsors if they want to do what we are doing, which helps increase the icentive pool (stipends, etc.) 15:30:43 <quaid> #idea Students from participating schools can work on any Fedora project or an upstream project through Fedora 15:31:11 <quaid> #idea Exposing ideas for students to work on is a big part problem for Fedora, and we can start working with OpenHatch.org for solutions. 15:31:15 <quaid> <eoideas) 15:31:25 <quaid> sound crazy? 15:31:38 <mchua> sounds great. 15:31:59 <mchua> I'd love to help with the openhatch side of things - one of their folks (Asheesh Laoria) and I are actually giving an OSCON talk on getting-started projects. 15:32:18 <mchua> Fits right into this sort of topic. So... however I can help bridge/proxy, I'd love to. 15:32:32 <quaid> mchua: be prepared to code :D 15:32:59 <mchua> quaid: I would love an actual excuse to get my hands dirty with code again. I've been missing that for a while. 15:33:11 <mchua> As long as it isn't PIC assembly or verilog. ;) 15:33:42 <mchua> There are a bunch of RIT folks listening in on this, I know - and probably some other people we haven't heard from yet. 15:33:54 <mchua> I'm curious what people coming to this meeting from universities/colleges are thinking. 15:34:11 <KnightMearh> Yah, here's your chance to work with code. Come with us on MAFH developing the engine ; ) you know you want too... 15:34:38 <quaid> :D 15:35:02 <quaid> one thing that is very important ... 15:35:10 <quaid> if you care _at_all_ about this 15:35:15 <quaid> join the mailing list. 15:35:21 * jreznik already did 15:35:26 <quaid> #link 15:35:33 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_SIG#Mailing_List 15:35:39 <quaid> jreznik: thanks 15:35:52 <quaid> yeah, I don't think we want to overly discuss this in a meeting 15:36:09 <quaid> when we have a perfectly good mailing list to abuse :) 15:36:34 <quaid> any more on this topic? 15:36:50 <mchua> bigger-vision? 15:36:53 <quaid> yes 15:37:01 <quaid> for example ... 15:37:07 <jreznik> our (RH @BRQ) current way is - we have a deal with few universities here in Czech rep. - they announce our topics in their internal IS, students know who can contact in school and then they are redirected to RH 15:37:31 <mchua> so I'm not sure if this fits, but I'm at Allegheny College right now and of the profs says he has a summer coding project that would work well as FOSS, can supervise a student (easy to find a good one), etc. 15:37:46 <quaid> jreznik: great; maybe the SIG can be integrated to help with organization, etc. 15:38:10 <quaid> mchua: the one gap we have is what to do with students who are in Fedora but not at a school we would work from. 15:38:16 <mchua> the prof (Matt) wonders if that would fit under this umbrella, and if so, what he should do to loop it in; it would help if there was $3k for a stipend, but that's something we can discuss 15:38:16 <jreznik> we have meetings with students once a year - now it's great opportunity to announce fedora summer of code - tmrw we have it at FI MUNI 15:38:29 <mchua> quaid: do it like UROPs 15:38:37 <quaid> this might be where the sponsorship pool comes in, to pay a selection of @fedoraproject.org people to work on projects. 15:38:55 <mchua> quaid: students from one college frequently do "research" at another, we could send those students to a willing participating institution for the summer. 15:39:14 <quaid> ok, so studet/mentor/project brokering 15:39:31 <mchua> quaid: Matt also mentioned that having it be tied to an institution would (1) make it a part of the student's academic experience as well as their FOSS experience - doublecount! and (2) make the dropout rate close to 0% 15:39:46 <quaid> jreznik: just be aware, I think Google has a trademark on "Summer of Code"; regardless, we don't want to create confusion. 15:39:56 <jreznik> quaid: yes, it would be great - student can start in summer (even as intern for RH), then finish last year with diploma thesis based on fsoc and then work for RH - for Fedora/JBoss benefit 15:40:09 <mchua> quaid: still have the community participation, the community mentors, etc - but also this would let us have a faculty member there as that sort of touchpoint, that accountability oversight who can make sure students stay on track and all. 15:40:12 <jreznik> quaid: so - Fedora Summer Coding, right? 15:40:13 <quaid> +1 to integrating Fedora/JBoss internships as part of the SIG :) 15:40:23 <quaid> jreznik: yeah, I think that works ... 15:40:33 <mchua> jreznik: whoa, that would be a brilliant pipeline. 15:40:54 <quaid> jreznik: yeah, let's discuss the particulars on list so you all can start talking about it immediately. 15:40:54 <jreznik> mchua: it's actually how does it work right now in Brno office 15:41:22 <mchua> (whoops - UROP == Undergraduate Research Opportunities Program, something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UROP - a common sort of setup across many types of institutions, this is a frequently found model in academia) 15:41:32 <mchua> jreznik: even more brilliant :) 15:42:00 <quaid> #action jreznik to bring Brno summer coding opportunities discussion to the list for further planning. 15:42:01 * jreznik was hired this way :) 15:42:57 <quaid> ok, moving on ... 15:43:16 <quaid> #topic Defining next actions 15:43:29 <jreznik> quaid: ok, I'll do it tmrw - I'd like to talk to some people here what they think about 15:43:36 <quaid> +1 15:43:53 <quaid> jreznik: anyone wants to chat about it, get more information, either on list or #fedora-summer-coding 15:44:22 <quaid> #action mchua to start discussion with openhatch.org to find out how we can integrate our ideas/needs pool 15:44:38 <quaid> one important thing we need ... 15:44:49 <quaid> is to add to the wiki page so it's clear what we are doing. 15:45:23 <quaid> can anyone work with us on list to improve the [[Summer Coding SIG]] page? 15:45:34 <quaid> maybe also start a [[Summer Coding 2010]] page with specifics about this year. 15:46:48 <quaid> ok :) 15:47:03 <quaid> I'll keep on that one and see if you all can help correct my opacity. 15:47:32 <quaid> #action quaid to start [[Summer Coding 2010]] as central page for this year's work. 15:48:21 <quaid> #topic Defining 2010 plan ... and open discussion 15:48:36 <quaid> I want to leave us some of the remaining time 15:48:44 <quaid> to openly discuss whatever you all think is important 15:49:01 <quaid> meanwhile ... 15:49:18 <quaid> aside from mchua and jreznik, is there anyone who is interested in interacting directly with one or more schools? 15:50:24 <quaid> school participation includes: telling their students, providing some oversight, looking for ways to supplement students (such as room & board), integrating student work in to academic record. 15:50:25 <jreznik> quaid: that's why I'm not sure it's a good idea to depend on universities - better would be if students know about us and if they are interested - they can bring it to their schools 15:51:25 <quaid> my only concern there would be flailing around between students and whoever-they-can-find-at-the-University, and then it's 2011 ... 15:51:36 <quaid> I'd rather work with one or two schools and have a smaller but successful program. 15:51:52 <jreznik> quaid: sounds reasonable 15:52:07 <mchua> quaid: do we have specific schools to target right now? 15:52:11 <mchua> I see Allegheny, RIT, Olin on the list 15:52:13 <quaid> jreznik: let's make sure that we explain to students who want to bring it to their school what that means, so they can do it if motiviated! 15:52:31 <quaid> mchua: right, that's my list because that's who _we_ know 15:53:16 <quaid> #agreed Allegheny, RIT, and Olin are on the list of schools we are trying to work with. 15:53:36 <quaid> what about CMU? 15:54:29 <quaid> ok, I think our plan right now is: 15:54:36 <quaid> i) finish defining our plan :) 15:54:45 <quaid> ii) make that clear on the [[Summer Coding SIG]] page 15:54:48 <mchua> quaid: I'll be visiting CMU I think next Friday and can ask 15:54:52 <quaid> iii) start new 2010 specific page 15:54:59 <mchua> quaid: do we have a deadline for nailing down which schools we target for this summer? 15:55:05 <quaid> iv) let the world know what our plan is 15:55:07 <mchua> and what they/we need to figure out re: interface before $deadline? 15:55:16 <quaid> mchua: see step i) 15:55:29 <quaid> #action need to set deadline for school participation 15:55:51 <quaid> #action need to set specific list of what a school needs to decide/figure out before deadline 15:55:59 * mchua grins 15:56:27 <jreznik> we work with http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/.en and http://www.fi.muni.cz/ 15:56:28 <quaid> so we don't have a bunch of people jumping up and down all excited about proceeding this way ... and all excited about taking tasks to work on/ 15:56:49 <quaid> but I do think we have enough to get started 15:58:23 <quaid> #agreed Brno University of Technology and Masaryk University are on the list 15:59:21 <quaid> ok, then 15:59:28 <quaid> from here we'll continue discussion on list 15:59:45 <quaid> I'll send out the log/summary in a few minutes 15:59:51 <quaid> anything before I close the meeting? 16:00:11 <quaid> #endmeeting