21:12:06 <smooge> #startmeeting EPEL meeting 2010-03-26
21:12:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Mar 26 21:12:06 2010 UTC.  The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:12:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:12:11 <smooge> ok here we go
21:12:17 <smooge> #topic roll call
21:12:22 * maxamillion is here
21:12:22 <smooge> smooge is here
21:12:28 <nirik> cool. You might do a '#meetingname epel' too
21:12:31 * nirik is here.
21:12:49 * hydh is here
21:13:06 <smooge> #meetingname EPEL (Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux)
21:13:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(extra_packages_for_enterprise_linux)'
21:13:12 * MerlinTHP here
21:13:21 <maxamillion> MerlinTHP: o hai :)
21:13:24 <MerlinTHP> j0
21:13:26 <smooge> hi guys.. sorry for my delay.. was trying to catch up on internal email
21:13:45 <smooge> #topic orders of business
21:13:52 <smooge> Meeting should be short and to the point.
21:14:11 <smooge> 1) jds2001 sent out an email to various SIGS for needs from engineering
21:14:22 <smooge> 2) RHEL-6 sometime before the next ice age
21:14:27 <smooge> 3) package conflicts
21:14:38 <smooge> 4) helping mspevack help us on th ewiki
21:14:44 <smooge> 5) Open Floor.
21:14:54 <smooge> 0) Old business
21:15:01 <smooge> anything else?
21:15:30 <nirik> I have updates on a few items... can do in open floor tho
21:15:37 <smooge> #topic Old Business
21:15:45 <smooge> Updates from the nirik and me
21:15:52 <smooge> you first while I search for an email from dgilmore
21:16:01 <nirik> sure... just a few random things:
21:16:26 <nirik> Xfce is still waiting on perl-Glib. Once that gets fixed I should be able to make better progress at getting it into epel finally.
21:16:42 <smooge> ok cool
21:16:46 <nirik> transmission in epel needs love. It was orphaned a while back and the current version we have has security issues.
21:17:01 <smooge> ouch what requires it
21:17:06 <nirik> If someone wants to take it over, talk with mether about it. Also, I am going to post more info to the mailing list.
21:17:18 <nirik> if no one claims it by next week, we should probibly just nuke it.
21:17:42 <nirik> I have been swamped this week and haven't yet reviewed python26.
21:17:47 <nirik> I hope I can this weekend. ;)
21:17:50 <nirik> thats all I had.
21:18:11 <maxamillion> nirik: transmission the torrent client?
21:18:28 <nirik> yeah
21:18:41 <nirik> oh ho...
21:18:46 <smooge> ok I can help on python26
21:18:56 <smooge> I need it for RHEL-39
21:19:14 <smooge> nirik anything else?
21:19:24 <nirik> stahnma took it over apparently. Need to bug him about fixing it. ;)
21:19:33 <maxamillion> nirik: I'll try to get around to doing some test builds for it in mock and see if there's anything wildly outstanding that would prevent me from taking it over
21:19:35 <nirik> nope. nothing else here.
21:19:42 <maxamillion> nirik: oh ok, nvm
21:20:35 <smooge> ok from last meeting which I was sure was last week, we had a list of things from Dennis Gilmore to answer:
21:21:12 <smooge> 1) adding some global options to EPEL builds to get rid of file providings
21:21:46 <smooge> Dennis said it should be easy to do, but wanted to wait on it. I think we would also have to do a rebuild to  clean up the repo
21:22:22 <nirik> what is this to fix?
21:22:24 <smooge> 2) perl-Net-Telnet is in both repos. He was going to block/remove it after a ticket was filed.
21:22:54 <smooge> nirik, basically the way builds are done means that every RPM will say it provides xyz even though they are not really provided
21:23:13 <nirik> huh. weird.
21:23:28 <smooge> so if you have something in a /usr/libexec/funkytown/libass.1.so everyone who wants libass will see it when you do a rpm --provides
21:23:44 <smooge> that was wholy inappropriate choice of library names
21:23:56 * MerlinTHP chuckles.
21:23:59 <nirik> does this really affect much tho?
21:24:54 <maxamillion> smooge: we appreciated the awesomeness factor though
21:25:18 <smooge> yeah.. some EL packages require things and EPEL's packages will replace the needed EL pakcage
21:25:25 <smooge> because NEVR is less.
21:26:30 <smooge> someone on the list pointed out that our problem was 'fixed' in later mocks with something like # Don't "provide" our private libs, or generate doc-file dependencies (and a bunch of %global afterwords)
21:28:06 <smooge> 3) repository redesigns (slipstream, etc). most of those are major undertakings and would require a lot of work. Would require a mandate etc to do it.
21:28:56 <smooge> 4) keeping more older copies of the older packages for people to roll back. not currently possible with mash.
21:29:06 <smooge> ok thats what I got from the email..
21:29:14 <smooge> nirik, did I answer your question?
21:29:23 <nirik> I think so, yeah.
21:31:00 <smooge> ok next topci
21:31:14 <smooge> #topic jds2001 sent out an email to various SIGS for needs from engineering
21:31:41 <smooge> ok jds2001 sent this to a couple of lists and blogged about it. I was wondering what we needed to help on this
21:32:15 <maxamillion> engineering? ... rel-eng?
21:32:26 <nirik> well, the goal here was this:
21:33:16 <nirik> Find out if various sigs are still active (which EPEL is). Get someone to mail a little update note monthly to the devel list with whats been going on and how to join up. Note if there are things that the sig could use that would help them with their area.
21:33:43 <nirik> so, what we need to do is get someone to do monthly updates, and also discuss if there are things we could use that would help us.
21:33:48 <smooge> ok cool. so we need to send a monthly email.
21:34:05 <nirik> yeah, nothing fancy or anything...
21:34:05 <smooge> I choose (spins a bottle)...
21:34:21 <smooge> ah crap me.
21:34:21 <nirik> something like https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIG_Update_Email_Template
21:34:44 <nirik> ha. ;)
21:34:45 <smooge> ok will send that out this weekend.
21:34:54 <maxamillion> smooge: you're the man
21:34:57 <smooge> (stupid kid spinner top)
21:35:08 <smooge> I had maxamillion on every other slot
21:35:13 <nirik> smooge: and set a calendar/alarm to do it every monthly or so)
21:35:26 <smooge> ok will do so after meeting
21:35:37 <nirik> so as far as stuff we could use: more maintainers?
21:35:39 <smooge> what is the #thing to say I am going to do that
21:35:54 <nirik> should be #action nick stuff to do
21:35:56 <smooge> #action Smooge will send a monthly email saying we need stuff
21:36:03 <smooge> #action smooge will send a monthly email saying we need stuff
21:36:14 <smooge> oh yeah #action doesn't echo
21:36:21 <smooge> confuses me
21:36:23 <nirik> yeah.
21:36:41 <maxamillion> smooge: I know! that happened to me on monday in the Fedora QA meeting
21:36:51 <maxamillion> I was confused as hel
21:36:57 <maxamillion> +l
21:37:03 <maxamillion> ok, what's next on the list?
21:37:06 <smooge> we need more maintainers, we need a list of packages people want to see in RHEL-6. we need to guidance on multipackage layout
21:37:19 <smooge> anything else?
21:37:34 <smooge> #topic 2) RHEL-6 sometime before the next ice age
21:37:50 <smooge> ok dgilmore put out an email on EL-6 and his plan of action
21:37:55 <nirik> hurray rhel6. ;)
21:38:08 <smooge> someday.. before I lose all my teeth hopefully
21:38:16 <maxamillion> yeah, I heard rumors of an internal Beta for RHEL6 ... very exciting
21:38:42 <smooge> there are no such rumours. any such rumours are propaganda made by enemies of the state
21:38:55 <maxamillion> lol
21:38:58 <hydh> hrhr
21:39:13 <MerlinTHP> dgilmore's plan all makes sense to me
21:39:17 <nirik> I note that mdomsch said we already have people hitting MM with rhel6 epel mirror requests. ;)
21:39:22 <nirik> yeah, same here.
21:39:38 <smooge> anyway, please read dennis's email and see how we can help as much as possible. I would like to get a set of EPEL packages ready as soon as EL-6beta is warm on the mirrors
21:39:53 <maxamillion> nirik: lol
21:39:54 <MerlinTHP> My only query about it is regarding rwmjones' email
21:40:05 <smooge> okie dokie
21:40:13 <MerlinTHP> He asked about us building kvm.
21:40:25 <nirik> I fear until/unless there is a centos6 beta ready it may be harder for many maintainers to test things.
21:40:25 <smooge> oooooh kernel stuff
21:40:27 <MerlinTHP> That has a kernel module component.  Are we allowing kernel modules?
21:40:28 <maxamillion> MerlinTHP: I thought kvm was already part of RHEL?
21:40:46 <smooge> I think we were, but haven't had any takers after the kmod came out
21:40:49 <maxamillion> no to kernel modules, we follow Fedora guidelines
21:41:00 <maxamillion> or at least I thought we did
21:41:01 <smooge> maxamillion, only for x86_64.. for the mythical ARM port no
21:41:02 <MerlinTHP> maxamillion: rwmjones asked about building software in RHEL6 for arches that RHEL doesn't build it for
21:41:13 <maxamillion> ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
21:41:18 <MerlinTHP> So KVM for !x86_64
21:41:21 <maxamillion> yeah, I read that email
21:41:37 <MerlinTHP> Sounds a bit dodgy to me in general, but I'm happy if other folks want to do it
21:41:44 <smooge> I think it would be something in the EPEL PPA
21:41:50 <MerlinTHP> I was more curious about the kmod aspect :)
21:41:54 <maxamillion> the mythical ARM port would be awesome ... buy me a smartbook and install RHEL6 on it ... all day battery life and RHEL6 awesomeness, would own face
21:42:33 <MerlinTHP> kmods should be a lot easier in EPEL, as we have the kabi to target and weak-modules support.
21:42:57 <nirik> EPEL doesn't allow kmods.
21:43:03 <MerlinTHP> Right-o
21:43:17 <smooge> nirik, I thought we changed that after kmod got into the EL-5.4 set
21:43:36 <nirik> we could revisit that policy, but as far as I know it's still the case.
21:43:42 <nirik> kmod? which kmod?
21:43:48 <nirik> perhaps you are thinking of fuse?
21:43:55 <smooge> ack
21:43:59 <smooge> yes I am thinking of fuse.
21:44:06 <MerlinTHP> OK, no kmods in EPEL :)
21:44:06 <smooge> I need more coffee
21:44:19 <smooge> no kmods and no inode's either
21:44:29 <smooge> hi inode0
21:44:36 <maxamillion> :P
21:44:39 <MerlinTHP> Right, so, we should probably point out the no-kmods to rwmjones.
21:44:59 <smooge> yes. it would require us to relook at ourselves... very deeply
21:45:00 <MerlinTHP> I'll knock out a reply to epel-devel
21:45:17 <smooge> which brings us to the next topic (if this one is played through?)
21:45:21 * nirik looks to see what rjones was looking for
21:45:36 <MerlinTHP> smooge: I'm done
21:45:37 <smooge> #topic 4) helping mspevack help us on the wiki
21:45:37 <mdomsch> if rhel6 beta is public, then contributors can get it too
21:45:55 <nirik> ah, kvm there is the userspace package.
21:46:07 <smooge> mdomsch, yes if it is public we all get to share the goodies. If it isn't.. well I don't us doing much
21:46:53 <mdomsch> nope
21:47:25 <MerlinTHP> We potentially could, but we'd have a pretty small audience.
21:47:37 <MerlinTHP> Anyway, wiki?
21:47:59 <smooge> yes
21:48:13 <smooge> this weeks MS project was cleanup of the EPEL wiki.
21:48:25 <smooge> I don't think anyone volunteered and I ran out of time to do stuff myself.
21:48:30 <maxamillion> nirik: there is?
21:48:58 <smooge> I am asking for some help on this.. maybe throw it all away, and put up the bare essentials.
21:49:02 <nirik> maxamillion: in el5
21:49:02 <maxamillion> this week was insane for me, I barely slept as it was
21:49:05 <maxamillion> nirik: ah
21:49:33 <nirik> smooge: I posted a blog post on it... basically I have looked at lots of those pages, but can't really see what to change, and will be willing to help anyone with info that wants to change them.
21:49:51 <nirik> so, if someone who wants to edit the wiki, but doesn't know anything about epel needs info, I am happy to help
21:50:00 <smooge> ok cool
21:50:04 <maxamillion> what exactly needs cleaning?
21:50:15 <smooge> maxamillion, the page hasn't been touched in a long time.
21:50:50 <maxamillion> smooge: nothing has really changed
21:51:04 <smooge> it probably needs some marketing magic. Does it talk too much, does it say what we do, etc
21:51:15 <nirik> http://spevack.livejournal.com/102377.html
21:51:17 <maxamillion> smooge: there were a couple changes made and those were reflected on the wiki after a meeting where we hashed out some stuff ...
21:51:26 <maxamillion> smooge: ah, yeah ... I see what you mean
21:52:10 <inode0> I could poke someone like threethirty who might enjoy doing that
21:52:26 <maxamillion> inode0: that'd be awesome
21:52:27 <smooge> its like a committee of engineers came up with a wiki page to describe something they wanted to do
21:52:36 <inode0> who dabbles in marketing and likes small projects
21:53:08 <smooge> I want something stylish.. something oooooow more than used car salesman that I would do
21:53:16 <smooge> inode0, sounds great
21:53:28 <inode0> well, don't get your hopes too high
21:53:30 <smooge> #action inode0 will ask threethirty to help us on that.
21:53:40 <smooge> there I set my expectations about right :)
21:53:56 <smooge> ok anything else?
21:54:15 <smooge> #topic Open Floor
21:54:24 <smooge> ok 6 minutes to go til the buzzer
21:54:31 <maxamillion> lol
21:54:34 <maxamillion> go go go!!!
21:54:43 <jokajak> fuse-encfs hitting epel this week, woot
21:54:54 <smooge> cool. congrats jokajak
21:55:04 <inode0> rhel betas are never really public ... if that was a question back there
21:55:24 <maxamillion> they are public-esque
21:55:36 <inode0> they are customer only
21:55:38 <MerlinTHP> Historically, the initial beta is public.
21:55:41 <smooge> inode0, beta's for the .0's have been public
21:55:49 <smooge> 4.0 beta, 5.0 beta,
21:55:53 <MerlinTHP> Update betas aren't.
21:55:57 <MerlinTHP> What smooge said.
21:56:06 * inode0 thinks they are customer only, not public
21:56:13 <smooge> nope on ftp.redhat.com
21:56:24 <rwmjones> MerlinTHP, no idea about whether the kmod will be in !x86_64 or not ...
21:56:25 <maxamillion> smooge: really?
21:56:28 <inode0> hrm, ok, maybe I never noticed
21:56:33 <maxamillion> impressive
21:56:37 <maxamillion> +1 RH
21:56:44 <smooge> inode0, when I was with CentOS we only took stuff that was on ftp.redhat.com and thats how we got the beta code for 4.0 and 5.0
21:57:11 <MerlinTHP> I ran the RHEL5.0 beta, got it from ftp.redhat.com
21:57:26 <nirik> thats srpms tho, right? not isos, etc.
21:57:47 <MerlinTHP> rwmjones: OK, just be aware that if it isn't, EPEL won't (currently) build it
21:58:01 <MerlinTHP> rwmjones: so it may be that KVM is of limited utility in EPEL.
21:58:13 <rwmjones> right, ok ... (not my problem really :-)
21:58:17 * MerlinTHP grins.
21:59:46 * nirik has nothing else for meeting.
21:59:48 <MerlinTHP> I've just double-checked my email archive.  The RHEL5.0 beta was public.  The ISOs were on ftp.redhat.com.
21:59:50 <smooge> nirik, no it was bootable ISOs and stuff. kbsingh  used that to build enough to recompiled CentOS beta
21:59:57 <maxamillion> MerlinTHP: nice
21:59:59 <nirik> cool. I don't remember that...
22:00:18 <smooge> anyway.. that was 2+ years ago back when many were still in high school
22:00:31 <MerlinTHP> Yeah, it's all academic right now.
22:00:31 <maxamillion> lol
22:00:42 <MerlinTHP> RH might do stuff differently this time.
22:00:43 <maxamillion> ok, that's the buzzer ... any more business?
22:00:48 <MerlinTHP> Not from me.
22:00:53 <smooge> ok anyway, if it happens, it happens. if not #endmeeting
22:00:58 <smooge> #endmeeting