15:00:10 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:00:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 19 15:00:10 2010 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:15 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:19 <jlaska> #topic Gathering in the lobby
15:00:37 <jlaska> hey gang, I'll wait a few minutes for folks to join
15:00:45 * kparal in
15:00:56 <adamw> morning
15:01:16 * fenris02 waves
15:01:23 * j_dulaney is here and in better shape than last week, or at least he things so.
15:01:36 <j_dulaney> thinks^^
15:01:44 <j_dulaney> maybe not
15:01:59 <adamw> someone mail j_dulaney the tylenol
15:02:30 <jlaska> let's get a shipment out stat!
15:03:08 * Viking-Ice here
15:03:18 <jlaska> alright, I think we have everyone.  I see maxamillion and vaschenb lurking too
15:03:24 <jlaska> jskladan and wwoods will be out today
15:03:44 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:04:08 * vaschenb in
15:04:11 <jlaska> I have a proventester follow-up item on the list from last week ... but we can hold that until the main proventester topic
15:04:20 <jlaska> vaschenb: welcome :D
15:04:31 <jlaska> adamw: any objections?
15:04:47 <vaschenb> jlaska: thx:-)
15:04:49 <adamw> sure
15:05:21 <jlaska> so that's it for follow-up from last week ... unless I missed anything?
15:06:08 <jlaska> alright, diving into the proposed agenda
15:06:13 <jlaska> #topic   Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
15:06:46 <jlaska> Just a quick heads up ... we had another batch of install images posted last week (thanks clumens and Oxf13) for automated testing
15:07:08 <jlaska> #info Testing just about completed - results at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_14_Pre-Alpha_Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_2
15:07:31 <jlaska> I'll post a summary to the mailing list ... the good news is there seems to be a lack of flames with these images
15:07:43 <kparal> starts to look greenish
15:07:55 <jlaska> I don't know if that means the big changes haven't landed yet, or something else
15:08:10 <adamw> anaconda team says they haven't changed a lot
15:08:19 <adamw> they were kinda surprised that we'd hit *any* blocker issues
15:08:24 <jlaska> right, that could be the big factor
15:08:47 <jlaska> so this milestone isn't intended to be an exhaustive run through the matrix, just a "does it smell" check-point
15:08:49 <maxamillion> bah!
15:08:51 * maxamillion is here
15:08:56 <jlaska> maxamillion: welcome :)
15:09:03 <Viking-Ice> what about systemd is going in alpha?
15:09:24 <maxamillion> jlaska: thankies .... not sure how I pulled off being late when I never left my desk
15:09:25 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: last I checked it's in rawhide, but not enabled by default
15:09:42 <jlaska> #info jlaska will post test summary to the list in the next day
15:10:01 <adamw> lennart wanted to flip the switch on systemd last week
15:10:03 <jlaska> #info The 3rd (and final) pre-alpha acceptance test run is scheduled for this Thursday
15:10:04 <Viking-Ice> jlaska: what was what I was wondering about if it would be on by default
15:10:12 <Viking-Ice> in alpha
15:10:25 <Viking-Ice> the sooner the better
15:10:28 <jlaska> agreed
15:10:41 <fenris02> until systemd has a working policy that allows selinux/enforcing, i would nix it
15:10:48 <adamw> mostly it's held up by a bug which makes it fail to work if selinux is turned on
15:10:53 <adamw> i'd quote the bug number but i can't find it
15:10:57 <Viking-Ice> I thought Dan had fixed that
15:10:59 <adamw> fenris02, do you have it to hand?
15:11:14 <fenris02> adamw, i'm cc'd on it .. moment
15:11:18 <maxamillion> so ... I am going to play the noob real quick, what's systemd?
15:11:19 <j_dulaney> Viking-Ice: I thought the same thing?
15:11:28 <adamw> maxamillion: new init system, written by lennart
15:11:33 <adamw> it's the pulseaudio of system startup!
15:11:36 <fenris02> bug #614574
15:11:43 <jlaska> adamw: don't phrase it like that! :D
15:11:46 <maxamillion> adamw: wait, its going to replace upstart?
15:11:55 <jlaska> .bug 614574
15:11:56 <zodbot> jlaska: Bug 614574 tracker : SELinux policy for Systemd - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=614574
15:11:56 <adamw> it's going to place sysv.
15:11:58 <fenris02> maxamillion, correct. upstart is too unstable
15:12:02 <Viking-Ice> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=183943
15:12:03 <maxamillion> yes!!!!!
15:12:07 <maxamillion> I freaking hate upstart
15:12:07 <jlaska> okay ... so next topic ...
15:12:11 <adamw> maxamillion: yeah, it's going to replace it.
15:12:11 <maxamillion> adamw: rock
15:12:17 <jlaska> #topic Package update acceptance plan
15:12:19 * maxamillion does a little dance
15:12:22 <fenris02> maxamillion, check out the whitepaper on systemd.  once it works, it sounds awesome
15:12:28 <Viking-Ice> * Wed Jul 14 2010 Dan Walsh <dwalsh@redhat.com> 3.8.7-2 - Make boot with systemd in enforcing mode
15:12:32 <maxamillion> fenris02: I will do so shortly
15:12:48 <j_dulaney> systemd is pretty cool; I like the code, too
15:13:00 <j_dulaney> rather elegant, in my opinion
15:13:04 <kparal> guys, the topic changed... :)
15:13:10 <j_dulaney> Oh
15:13:13 <jlaska> we can talk about systemd in open-discussion if there are any more topics
15:13:18 <maxamillion> sorry to contribute to derailing the meeting :P
15:13:19 <adamw> we all ignore that jlaska guy and his crazy topic changes
15:13:27 <jlaska> adamw: cranes
15:13:31 <adamw> =)
15:13:42 <maxamillion> ok, so ... package update acceptance plan :)
15:13:47 <maxamillion> go!
15:13:49 <jlaska> kparal and vaschenb are representing the AutoQA masses today
15:14:01 <kparal> two masses :)
15:14:05 * jlaska notes wwoods and jskladan are out enjoying life hopefully
15:14:23 <j_dulaney> to me, this IS life
15:14:36 <jlaska> so kparal ... any big items to report on ... there's been quite a flury of activity on autoqa-devel@ in the past 2 weeks
15:14:48 <kparal> alright, so let me say a few words about the past week or so
15:14:49 * adamw bets wwoods is slumped over a bar somewhere saying 'yum upgrade? let me TELL you about yum upgrades...'
15:14:50 * Viking-Ice is so fortunate to not having a life..
15:15:24 <maxamillion> adamw: LOL
15:15:28 <j_dulaney> Yeah, I'm still trying to dig through all the emails
15:15:36 <kparal> unfortunatelly our main autoqa architect wwoods is somewhere out there, so our patches are not really submitted to master
15:16:01 <kparal> but vaschenb prepared a helloworld test usable for the newcommers and for us when testing new hooks and stuff
15:16:06 * j_dulaney notes that next time he gets sick, he should turn off mail receiving from the mailing lists
15:16:15 <jlaska> #info vaschenb prepared a helloworld test usable for the newcommers and for us when testing new hooks and stuff
15:16:30 <kparal> he can surely say a few words about it, go, vaschenb :)
15:16:34 * maxamillion has to run afk
15:16:40 <j_dulaney> Peace, bro
15:17:00 <vaschenb> kparal: I'm just listener :-)
15:17:13 <vaschenb> kparal: no write access :-D
15:17:32 <kparal> alright, so let's say we now have a slightly modified control file
15:17:46 <kparal> all autoqa variables are in a dictionary now, so it's much easier to get a list of them
15:17:58 <kparal> which will allow us to do multihook tests
15:18:05 <kparal> (maybe with some more tweaks)
15:18:16 <j_dulaney> Is such a list available online?
15:18:34 <kparal> j_dulaney: not really online, but in the documentation of every hook
15:18:40 <j_dulaney> Or, would it be
15:18:45 <j_dulaney> kparal: ah, thanks
15:18:46 <jlaska> j_dulaney: I believe vaschenb posted a dump of them to autoqa-devel recently?
15:19:06 <kparal> the patches are in autoqa-devel, not yet merged to master
15:19:33 <j_dulaney> jlaska: I'll look for it, I've a million emails built up
15:19:54 <vaschenb> j_dulaney: it's helloworld topic...
15:20:10 <j_dulaney> vaschenb: aye aye
15:20:19 <kparal> and from the my part of the world - I started to work on a new control file for tests, that would handle autoqa variables (not just autotest ones).
15:20:31 <kparal> that means that tests will be able to better control when and how they should run
15:20:53 <jlaska> this ties into your labels work, right?
15:20:54 <kparal> for example on which architectures, which autotest labels are required for this test to run, or whether this run should run at all
15:21:00 <jlaska> ah cool
15:21:15 <kparal> for example we don't have to run initscripts test when we don't have initscript testing support for that particular package
15:21:23 <kparal> which saves resources in the end
15:21:28 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:21:32 <jlaska> #info kparal started to work on a new control file for tests, that would handle autoqa variables
15:21:45 <kparal> similarly to rpmlint, we don't need it to run on every architecture, just on 'any' single architecture
15:22:18 <kparal> so, that's it I guess. stay tuned :)
15:22:36 <jlaska> eggsellent, thanks for the updates kparal
15:22:49 <kparal> and I have created https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Automate_AutoQA_clients_installation today
15:23:08 <kparal> if you need to install multiple virtual machines as AutoQA clients, this can save you some time and typing
15:23:11 <jlaska> sounds like vaschenb's work isn't far from master, wwoods will likely help move that through when he returns
15:23:47 <kparal> jlaska: yea, I'm sure his patches are just one review away from master :)
15:23:49 <jlaska> #info kparal created https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Automate_AutoQA_clients_installation to document installing multiple autoqa virt clients
15:24:10 <jlaska> alrighty ... anything else guys?
15:24:21 <kparal> this time it's really all from us I believe
15:24:55 <jlaska> okay, let's move on to adamw and maxamillion
15:25:03 <jlaska> #topic Proventester Update
15:25:23 <adamw> well, i dunno that we need to do this every week now
15:25:42 <adamw> i think the hard work for proven testers is pretty much done now, we have the process in place and working
15:25:43 <jlaska> adamw: cool, I'm fine removing it ... I left it on from last week since we still had open items
15:25:50 <adamw> what's open for update from last week?
15:26:12 <jlaska> talking to lmacken for guidance on the 2 python scripts he has for generating bodhi metrics
15:26:34 <adamw> okay, yeah, i mailed luke
15:26:47 <adamw> he said he could make metrics stuff happen if we request it, so i opened a ticket
15:26:56 <adamw> https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/456
15:27:11 <adamw> i put the most important metrics i can think of that we'd need in the ticket
15:27:14 <adamw> can anyone think of any others?
15:27:22 <jlaska> oh nice, /me looks
15:27:51 <jlaska> adamw: nice ... I like those 2 points you noted in the ticket
15:27:57 <jlaska> * top proven testers (by feedback left on critpath packages)
15:28:00 <jlaska> * a list of critpath updates still requiring proventesters feedback (ordered perhaps by how long since they were submitted)
15:28:32 <j_dulaney> Do reverse order, so oldest is first?
15:28:42 <adamw> the top proven tester each week will win free beer!*
15:28:44 <adamw> * - the beer is a lie
15:28:47 <j_dulaney> Or is that what was meant
15:28:59 <adamw> j_dulaney: that's probably what i meant, but it's worth clarifying it, thanks =)
15:29:06 <j_dulaney> adamw: I'm close enough to drive to Raleigh to get beer
15:29:55 <adamw> oh, that's a good idea, since i'm in vancouver. yes, jlaska in Raleigh is DEFINITELY in charge of providing the free beer
15:29:58 <kparal> j_dulaney: you would have to travel much further to get a beer from adamw :)
15:30:03 <kparal> heh
15:30:04 <adamw> direct all free beer-related enquiries to jlaska
15:30:12 <j_dulaney> LOL
15:30:24 * maxamillion is back
15:30:25 <Viking-Ice> make sure he only provides imported beer
15:30:26 <fenris02> who handles the free pony?
15:30:40 * j_dulaney likes imports
15:30:40 <jlaska> I've got a fedora-qa ticket open that ties into your metrics thread
15:30:47 <adamw> we'll have absolutely no pony handling in THIS qa group, i tell you
15:30:50 <j_dulaney> although NC's Duck Rabit stout's pretty good
15:31:11 <adamw> jlaska: stop working, we're trying to be silly here! what ticket?
15:31:14 <jlaska> adamw: anything you want to keep on the list for next week?
15:31:17 <Viking-Ice> I think anything will suffice as long is not beer from the state
15:31:37 <adamw> Viking-Ice: american microbrews are pretty great. it's only the mass market stuff that sucks. of course, in europe you only get the mass market stuff.
15:31:52 <Viking-Ice> yup
15:32:21 <jlaska> adamw: ticket#93
15:32:30 <maxamillion> Franziskaner for everyone! :D
15:32:34 <adamw> jlaska: i don't think there's anything we need to keep as a weekly checkin, we can put the metrics in as a meeting topic in future if we ever need to i guess
15:32:55 <jlaska> adamw: okay
15:32:59 <adamw> maxamillion: anything you can think of to check in on for proventesters in future meetings?
15:33:01 * jlaska notes ... there goes my left-click :(
15:33:18 <adamw> jlaska: same bug we've been talking about on the list?
15:33:23 <maxamillion> adamw: not that I can think of, I think we're pretty much full swing ... all the action items that I know of have been completed
15:33:31 <j_dulaney> jlaska: redundancy, man,  redundancy
15:33:31 <jlaska> adamw: yeah
15:33:40 <jlaska> okay, it's open discussion time
15:33:46 * jeff_hann here, sorry
15:33:50 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - <your topic here>
15:33:52 <adamw> jlaska: try yanking the mouse cord? it hasn't happened to me again yet, i'm curious to see if that helps
15:33:54 <jeff_hann> just got home from work
15:33:59 <j_dulaney> beer?
15:34:07 <jlaska> adamw: didn't help :(
15:34:21 <adamw> ooh. interesting bug...wonder what it is
15:34:35 * j_dulaney has mouse and tablet, so if one dies, in theory, the other should still work
15:34:53 <jlaska> #chair kparal
15:34:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: jlaska kparal
15:35:16 <Viking-Ice> I say we ditch mouse and touchpads all together and go keyboard only
15:35:17 <jlaska> kparal: Can you guide us through to the finish line, I'm double booked
15:35:23 <kparal> jlaska: sure
15:35:35 <kparal> it may be very short
15:35:42 <kparal> does anyone have any open floor topic?
15:35:51 <adamw> does anyone have a NON-BEER-RELATED open floor topic?
15:35:51 <j_dulaney> Not I
15:35:59 <maxamillion> I kinda have one
15:36:08 <jlaska> kparal: thanks
15:36:27 <maxamillion> would we want to look into a weekly "this is how many proventester mentor requests are still outstanding, anyone interested?" check-in ?
15:36:54 <j_dulaney> That may be a good thing
15:36:55 <kparal> #topic outstanding proventester mentor requests
15:37:16 <adamw> maybe in the short term, ypu
15:37:24 <adamw> i'd hope we won't really have outstanding requests in the long term
15:37:28 <j_dulaney> It shouldn't take long to run through
15:37:37 <adamw> but seems like a solid idea if we do
15:37:44 <kparal> I think we can have a look at it next week
15:37:46 <maxamillion> adamw: right
15:37:59 <kparal> but generally we shouldn't have any of them outstanding
15:38:17 <maxamillion> I'd hope it won't be something that there are many outstanding in the long term but since we're still kinda in the early stages of being live I thought I'd bring it up
15:38:36 <kparal> and now I don't know the tag for marking a follow-up item
15:38:56 <j_dulaney> Of course, the average proven tester doesn't have to be a rocket scientest
15:39:27 <adamw> kparal: #action
15:39:51 <adamw> something like #action maxamillion to set up a weekly outstanding proventester mentor request checkin
15:40:08 <kparal> #action maxamillion to set up a weekly outstanding proventester mentor request checkin
15:40:13 <maxamillion> :)
15:40:24 <j_dulaney> LOL
15:40:30 <vaschenb> hh
15:40:33 <kparal> alright, anythig else to solve? :)
15:40:37 <Viking-Ice> The selinux policy for systemd in enforcing mode is in place ( selinux-policy-3.8.7-2.fc14 )  thus there should not be anything in the way of allowing systemd to replace upstart in alpha. . ..
15:40:52 <kparal> #topic Open floor
15:40:53 <fenris02> Viking-Ice, you tested it?
15:41:25 * j_dulaney thinks that he'll give it a shot
15:41:32 <Viking-Ice> not in enforcing mode
15:41:33 <adamw> Viking-Ice: that's not a qa issue, still. it's a devel issue. once it's in, we can start complaining that it's broken. =)
15:41:36 * j_dulaney rather likes systemd
15:41:46 <fenris02> Viking-Ice, last i tried, it failed miserably in enforcing mode.
15:42:16 <Viking-Ice> I've been running systemd from the get go however in disabled mode
15:42:17 <kparal> alright, seems we don't have any other topics to discuss
15:42:21 <fenris02> j_dulaney, the concept is outstanding.  it's just not ready yet
15:42:44 <kparal> thanks everyone for joining in
15:42:58 <maxamillion> happy to have been able to make it back to one of these :)
15:43:05 <kparal> #endmeeting