's too 15:30:09 yeah i added css/javascript for collapsing tables 15:30:15 but I could definitely be *wrong* 15:30:18 rhe would know best 15:30:24 or of course our wiki master ... ianweller 15:30:39 j_dulaney: it's something i try to avoid ;) 15:30:56 but anyway ... adamw j_dulaney: anything you guys want to try on the wiki for next week? 15:31:12 jlaska: Sure 15:31:35 j_dulaney: if you could make a separate draft of a combined page in your personal space on the wiki and send it to the list for comments that'd be awesome 15:31:47 adamw: Indeed 15:31:48 i'd like to know what aaron thinks too since he did such an awesome job on the proventesters page 15:31:58 good point! 15:32:02 (aaron = dafrito, not sure if he's around) 15:32:35 grab and #action items you want ... otherwise, I'll keep this #topic on the agenda for our next meeting 15:33:31 #action j_dulaney to draft a combined proventesters / joinproventesters wiki page for list review 15:33:43 ianweller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NavFrame 15:34:09 #grab draft 15:34:18 Got it, will do 15:34:40 jlaska: i saw that, but it's not really making collapsible sections automaticaly 15:34:44 i can't spell today 15:34:54 ianweller: yeah, you're right 15:35:15 ianweller: hey, at least you didn't say automagically 15:35:19 there's a word that makes me want to punch things 15:35:26 * jlaska notes :) 15:35:37 okay, thanks adamw and j_dulaney 15:35:40 (and of course dafrito) 15:35:56 next up ... 15:35:56 the dude that taught me to program did things magically 15:36:17 unless his name was otto, you're good 15:36:22 kparal: I just joined this other meeting, do you mind taking the #chair from here? 15:36:24 (thank you, thank you, i'm here all week) 15:36:30 tip your waiter 15:36:31 jlaska: sure 15:36:49 Wish I could afford to go somewhere with a waiter 15:36:54 * kparal looking for agenda 15:37:02 kparal: I asked wwoods to drive the autoqa update for today 15:37:05 hey, denny's has waiters. technically. 15:37:31 so, we can hop on the AutoQA, right? 15:37:40 kparal: yeah, that's next 15:37:46 #topic AutoQA update 15:37:54 wwoods: you have the mic! 15:38:08 HELLO FEDORA QA 15:38:11 ARE YOU READY TO ROOOOOOCK 15:38:16 ahem sorry. 15:38:20 *applaud 15:38:23 I've already got some Godsmack going 15:38:25 haha 15:38:28 WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 15:38:33 so last week we (finally) got the post-bodhi-update hook merged 15:38:34 gogogogo 15:38:42 * adamw jumps on someone's head 15:39:04 yay 15:39:05 welcome chenrano2002! 15:39:08 we're working on a new 'helloworld' test to make sure the bodhi-watcher and autoqa hook are working properly 15:39:15 yes, I'm here:) 15:39:35 in what language? 15:39:41 #info post-bodhi-update hook is merged 15:39:46 the target is, of course, the 'depcheck' test 15:39:58 which should check all new proposed updates for dependency breakage 15:40:02 #info 'helloworld' test is a new big task now ;) 15:40:15 and refuse to let rel-eng move packages that might break the repos 15:40:27 helloworld is really needed for newbie, I hope to see it 15:40:30 *fanfare* 15:40:32 but that's a complex test that will require help from infrastructure/releng to set up properly 15:41:02 Where can I go to read up on autoqa? 15:41:03 so the helloworld test (written in python, like all the autoqa stuff) is what we'll use to test out the new hook. 15:41:25 https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ is where the code lives 15:41:30 Roger 15:41:32 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AutoQA is where the wiki docs are 15:42:01 ok, thanks wwoods 15:42:13 anything else from your end? 15:42:16 wwoods: what can I help with to complete that helloworld? 15:42:28 I think you and kparal had some run_once() suggestions ... just combine those and test? 15:42:35 there's more autoqa stuff going on, but I think kparal & jskladan will have more to say about that 15:42:38 jlaska: I believe so 15:43:02 jlaska: yeah - go for the quick-n-dirty-and-simple test and just dump locals() 15:43:11 kparal: wwoods: (helloworld) ... okay thanks, I'll update the ticket 15:43:22 * Viking-Ice starts Moshing. . . . 15:43:33 in the next week or two we might have a discussion about standardizing hook argument names, or tweaking the convention for passing hook args 15:43:46 but don't let that stop you from getting helloworld working now. 15:43:50 #topic AutoQA update - resultdb 15:43:51 at first, helloworld will just work with post-bodhi-update? 15:43:56 er 15:44:06 #topic AutoQA update 15:44:07 kparal: sorry ... keep going, I'll follow-up with you guys on fedora-qa after 15:44:15 * kparal misclicked 15:44:50 #info standardization of hook argument names will be discussed soon 15:44:55 kaparal can't wait to share his idea:) 15:45:10 jlaska: I believe helloworld should work for any hook 15:45:27 it will be just a generic test that will print out incoming arguments 15:45:31 that's all 15:45:37 and reports success :) 15:45:42 kparal: right, just didn't know how far you guys wanted me to go with this 15:46:01 but I'll hold off the standardization of hook args for later 15:46:02 No pretty stuff on screen? 15:46:25 maybe it could draw a pony 15:46:32 YAY 15:46:33 alright, ready for jskladan's update? 15:46:53 #topic AutoQA update - resultdb 15:46:57 well, updates on the ResultsDB front - i have a testing instance up'n'running on one of our machines (kudos to jlaska & infrastracture team), i already rewrote initscripts & rpmlint tests (see jskladan branch in autoqa git) so they store the data inside. I'll finish the other tests during this week and will set up the testing autotest-server instance so it runs these tests :) 15:47:18 sounds nice! 15:47:29 #info resultdb running on our staging server 15:47:32 so stay tuned for the magical tool being filled with data :) 15:47:56 and once there is some reasonable specimen 15:48:06 we can start working on some frontends 15:48:23 is it magical and revolutionary? 15:48:39 adamw: you bet 15:48:59 Can it make a cheesesteak appear in front of me? 15:49:01 so that's about it on the resultsDB for now :) 15:49:08 ok, thanks jskladan 15:49:21 #topic AutoQA update - autotest labels 15:49:34 and now for something different 15:49:39 j_dulaney: only if you can pronounce the mighty words of power :)) 15:50:05 I have created 'labels' branch that contains patched autoqa that can use autotest labels properly 15:50:09 at least I hope so 15:50:14 jskladan: I know not this heavy wizardry, yet 15:50:15 announcement here 15:50:18 #link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000742.html 15:50:39 we should now be able to specify "this test must run on Fedora 12", even dynamically 15:50:44 hooray! 15:50:48 shiny! 15:51:00 that was a big missing piece for a while, this is totally awesome 15:51:18 and we're now discussing best names for our labels: 15:51:21 #link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000740.html 15:51:36 does it just look for an existing machine that matches the labels, or can we actually spin up VMs as needed? 15:52:04 wwoods: it doesn't check for anything, it just schedules the job and atest takes care of the rest 15:52:20 if there is no machine matching that label, I guess it stays scheduled indefinitely 15:52:43 there are certainly areas for improvement :) 15:52:55 I still have to test is properly 15:53:08 So, how would I go about getting my machines talking to it all? 15:53:48 #info autotest labels can now be used when patched autoqa from 'labels' branch is used 15:53:51 j_dulaney: at this point, you don't. Although you can certainly run the tests at home if you like 15:54:31 I'm also working on a script that will ease VM installation for us, that's a second thing. I want to use it for my 'labels' testing 15:54:37 alright, that's from me 15:54:39 and you can set up your own autoqa server also. since, y'know, we're showing it's so damn easy ;) 15:54:45 woods: right 15:55:02 #topic Open discussion 15:55:10 now type your ideas 15:55:27 we've had two mentioned earlier already 15:55:31 i believe j_dulaney was first 15:55:41 ok, what was the name of the idea? 15:55:46 * kparal scrolls back 15:56:21 j_dulaney: An idea: get various small technical and comunity colleges to help with testing 15:56:39 #topic Open discussion - colleges to help testing 15:56:41 I was thinking of getting IT type classes at said colleges to do some of the testing for us 15:56:50 we've actually had one case of that already 15:57:10 j_dulaney: so what do you suggest should be done and how can you help? :) 15:57:48 vedran miletic teaches classes at a university, and he integrates Bugzappers into that; we've helped him out with having his students do some triage work a couple of times 15:57:52 it is a neat system 15:57:55 is there a school you're in touch with where you could start such a program? 15:58:17 oh cool so there's some documented prior work on how to do this stuff? 15:58:46 at the local community college, I know the instructer that teaches the appropriate class 15:59:13 I can't think of what said class is called at the moment, massive brain fart here 15:59:41 Anyway, I'm sure he'd be happy to have his students try to break applications once in a while. 15:59:55 well for sure ask if the instructor's interested, and point to the QA/Join page for ideas - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Join 16:00:04 Roger that 16:00:04 if they'd like to try any of that stuff we can certainly arrange to help them out 16:00:53 ok, if you have some contacts, try to lure them to us, sounds good :) 16:00:53 I could also do the same thing at the local high school when class starts back up this fall 16:01:04 yup 16:01:16 ok, thanks 16:01:20 what was the other idea? 16:01:53 #topic Open discussion 16:01:59 * jraber wonders if anyone has heard an update regarding bug 552423 It is a COMMONBUG, but the last time I checked it was the only COMMONBUG with no workaround or planned fix 16:02:19 .bug 552423 16:02:21 kparal: Bug 552423 [abrt] crash in gnome-panel (/usr/libexec/wnck-applet @ wncklet_connect_while_alive / wncklet.c:183) - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=552423 16:02:37 kparal: it was from oxf13 regarding a knowledge base 16:03:27 #topic Open discussion - Knowledge base 16:04:05 personally i hate the damn things, like i hate any large aggregation of likely-to-change-rapidly information without good mechanisms for staying up to date... 16:04:12 ok, so tell me what's the difference between knowledge base and a wiki? :) 16:04:31 Microsoft's sucks 16:04:39 Indeed, it is often useless 16:04:54 a well organized wiki is more granular and hence tends to have a better 'ownership' stake 16:05:10 newers need docs, so is it possible to convert/public useful wiki to PDF format for reading locally? 16:05:23 in a good wiki, some person/people or group is clearly the owner of a given page and should update it 16:05:23 what would be the benefit of a knowledge base for us then? 16:05:30 yeah, i'm struggling 16:05:33 Oxf13: is there any more detail on the idea? 16:05:48 what's the proposed format/content of the knowledge base? how is it differentiated from the wiki? how would it be written/maintained? 16:06:15 thanks for formulating those questions, adamw 16:06:51 * jlaska back 16:07:15 * kparal gives jlaska the throne back 16:07:24 I myself rather enjoy the idea of PDFs for basic stuff, but then one can just save the Wiki page 16:07:25 kparal: no sir ... take us to the end :) 16:07:43 don't want to distrupt the flow as much as I already have 16:08:09 we're just struggling with finding differences between knowledge base and wiki 16:08:33 I don't know if there was anything actionable with this topic 16:08:36 alright, seems Oxf13 is away, we can discuss it next time 16:08:49 #topic Open discussion 16:08:49 sure 16:09:07 anything else anyone? 16:09:09 sorry I was on another call. 16:09:12 ah 16:09:51 adamw: basically the idea of having a Fedora KB has been kicked around by a couple people, and before we put any resources into it, we have to make sure there will be somebody to consume/contribute to it, so that it'll be useful use of our resources. 16:10:06 #topic Open discussion - Knowledge base 16:10:12 are there answers to the above question? 16:10:16 questions* 16:10:47 adamw: nothing here ... let's come back to this when there is something more tangible 16:11:04 I think it could be a compelling discussion ... if there is a proposal or existing solution etc.. ?? 16:11:04 #topic Open discussion 16:11:13 my $0.02 at least 16:11:22 regarding bug 552423, if nobody has an update, should I ping the maintainer? (should I save this for the bugzappers meeting tomorrow?) 16:11:32 if the idea is just 'something called a knowledge base' then i'd say, no, on the surface it seems to be just a duplication of the wiki and i can't see any added value. but we need more detail to provide sensible feedback. 16:11:39 jraber: please raise this question in #fedora-qa channel 16:11:45 adamw: yup 16:12:27 alright, let's wait a minute and then close this meeting if noone objects 16:13:12 I can think of nothing else 16:13:18 thanks all for attending 16:13:22 #endmeeting