16:03:36 <smooge> #startmeeting EPEL (2010-06-25)
16:03:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jun 25 16:03:36 2010 UTC.  The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:03:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:03:43 <smooge> HI guys
16:03:49 <smooge> #topic roll call
16:04:09 <nirik> morning
16:04:19 <tremble> Hola
16:04:56 <smooge> ok here hello guys
16:05:15 <smooge> This will be the last EPEL meeting on Friday at 10:00
16:05:19 * maxamillion is here
16:05:32 <smooge> This will be the last EPEL meeting on Friday at 16:00 UTC (need to remember time zones)
16:05:42 <maxamillion> rgr
16:05:50 <smooge> we will be moving to Mondays at 1600 starting next week (eg we have a meeting on Monday)
16:06:40 <maxamillion> yeah, I saw that email.... many thanks for taking point on that
16:06:44 <smooge> nirik, did you have a conflict at 1600? Or was it someone else
16:07:02 <nirik> I should be able to make that I think...
16:07:13 <smooge> Ok cool
16:07:30 <smooge> I will change the wiki and get z00dax to change the topic
16:07:40 * jokajak is here
16:07:54 <smooge> ooops topic
16:08:01 <smooge> #topic New Meeting Time
16:08:20 <smooge> Our next meeting is Monday at 1600 UTC. It will be in #fedora-meeting-1 I think.
16:08:29 <smooge> I will email out to the list in a short while.
16:08:48 <nirik> why fedora-meeting-1?
16:09:04 <smooge> I thought there was one already in fedora-meeting or did I get the wrong time
16:09:25 <rprice> I'm not part of EPEL but may I ask a question regarding EPEL in here during this meeting?
16:09:47 <smooge> rprice, if you show up for a meeting, you are a part of EPEL :)
16:10:01 <smooge> so you can ask in a couple of minutes
16:10:09 * rprice zips his lips
16:10:09 <nirik> humm... looks like qa is that time. Could we adjust any to avoid conflicts? or there isn't any other time?
16:10:30 <smooge> QA has #fedora-meeting at 1600 UTC. The problem was that every good time for the majority of people other people had this room
16:10:48 <smooge> so #fedora-meeting-1 or in #epel
16:11:08 <smooge> nirik, what is your preference
16:11:09 <tremble> #epel May be simpler if zodbot'll take minutes there.
16:11:21 * rprice goes to #epel ;)
16:11:23 <nirik> well, the disadvantage of fedora-meeting-1 is that not many people idle in it... so I guess I would prefer epel.
16:11:33 <smooge> Ok #epel then
16:12:10 <smooge> #info Next EPEL meeting 1600 UTC on Monday 2010-06-28 #epel channel
16:12:20 <smooge> #topic RHEL-6 items
16:12:21 <nirik> we can always adjust I guess.
16:12:52 <tremble> We're up to 593 tagged packages now...
16:14:18 <smooge> tremble, was that built packages or possible packages?
16:15:01 <tremble> built
16:15:27 <tremble> Which is ~ 20% IIRC
16:15:30 <smooge> ok how are people about asking for a mass build when EL-6 beta 2 hits the floors?
16:15:44 <smooge> nirik, ? tremble ? makfinsky maxamillion ?
16:15:48 <nirik> I would prefer if we could spam maintainers instead.
16:16:15 <nirik> ask them if they could build, or if they no longer are actively maintaining it, orphan it so someone else can.
16:16:51 <tremble> I've been bumping my packages to match rawhide versions, I suspect many maintainers will want to do so too...
16:16:55 <makfinsky> Forgive me, what is a "mass build"?
16:17:17 <nirik> makfinsky: just a scripted rebuild of all packages that have not yet been built.
16:17:18 <smooge> everything that is split off for EPEL-6 from Fedora is built.
16:17:27 <abadger1999> What are the disadvantages to worrying about building up the packageset after RHEL-6 is released?
16:18:03 <smooge> abadger1999, we can deal with possible "oh wait EL-6 has this and I really needed that to build my stuff"
16:18:04 <nirik> abadger1999: some packages in epel5 would be missing that users might expect to exist in epel6 too...
16:18:07 <smooge> a lot earlier
16:18:23 <makfinsky> I take it the concern about mass build is that pkgs may not work and we'll have them in the repos?
16:18:33 <tremble> There may be more packages like RT with mass missing deps too.
16:18:42 <abadger1999> makfinsky: May not work, may not have an active maintainer.
16:18:48 <nirik> my concern is that if we have to mass build things, we may not have active matainers for them.
16:18:50 <makfinsky> Gotcha.
16:19:23 <abadger1999> One of my issues with building out beforehand is that we have much less testing that what's built actually works.
16:19:25 <smooge> nirik, I have had too many peiople say "Oh you didn't do that for me already? Fedora does it for me"
16:19:49 <nirik> smooge: yeah, there is confusion for sure.
16:20:00 <nirik> fedora doesn't mass rebuild for them, it inherits from the previous release.
16:20:03 <nirik> which we cannot do
16:20:17 <smooge> nirik, it does if there is a GCC flag/day
16:20:30 <nirik> sure, if a mass rebuild is decided.
16:20:36 <smooge> or some other thing... which is pretty much what happens every time an EL comes out
16:21:16 <tremble> There's less of an issue doing version bumps for fedora though.
16:21:33 <smooge> so that is what I am asking about. Should we look at this as a mass bebuild and if things fail/break etc we can get the maintainers to say "Wait I don't want this in EL-6" before EL-6 is really out
16:22:08 * nirik would prefer: spam maintainers first with a informative email, if that fails before release time, we could do a mass rebuild then.
16:22:50 <tremble> Same here
16:23:05 <smooge> ok well then we spam maintainers
16:23:10 <makfinsky> Hmm, I think I agree with nirik, email, build before rhel6 and drop stuff once release is out if maintainers haven't stepped up.
16:23:48 <nirik> did we have a list of packages not yet built by maintainer?
16:23:59 <smooge> tremble, made a list
16:24:00 <tremble> Not built at all, yes
16:24:04 <makfinsky> There should be around 3 or 4 months before rhel6 ga.
16:24:06 <smooge> it was something like 3000 packages
16:24:22 <tremble> nirik: 1 mo and I'll regen.
16:24:35 <nirik> ok, we should/could use that to mail maintainers...
16:24:47 <nirik> I'd be happy to help draft an email for it, but not sure I have time to script the sending.
16:24:51 <maxamillion> nirik: +1
16:25:15 <tremble> There is currently an issue wrt packages that have hit pkgdb as being in EPEL, but are in RHEL6
16:26:12 <abadger1999> We don't usually drop packages once they hit the stable repo, though, do we?
16:26:32 <makfinsky> abadger1999: So they'd have to be dropped before rhel6 ga.
16:26:33 <nirik> abadger1999: not if we can help it...
16:26:37 <abadger1999> So we'd want to push the results of a mass rebuild into epel-testing and then drop before?
16:26:45 <abadger1999> yeah
16:26:59 <nirik> yeah, we don't want to push out stable after GA and then remove it... that would be a dirty trick.
16:27:18 <tremble> At this point we can get away with pruning, post GA that gets ugly
16:27:41 <smooge> nirik, thanks
16:27:42 <nirik> especially since I doubt you can upgrade from beta1->beta2->ga.
16:27:51 <nirik> so people would be re-installing anyhow.
16:28:09 <smooge> no it is not covered and would probably break things due to downgrades and such
16:28:22 <abadger1999> tremble: For your scripts, we should be marking those packages obsolete/retired in the pkgdb (or removed)... if you have a list I can see if that's been done and if not, mark them as such.
16:29:08 <tremble> I've simply been told that for example the ruby-rails stack is apparently in RHEL now, but haven't had chance to pull out a full list yet
16:29:17 <nirik> tremble: would you be willing to do the sending to the maintainers? I'd be happy to help work on the email sent...
16:29:51 <tremble> nirik: Sure, although before I start nagging I'd prefer we tidied up pkgdb entries for EL-6
16:30:03 <nirik> sure, agreed.
16:30:34 <tremble> Latest set of lists: http://tremble.fedorapeople.org/EPEL-Report
16:30:48 <nirik> I should make sure i have built all my packages too before then. ;)
16:31:23 <tremble> I'm currently getting hit by a lack of deps (hence my application for PP membership)
16:31:30 <smooge> spot I think is the biggest needer of mass build
16:31:41 <tremble> I think he's just horribly busy
16:32:13 <makfinsky> I should email him and take some of those off his hands...
16:32:28 <smooge> poor old orphan
16:32:33 <tremble> He seems to be happy to accept co-maintainers.
16:32:34 <nirik> tremble: how does pp help there? allowing you to build things that haven't been built yet?
16:32:35 <smooge> he has so many packages to his name
16:32:42 <tremble> nirik : yeah
16:32:57 <tremble> nirik : the ability to run "make tag"
16:32:58 <nirik> tremble: wouldn't it be possible to just request co-maintainer on those?
16:33:23 <tremble> Well so far it's been about 30 odd packages.
16:33:53 <nirik> sure, but who's the maintainer there?
16:34:02 <tremble> Various people.
16:34:49 <nirik> well, ideally we would get them to maintain. ;) just building for them and not having anyone there to maintain seems not ideal to me.
16:34:52 <smooge> I think we should ask for co-maintainer ship ...
16:35:02 <smooge> nirik, welcome to fedora :P
16:35:32 <smooge> ok sorry -ENOCOFFEE
16:35:40 <smooge> SIG-CRANKY
16:35:46 <makfinsky> It's hard to force volunteers to do stuff.
16:36:02 * nirik nods.
16:36:13 <makfinsky> It's almost as hard to encourage them to do stuff.
16:36:15 <smooge> I don't want to force volunteers to do things, I just want more volunteers to help out
16:36:28 <makfinsky> Er, even harder, I should say.
16:36:44 <nirik> perhaps after mailing maintainers we will get more activity from folks. ;)
16:36:56 <skvidal> perhaps monkeys will fly out of my butt
16:37:01 <skvidal> oh, sorry
16:37:04 <skvidal> negativity
16:37:15 <makfinsky> skvidal: Video tape that, with the money, we'll make millions!
16:37:53 <smooge> no no no.. I think there are places this meeting should not go.
16:38:10 <tremble> makfinsky: And be able to get money to pay for dedicated EPEL devels ;)
16:38:49 <makfinsky> smooge: My apologies. =-O
16:38:50 <smooge> ok positive thoughts. do we have anything else to add to EL-6 at the moment (beyond it looks like next week Beta-2 should be out?)
16:39:20 <smooge> makfinsky, you only followed a road paved by others :).
16:39:32 <smooge> #topic EPEL SIG committee
16:39:59 <smooge> This was brought up on the list and looks like we have formally said we are an informal committee
16:40:06 <nirik> I think thats just fine.
16:40:14 <nirik> if it becomes a problem we can revisit.
16:40:14 <makfinsky> Uh...
16:41:05 <makfinsky> Heh.
16:41:07 <smooge> Our bylaws are what we put up on the wiki and vote with what people attend a meeting. If at some time we need to structure things more fine grained (eg we have more than 10 really interested people) we can revisit
16:41:08 <nirik> makfinsky: so we just have the people doing the work and showing up to meetings provide input. We don't do elections or have specific roles for people and voting on stuff, etc.
16:42:08 <rbergeron> merrrrrritocracy, anyone?
16:42:24 <smooge> I bring this up to 'formalize' our 'informality' in case we end up with more FESCO tickets about what we are supposed to be doing on arches and such
16:42:25 <rbergeron> :)
16:42:25 <makfinsky> Sounds good to me.
16:42:36 <maxamillion> rbergeron: isn't that kinda what FOSS is in general?
16:42:37 <smooge> Or that we are not proper
16:42:43 <rbergeron> maxamillion: knock on wood :)
16:42:49 <rbergeron> let's keep it that way :)
16:42:49 * maxamillion knocks
16:43:53 <smooge> ok I think we are done there and its time to go deal with something else
16:44:07 * smooge wishes cyberpear would get a stronger connection :).
16:44:19 <makfinsky> Moar power!
16:44:31 <smooge> #topic Open Floor
16:45:03 <smooge> #info Fix for EL-5 samba fix should hit production
16:45:45 <smooge> Any other issues for people?
16:45:51 <smooge> Bueller? Anyone?
16:46:01 * nirik has nothing
16:46:14 <makfinsky> Just happy to particpate here.
16:46:32 <rbergeron> smooge: is there still an EPEL fad plan in the works?
16:46:48 <makfinsky> Would that be an EAD?
16:48:06 <tremble> FAD/EAD ?
16:48:21 <nirik> FEAD
16:48:45 <smooge> now you make me hungry
16:49:12 <smooge> rbergeron, I have let it lapse at the moment. I need to put that on EPEL mailing list for discussion and get some committement on
16:50:13 <rbergeron> cool. just checking in on that :)
16:50:15 <smooge> #info Fedora EPEL Activity Day needs to be done
16:50:46 * rbergeron would love to see more activity days, getting people rallied around their interests and being excited and yada yada yada
16:51:14 <smooge> rbergeron, you must be in marketing... all that people meeting people things
16:51:41 * smooge gets ready to close in 30 as he goes to slink off to his cave
16:51:43 * rbergeron grins
16:52:30 <makfinsky> It's good to have her here.
16:52:58 <smooge> #endmeeting