14:01:55 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2010-05-25
14:01:55 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 25 14:01:55 2010 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:02:10 <rdieter> #chair Kevin_Kofler jreznik SMParrish_mobile than
14:02:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler SMParrish_mobile jreznik rdieter than
14:02:14 <rdieter> #topic roll call
14:02:18 <rdieter> who's present today?
14:02:20 <Kevin_Kofler> Present.
14:02:21 * jreznik is here
14:02:31 <than> present
14:03:47 <rdieter> #info Kevin_Kofler jreznik than present for meeting
14:03:55 <rdieter> #topic agenda
14:04:14 <rdieter> agenda topics ?  (otherwise, this will be pretty short)
14:04:19 <Kevin_Kofler> KDE SC 4.4.3
14:04:20 <rdieter> kde-4.4.3 I suppose
14:04:22 <rdieter> yeah
14:04:55 <rdieter> KDE SC 4.5 beta1 status
14:05:33 <kalev> does KDE 4.5 need Qt 4.7?
14:05:35 * SMParrish_mobile here
14:05:39 <rdieter> kalev: on
14:05:45 <rdieter> kalev: um, no. :)
14:06:02 <rdieter> #info SMParrish_mobile present too
14:06:21 <rdieter> kalev: I think qt-4.6 is min requirement
14:06:35 <rdieter> ok, let's move on
14:06:44 <rdieter> #topic KDE 4.5 beta1 status
14:07:04 <rdieter> let's get this out of the way.  jreznik and I have been banging on this over the past few days
14:07:33 <rdieter> the usual suspect, kdebindings , is still a problem
14:07:47 <than> rdieter:  and the rest?
14:07:49 <rdieter> and we haven't tried kde-l10n yet, not sure if it's even worth it at this point
14:07:53 <rdieter> the rest is done
14:08:17 <ltinkl> ...which is already quite good, kdebindings is usually a problem :)
14:08:21 <rdieter> and, I did f13 builds for kde-redhat last night
14:08:40 <than> does it build against 4.6?
14:08:44 <jreznik> rdieter: ah, kde-l10n is available now - I can try it
14:09:23 <jreznik> than: it should, without patch it does not build with current qt 4.7
14:09:24 <rdieter> than: it = kdebindings?  no.  though, it fails in different ways in rawhide with qt47 and when I tried doing f13 builds against qt-4.6.2
14:09:41 <jreznik> ah, it=kdebindings :D
14:09:58 <than> it=kdebindings ;-)
14:10:47 <than> ok isaw your report about this issue in kde mailling list
14:11:14 <rdieter> ok, that's all I have.  anything else?
14:12:00 <than> move on please
14:13:23 <rdieter> #topic KDE SC 4.4.3
14:13:51 <Kevin_Kofler> I think this is ready for stable now, but the update info is bad.
14:13:55 <than> is our KDE-4.4.3 well tested?
14:14:13 <Kevin_Kofler> 1. No reference to security fixes which are included in the update!
14:14:19 <Kevin_Kofler> The update should be marked security and have the CVE links.
14:14:23 <Kevin_Kofler> - security fixes: CVE-2010-1000, CVE-2010-1511 (#591966)
14:14:30 <Kevin_Kofler> 2. No link to the upstream release announcement.
14:14:37 <zodbot> Announcement from my owner (stickster): Happy Fedora 13 Release Day! http://ur1.ca/03bfg -- to download: http://ur1.ca/03ajw
14:14:39 <Kevin_Kofler> 3. Bugzilla references are missing. At least #591079 (the KPPP issue).
14:14:42 <than> Kevin_Kofler: yes, we have to update the infos
14:15:01 <than> Kevin_Kofler: do you want to take care of it?
14:16:01 <Kevin_Kofler> I can do it, yes.
14:16:09 <than> Kevin_Kofler: great, thanks
14:17:14 <Kevin_Kofler> Are there any last-minute changes you want me to edit in?
14:17:20 <Kevin_Kofler> After all I need to edit the updates anyway.
14:17:43 * rdieter can't think of anything
14:18:34 <than> Kevin_Kofler: if i remember correctly there's no last-minute changes
14:19:28 <than> is it ok with you to push 4.4.3 to stable after infos updated?
14:19:59 <than> i don't see any problem from my side
14:20:08 <rdieter> should be, though we'll find out
14:20:11 <Kevin_Kofler> Yeah, I don't see anything urgent enough to warrant pushing to stable with no testing.
14:20:21 <Kevin_Kofler> We'll want to get the WPAD proxy discovery stuff out eventually.
14:20:30 <Kevin_Kofler> But not rush it into the update.
14:20:45 <rdieter> agreed
14:21:02 <rdieter> #topic open discussion
14:21:11 <rdieter> anything else for today?
14:21:54 <rdieter> we had an idea earlier in #feodra-kde to consider adding Provides: <app> to monolithic packages
14:22:14 <rdieter> ie, for kdeutils, adding Provides: ark okteta , etc...
14:23:02 <than> rdieter: it's for old fedora release which we don't want to support
14:23:08 <rdieter> could ease a transition for split packages, when/if we ever do that
14:23:12 <than> i will say we should drop it
14:23:38 <rdieter> and make apps a little more discoverable
14:23:38 <Kevin_Kofler> than: That's not the motivation.
14:23:54 <Kevin_Kofler> In some cases it's how it got added (for stuff like okteta which used to be separate).
14:24:05 <rdieter> some folks seem to expect:  yum install ark   to work or do something, for example
14:25:30 <rdieter> depends on how serious the proposed soc netbook/pkg-split project is going, perhaps.
14:25:48 <rdieter> any news or proposals coming from that yet?
14:26:56 <rdieter> jreznik: ? ^^
14:27:29 <jreznik> rdieter: fsc is starting soon
14:27:55 <rdieter> ok, so I take it that means work hasn't started yet. :)
14:28:17 <jreznik> it's great when yum install ark works, I usually try yum search arch first
14:28:37 <jreznik> rdieter: yep, we have nothing now
14:28:58 <rdieter> ok
14:29:55 <rdieter> maybe we can continue to consider adding Provides on a case-by-case basis, e.g., if there's ever something that Requires a particular app
14:30:30 <jreznik> +1 for case-by-case
14:30:55 <rdieter> if there's nothing else, let's adjourn for some f13-release celebrating
14:30:56 <thomasj_> In #fedora we had lots of questions like "what provides foo". I think it's a good idea to add provides.
14:31:07 <than> Kevin_Kofler: generally i prefer to keep our specfiles as clean as possible
14:31:36 <than> and drop stuff which don't really make sense
14:32:06 <rdieter> thomasj_: alright, perhaps another criteria is if it is a highly visible app, like konqueror, kmail, kopete
14:32:21 <thomasj_> And i personally would love to have something like "yum install kate" working due to provides.
14:32:34 <thomasj_> rdieter, yep
14:32:47 <rdieter> though honestly, if we're going that route already, we may as well do all of them
14:33:13 <thomasj_> Sounds good to me, but you guys have to do the work :) My packages are small
14:33:15 <rdieter> kate is another one folks have trouble finding, esp since it moved to kdesdk
14:33:24 <thomasj_> yep
14:33:51 <jreznik> kate is indeed top consumer
14:34:37 * thomasj_ is for doing all, it will not hurt, but helps a lot
14:34:46 <rdieter> my feeling is that the justifications are probably sufficient, we just need to formulate a plan on how best to implement it.
14:35:01 <Kevin_Kofler> BTW, interestingly, Kubuntu seems to install Kate by default instead of KWrite.
14:35:18 <Kevin_Kofler> At least our installations at the university do that, I'm not sure if it's a customization by the university or Kubuntu default.
14:35:38 <jreznik> kwrite should be default
14:35:53 <jreznik> for more complex tasks I explicitely run kate
14:36:01 <thomasj_> kwrite seems to be the better default choice for end users.
14:36:21 <jreznik> another question is - lot of distros are going to ship rekonq as default browser
14:36:42 <Kevin_Kofler> A browser without a menu bar? No thanks!
14:36:44 <jreznik> "Now only Fedora 14 KDE and openSUSE 12.0 need to follow."
14:36:49 <Kevin_Kofler> We should follow upstream's default!
14:37:02 <jreznik> http://kamikazow.wordpress.com/2010/05/23/kdes-webkit-browser-rekonq-gets-extension-support/
14:37:06 <Kevin_Kofler> And hope that upstream will continue enforcing their HIGs.
14:37:17 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: you know - I prefer desktop with hidden menus by default :)
14:37:22 <rdieter> yeah, the writing has been on the wall for awhile now.  qtwebkit > khtml , and the gap is widening
14:37:37 <thomasj_> webkit is still without java support and has some problems with it currently
14:37:48 <rdieter> though perhaps a safer course would be to use konq/kdewebkit
14:37:48 <Kevin_Kofler> KHTML is better!
14:37:54 <Kevin_Kofler> It uses native widgets, for example.
14:38:22 <ltinkl> that's about the only advantage :)
14:38:24 <rdieter> the # of sites that work sub-optimally with khtml is only growing, I'm afraid
14:38:34 <ltinkl> it fails miserably at rendering most modern sites
14:38:41 <rdieter> but it's definitely not a decision to be made now
14:38:50 <thomasj_> +1
14:39:03 <ltinkl> let's see how rekonq improves
14:39:09 <ltinkl> and decide later
14:39:19 <Kevin_Kofler> It's upstream's decision to make.
14:39:25 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: indeed.
14:39:31 <Kevin_Kofler> And Konqueror is really the best browser out there.
14:39:32 <than> yes,  we should follow upstream
14:39:38 <Kevin_Kofler> Rekonq is missing many of its features.
14:39:40 <ltinkl> we should, but dont have to
14:39:44 <Kevin_Kofler> That's why it gets away with no menu bar.
14:39:58 <Kevin_Kofler> It has nowhere near Konqueror's features.
14:40:04 <than> rekonq is not good enuogh for default
14:40:05 <jreznik> konqueror and rekonq have different target audience
14:40:06 <rdieter> that's why I like konq/kdewebkit option  :)
14:40:20 <ltinkl> that is an option too :)
14:40:29 <jreznik> but chrome extensions support looks nice
14:40:31 <than> i see konq/kdewebkit is the best option
14:40:37 <thomasj_> +1
14:40:38 <rdieter> it's similar to our current situation shipping both xine/gstreamer phonon backends
14:41:34 <jreznik> it's not a question now - let's celebrate f13 :)
14:41:48 <rdieter> yes!
14:41:48 <thomasj_> Reminds me to poke Darren what's with the next xine-lib release..
14:41:53 <rdieter> #topic celebrate f13!
14:42:46 <ltinkl> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_announcement
14:42:52 <ltinkl> KDE gets mentioned :)
14:42:55 <Kevin_Kofler> In parts of Italy, 13 is the lucky number (in others it's unlucky like in most of the world). :-)
14:43:02 <Kevin_Kofler> Let's hope that for us 13 will be lucky. :-)
14:43:25 <than> i want to thanks to all KDE-SIG members who made the best KDE-4 for F13!
14:44:00 <ltinkl> indeed, thanks everyone who even contributed one single bug report
14:44:58 <thomasj_> Thanks to you guys who had the major work
14:45:14 <Oxf13> Kevin_Kofler: it's only unlucky if you're a member of the Knights Templar.
14:46:22 <ltinkl> SMParrish_mobile: joining to celebrate? :)
14:47:10 * than is downloading f13 iso image
14:47:16 <SMParrish_mobile> Yes. Wishing I could open a beer but work frowns on that.  Lol
14:49:24 * rdieter is working @ home today (bum knee), sounds like a good idea.
14:49:51 <rdieter> well, let's wrap up, I don't think there's any meeting-stuff left for today.
14:49:53 <rdieter> thanks everyone!
14:49:56 <rdieter> #endmeeting