15:00:47 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:00:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 27 15:00:47 2010 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:50 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:57 * fenris02 waves
15:01:05 <jlaska> #topic Gathering critical mass
15:01:10 <jlaska> adamw: fenris02: welcome
15:01:13 * kparal jumps
15:01:26 <saccia> I've got my haiku ready :-)
15:01:37 * j_dulaney is finally back online
15:01:58 <jlaska> saccia: good!
15:02:01 <jlaska> j_dulaney: welcome back :)
15:02:19 <jlaska> kparal: greetings
15:02:42 <jlaska> will get started in another minute
15:03:57 * wwoods here
15:04:05 <jlaska> wwoods: hey hey!
15:04:24 <jlaska> kparal: we're without jskladan and mkrizek today, right?
15:04:46 <jlaska> #chair kparal adamw
15:04:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw jlaska kparal
15:04:49 <kparal> jlaska: that's right
15:04:54 * tk009 thinks jlaska is a bit to chipper for a monday.
15:04:56 <j_dulaney> I appologize for not making any meetings or doing any work in the last while
15:05:00 <jlaska> tk009: :)
15:05:16 <jlaska> kparal: adamw: I may need help from one of you to carry the meeting forward after the 30min mark
15:05:22 <jlaska> #topic Previous Meeting follow-up
15:05:29 <jlaska> This was easy ...
15:05:40 <jlaska> #info [All] - please help test the beta
15:05:56 <jlaska> and I just spoke with All, and [s]he said the work was completed!
15:06:16 <adamw> go all!
15:06:17 <j_dulaney> LOL
15:06:26 <jlaska> seriously though, I'm still impressed at the test turn-out we had for F-14-Beta-RCX ... that really helped provide adamw data for the go/no-go meeting
15:06:34 <jlaska> nice work gang
15:06:48 <wwoods> All.ison
15:07:13 <jlaska> good segway ...
15:07:16 <jlaska> #topic F14 Beta Testing, and beyond
15:07:24 <jlaska> So quick recap ...
15:07:34 * Viking-Ice comes sailing inn..
15:07:35 <jlaska> #info F-14-Beta-RC3 declared GOLD - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2010-September/000137.html
15:07:45 <jlaska> Hi Viking-Ice, you can park that boat anywhere you like
15:08:01 <jlaska> Hurry also sent a test summary of both installation and desktop to test-announce
15:08:07 <jlaska> #info F-14-Beta test summary available - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2010-September/000139.html
15:08:24 <jlaska> The only outstanding items on the QA plate that I'm aware of for F-14-Beta are CommonBugs?
15:08:32 <jlaska> adamw and I typically knock these out today
15:08:38 <jlaska> (mostly adamw to be honest) :)
15:08:38 <mcloaked> Presume install from USB needs testing.  I'll try do that.
15:08:59 <adamw> mcloaked: how do you mean?
15:09:00 <jlaska> mcloaked: that's one of the bugs on the CommonBugs? list that I need to get a bit more understanding on
15:09:29 <jlaska> mcloaked: I assume you're talking about bug#627789 ?
15:10:23 <jlaska> only 7 CommonBugs? requests, and I suspect a few may be old ... so not too bad
15:10:31 <jlaska> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=dorem&remaction=run&namedcmd=CommonBugs%3F&sharer_id=141215
15:10:36 <mcloaked> Ok I presume reports were for putting ISO on usbkey and doing hd install from that?
15:10:54 <adamw> jlaska: there's probably some that should be on there that aren't
15:11:05 <adamw> jlaska: in particular we should check the -accepted and F14blocker lists
15:11:08 <jlaska> mcloaked: yeah, there's still some mystery (at least for me) precisely how some are preparing that setup for install
15:11:14 <adamw> and see if any of those need to be commonbugsed
15:11:35 <jlaska> adamw: I'm going to ask for help from Hurry for documenting some of the installer issues
15:11:42 <adamw> jlaska: as i mentioned on email, we should really get with anaconda team, get the definitive word on how one should do that, and write up a test for it
15:11:43 <Southern_Gentlem> jlaska,  try livecd-iso-to-disk and unetbootin
15:12:04 <jlaska> adamw: agreed ... I've added it to the retrospective, and Hurry has started that process in a ticket
15:12:13 <adamw> Southern_Gentlem: we've already got tests for livecd-iso-to-disk, and unetbootin certainly isn't a supported Fedora install mechanism.
15:12:34 <hicham> i think this is a blocker : https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=626108
15:12:37 <adamw> jlaska: awesome
15:12:54 <Southern_Gentlem> adamw,  in past releases unetbootin was mentioned
15:12:55 <adamw> Southern_Gentlem: er, that is, we don't have formal test cases, but we have test *results* for beta
15:13:00 <j_dulaney> hicham: I would agree
15:13:12 <jlaska> hicham: if you feel a bug is a blocker for the release, you are welcome to propose it by adding blocks:F14Blocker and listing the release criteria you feel is impacted
15:13:27 <jlaska> Note, from here out, we will be referencing the *Final* release criteria - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_Final_Release_Criteria
15:13:49 <adamw> hicham: that's not a blocker under our current criteria, nautilus functionality isn't considered until final
15:13:49 <hicham> jlaska: ok, I am adding as a blocker for final release
15:13:56 <adamw> hicham: for final i would agree
15:14:16 <jlaska> hicham: thanks
15:14:22 <jlaska> okay ... anything else for F-14-Beta and beyond
15:14:26 <jlaska> 20 seconds .. and moving on
15:14:37 <Southern_Gentlem> ship and lets bang on it
15:14:53 <jlaska> Southern_Gentlem: your wish is my command! :)
15:14:54 <Cookiekiller> jlaska, is there a known bug about setting the hostname?
15:15:09 <fenris02> once we have the 'beta' label, many more testers will appear
15:15:12 <jlaska> Cookiekiller: I'm not aware of any general problems about setting the hostname
15:15:21 <jlaska> #topic F14 Test Days
15:15:32 <Cookiekiller> 2 times it must be set by me after I installed it
15:15:40 <Cookiekiller> Using f14 beta rc3
15:15:46 <jlaska> This is an ongoing topic where I review recent and upcoming test days
15:16:10 <jlaska> Cookiekiller: let's make a note and save your topic for open-discussion or further detail on #fedora-qa
15:16:19 <jlaska> Cookiekiller: so we don't keep people in meetings longer than needed :)
15:16:29 * adamw hits pantscon 2 in a hurry
15:16:31 <Cookiekiller> :) so go on
15:16:40 <adamw> knew there was something i was supposed to do this weekend...
15:16:49 <jlaska> adamw: you've got some time
15:16:54 <jlaska> so reviewing last weeks event ...
15:17:03 <jlaska> #info Sep 23 - Virtualization - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2010-09-23_Virtualization
15:17:16 <jlaska> we had a light turn-out for the event, from what I could tell
15:17:32 <jlaska> which is unfortunate, as there was a *lot* of testing outlined on the wiki pages
15:17:42 <jlaska> if you weren't able to join, but still intend to test, it's not too late
15:17:55 <jlaska> I'll need to catch up with jforbes for a recap of the event
15:18:03 * j_dulaney doesn't have the hardware
15:18:04 <jlaska> i.e. what he felt was good/bad/ugly etc...
15:18:33 <jlaska> next up ...
15:18:39 <adamw> it seems like a lot of people still prefer vmware / vbox over the fedora stack for various reasons
15:18:43 <adamw> that might be a part of it
15:18:57 <jlaska> possibly, not sure
15:18:57 <wwoods> mostly a branding/usability problem at this point
15:19:08 <jlaska> definitely a messaging component
15:19:10 <j_dulaney> wwoods:  agreed
15:19:18 <wwoods> I don't think people realize we ship a completely free, completely open source, super-fast virtual machine with Fedora
15:19:28 <jlaska> I often wonder if we spread too thin with the amount of testing scoped for a single day
15:19:40 <adamw> well, there was a thread recently where we asked why people preferred vmware and there were quite a few reasonable replies
15:19:45 <adamw> so it's not just messaging
15:19:47 <hicham> wwoods: provided they have Intel VT
15:19:51 <adamw> er, preferred vbox*
15:20:02 <adamw> hicham: doesn't have to be intel.
15:20:11 <fenris02> adamw, esx is what many co's use
15:20:15 <adamw> all vaguely recent amd chips support it too.
15:20:18 <j_dulaney> wwoods: when I had access to the hardware for virtualization, I found VMWare's UI to be good
15:20:22 <hicham> adamw: or AMD with appropriate extensions
15:20:39 <jlaska> I've been amazed at how rapidly the virt-manager UI has improved over recent releases
15:20:56 <hicham> my hardware doesn't support it
15:21:01 <hicham> i am forced to use VB
15:21:02 <jlaska> okay ... so hit your blogs or the list with your thoughts as to how we can make this better in the future
15:21:22 <j_dulaney> Buy me new hardware/
15:21:28 <fenris02> jlaska, it is missing a few things yet.  for instance, set the uuid.  or attach an ide-cdrom with scsi disks.  or boot bsd.
15:21:29 <jlaska> hah, get in line :)
15:21:30 <j_dulaney> ? not / ^
15:21:39 <wwoods> yeah I guess if you don't have VT bits that's an OK reason? But libvirt still runs fine on those systems. just not real fast.
15:21:46 <wwoods> bsd? I can't even pretend to care
15:21:51 <adamw> wwoods: s/not real fast/teeth-grindingly slow/
15:21:59 <wwoods> anyway
15:22:08 <exw> wwoods: slow on my two non vt test machines
15:22:08 <jlaska> #info Sep 28-30 - Graphics test week
15:22:08 <fenris02> wwoods, understand.  just saying why folks use vmware instead.
15:22:10 <wwoods> tangent! let us move on!
15:22:14 <jlaska> switching to this weeks topic ...
15:22:18 <jlaska> wwoods: right on
15:22:34 <wwoods> oh yes, the ever-popular Graphics Test Week
15:22:36 <jlaska> adam will be delighting us with a revisit of the ever popular graphics test week!
15:22:44 <jlaska> boo-yay
15:23:07 <hicham> Graphics as of Artwork, or Graphics drivers ?
15:23:12 <adamw> aaand he totally forgot to announce it so far
15:23:13 <jlaska> drivers
15:23:30 <jlaska> adamw: the wiki page(s) look good, do you need any help finishing the event prep?
15:23:35 <hicham> oh, still investigating a nasty lockup in here
15:24:06 * j_dulaney hates nouveau
15:24:07 <hicham> it is caused by the move to r300g
15:24:09 <adamw> no, prep is done ages ago
15:24:23 <jlaska> adamw: I was thinking more about live images, blogs, test-announce etc..
15:24:28 * j_dulaney will try to test the graphics, anyway
15:25:10 <adamw> oh. yeah, if anyone wants to blog it'd be great.
15:25:19 <adamw> i'm not aware of any need for live images yet, but i'd better check with the devs.
15:25:24 <adamw> i'll handle test-announce.
15:25:33 <jlaska> okay, thanks
15:25:55 <jlaska> #help Please help spread awareness of Fedora graphics test week to a blog/list near you
15:26:08 <jlaska> #info Oct 07 - Open slot
15:26:10 * j_dulaney will spread word locally
15:26:19 <jlaska> Note, we have no test day scheduled for next week.
15:26:35 <jlaska> However, I just saw a request from dramsey for an event focused on testing Fedora in dual-boot scenarios
15:26:53 <jlaska> I've reached out to dlehman for his thoughts on the effectiveness of such an event ... so we'll go from there
15:27:02 <jlaska> Alright ... that's it for test days
15:27:15 <jlaska> please tune your sets to autoqa for the next topic ...
15:27:32 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA Package Update Acceptance
15:27:46 <jlaska> wwoods: kparal: you're our resident autoqa experts, guide us through this wilderness
15:27:59 <jlaska> (points for excessive use of #info, #idea and #help :) )
15:28:14 <kparal> let's give mic to the guru :)
15:28:18 <wwoods> ha. okay!
15:28:29 <wwoods> so, still concentrating mostly on the depcheck test.
15:28:58 <wwoods> people have noticed bodhi messing with the dist-fXX-updates{-testing}-pending tags
15:29:13 <wwoods> (which lmacken added so we can do proper depchecking - hooray)
15:29:19 <jlaska> saweeet!
15:29:36 <wwoods> last week (based on some code from jskladan) I added mash support to depcheck
15:29:39 <jlaska> #info bodhi now supports using dist-fXX-updates{-testing}-pending tags to assist with autoqa workflow
15:29:49 <wwoods> (mash is, basically, the magic thingy that puts the i686 packages into the x86_64 repo)
15:30:16 <j_dulaney> Coolness
15:30:23 <wwoods> this is important since some "repos are broken!" conditions are caused by bad multilib handling
15:30:56 <wwoods> so we need this so depcheck can simulate the exact set of packages that would get pushed to users
15:31:01 <hicham> what about evolution-data-server which led to broken updates for the second time in less than two months ?
15:31:22 <wwoods> anyway - it's in there now, and I wrote some unittests, and we proved that depcheck can *notice* (but not *prevent*) things like the nss-softokn problem we keep seeing
15:31:32 <adamw> hicham: please don't distract the discussion
15:31:34 <wwoods> hicham: that's not a multilib problem, but yes, depcheck catches that
15:31:52 <wwoods> it was designed with that problem in mind, and we have unittests that model it
15:32:10 <hicham> adamw: sorry, i thought i was on topic
15:32:31 <wwoods> anyway - us autoqa hackers had a little conference on Friday to work out the final pieces of the puzzle
15:32:49 <wwoods> we decided to move the file conflicts check into a separate test
15:33:14 <jlaska> adamw: kparal: can you keep #topic flowing, I need to step away for a conflict
15:33:19 <adamw> sure
15:33:20 <wwoods> and recognized that properly enforcing the Package Update Acceptance Test Plan will require running multiple tests and reporting a single pass/fail status - which will require some engineering work
15:33:49 <wwoods> so it'll be a little while longer until we actually have bodhi *enforcing* the autoqa requirements
15:34:03 <wwoods> but we should have depcheck running and reporting results - purely informative - Very Soon
15:34:13 <fenris02> where will it report?
15:34:37 <wwoods> fenris02: same places all the tests report right now - the autoqa-results list, and directly to the package maintainer if they opt in
15:34:45 <wwoods> (by email)
15:34:55 * fenris02 nods
15:35:15 <wwoods> we have code to make them report to the ResultsDB, and we're working on a nice web frontend (or two) for ResultsDB
15:35:41 <wwoods> so that's another place tests can/will report
15:35:48 * j_dulaney could start working on the ResultsDB frontend, if needed
15:36:07 <wwoods> and in the future that reporting will probably happen over an AMQP messagebus within the Fedora infrastructure
15:36:13 <wwoods> which is basically a big magical pony that we've all wanted for a while
15:36:24 * jlaska looks for ascii art pony
15:36:34 <wwoods> j_dulaney: that'd be awesome - you should a) look into TurboGears stuff and b) talk to jskladan
15:36:43 <j_dulaney> wwoods:  roger
15:37:16 <wwoods> or! actually - something we haven't talked a lot about
15:37:24 <wwoods> writing up use cases and doing design mockups
15:37:34 <wwoods> (and possibly getting the design team involved)
15:38:04 <wwoods> would be super-helpful - we're QA guys and engineers. web design is not exactly my specialty
15:38:23 * j_dulaney has some slight experience, but the UI is not his strong point
15:38:48 <j_dulaney> The fiddly-bits underneath the UI is where I'm good
15:38:55 <wwoods> sure, but it's still helpful to just discuss/document the ways people would want to use a big database of test results
15:39:07 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:39:07 <wwoods> think about what views would be useful as a packager, or tester
15:39:36 <jlaska> if you're looking for inspiration, I think kparal or jskladan posted some mock-ups to autoqa-devel@l.fh.org a while back
15:39:40 <j_dulaney> Righteo, I'll get in touch with Devel, some packagers, and on test-list
15:39:55 <wwoods> jlaska: really? nice, I should look that up
15:40:15 <wwoods> definitely think now is a good time to do some further brainstorming and get design involved with some further mockups
15:40:32 <wwoods> anyway, that covers the current state and near future (I think)
15:40:40 <wwoods> kparal: anything else we should mention?
15:41:02 * kparal thinking
15:41:23 <kparal> you covered all I think
15:41:52 <kparal> we had some discussion about whitelisting rpmlint output
15:42:04 <kparal> which is quite an important for many pkg maintainers
15:42:17 <kparal> anyone can join that discussion on autoqa-devel
15:42:25 <adamw> heh
15:43:13 <kparal> adamw: actually atodorov started the thread before fudcon I think :)
15:43:26 <adamw> :P
15:43:35 <adamw> ok, so thanks autoqa gang!
15:43:48 <adamw> #topic open discussion
15:43:59 <adamw> anyone have anything to bring up that hasn't been discussed so far?
15:44:18 <jlaska> just a quick pointer, I finally completed wiki cleanup for the F-14 QA retrospective page
15:44:22 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_QA_Retrospective
15:44:34 <jlaska> I'll send a reminder to the list, but contributions encouraged and welcome
15:44:43 <j_dulaney> Just throwing out:  The OS class at CCC did not make, not enough people signed up
15:45:04 <kparal> pity
15:45:16 <saccia> haiku?  I'm still learning what I can contribute with some QA tasks... but I can bring a mean haiku
15:45:25 <saccia> Fedora 14 / Beta is for Carotene / Let's Push for Final!
15:46:07 <j_dulaney> Noice
15:46:13 <wwoods> saccia: TOP MARKS
15:46:14 * adamw isn't quite sure where the carotene comes from
15:46:34 <wwoods> adamw: "beta-Carotene", natch
15:46:40 <saccia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotene
15:46:52 <saccia> there is also a carotene.... besides beta-carotene
15:46:57 <fenris02> wwoods, hah
15:47:18 <adamw> oooh.
15:47:59 * saccia bows
15:48:05 <adamw> thank you saccia
15:48:15 <adamw> i realize it's a hard act to follow, but anything else? :)
15:48:21 <saccia> lol
15:49:01 <adamw> jlaska reminds me i have something :P
15:49:08 <adamw> #topic open discussion - nice-to-have proposal
15:49:21 <adamw> just wanted to point up the nice-to-have bug proposal i sent to the list for discussion, feedback would be appreciated
15:49:47 <j_dulaney> Working video drivers for my old-blanc hardware
15:49:56 <kparal> adamw: you mean test-list, right?
15:49:56 <j_dulaney> blank^
15:49:59 <adamw> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-September/094067.html
15:50:02 <adamw> yes
15:50:13 <adamw> j_dulaney: i didn't mean that way. :P
15:51:02 <j_dulaney> I know
15:51:12 <adamw> so, yeah, please read and post feedback, thanks!
15:51:40 * jlaska plans to re-read again after having a weekend to digest
15:51:41 <saccia> so we'll have a beta-gold spin tomorrow?
15:51:51 <adamw> we already have one
15:52:12 <saccia> oh wow... missed it.... gonna go download now
15:52:19 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:53:18 <adamw> ok, so sounds like we covered everything
15:53:45 <adamw> closing meeting in 5...
15:53:48 <adamw> 4...
15:53:50 <adamw> 3...
15:53:52 <adamw> 2...
15:53:52 * rbergeron considers adding that haiku to the beta announcement :)
15:53:56 <adamw> 1...
15:53:59 <adamw> thanks, everyone!
15:54:01 <adamw> #endmeeting