23:00:11 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
23:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun  2 23:00:11 2010 UTC.  The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
23:00:18 <Sparks> #meetingname Fedora Docs
23:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
23:00:25 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
23:00:35 * Sparks is here
23:00:35 * rudi is here
23:02:19 * ke4qqq is here
23:02:36 * Sparks updates the agenda
23:04:20 * Sparks wonders where everyone is
23:04:36 * ianweller is here, but never has much to talk about :)
23:04:45 <Sparks> quaid stickster_afk: Ping
23:04:49 <Sparks> ianweller: How's Raleigh?
23:04:51 <ke4qqq> ianweller: I thought you were there already :)
23:05:37 <ianweller> Sparks: wet
23:05:43 <Sparks> heh
23:05:51 <Sparks> Okay, lets get started
23:06:04 <Sparks> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
23:06:27 <Sparks> None of the action items from last week are due this week.
23:06:39 <Sparks> #topic F13 Release, What went right and what went wrong.
23:06:57 <Sparks> Last week we discussed what went right and what went wrong during the release.
23:07:08 <Sparks> Does anyone else have anything they'd like to discuss?
23:07:46 <Sparks> Okay, moving on
23:07:54 <Sparks> #topic Schedule for F13 for F14
23:08:16 <Sparks> I think we agreed last week that the F13 schedule went pretty well.
23:08:23 <nb> oh
23:08:25 * nb is here
23:08:29 <Sparks> Anyone have any comments?
23:08:55 * radsy .
23:09:03 <Sparks> We'll be revisiting this next month.
23:09:10 <Sparks> Moving on...
23:09:14 <Sparks> Welcome nb and radsy
23:09:24 <Sparks> #topic doc-publican-rpm Tool
23:09:31 <Sparks> Okay, I just added this to the agenda.
23:10:05 <Sparks> If you don't know, jjmcd wrote a tool that creates the multi-language rpms using the html output from Publican
23:10:17 <Sparks> speak of the devil
23:10:23 * jjmcd is finally here, not watching the clock
23:10:29 <Sparks> :)
23:11:17 <Sparks> Because it's being used to create some of our RPMs this tool should packaged.
23:11:31 <Sparks> jjmcd: What needs to happen to get your tool packaged?
23:11:34 <jjmcd> that is the intent
23:11:45 <Sparks> I think we have some folks that can help you with the review and what not.
23:11:46 <ke4qqq> is it already hosted somewhere?
23:12:07 <jjmcd> Sparks, two things; there are a couple details I want to clean up, and I want to wait for the icons to be in fedora-logos
23:12:27 <rudi> On a slight tangent, this tool might help with some structural problems in the Security Guide and Accessibilty Guide, so +1 :)
23:12:31 <jjmcd> David, http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=docs-tools.git
23:13:16 <Sparks> jjmcd: Details meaning code?
23:13:52 <jjmcd> Yes, we got a long list of bugs in RNs a while back.  I think I have most of those taken care of, but I want to comb through all of them to be sure
23:14:10 <Sparks> ok
23:15:08 <Sparks> Is there a deadline we can put on this for it to be submitted for review?
23:15:32 <jjmcd> I don't know what spot's timeline is, I'm assuming not long
23:15:43 <jjmcd> but I never asked him explicitly
23:16:09 <jjmcd> For now why don't we target Bastille Day that seems reasonable
23:16:10 <Sparks> spot's timeline?
23:16:19 <jjmcd> owner of fedora-logos
23:16:21 <Sparks> Oh
23:16:36 <Sparks> so 14 July?
23:16:50 <jjmcd> He made it sound quick but that was pre-release, and I didn't ask him specific times
23:17:02 <jjmcd> Yes, let's say that.  I'll be gone half June
23:17:05 <Sparks> ok
23:17:16 <ke4qqq> might be worth a reminder - release clouds everythin
23:17:17 <ke4qqq> g
23:17:32 <Sparks> #action jjmcd to have doc-publican-rpm packaged and submitted for review by 14 July
23:17:44 <jjmcd> That is actually on my to-do coming up within the enxt few days
23:17:54 <Sparks> #info Waiting on spot's work on fedora-logos
23:18:33 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on this?
23:18:46 <nb> since jjmcd is already a packager, anyone can review it (any other packager, so me, rlandmann, sparks, ke4qqq)
23:19:08 * Sparks isn't comfortable with reviewing it...
23:19:09 <nb> FYI if anyone wants to package a new doc or something, feel free to ping me, as of this morning I am a sponsor
23:19:20 <Sparks> congrats!
23:19:21 <jjmcd> Spot agreed to review it
23:19:25 <ke4qqq> nb: congrats
23:19:26 <nb> jjmcd, oh ok
23:19:31 <jjmcd> hey, congrats nb
23:19:49 <jjmcd> offerred even
23:19:52 <nb> thanks
23:20:07 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
23:20:23 <Sparks> #topic CMS
23:20:46 <Sparks> #info CMS == Content Management System
23:21:06 <Sparks> Okay, so we've been trying to stand up Zikula as our CMS solution...
23:21:21 <Sparks> but now we have Publican generating the front-end for docs.fp.o
23:21:37 <Sparks> So my question is...  do we still need to be working on Zikula for docs.fp.o?
23:22:02 <ke4qqq> is there anything missing from publican that zikula provides that we can't live without?
23:22:19 * Sparks isn't sure
23:22:34 * ke4qqq is happy with publican, but I haven't done any work, just looked at shiny
23:22:38 <ke4qqq> rudi: ??
23:22:43 <nb> rudi, did you get a chance to talk to jeff yet about what it would take to use koji for docs?
23:22:46 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Publican doesn't provide a text (web) editor.
23:22:52 <Sparks> But I don't know that we need one.
23:22:55 <rudi> Nothing that I'm aware of
23:23:12 <rudi> nb -- sorry, I'm bogged down right now; I'll be having that conversation soon
23:23:17 <nb> rudi, ok
23:23:29 <ke4qqq> could we actually use a web-based text editor?? I mean would changes get committed to git/$versioncontrol
23:23:30 * nb wonders what tells publican what tag to build to
23:24:07 <rudi> The outcome of that conversation will also help us with issues around presenting English docs on translated tables of contents... we're getting there
23:24:37 <Sparks> rudi: Will you have enough time to come back next week with answers to those questions?
23:24:52 <nb> is jeff jfearn?
23:24:56 <rudi> Sparks -- I'll make sure that I do
23:24:59 <rudi> nb -- yes he is
23:25:06 * nb could email him too if that helps
23:25:16 <nb> but if he is where rudi can actually talk to him that'd be quicker probably
23:25:44 <rudi> nb -- yeah, I also want to talk to one of the sysadmins here who has implemented exactly the same system internally for RH
23:25:52 <nb> ok
23:25:59 <nb> do they use koji?
23:26:09 <nb> although i guess we should discuss this outside of the meeting
23:26:13 <nb> and not take up everyones time :)
23:26:14 <Sparks> #action rudi to talk with Jeff (jfearn) about using Koji with Publican and English docs on translated ToC.
23:26:18 <rudi> brew, its close relative
23:26:19 <Sparks> #undo
23:26:19 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x26284a50>
23:26:36 <Sparks> #action rudi to talk with Jeff (jfearn) about using Koji with Publican and English docs on translated ToC and bring responses to the 09 June meeting.
23:27:53 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on the CMS?
23:28:13 * ke4qqq proposes we push this to the docs list
23:28:25 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Agreed
23:28:26 <ke4qqq> prolly too large a decision to be made in a single irc meeting
23:28:46 <Sparks> #info Further discussion on the CMS will be on the docs list.
23:28:51 <Sparks> Anything else?
23:29:06 <Sparks> #action Sparks to move the CMS discussion to the docs list
23:29:13 <Sparks> Okay, moving on
23:29:17 <Sparks> #topic Release Notes
23:29:47 <Sparks> jjmcd: I opened a ticket with the Chinese translators to translate that bug we received a couple of days ago.
23:29:54 * Sparks assumes you saw that.
23:29:59 <jjmcd> Not much to report.  Yeah, I saw that
23:30:29 <jjmcd> Perhaps we can figure out what it meant
23:31:01 <jjmcd> Otherwise, bugzilla has been pretty lean
23:32:27 <Sparks> jjmcd: I ran it through Google translations and... well...  I'd like to see what a translator has to say.
23:32:47 <jjmcd> I didn't try that - did it make any sense at all?
23:32:53 <Sparks> kinda
23:33:10 <Sparks> You can do it but I didn't feel right about pasting that text into the BZ ticket.
23:33:14 <Sparks> FOSS and all
23:33:49 <jjmcd> I see where rudi updated the fc1-f9 branches
23:33:53 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on the RNs?
23:33:59 <Sparks> really?
23:34:09 <Sparks> rudi: You updated the fc1-9 branches?
23:34:17 <rudi> Yeah; still working on it though
23:34:19 <Sparks> Were you bored or something?
23:34:22 <rudi> A couple more langs to do
23:34:32 <Sparks> heh
23:34:32 <rudi> Sorry, a couple more docs to do
23:34:52 <Sparks> Okay, anything else before we move on?
23:34:59 <rudi> More that I want docs.fp.o to be the gold standard of Publican-driven docs publishing :)
23:35:17 <Sparks> #topic Guide Status
23:35:29 <Sparks> rudi: So tell everyone what you are doing.
23:36:05 <rudi> Basically, just regenerating all of the old guides to integrate them into the Publican-driven site
23:36:18 <rudi> I hope to be able to deprecate the "archives" subsite too soon
23:36:24 <Sparks> So it will really be one-stop shopping
23:36:27 <rudi> Yeah
23:36:40 <jjmcd> way cool
23:36:51 <rudi> But I think we also need to have f10 and earlier grouped under an "obsolete" heading or something
23:37:12 <Sparks> Isn't it obvious?
23:37:16 <rudi> At the moment, there's too much potential for confusion
23:37:20 <Sparks> ok
23:37:35 <rudi> Well, there are still people *in RH* who don't know the difference between Fedora and Fedora Core :)
23:37:43 <Sparks> wow
23:37:53 * jjmcd still has an FC4 box
23:38:02 <rudi> "Do I want Fedora 13, or maybe this new Fedora Core 6?"
23:38:19 <Sparks> rudi: Should we hold a class for them?
23:38:23 <rudi> (Which is of course, the newest version on the "Fedora Core" menu) lolz
23:38:27 <rudi> Sparks -- I wish! :)
23:38:42 <Sparks> FCA
23:38:50 <nb> rudi, let me know if you do much removing
23:38:55 <Sparks> Fedora Core Anonymous
23:38:56 <nb> because i'll need to run a rsync with --delete
23:39:48 <rudi> nb -- thanks; I'll need that in another week or so
23:40:00 <rudi> One question --
23:40:14 <rudi> are we all in agreement that we should continue to make legacy docs available on the site?
23:40:35 <Sparks> rudi: I wouldn't make it a priority but I think it would be neat to see them all up there.
23:40:48 <Sparks> I'm all for displaying people's work.
23:41:22 <rudi> I (obviously) agree :)
23:42:05 <rudi> I think that d.fp.o serves a purpose for the docs and l10n communities beyond its primary mission of delivering content to users
23:43:43 <Sparks> Yes
23:44:11 <Sparks> It's the refrigerator gallery for Docs and L10N
23:44:16 <Sparks> :)
23:44:37 <jjmcd> There are a lot of FC6 and F8 systems still out ther
23:45:02 <Sparks> Yep.  And people should be able to find pertinent documentation on those systems.
23:45:13 <rudi> OK -- just wanted a reality check from you guys that this wasn't a waste of time, space, and bandwidth :)
23:45:27 <Sparks> They exist and I think a disservice would be done to those that wrote the documents to not make it available.
23:45:39 <Sparks> rudi: I don't think it's a waste
23:45:59 <rudi> Case closed :)
23:46:00 <rudi> Thanks
23:46:16 <jjmcd> WE might think about a nice article to one of the mags
23:46:27 <jjmcd> about the new doc site and how we have docs for everyting
23:46:52 <Sparks> +1
23:47:06 <Sparks> should I put that on my plate?
23:47:26 <jjmcd> depends on how $DAYJOB looks I suppose
23:47:39 <Sparks> June is policy and procedure month...
23:47:49 <jjmcd> But it would be best coming from the docs project leader
23:47:49 <Sparks> so I'll be writing all kinds of policies
23:47:54 <Sparks> ya
23:48:02 <Sparks> I think I can squeeze it in.
23:48:49 <Sparks> #action Sparks to write an article on the new docs.fp.o and the guides within
23:49:20 <Sparks> To all Guide leaders...  Now is the time to work up some goals on your guides for F14.
23:49:48 <Sparks> #action Sparks to bring up F14 guide goals on docs list
23:49:55 <Sparks> Anything else on this topic?
23:50:21 <Sparks> #topic git repo conversion
23:50:34 <Sparks> nb: Anything else you need to discuss on the conversion?
23:51:43 <Sparks> Is there anything anyone wants to discuss in regards to the git repo conversion or the FAS groups change?
23:52:59 <Sparks> Okay then..
23:53:11 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
23:53:22 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora%20Documentation&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED
23:53:45 <Sparks> #info 105 open tickets
23:54:11 <Sparks> #info 26 new tickets
23:55:00 <Sparks> Everyone should check their queues to make sure that they have responded to their tickets and try to get them closed.
23:55:19 * Sparks thinks we might need to do another "hackfest" to get these tickets under control
23:55:24 <Sparks> comments?
23:55:53 <Sparks> #topic All other business
23:56:01 <Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything?
23:56:16 <jjmcd> Did you see where Bruno responded to te readme-live-image thing
23:56:29 <jjmcd> That's part of what had me distracted at 7
23:56:50 <Sparks> I haven't had a chance to read up on that.
23:56:55 <Sparks> What's up?
23:57:01 <jjmcd> solved
23:57:18 <jjmcd> He is going to remove it from the ks
23:57:25 <Sparks> Oh... Okay.  Works
23:57:42 <Sparks> Anyone going to Southeast Linux Fest?
23:57:42 <jjmcd> I see a bunch I need to remove from release_pending
23:57:57 <Sparks> jjmcd: If you can close those it would be great\
23:58:16 * Sparks just closed one of his
23:58:30 <Sparks> ianweller: You got a ride to SELF?
23:59:09 <ianweller> Sparks: yup
23:59:14 <ianweller> and a hotel
23:59:15 <ianweller> i am set
23:59:43 <Sparks> cool
23:59:53 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else?
00:00:11 <Sparks> Okay, thanks everyone for coming out.
00:00:25 <Sparks> #endmeeting