15:00:04 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:00:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 20 15:00:04 2010 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:09 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:21 <jlaska> #topic Gathering carbon units
15:00:55 <jlaska> alright ... show of limbs, who do we have lurking?
15:01:39 * Viking-Ice ...
15:01:46 <jlaska> Hi Viking-Ice
15:01:50 * hircus !
15:02:06 * kparal here
15:02:19 <jlaska> welcome hircus + kparal
15:02:38 * Oxf13 
15:02:51 * wwoods 
15:03:35 <jlaska> Oxf13: welcome from CEST
15:04:11 <jlaska> wwoods arrived in a shoe?
15:04:42 <jlaska> do we have adamw lurking in the shadows?
15:04:51 <jlaska> if not, we'll save the F-14-Beta update until the end
15:05:03 * dgilmore is around
15:05:12 <jlaska> dgilmore: hi
15:05:29 <jlaska> okay, let's get started ...
15:05:31 <saccia> morning people :-)
15:05:45 <jlaska> saccia: howdy
15:05:51 <jlaska> #topic Previous Meeting follow-up
15:06:09 <jlaska> This will be quick ... since I see no action items from last weeks meetbot minutes
15:06:28 <jlaska> shout if I missed something, otherwise I'll move on
15:07:06 <jlaska> alright ... skipping F-14-Beta status for now ... we'll come back to that when adamw has arrived
15:07:13 <jlaska> #topic Fedora 14 Test Days
15:07:50 <jlaska> The installer keymap/lang event last week seems to have been quite successful in terms of bugs
15:08:13 <jlaska> looks like good participation on the wiki, that's always positive
15:08:25 <jlaska> #info installer keymap/lang test day recap - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2010-September/000133.html
15:08:43 <jlaska> in case you aren't subscribed to test@ or test-announce@ see the link above for the recap from Igor
15:09:03 <jlaska> next up ... Virtualization this Thursday
15:09:22 <jlaska> #info Sep 23 - Virtualization Test Day - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2010-09-23_Virtualization
15:09:36 <jlaska> jforbes: nice, the wiki is coming along
15:10:09 <jlaska> jforbes: anything we can do to help keep this event focused?
15:10:40 <jforbes> jlaska: nope, getting the last of it up today, and going to send out an email to fedora-vert
15:10:45 <jforbes> err virt even :)
15:11:21 <jlaska> heh ... okay, adamw or I (anyone else encouraged) can hit up Fedora planet with a post about the event as well
15:11:53 <jforbes> Yeah, I will do that too
15:11:56 <jlaska> jforbes: were there specific features you wanted covered for this event, or is this more of a general virt testing theme?
15:12:12 <jforbes> more general, but spice will be covered
15:12:13 * jlaska always worried that we try to fit too much into a single virt test day
15:12:42 <jlaska> hmm, wonder if it would make sense to theme it around spice?
15:12:55 <hircus> some of the packages listed in "Update your machine" are not the latest as of today. Perhaps the page can be updated? esp. for the kernel version
15:12:58 <jforbes> Not sure how much of an audience spice will have
15:13:27 <jforbes> hircus: The page will be updated on wednesday, as there will be updates between now and then
15:13:28 <jlaska> jforbes: is that hardware specific, or just new enough that we wouldn't have a lot of participation
15:14:27 <jforbes> jlaska: both limited audience due to desktop nature, and lack of libvirt/virt-manager integration will make it less user/tester friendly
15:14:39 <jlaska> jforbes: aah, I see (re: the integration portion)
15:14:59 <jforbes> But we also have people who will come to test that who would not otherwise participate, it does have a lot of interest
15:15:31 <jlaska> nice!
15:16:00 <jlaska> jforbes: well, shout if you need help/guidance on the wiki setup (shouting in #fedora-qa helps)
15:16:14 <jforbes> jlaska: will do, thanks
15:16:25 <jlaska> following virtualization, we have the always well attended ... <drumroll>
15:16:39 <jlaska> #info Sept 28-30 - Graphics test week
15:16:56 <jlaska> Adam has wiki pages in place already, so it looks like things are in good shape
15:17:08 <jlaska> I'm sure we'll know more later in the week
15:17:22 <jlaska> that's all I had on test days
15:17:44 <jlaska> next up ... autoqa
15:17:57 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA Package Update Acceptance
15:18:18 <jlaska> wwoods: do you want to kick things off?
15:18:37 * kparal noticed a flood of new patches lately
15:19:03 <jlaska> kparal: you can blame me for some of those
15:19:42 <kparal> how much can happen in just a few days
15:20:01 <kparal> until wwoods wake up, I'll just note that I presented AutoQA in FUDCon this weekend
15:20:08 <kparal> you can see the slides here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Presentations
15:20:27 <kparal> unfortunately there are no recordings of the talk
15:20:28 <jlaska> well, I pushed out autoqa-0.4.1-1, and then tried to fix several quick bugs I found so you had a mostly functional autoqa for your talk (autoqa-0.4.2-1)
15:20:45 * wwoods appears
15:20:54 <jlaska> kparal: nice blog posts on the subject as well
15:21:02 <Oxf13> it was a nice talk
15:21:20 <Oxf13> there was some genuine interest in the audience, and I apologize for hijacking the talk by answering some of the questions :)
15:21:35 <kparal> Oxf13: thank you for that
15:22:00 * kparal leaves mic to wwoods
15:22:31 <wwoods> so, work on depcheck continues, albeit slowly
15:22:34 <jlaska> #info kparal gave AutoQA presentation at FUDCon Zurich - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Presentations
15:23:19 <wwoods> more interesting, we merged the 'multitests' branch into master, so now we should have proper support for multihook tests and things
15:23:46 <wwoods> but that's all kparal and jskladan's work, so hooray for them
15:23:55 <jlaska> which makes me wonder whether the test result mails should prefix the subject with the hookname?  But that's a detail for autoqa-devel@
15:24:08 <wwoods> jlaska: is that stuff in 0.4.2 or are we still shooting for an 0.4.5 (or similar) release for that?
15:24:28 <wwoods> jlaska: good point - and yes, let's discuss that on the list
15:24:30 <lmacken> wwoods: bodhi should start utilizing the new pending tags today... rolling the code out as we speak.
15:24:40 <jlaska> wwoods: 0.4.2 is the current release ... mainly due to my failure to read the list before tagging 0.4.1
15:25:03 <wwoods> lmacken: excellent! jskladan gave me some code demonstrating how we can use mash with or without a tag
15:25:23 <wwoods> so I'll be writing some unittests to prove the mashing / multilib stuff works as expected in depcheck
15:25:28 <lmacken> wwoods: oh, interesting.
15:25:28 <wwoods> and then soon we'll actually wire it up
15:25:38 <lmacken> sounds good
15:26:07 <jlaska> #info lmacken noted that bodhi should start utilizing new 'pending' tags today
15:28:16 <jlaska> wwoods: anything other updates?
15:28:24 <wwoods> oh - I updated the Updates Lessons page
15:28:30 <wwoods> with information about the nss-softokn problem
15:28:43 <wwoods> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Lessons
15:28:46 <jlaska> wwoods: oh right, thank you ... that one was a bit complex
15:29:15 <jlaska> wwoods: what's the next milestone for the depcheck test?
15:29:28 <jlaska> I saw a ticket update from jskladan last week that he got something working with mash
15:30:37 <jlaska> kparal: anything we need to get on the radar based on the feedback from your talk?
15:31:02 <wwoods> jlaska: right - next milestones are getting depcheck using mash - to make sure its input matches what bodhi would push
15:31:30 <wwoods> and making depcheck do an RPM test transaction - like yum does - to make sure its test matches what yum would do on people's systems
15:31:41 <jlaska> this is for capturing file conflicts?
15:32:01 <kparal> jlaska: I received comments mainly on whitelisting rpmlint output and using beaker. the first thing is being solved on our ML, but I had still no time to read through it. the second thing can be discussed later, I think it's still not fully opensource yet
15:32:05 <hircus> jlaska: one suggestion I recall from the talk is having Koji integration for AutoQA
15:32:42 <jlaska> hircus: "integration"?
15:33:07 <wwoods> jlaska: yes
15:33:11 <kparal> I think hircus means what I had in my slides. showing autoqa results right next to the newly built packages in Koji page
15:33:25 <wwoods> ah, integration in the web frontend. yes, that would be cool
15:33:38 <kparal> hircus: yes, we have it in our plans :)
15:33:55 <jlaska> which we are hand-waving and referring to as "resultsdb" for now
15:34:02 <hircus> another aspect that some people were asking is to do the local builds inside mock / koji
15:34:05 <jlaska> resultsdb - the magic test results web service
15:34:27 <kparal> ah, yes. I wasn't able to answer those mock questions
15:34:36 <wwoods> that's... not really a QA problem
15:34:54 <jlaska> #info wwoods and jskladan continue to work on depcheck and integration with mash
15:35:19 <jlaska> hircus: yeah, what wwoods said.  Was this specific to something about QA, or just general mock/koji?
15:36:14 <jlaska> alright ... anything else on the autoqa front?
15:36:19 <jlaska> if not ... we'll dive into F-14-Beta
15:36:23 <jlaska> (head first)
15:36:38 <hircus> it's QA related, in a way -- I could imagine autoqa tests would be more reproducible if you can control the local environment
15:37:39 <jlaska> hircus: autoqa tests are designed to be easy to run and not require a lot of setup/prep
15:37:55 <hircus> fair enough
15:38:10 <jlaska> if there are some specifics that are painful to work with ... do speak up  though
15:38:25 <jlaska> but for now, let's take that to autoqa-devel@ for further discussion
15:38:39 <jlaska> #topic F-14 Beta Testing
15:38:58 <jlaska> adamw isn't around, so I'll go off of current status based on F14Beta and several email threads
15:39:24 <jlaska> RC#2 contains the following open F14Beta blocker bugs ..
15:39:27 <jlaska> 635396 - ConsoleKit session not properly opened (xfce)
15:39:27 <jlaska> 635395 - ConsoleKit session not properly opened (lxde)
15:39:27 <jlaska> 635332 - FC14 Beta RC2 i386 netinstall fails to boot
15:39:28 <jlaska> 635330 - Boot menu is missing in F14 Beta RC2 install discs
15:39:50 <jlaska> the last is clearly a blocker, given the recently added criteria around artwork
15:40:14 <jlaska> I'm still trying to gather more information around the RC2 netinstall failure, I've not had any problems with netinstalls so far
15:40:28 <Oxf13> I'm really interested in a retrospective as to why 396 and 395 were found so late
15:40:40 <jlaska> And the first 2 issues (ConsoleKit) are fairly major for both spins
15:40:41 <saccia> jlaska: I experience this with more than netinstall.... I've updated the bug with what happened
15:40:48 <jlaska> Oxf13: likewise, /me adds
15:41:01 <saccia> the "Where to install bootloader" screen doesn't appear even though I have two drives
15:41:09 * nirik is having trouble duplicating 635396
15:41:44 <saccia> I also might consider adding https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=622694 as a beta blocker too if it seems fair
15:42:12 <jlaska> saccia: do you get the screen where you get to pick the 2 drives
15:42:17 <jlaska> for install/boot devices?
15:42:27 <jlaska> and it has the radio button to choose which drive to install the bootloader
15:42:36 <saccia> jlaska: no... I took "screen shots" that show it appears in alpha but not in RC1/RC2
15:43:35 <jlaska> saccia: I believe that screen depends on your drive and partition selections, but let's continue to diagnose that after the meeting in #fedora-qa
15:44:03 <jlaska> with regards to the mouse click, I'm still not able to reproduce
15:44:12 <jlaska> but it seems that two of you are seeing this problem on test@
15:44:39 <dgilmore> jlaska: do we have all the info on the setups? video cards, type of mouse and how its connected?
15:45:08 <jlaska> dgilmore: not in the bug mentioned above
15:45:31 <dgilmore> jlaska: seems like we need to know more about the hardware people are having issues on
15:45:32 <jlaska> the bug mentions another issue, 632431, which I'd consider a feature request
15:45:39 <jlaska> dgilmore: of course, agreed
15:46:02 <jlaska> so, summary ... F14Beta is accurate for what we know right now
15:46:27 <jlaska> and there are 2 issues under discussion (those noted by saccia) to determine their impact to users
15:46:27 <saccia> dgilmore: if you can add something in the bug detailing how to get whatever logs/info you need I'll be happy to get that info
15:46:31 <dgilmore> jlaska: at the leastw e are going to need anaconda and likely a ConsoleKit update
15:46:36 <jlaska> dgilmore: yeah
15:46:44 <jlaska> on top of this ... we need to complete the planned testing
15:46:54 <jlaska> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Installation_Test
15:47:01 <jlaska> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Desktop_Test
15:47:36 <jlaska> with the late start and respins ... we're obviously short on test time
15:48:04 <dgilmore> jlaska: go/nogo is wednesday?
15:48:04 <jlaska> I think sticking with the phrase 'at risk' also accurately describes QA testing for F-14-Beta
15:48:21 <jlaska> dgilmore: you got it ... Wed 2010-09-22
15:48:37 <jlaska> #info 2010-09-22 -  Fedora 14 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting (17:00 EST)
15:48:39 <dgilmore> jlaska: ok so we really need to get rc3 done today
15:48:41 <Oxf13> time == crunch
15:49:11 <jlaska> dgilmore: yeah, by end of day today at least
15:49:16 <dgilmore> jlaska: do you feell that testing rc2 livecds for desktop is ok?
15:49:31 <jlaska> dgilmore: sorry, can you rephrase?
15:50:04 <dgilmore> jlaska: should i try do some testing with the livecds today while waiting for fixes?  or best to wait for rc3
15:50:20 <jlaska> dgilmore: oh I see ... I'd go ahead and test anyway
15:50:30 <jlaska> I'm doing my best to fill out results in the install matrix using RC2
15:51:04 <jlaska> any other questions/concerns around F-14-Beta?
15:51:05 <robatino> some tests can be marked as fail just because of the missing boot menu
15:51:14 <robatino> memtest for example
15:51:23 <jlaska> robatino: good point, I haven't marked those as fail yet
15:51:40 <Oxf13> I wonder if we need a new indicator
15:51:40 * jlaska trying to knock out the hardware, partitioning, updates and traceback cases
15:51:46 <Oxf13> blocked vs pass/fail
15:52:40 <jlaska> Oxf13: meh ... no real opinion there ... I'm happy to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Result if there is overwhelming desire for blocked
15:53:11 <Oxf13> not sure if it's overwhelming, just wondering if a blocked test means anything different to us than a failed test
15:53:36 <jlaska> right now, I haven't found a big need to distinguish between the two
15:53:42 <Oxf13> some sort of relational test matrix would help
15:53:51 <jlaska> you're right, it certainly has different meaning
15:54:10 <jlaska> The <ref name="..."> has helped for re-using existing bugs/failures for test results
15:54:29 <jlaska> so at least we have a mostly unique list of bugs in the References section
15:54:58 <jlaska> alright ... any other F-14-Beta thoughts?
15:55:00 <Oxf13> k
15:55:22 <jlaska> if not ...
15:55:29 <jlaska> #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>
15:55:48 <jlaska> thoughts/comments/concerns/hicu
15:56:40 <jlaska> if not ... let's close this out in 2 minutes and get back to F-14-Beta
15:56:42 <Oxf13> haikus are easy; But sometimes they don't make sense; Refrigerator
15:56:55 <bcl> bz#627789
15:57:12 <jlaska> Oxf13: thank you for proper spelling! :)
15:57:22 <Oxf13> Southern_Gentlem: care to join #fedora-devel and talk about your respin issue?
15:57:30 <bcl> It didn't make it into f14-beta-branch, and I'm hitting it when I use livecd tools to make a usb stick with the DVD iso.
15:58:10 <bcl> I probably shouldn't have closed it as fixed in rawhide. But I also don't see a large number of other reports on it.
15:58:23 <jlaska> bcl: only 1 dup so far
15:58:38 <jlaska> "
15:58:38 <jlaska> "Problem was a race between unmounting the iso and deactivating the loopback.
15:58:41 <jlaska> mount can now handle mounting iso's with loop without needing losetup."
15:59:08 <jlaska> bcl: is this a fix we need to consider for F14Beta?
15:59:41 <bcl> I think so, but that's because I keep hitting it with my usage :)
15:59:48 <saccia> haiku Fedora 14 / Is still very green and new / More tests must we do
15:59:50 <jlaska> #info 627789 - Error setting up repository - 16, Device busy
16:00:15 <jlaska> saccia: kudos :)
16:00:41 <jlaska> bcl: I'll ping you in #anaconda afterwards to understand more about this
16:00:46 <bcl> ok
16:01:03 <jlaska> alright gang ... thanks for your time.  I'm calling end of meeting
16:01:13 <jlaska> happy testing :)
16:01:18 <wwoods> thanks jlaska!
16:01:18 <jlaska> #endmeeting