17:01:36 <sochotni> #startmeeting Java SIG -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Java
17:01:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep 21 17:01:36 2010 UTC.  The chair is sochotni. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:02:01 <sochotni> #topic roll-call
17:02:30 <sochotni> who's here for another historical event that Java SIG meetings are becoming? :-)
17:02:36 <mbooth> Evenin'
17:02:48 <akurtakov> I'm here too :)
17:02:52 <akurtakov> hey mbooth
17:03:02 <cspike> heyho!
17:03:25 <sochotni> heya everyone
17:04:12 <sochotni> so...4 of us?
17:04:30 <akurtakov> yep
17:04:34 <mbooth> Looks that way
17:04:35 <sochotni> #info present: akurtakov cspike mbooth sochotni
17:04:41 <cspike> that's not really much :)
17:04:54 <sochotni> yeah, considering how many people wanted to help out...
17:05:10 <sochotni> maybe the time is bad for them. I'll ask on fedora-java I guess
17:05:11 <mbooth> Sorry I missed the first meeting, btw
17:05:18 * cspike too
17:05:22 <cspike> mostly :)
17:05:31 <akurtakov> people will join only after we improve the situation
17:05:33 <sochotni> mbooth, cspike: we all have lives outside Fedora..
17:05:44 <sochotni> akurtakov: Yeah, I guess so
17:05:54 <sochotni> #info few dedicated people can make a difference!
17:05:59 <sochotni> :-)
17:06:20 <sochotni> so let's go on with the meeting
17:06:28 <sochotni> #topic New java review template
17:06:51 <sochotni> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Java_review_template New review for packager/reviewers
17:07:13 <sochotni> I created this using https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BernardJohnson/ReviewTemplate as a template..
17:07:32 <sochotni> bozhidar suggested adding links to documentation where appropriate
17:07:46 <sochotni> this could be extended more I guess
17:07:55 <sochotni> Any improvements are welcome
17:08:00 <akurtakov> it looks good to me, I'll do a review using it to see whether we miss smth
17:08:19 <akurtakov> but it looks really good on the first side
17:08:29 <cspike> this isn't build method specific, is it?
17:08:30 <sochotni> yes...I'd like to ask yout all to start reviewing using that template...
17:08:34 <sochotni> so we can make it better
17:08:44 <mbooth> Do you think it could mention known false positives from rpmlint, like "W: non-conffile-in-etc /etc/maven/fragments/msv" ?
17:08:45 <sochotni> cspike: it's geared more towards maven I am afraid
17:09:22 <cspike> that's why i asked... there are some minimal requirements mentions in the maven faq that are not present in this template
17:09:22 <akurtakov> cspike: it shouldn't be build method specific but there should be checks for common problems with different build systems
17:09:24 <sochotni> #action sochotni improve template to mention common rpmlint warnings/errors for java
17:10:15 <sochotni> cspike: current Maven template has for example BR on java >= 1:1.6.0
17:10:19 <sochotni> that's what you mean right?
17:10:25 <cspike> for example
17:10:33 <sochotni> but it's not really needed sometimes...
17:10:46 <sochotni> because you can have BR on some package that has 1.6.0 as a Requires
17:10:50 <akurtakov> it is needed everytime you build javadoc thanks to doxia
17:11:11 <sochotni> I mean that stating it explicitly is not needed
17:11:25 <sochotni> it gets pulled in through dependencies
17:11:25 <cspike> what about jpackage-utils?
17:11:55 <akurtakov> cspike: what about it ?
17:12:12 <sochotni> Packages using maven have proper BuildRequires/Requires(post) on jpackage-utils
17:12:14 <cspike> just a sec, trying to find the wiki page
17:12:36 <sochotni> cspike: I guess you mean that sentence ^^
17:12:57 <sochotni> yeah, I should drop "maven" part...or split this into two rules
17:13:20 <sochotni> because only maven really needs Requires(post) on jpackage-utils
17:13:23 <cspike> yeah, pretty much. afair maven packages need (at least according to the wiki) jpackage-utils as BR
17:13:48 * pingou is late
17:13:59 <cspike> maybe you shouldn't split them but add an extra section at the end
17:14:14 <sochotni> cspike: maven/ant specifics?
17:14:17 <cspike> like you did with the 'suggested' stuff
17:14:18 <sochotni> yeah, could be
17:14:19 <cspike> yeah
17:14:26 <sochotni> ok, good...consider it done
17:14:37 <sochotni> any more suggestions...write me an email
17:14:53 <sochotni> #action sochotni split maven/ant specifics in review template
17:14:57 <akurtakov> I like the ant/maven specific separation too
17:15:17 <mbooth> Any java package that uses the build-jar-repository or build-classpath commands in the spec file shou;d require jpackage-utils
17:15:25 <mbooth> Right?
17:15:48 <mbooth> Which is not necessarily only maven packages
17:15:50 <sochotni> BR, yes
17:16:03 <sochotni> any package that places files inside /usr/share/java actually
17:16:11 <sochotni> because jpackage-utils owns that dir
17:16:30 <sochotni> ok, let's move on...we have more things to cover
17:16:37 <sochotni> #topic Common java packaging problems and how to fix them
17:16:40 <akurtakov> well, openjdk really requires jpakcage-utils so this shouldn't be a problem
17:17:12 <sochotni> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Java_packaging_common_problems Java packaging help
17:17:27 <sochotni> I added section about plexus-container-default today, but it should be improved a bit..
17:17:50 <sochotni> just a quick hack...
17:18:02 <sochotni> but please if you encounter some bug again and again...add it there
17:18:17 <cspike> looks good to me
17:18:23 <akurtakov> it would be good to point out some problems when building eclipse plugins
17:18:41 <akurtakov> I guess this is something mbooth or I would have to do
17:18:44 <sochotni> akurtakov: that's your area of expertise :-)
17:18:56 <sochotni> by all means...add/improve
17:19:06 <cspike> btw, are there plans to get rid of the second plexus-container-default package?
17:19:13 <mbooth> Yes, akurtakov, I will see if anything eclipse specific comes to mind
17:19:20 <sochotni> cspike: plans...yes...but as of now that's not so easy
17:19:34 <cspike> :(
17:19:39 <cspike> thought so
17:19:51 <sochotni> yeah, mainly plexus packages still depend on that old one..
17:19:54 <sochotni> it's really a mess
17:20:11 <sochotni> I'll be reviewing my plexus packages to see if something can be done..
17:20:40 <sochotni> #agreed continue improving tips & tricks for packaging java
17:21:00 <akurtakov> yeah, this can happen only as a part of bigger overview of plexus situation
17:21:04 <sochotni> #action mbooth akurtakov add tips for packaging specific to eclipse plugins
17:21:15 <akurtakov> e.g. retiring plexus-maven-plugin
17:21:37 <sochotni> akurtakov: yes, plexus-maven-plugin can be retired it seems
17:22:01 <sochotni> #topic Current list of "critical java packages"
17:22:13 <sochotni> unfortunately no time to actually make the list
17:22:25 <sochotni> I believe that's the same for akurtakov...deferred to next meeting
17:22:57 <akurtakov> sorry, I haven't managed to do much
17:23:09 <sochotni> #action akurtakov sochotni prepare list of critical java packages (deferred from previous meeting)
17:23:27 <sochotni> #topic Current status on Java wiki pages
17:23:44 <sochotni> hmm, bozhidar is not here...and he had a proposal
17:24:04 <sochotni> currently Java and Java/FAQ pages contain a lot of references to GCJ
17:24:17 <akurtakov> gcj should go to separate page
17:24:23 <sochotni> he'd like to move them into a separate page to not confuse newcomers
17:24:31 <akurtakov> it's irrelevant to most users
17:24:48 <mbooth> Yeah, are we officially encouraging *not* packaging aot bits now?
17:25:18 <sochotni> from current wiki: Note that AOT compilation using GCJ has been deprecated (made optional) and new or updated packages will be built using OpenJDK to produce regular Java bytecode.
17:25:20 <akurtakov> mbooth: this is something I'll try to push through the package committee
17:25:50 <mbooth> ok
17:26:02 <sochotni> ok..
17:26:26 <sochotni> #action bozhidar will split GCJ relevant information on wiki into separate pages
17:26:56 <sochotni> ^^ that action won't work since he's not here though :/
17:27:09 <sochotni> #topic New packaging guidelines
17:27:10 <pingou> as long as he reads the minutes
17:27:20 <mbooth> Biggest problem is http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/GCJGuidelines which says "GCJ AOT bits SHOULD be built and included in packages" :-/
17:27:22 <akurtakov> I believe he has it on his todo list
17:27:41 <sochotni> yes we talked about that today actually
17:27:57 <sochotni> mbooth: that's not really happening currently though
17:28:01 <akurtakov> mbooth: I have to prepare new packaging guidelines
17:28:11 <akurtakov> to reflect current best practices
17:28:16 <sochotni> we are NOT doing that (I know I am not)
17:28:27 <akurtakov> sadly, I haven't found the time for it last week
17:28:49 <mbooth> Ok, y'all seem have it under control :-)
17:28:52 <sochotni> akurtakov: any idea if you'll have time in the coming weeks?
17:29:18 <sochotni> maybe someone else can help out here
17:29:33 <akurtakov> sochotni: I'll try but if someone else has the time go for it
17:30:07 <akurtakov> I'll be more than happy to review changes instead of doing them :)
17:30:17 <sochotni> #action akurtakov will try to prepare new Packaging Guidelines, but help would be appreciated (deferred from previous meeting)
17:30:32 <sochotni> akurtakov: :-) I am sure
17:31:01 <sochotni> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Abo/JavaPackagingDraftUpdateWithChanges Previous Java packaging draft
17:31:10 <sochotni> akurtakov: ^^ that might be of interest perhaps?
17:31:32 <akurtakov> I remember talking with him about these changes
17:31:38 <cspike> wow, that one's a mess
17:31:49 <akurtakov> but it never got finished
17:33:10 <sochotni> hmm, ok...let's see what happens
17:33:28 <sochotni> #topic current FTBFSs for Java packages
17:33:42 <sochotni> sadly I forgot to prepare handy bugzilla link..
17:33:58 <cspike> shame on you
17:34:26 <akurtakov> well, I've got 4 maven FTBFS left
17:34:48 <sochotni> I'm down to 0 after removing plexus-registry
17:35:14 <sochotni> cspike, mbooth: any idea how many you have left?
17:35:26 <cspike> rmic-maven-plugin should be the only one
17:35:49 <cspike> yup, one for me
17:35:50 <mbooth> I have 3 left to fix, I have commited fixes for the rest of mine
17:36:18 <akurtakov> mbooth: you've updated emf*/mdt* ?
17:36:23 <sochotni> ok...I guess it's not so bad considering with how many we started :-)
17:36:50 <orionp> Is there a known problem building eclipse plugins on F15?
17:36:55 <akurtakov> yeah, I've fixed smth like 20
17:37:00 <akurtakov> orionp: it should be fixed now
17:37:20 <akurtakov> orionp: jjohnstn fixed xulrunner issue and I've fixed jsp-api and webkit issue
17:37:30 <sochotni> mbooth: actually...that validator FTBFS...have you renamed it to apache-?
17:37:46 <mbooth> Just eclipse-emf-* are waiting for eclipse-mdt-* to go into the buildroot
17:38:25 <orionp> akurtatov: Ah, I see that there is a new eclipse build.  I'll try with that soon.  Thanks.
17:38:35 <sochotni> I completely forgot about that Jakarta rename..
17:38:42 <mbooth> No, commons-validator is one of the ones I haven't done yet
17:38:58 <akurtakov> mbooth: finishing jakarta rename will help us mess-- :)
17:39:18 <sochotni> hmm, I am not sure it would be good to rename it in F-14 now..
17:39:45 <sochotni> build-jar-repository in package will fail
17:39:49 <akurtakov> definetly only in rawhide
17:39:53 <sochotni> s/package/packages/
17:40:15 <cspike> is this up2date? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JakartaCommonsRename
17:40:24 <mbooth> akurtakov: I know, I'm just starting to get some time to catch on all this fedora work :-)
17:40:38 <sochotni> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JakartaCommonsRename Jakarta to Apache package renames
17:40:44 <akurtakov> cspike: yes it is
17:41:15 <cspike> are you guys sure, you don't want to do this before f14
17:41:44 <akurtakov> cspike: this will invalidate any testing done
17:41:44 <cspike> mixed jakarta/apache commons in f14 is really ugly
17:41:49 <sochotni> cspike: It could be done, but we risk breaking a lot of java packages
17:41:59 <akurtakov> cspike: a number of packages will break at runtime
17:42:02 <sochotni> cspike: ugly, but at least it's working
17:42:14 <cspike> okok, just asking... :)
17:42:18 <akurtakov> beacuse they are using jakarta-commosn*.jar names
17:42:18 <mbooth> It might be worth checking if all the packages that have been renamed have been blocked from dist-f14 and filing rel-eng tickets for those that aren't....
17:42:38 <sochotni> mbooth: can you please do it?
17:42:50 <akurtakov> some info from pingou: http://fpaste.org/m3os/
17:42:54 <mbooth> sochotni: yes, I can do that
17:43:00 <mbooth> Also: is comps.xml up to date regarding these packages?
17:43:01 <sochotni> mbooth: great, thanks
17:43:26 <sochotni> #action mbooth will check if renamed jakarta packages have been removed from dist-f14
17:43:40 <sochotni> mbooth: not all, there is a bug for that
17:44:07 <sochotni> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=592622 tracking bug for comps.xml s/jakarta/apache/
17:44:57 <cspike> what about adding a provides apache-commons* to those packages that aren't renamed yet?
17:45:05 <cspike> bad idea?
17:45:28 <sochotni> cspike: simple provides won't hurt anything
17:45:40 <akurtakov> but they want help much either
17:45:56 <sochotni> at least we'll be able to use new package names in BRs/Rs on subsequent updates
17:46:12 <cspike> yeah, and people are able to find the packages via yum
17:46:21 <akurtakov> yep, but mbooth would better spend his time updating them :)
17:46:30 <sochotni> true
17:46:33 <akurtakov> it's mostly his packages now with one for jmrodri
17:46:43 <skvidal> simple provides can be installed by with yum, too
17:46:44 <mbooth> I'm fine with doing renames in F15 only from this point forward...
17:46:53 <skvidal> yum install provide_you_are_looking_for
17:46:55 <skvidal> will work
17:47:27 <cspike> ok, but is only 4 locs. can be done in 5minutes. if there is no time to finish the renaming, that's a least a start
17:47:40 <cspike> 1loc for every package :)
17:47:40 <sochotni> let's consider this purely optional, but nice to have :-)
17:48:12 <akurtakov> it's upto mbooth or whoever else won't to help him
17:49:10 <sochotni> ok, I guess that's everything for FTBFSs?
17:49:20 <sochotni> open floor or anything I forgot?
17:49:38 <sochotni> #topic Maven-3 update
17:49:44 <akurtakov> sochotni: maven 3 status update and areas you are looking for help
17:50:07 <sochotni> I have 3 packages for review (1 taken, 1 depends on the first one, 3rd one will be taken by akurtakov as agreed earlier) :-)
17:50:39 <sochotni> anyone willing to speed things is is welcome..I have at least one package for you to package
17:51:00 <sochotni> http://github.com/sonatype/sisu-guice
17:51:04 <mbooth> Is there a list?
17:51:08 <sochotni> #link http://github.com/sonatype/sisu-guice sisu-guice needs packaging
17:51:22 <sochotni> mbooth: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MavenUpdate#Maven_3
17:51:32 <sochotni> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MavenUpdate#Maven_3 Current status of Maven3 dependencies
17:51:36 <akurtakov> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=633215 needs reviewing so we can get freemind in
17:51:37 <sochotni> I'll have to update it though
17:51:54 <akurtakov> mbooth: some clarification we need guice  first
17:52:11 <akurtakov> and it's guice trunk
17:52:16 <akurtakov> soon to be guice 3
17:52:40 <sochotni> some of those packages listed there as a dep are already being packaged by me...
17:52:50 <sochotni> I'll be updating that page after the meeting
17:53:09 <mbooth> Right-o
17:53:10 <sochotni> #action update wiki of maven-3 dependencies status
17:53:15 <sochotni> #undo
17:53:15 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b7d2d516c50>
17:53:18 <sochotni> #action sochotni update wiki of maven-3 dependencies status
17:53:42 <sochotni> One can't but love that helpful message :-)
17:54:05 <akurtakov> mbooth: aether is something else that should be pretty much standalone
17:54:55 <akurtakov> is there smth else pending?
17:55:12 <sochotni> #topic open-floor
17:55:39 <sochotni> I wanted to ask if it would be possible to have packagers add "Java" into whiteboard instead of using wiki for collecting Java reviews
17:55:54 <sochotni> seems easier to me, no need to remove old bugs from wiki etc
17:56:05 <mbooth> Seems sensible :-)
17:56:07 <akurtakov> sounds good to me
17:56:10 <pingou> whiteboard ?
17:56:22 <akurtakov> maybe creating a template adding that ?
17:56:30 <akurtakov> in the same way we have the generic one now ?
17:56:41 <mbooth> pingou: in bugzilla there is a whiteboard field
17:57:12 <pingou> mbooth: ok, thanks
17:57:15 <sochotni> akurtakov: is is possible to create custom template? I have no idea
17:57:48 <sochotni> akurtakov: I mean in a way that's globally accessible
17:58:24 <akurtakov> no idea
17:58:43 <akurtakov> but I've seen templates used in a number of places and it looks easier
17:59:17 <sochotni> #action akurtakov will figure out if we can use custom template or we'll be adding "java" into whiteboard for reviews :-)
17:59:31 <sochotni> another meeting probably starting soon..
17:59:52 <sochotni> so..anything else => mailing list or wait 2 weeks
18:00:00 <pingou> see attachment, QTL on chromosome 6, trait 1, HK method
18:00:02 <pingou> I have the code to produce more like these.
18:00:07 <pingou> oups wrong paste
18:00:17 <sochotni> #endmeeting