20:10:19 <liknus> #startmeeting EMEA Ambassadors Meeting 2010-07-21
20:10:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 21 20:10:19 2010 UTC.  The chair is liknus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:10:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:10:26 <liknus> #chair kital
20:10:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: kital liknus
20:10:32 <liknus> #topic RollCall
20:10:44 <liknus> .fas ppapadeas
20:10:46 <zodbot> liknus: ppapadeas 'Papadeas Pierros' <ppapadeas@gmail.com>
20:10:47 <biertie> .fas biertie
20:10:50 <zodbot> biertie: biertie 'Bert Desmet' <bert@devnox.be>
20:10:51 <kital> JoergSimon
20:10:53 <liknus> its on the topic guys :)
20:11:05 <t2hot> .fas t2hot
20:11:06 <zodbot> t2hot: twohot 'Onyeibo Oku' <twohotis@fastmail.fm>
20:11:45 <egyDev> Ahmed M. Araby
20:11:48 <liknus> (for the new ones : write ".fas" followed with your fas username)
20:11:53 <arthurbuliva> arthurbuliva "Arthur Buliva" <arthurbuliva@fedoraproject.org>
20:12:11 <bochecha> Mathieu Bridon
20:12:15 <liknus> Hello to all :)
20:12:25 <arthurbuliva> .fas arthurbuliva
20:12:26 <zodbot> arthurbuliva: arthurbuliva 'Arthur Buliva' <arthurbuliva@gmail.com>
20:12:27 <rastal> .fas samuelig
20:12:29 <zodbot> rastal: samuelig 'Samuel Iglesias Gonsálvez' <samuel_ig@yahoo.es>
20:12:30 <bochecha> liknus, that's only if you want your personal email to appear in a publicly logged channel ;)
20:12:33 <liknus> todays agenda is on :
20:12:44 <liknus> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:EMEA_Ambassadors_2010-07-21
20:13:05 <liknus> bochecha, this info is given to anyone by zodbot :P
20:13:38 <liknus> So lets start with announcements
20:13:53 <liknus> #topic Annnouncements
20:14:06 <liknus> kital, any news from FAmSCo?
20:14:22 <kital> only the June Report for now
20:14:27 <kital> http://susmit.fedorapeople.org/report/famsco_report_june_2010.html
20:14:29 <kital> eof
20:14:45 <liknus> thanks kital :)
20:14:53 <liknus> any other announcements anyone?
20:15:21 <liknus> ok moving on...
20:15:42 <liknus> #topic August Meetings
20:16:11 <liknus> I believe that many people during August will be unavailable (good for them :) )
20:16:33 <liknus> so I propose the hiatus of our meetings until September or at best late August
20:17:12 <liknus> Fortunately for us 1 September is Wednesday so we can resume our meeting then
20:17:18 <liknus> any views on that?
20:17:44 <bochecha> unless there are events or important things to discuss in August, let's take holidays from the meetings :)
20:18:07 <liknus> bochecha, the only event in FrosCon
20:18:15 <liknus> and Felix is taking care of it
20:18:33 <biertie> oh, isn't eth-0 on it?
20:18:38 <liknus> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FrOSCon_2010
20:18:39 <biertie> srry, I'm going to fix that :(
20:19:17 <liknus> so we shall vote on the hiatus
20:19:35 <liknus> Who is in favor of pausing the meetings until 1st September?
20:19:37 <liknus> +1
20:19:53 <benda> +1
20:20:00 <bochecha> like I already said I'm +1 on that
20:20:22 <bochecha> we have a mailing-list anyway, so any urgent issue can be brought up there
20:20:36 <kital> +1
20:20:41 <egyDev> +1
20:21:02 <biertie> +0
20:21:02 <liknus> ok guys agreed on that
20:21:13 <liknus> oops .. biertie
20:21:18 <liknus> go ahead
20:21:38 <biertie> nah, doesn't matter :-)
20:21:45 <biertie> fudcon is another entity anyway
20:21:54 <liknus> :)
20:22:11 <liknus> #agreed EMEA meetings on hiatus during August
20:22:21 <liknus> moving on
20:22:30 <t2hot> ?
20:22:36 <liknus> t2hot,
20:22:43 <liknus> #topic Media and Shipping
20:23:25 <t2hot> That's EMEA all? Wondering how that ripples over EMEA Africa
20:24:00 <t2hot> eof
20:24:28 <liknus> t2hot, EMEA-Africa can decide on their own about their meeting
20:24:38 <liknus> this descision was about thisparticular meeting
20:24:59 <t2hot> understood
20:25:18 <liknus> if the African Ambassadors feel that they can meet during August I will be more that happy to see that appening (as a matter of fact I will join you :) )
20:25:28 <liknus> now on Media
20:25:47 <liknus> I suppose most of you are familiar with the situation
20:26:24 <liknus> I have sent a mail on the list trying to clarify a little bit the current condition of the media
20:26:48 <liknus> (if anyone feels like saying something please write "!")
20:27:04 <liknus> sspreitzer, ping
20:27:37 <biertie> !
20:27:47 <liknus> I believe that we need to speed up the process a little bit and unfortunately the people involved are not here
20:27:48 <liknus> biertie,
20:28:03 <biertie> I just added another event for august on the calendar,, and I'm going
20:28:30 <biertie> but I don't think there will be a lot of fedora people, so I'm just going to do some things with fedora swag like stickers, and maybe hang a big banner
20:28:59 <cwickert> !
20:29:00 <liknus> thanks biertie ... I guess you also need media?
20:29:23 <biertie> yeah, but I think loupgaroublond still has some, but should check with him first
20:29:34 <biertie> otherwise, I know where the swag tracker is :)
20:30:03 <liknus> biertie, feel free to ping Felix also as he was assigned to fill up the gap on sspreitzer vacations
20:30:06 <liknus> cwickert,
20:30:13 <biertie> ok
20:30:14 <biertie> eof
20:30:22 <cwickert> what exactly is our problem? sspreitzer will be back next week and there are no events ATM. Things will continue once sspreitzer is back and in the meantime, heffer can serve the requests
20:30:44 <benda> !
20:30:56 <cwickert> I have to admit the current situtation is not perfect, but let's not dramatize things please
20:30:58 <cwickert> eof
20:31:34 <liknus> cwickert, the thing is/was that media should be by now to the primary locations as small events and media hangouts are difficult without media
20:32:01 <liknus> in greece we annuled 2 presentations due to lack of media
20:32:19 <liknus> its not dramatized.. its just nudging :)
20:32:24 <liknus> benda,
20:32:51 <biertie> !
20:32:56 <benda> In the hangouts I have organized, I have asked people to bring along blank media
20:33:25 <cwickert> ?
20:33:28 <benda> this has ironed out the issue of media running out
20:33:41 <benda> and is also generally the cheaper option
20:34:03 <liknus> yeap benda :) thats also a nice solution but it would be better to have the media :) also it is not always cheaper
20:34:05 <liknus> biertie,
20:34:14 <benda> eof
20:34:52 <biertie> in my /opinion/ you don't NEED media when you give a presentation ;-) it helps promoting fedora, but if you give the talk people will know about fedora already, and should be preferred over canceling because of no media.. #justmy2cents
20:34:55 <biertie> eof
20:35:45 <kital> biertie: if media are not that important i do not understand why we spend 4000$ on them every release
20:35:47 <liknus> biertie, i said annuled not canceled :) I mean that people expected the media... anyway ...
20:35:57 <liknus> +1 on kital
20:36:06 <liknus> cwickert, you question ..
20:36:08 <cwickert> liknus, benda, are your events in the wiki and did you request media via the swag tracker?
20:36:11 <biertie> me neither ;)
20:36:58 <liknus> cwickert, it would be not nice to request media for a small event if you know that theprimary shipping needs to be done
20:37:12 <cwickert> I count this as "no"
20:37:27 <cwickert> if you didn't follow the workflow, you should not complain that our workflow is bad ;)
20:37:29 <cwickert> eof
20:37:30 <liknus> of cource no... it would be unwise
20:37:37 <kital> !
20:37:59 <benda> @cwickert three of the events have been what I call impromptu - just someone deciding one day to ask me to give a talk about Fedora and/or the FOSS movement
20:38:10 <liknus> cwickert, we are talking about common sense :) why should I ask 30 Cds when I know that primary shipping should be underway?
20:38:30 <liknus> +1 benda I have been twice in this situation last month
20:38:33 <liknus> kital,
20:38:37 <benda> thus in such short notice asking for media wasnt really practical
20:38:56 <benda> eof
20:39:06 <cwickert> liknus, why not request a 100 then and use the rest for other events in greece?
20:39:34 <liknus> F13 for greece in not only 100 cwickert ...
20:39:44 <liknus> thats the primary shippment we are talking about
20:39:53 <liknus> spreading and then using
20:40:21 <liknus> or shall we have 2-3 shippments for greece during F13 cycle?
20:40:29 <liknus> kital, go ahead
20:41:17 <cwickert> liknus, a shipment like this would have been around 3,40 EUR, not worth thinking about it
20:41:35 <kital> cwickert: i have to complain here
20:41:44 <liknus> 3,40 ? you mean 30 maybe ? :)
20:42:10 <kital> this topic is around for weeks now
20:42:37 <kital> we all know it is insane to send small packages with media through whole europe
20:42:55 <kital> there is a proposal
20:42:56 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_production#EMEA_2
20:43:34 <benda> sorry to be uncouth but power cut in Nairobi. Can only stay online for the next 10 minutes. Bye in advance...
20:44:07 <liknus> bye benda thanks for joining us!
20:44:33 <kital> i really have no personal interest in this topic - but as famsco member i am in charge that people have the oportunity to get there media
20:44:39 <cwickert> !
20:45:03 <liknus> cwickert,
20:45:12 <cwickert> how man requests have we received that we could not fulfill?
20:45:13 <kital> and i understand that as long as they do not have the media in a local availability they will not use them
20:45:20 <liknus> sorry.. cwickert wait for oef by kital
20:45:23 <kital> cwickert: that is not the question
20:45:32 * t2hot thinks "wow ... that happens in nairobi too?"
20:46:03 <kital> it is that we have media stored which should spreaded as long as we have F13 and not if F14 Beta is coming up
20:46:31 <kital> we do not even had voted on this proposal https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_production#EMEA_2
20:46:36 <cwickert> !!
20:46:57 <kital> we do not even know where to ship all this thousands media
20:46:58 <kital> eof
20:47:20 <liknus> cwickert,
20:47:23 <cwickert> kital, we already agreed to that proposal 3 weeks ago
20:47:51 <cwickert> but if there are no people stepping up for distribution in their country, there is not much sspreitzer can do
20:48:18 <kital> it was never a problem in the past?
20:48:20 <cwickert> before he went on holiday he made sure that there is a person to have enough media to handle all urgent requests
20:48:34 <cwickert> in the past we used local events where we could meet
20:48:45 <cwickert> but there was no event in the last 3 weeks
20:48:45 <liknus> cwickert, the countries are specific :) anyone knows key ambassadors on them :)
20:48:57 <cwickert> or no big international event since the media was produced
20:49:29 <cwickert> liknus, then these people need to stand up and go ahead. they should request media for their country and that's it
20:49:31 <cwickert> eof
20:49:54 <liknus> I stepped up... I didnt receive media cwickert
20:50:05 <cwickert> liknus, where is your request?
20:50:45 <liknus> this is primary shipment cwickert .. i never requested it :) not for F10, not for F11,not for F12 :)
20:51:10 <liknus> but I always received it as the person responsible did the distributio
20:51:12 <cwickert> liknus, so how was it done in the past? was it beamed over to greece by scotty?
20:51:24 <kital> cwickert: what i want to know - can we be sure that our money is well taken care of with these media and that they are well used?
20:51:46 <kital> if all are happy with the situation i have no further complains
20:52:25 <cwickert> kital, if the ambassadors step up and go ahead, we can make it.
20:52:39 <kital> that was not the question
20:52:46 <kital> but anyway -
20:52:49 <kital> ;)
20:53:19 <liknus> cwickert, we agreed on the proposals but as it can be seen it was not done by last years standards
20:53:24 <liknus> anyway
20:53:32 <cwickert> kital, it WAS the answer. you asked if we can make sure and *yes we can* if we all work together
20:53:54 <cwickert> liknus, so how did ou request your media in the past? how was it delivered? what is different from your POV this time?
20:55:06 <liknus> media was sent to me by Joerg or Max or Alessandra because we were making many event in Greece in the past.. so they figured out that wewill cntinue (as we do)
20:55:18 <liknus> the difference now is that I dont have media
20:55:27 <kital> cwickert: what if ambassadors do not step up?
20:55:45 <cwickert> liknus, how did they know how much media you need? I guess you told them, right?
20:55:46 <liknus> Events are sometimes finalized on the last moment... we  need media in handy
20:55:54 <liknus> cwickert, nope
20:56:08 <cwickert> so how did they know? magic?
20:56:13 <liknus> it was a nice distribution throughout key points in Europe
20:56:30 <liknus> never asked for specific ammount
20:56:47 <kital> i think we are to deep in detail here
20:56:54 <liknus> i agree
20:56:56 <kital> what was in the past ....
20:57:13 <liknus> anyone more on that ? I guess we shall see how it progresses...
20:57:15 <cwickert> I think we need to go into some details at least
20:57:38 <cwickert> I'm still trying to figure out what is different this time and therefor we need some details at least
20:57:49 <kital> i have a famsco report with a amount of money on it for media in emea - and i want to ask why are they not distributed - because nobody stepped up to pick them
20:57:53 <kital> right?
20:58:23 <cwickert> kital, then maybe you as a FAMSO member step up and write a mail?
20:58:28 <cwickert> otherwise I will do it
20:58:28 <kital> so if no ambassadors will step up - what is with them
20:58:37 <t2hot> !
20:58:48 <kital> cwickert: i wrote a lot about it ;)
20:59:16 <cwickert> kital, all i see are comlainants, not actual calls for action
20:59:56 <liknus> eof ?
21:00:12 <cwickert> liknus, so you are saying people sent you media on  spec without knowing any details? doesn't seem like good distribution method ether
21:00:15 <kital> cwickert: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-July/014900.html
21:01:07 <cwickert> kital, been there, next? that was *before* we agree on the proposal, what happened after that?
21:01:13 <liknus> cwickert, if you are into community you know what is going on... what events who is doing what etc... to much paperwork for a simple task is not good
21:02:14 <kital> cwickert: and this is also a call for action if you read the last line
21:02:28 <kital> cwickert: the community stepped up and told famsco we can handle
21:02:34 <kital> cwickert: so please handle
21:02:45 <kital> otherwise we turn back to normal for the next release
21:02:52 <kital> eof for today
21:03:15 <t2hot> !!!!
21:03:18 <liknus> t2hot,
21:03:52 <cwickert> kital, I'm not "the community", I'm only a very small part, but if nobody steps up, I guess I will just order 500 media and I will send them to every spot in EMEA. shipment really isn't that expensive, even for small batches. eof
21:04:04 <t2hot> meeting rules!
21:04:31 <liknus> t2hot, please go ahead
21:04:46 <liknus> cwickert, please ask for the token to speak :)
21:05:13 <t2hot> Its sad when we don't agree over an issue like this
21:05:56 <t2hot> What i see is a logistic problem on a sub-regional level.  If we had such structure we shouldn't be fighting here
21:06:28 <t2hot> I recall sspreitzer suggested we have anchor points within EMEA and have media sent to those points
21:07:06 <t2hot> We didn't establish those points -- this is the result
21:08:03 <t2hot> I'd suggest we define that structure so everybody knows who to blame when things start failing
21:08:36 <liknus> t2hot, the proposal had the anchor points. Sascha did not follow the proposal
21:08:41 <t2hot> eof
21:09:01 <cwickert> !!!
21:09:04 <liknus> cwickert,
21:09:56 <cwickert> liknus, sspreitzer DID follow that proposal, please stick to the facts
21:10:28 <cwickert> but nobody except heffer requested to become a local anchor point
21:10:29 <liknus> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_production#EMEA_2 <- this is the proposal .. Sascha is not following that
21:10:51 * t2hot thinks "see what I mean?"
21:10:58 <cwickert> liknus, how exactly is he not follwing?
21:11:06 <liknus> ok cwickert
21:11:10 <liknus> 1.
21:11:11 <kital> so i want to make clear this has nothing to do with a failure of sspreitzer!
21:11:23 <liknus> "A person nearby media production company should take all the media produced"
21:11:29 <liknus> this was done?
21:11:38 <liknus> That person ships most of the media to 6 key locations in Europe and keeps some for Germany (that locations should be Italy, UK, Belgium or NL, Greece, Hungary, and in someone willing to handle the Africa section possibly Isaac in Accra). The shipping costs for this initial thing will be around 250 Euros. Maybe Fedora EMEA e. V. can take over some of the costs.
21:11:44 <liknus> this was done?
21:11:53 <liknus> I dont need to continue
21:12:10 <cwickert> liknus, ho can he ship the media if nobody wanted to become an anchor point, not even you?
21:12:40 <liknus> cwickert, for gods sake :) it says Greece there...
21:12:59 <liknus> we are 4 guys here anyone could do the "anchor"
21:13:05 <kital> ok let us take some emotions out here
21:13:07 <cwickert> but it does not say "send X media to liknus, foo street, example town" :)
21:13:08 <liknus> you dont need to step up fot that
21:13:43 <kital> i think maybe famsco failed on that and should had acted sooner on that
21:13:46 <liknus> cwickert, ok my mistake :) next time it will say also at which time this should happen
21:14:23 <cwickert> the only person who stepped up is heffer. I am offering to help distributing the media everywhere and I don't care for the shipment costs or the size of the batches
21:14:29 <cwickert> we just need to make it happen
21:14:45 <cwickert> but then we still have only two anchors in Germany, nowhere else
21:15:04 <cwickert> I will write a mail and ask local leaders to step up, ok?
21:15:12 <liknus> none contacted the local communities asking for anchors
21:15:22 <liknus> yeap cwickert that is my point
21:15:35 <liknus> thanks for stepping up on that
21:15:42 <cwickert> liknus, ok, so I'm asking you now: how many media does greece need?
21:16:03 <cwickert> please send me your order by mail and I will try my very best to get them to you ASAP
21:16:08 <liknus> 300+300 for F13 cycle
21:16:09 <cwickert> TIA and eof :)
21:16:29 <liknus> ok cwickert I will get back to you
21:16:42 <liknus> please also keep in mnd the Africa media
21:17:15 <liknus> ok guys ,... anyone else on that?
21:17:28 * cmpahar sorry for being so late.. :)
21:17:36 * cmpahar hello to all
21:17:52 * liknus hi cmpahar
21:18:00 <liknus> #topic Events
21:18:10 <liknus> I think we covered it for FrosCon
21:18:20 <liknus> any other event for August?
21:18:42 <biertie> so, eth0 ?
21:18:54 <biertie> but we already covered that too I think :-)
21:19:30 <liknus> biertie, what are your plans for eth-0?
21:19:57 <biertie> just spread the world
21:20:06 <biertie> I might do a talk, but not sure yet, we'll see what happens there
21:20:19 <biertie> it's a 4 days camping event
21:20:29 <biertie> so if I find enough stickers, I'll brand every tent with a fedora sticker ;)
21:20:45 <liknus> sounds amazing biertie :) keep us updated and we will love some photos!
21:20:53 <liknus> (I would love to come btw0
21:20:55 <liknus> )
21:21:05 <biertie> so, book a plane, and come over ;)
21:21:20 <biertie> but (accoring to my student budget) the price is a bit $$
21:21:20 <biertie> :)
21:21:31 <liknus> I am having excavations this period... anyway :)
21:21:42 <liknus> Any other event?
21:22:28 <liknus> #topic OpenFloor
21:22:40 <biertie> there is guadec too, but that's pure gnome of course :)
21:22:40 <liknus> we shall end this meeting in 5 min
21:22:58 <liknus> biertie, i think that there is going to be some Fedora talks there
21:24:10 <kital> ah i have another topic
21:24:30 <liknus> kital, go ahead my friend
21:25:29 <kital> i got a request this week - Fedora is asked to attend Software Freedom Day Berlin
21:25:35 <kital> 18th September, 2010
21:25:44 <kital> right now we have no event owner
21:26:01 <kital> http://linuxwiki.de/SoftwareFreedomDay
21:27:47 <liknus> kital, I guess you should bring that up on the list
21:28:06 <kital> lets see
21:28:09 <kital> ;)
21:28:17 <biertie> I guess you need someone who speaks german? ;-)
21:29:02 * cwickert has no time in september, sorry
21:29:41 <liknus> ok guys 30''left
21:29:56 <kital> biertie: probably yes
21:30:27 <kital> yes lets go - btw we have to take care to be more focused and faster on our topics from my pov
21:30:30 <liknus> 5''
21:30:45 <liknus> kital, point noted :)
21:30:49 <liknus> #endmeeting