15:00:19 #startmeeting BugZappers meeting 2010-03-30 15:00:19 Meeting started Tue Mar 30 15:00:19 2010 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:20 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:28 #topic roll call 15:00:31 * Tech33 is here 15:00:33 morning everyone...who's here? 15:02:13 ...bueller? 15:02:27 oh come on, there are more people here than adam and me :) 15:02:46 * etank is here 15:03:00 mcepl: oy 15:03:36 hmm, ok, I move to adjourn the meeting until people give a darn :p 15:03:54 hoy 15:04:13 so, four people who give a damn 15:04:14 * SMParrish here' 15:04:17 that's enough for a short meeting 15:04:21 ooh, 5! we're steaming 15:04:37 * mbuf is here 15:04:56 waltJ_: would be here except he said he has a conflct 15:05:02 alright, we have a short agenda today. my normal reminder: if you want to discuss something at the meeting, you can add it to the list at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers:meeting-agenda-list 15:05:09 any time during the week 15:05:14 it'll get picked up for the meeting agenda. 15:05:16 okay 15:05:19 #topic follow-up 15:05:42 there's only one thing for follow-up from last week's meeting: adamw to test btrfs-progs installation when creating a btrfs partition in installer 15:06:01 follow-up is simple - i didn't need to test, in the end, as anaconda team reproduced and realized where the bug was and fixed it. 15:06:05 so, ponies 15:06:24 anyone have any other concerns arising out of last week's meeting? 15:07:49 alrighty then, moving on 15:07:51 -1 15:07:51 #topic open floor 15:08:04 * mcepl observes this to be really short meeting ;) 15:08:06 ...and that's as far as we have to move :) no other business, so let's open it up 15:08:21 who'd like to discuss something related to bugzappers? or, y'know, their aching back? we've got the time 15:08:25 ? 15:08:37 mbuf: told you it was a short agenda :) 15:08:37 is it possible that we could have a class for new zappers? 15:08:54 adamw, I have couple of questions 15:09:08 etank: possible, yup. good idea, probably. someone would have to want to organize and run it, though 15:09:11 I was going to press for a series of short (5-10 min) 'classes' on various topics for bz'ers, but if attendance is low it might not be worth the time/effort 15:09:17 mbuf: after etank's idea 15:09:20 a simple walk through with some real life examples 15:09:23 #topic classes for bugzappers 15:09:51 etank: we sometimes do something much like that, but informal, for new zappers who come to the chan and ask for help 15:09:52 adamw: if somebody else organize it, I am willing to answer any questions anybody asks 15:09:57 so yeah, it's certainly possible 15:09:58 ouch sorry, etank hit it first 15:10:06 Tech33: great minds think alike :) 15:10:23 I have a couple ideas for mayyyybe three classes 15:10:50 i have looked through the "components and triagers" page and nothing really jumped out at me. what is a good area for new people to jump in on? 15:10:52 and I'm (god I hate volunteering) am willing to make a script for them 15:10:54 we could perhaps make it flexible - each time we hit, say, 5 new bugzappers since the last class, ask those 5 if they'd like to attend a class? just thinking out loud. 15:11:11 etank: we're talking about your first idea still :) we can answer that in a bit 15:11:25 adamw, etank question was my first question; but, just instead of an IRC discussion with logs, would it be possible to make a screencast that we can refer newbies to, in getting them introduced to bug zapping, or atleast using bugzilla? 15:11:29 adamw: that was kind of related to the first question actually 15:11:45 mbuf: again, certainly possible 15:11:54 it's worth noting there's an Official Fedora Thing for running classes 15:12:04 where 15:12:07 #url http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Classroom 15:12:15 there may be resources for recording associated with that 15:12:27 adamw, I see this here, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers; for each of the tools and procedures if a screencast could be made, it would be extremely helpful; 15:13:01 +1 ... and again if somebody organizes I am willing to give a tutorial about my scripts 15:13:07 adamw, or if experienced bug zappers atleast do a recording of one of the bugs that they have handled or solved, it will be awesome 15:13:11 mbuf: like an example to go with the walk-through instructions? that's another good idea - doesn't necessarily need to go along with the class idea 15:13:21 adamw, exactly 15:13:36 okay, let me note that down so we don't lose it 15:13:54 #idea mbuf suggests recording screencasts to go along with the wiki instructions 15:14:09 adamw, I try to work with students, and I feel bug zapping is a good way for them to get started with the Fedora project 15:14:09 * etank needs a way to find the "low hanging fruit" to get his feet wet 15:14:25 so i think both of those are certainly good ideas if anyone's willing to give them a push...i'm not sure i can commit to it right now, my todo list is growing :/ 15:14:36 mbuf: it certainly can be, yes 15:14:52 anyone here willing to take point on either of those ideas? if not, we can forward them to the list and see... 15:16:11 I don't know about screencasts, but I'd like to do an IRC class, so I'll read up the page and maybe offer up a class 15:16:37 an hour is a long time, but maybe not once I get going 15:17:09 you can always adjust the length to suit, but i suspect it would actually take that long 15:17:15 but if I would do anything, I need somebody asking questions 15:17:27 irc classes are always welcome 15:17:58 Southern_Gentlem, indeed; these sessions can always be used to clarify answers from newbies 15:18:10 mcepl: i bet that once the class is started with a few examples that the questions will start flowing 15:19:23 #action tech33 to look into running a test class 15:19:51 i'll throw the screencast idea to the list to see if anyone would be interested in doing it 15:20:00 #action adamw to pass on the screencast idea to the mailing list 15:20:20 anything else on that topic? 15:21:37 alright then 15:21:42 mbuf: what was your second question? 15:22:10 if one has to test bugs or reproduce them on different distro releases, what is the recommended virtual machine to be used in Fedora? 15:22:28 *distro releases (F-11, F-12, F-13, rawhide etc.) 15:23:07 in other words, is there a minimal raw image that can be used as a virtual machine, and only relevant software required to reproduce the bug be installed? 15:23:14 #topic what VM is recommended for Fedora 15:23:16 *on a virtual machine 15:23:18 mbuf: the fedora virt stack is what i'd usually suggest 15:23:30 that's qemu/kvm/libvirt/virt-manager/ponies 15:23:37 adamw, I see 15:23:46 basically run virt-manager and use that. it's pretty easy-to-use these days 15:24:05 adamw, thanks! 15:24:09 it's available from the repositories (unlike vmware/virtualbox) and it gets quicker support from the devs than they do. 15:24:32 there isn't an official minimal image; i'd just work from the desktop live image for most testing 15:24:58 you can install from the network install image and do a minimal install if you like, but minimal install is *really* minimal. you get a console and yum and not much else 15:25:05 iirc you have to be careful though because the default is to place the virtual machine disk images in /var 15:25:22 personally, I go a different route, but that's just me 15:25:23 this could fill up / pretty easily if /var is not on its own partition 15:25:59 ok, will remember that 15:27:02 #agreed the standard virt stack for fedora is kvm/qemu/libvirt/virt-manager , but virtualbox is available from rpmfusion or upstream, and vmware from upstream, and they usually work on fedora, more or less. 15:27:28 I use kvm, but I guess it doesn't matter ... there is a minimal installation option for Anaconda 15:27:42 as a comment, I use virtualbox and put my images on a terabyte external drive, and use its snapshots feature extensively 15:28:25 of course, kvm/libvirt can use images anywhere 15:28:58 (if appropriate SELinux are applied; virtualbox doesn't even know about SElinux, so it is hardly kvm's fault ;)) 15:30:00 ok 15:30:07 EOF 15:30:19 alrighty...i think etank also wanted some advice for what package to start zapping 15:30:31 yup 15:30:40 Tech33: how is your situation with Gecko-related packages and ABRT? 15:31:40 I could still use some assistance there, I just don't have enough time to keep up with it, as it is high bandwidth ( alot of bugs) 15:32:06 etank: if you're willing to dig into firefox bugs, tech33 needs help and could give you some instructions to get started (right tech33?) 15:32:35 I'd like to spend time with noveau again, but am overwhelmed just keeping up with firefox and company 15:32:50 yes 15:32:58 i was looking at the firefox bugs earlier. seems to be a lot of dupes there 15:33:18 yes, that's exactly where our help is needed 15:33:23 Tech33: i keep meaning to go through the nouveau list, never got to it yet :) 15:33:26 if etank is willing, I can get with him at his convenience, as long as we're not completly opposite time zones 15:33:51 and of course, if you have any questions about gecko-bugs, feel free to contact me ... gecko & spol. are (among other things) my job at Red Hat. 15:33:55 Tech33: i am good with that. i am in EDT tz 15:33:57 etank: right, abrt files a lot of firefox bugs (because lots of people use it all the time...) and its dupe detection isn't perfect, so we definitely need help weeding out those bugs 15:34:04 11:33am here 15:34:16 #action mcepl and tech33 to help etank get started working on the firefox bug mountain 15:34:35 as am i, so I'll try and schedule some time with you 15:34:41 ok 15:35:01 thanks a lot tech33 15:35:21 * Tech33 nods 15:37:18 so, any other topics? 15:37:25 Tech33: thanks 15:39:47 if not, will close the meeting soon... 15:41:26 I'm good 15:41:34 close away :) 15:41:39 we'll be the judges o' that! ;) 15:41:49 heh 15:42:17 alright, thanks for coming everyone 15:42:30 remember, agenda list is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers:meeting-agenda-list 15:42:36 for next week :) 15:42:38 #endmeeting