00:00:03 #startmeeting Docs project weekly meeting - agenda https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:03 Meeting started Thu Nov 18 00:00:03 2010 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:11 #topic Roll call 00:00:17 * jjmcd 00:00:20 * jhradilek is here. 00:00:34 * rudi__ is here 00:01:12 Where are all the usual suspects? 00:01:24 * nb 00:01:46 Sparks, is afk 00:01:52 I guess Gearoid is afk and I don't see too many other perps 00:02:06 #topic Action Items 00:02:17 Sparks to add creating and publishing links to the Docs wiki page 00:02:40 I don't know whether that was done or not, so we'll add it back 00:02:47 #action Sparks to add creating and publishing links to the Docs wiki page 00:02:55 rudi to add "get a bugzilla component" to the "Creating a new Guide" page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Creating_a_new_guide 00:03:24 done 00:03:28 super 00:03:38 Sparks to bring nominations up to the Docs list to make sure everyone has a chance to volunteer 00:03:50 * nb nominates sparks 00:03:52 That got done and there were no takers 00:04:06 Sparks, rudi, and jjmcd (and anyone else that would like to attend) to discuss building docs for the desktop 00:04:28 There was some discussion, but I had to leave before there was any resolution 00:04:43 rudi__, did you and Sparks and I think others conclude anything? 00:05:04 jjmcd -- no, not yet 00:05:19 There's a patch for the bug in Publican 00:05:30 OK, that comes up later, don't know how fruitful it will be 00:05:38 Ohh, do you know the BZ#? 00:05:40 Probably not much yet 00:06:05 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=652120 00:06:49 OK, next topic is practically null 00:07:10 #topic Docs Project leader elections 00:07:19 #info No one stepped forward to run for the Docs Project leader position so there won't be any elections. #info No one stepped forward to run for the Docs Project leader position so there won't be any elections. 00:07:34 #topic Publishing Documentation to the desktop 00:07:50 rudi__, would you like to summarize the issue? 00:08:17 OK 00:08:32 So we need to work out how we'd like to publish to the desktop 00:08:49 And then we need to work out what we need from infra to make that happen 00:09:12 Options include a package that contains links to online docs 00:09:39 (either static, or able to consume an XML data dump on the site itself) 00:09:57 Or packaging for desktop installation 00:10:10 And if we choose packaging, how do we do it? 00:10:40 Publican is designed for a one-package-per-doc-per-Fedora_release-per-language 00:10:56 to get around nightmares that RH had with packaging docs in the past 00:11:10 But we could decide to do something different 00:11:51 As a point of information, in Fedora, you can select a language at logon and everything shows up in your language if it is available 00:12:05 With an app the bloat for multiple langs isn't bad 00:12:11 One key point here is that when we get automation going for publishing to the website, the desktop RPMs are automatically created as a by-product of that 00:12:44 So in theory, publishing desktop RPMs is as simple as putting those packages in a publically-accessible repo somewhere 00:13:05 And of course, the two major strategies here are not mutually exclusive 00:13:20 rudi__, do you think it is possible to create a spec that somehow knows what languages you have installed, presuming more than one, so rational .desktop files could be created? 00:14:33 I'd be surpised if that were not possible; but I'm not an RPM guru :) 00:14:52 The ways I can think of break some rules 00:14:53 But I'm not sure what you mean by "rational .desktop files" 00:15:22 Well, if you install multiple language docs as individual packages, you get one menu entry per doc per language 00:15:46 that would be insane 00:15:47 In a perfect world, you would have one entry per doc, and if your selected language were installed it would lead to that doc 00:15:54 Oh OK, yeah, that's true; although the menu entries identify the language 00:15:55 hicham, exactly 00:16:22 hicham, that is the current publican default behavior. 00:16:25 It's a little more complex than that 00:16:30 Fine if you only have one language 00:16:32 jjmcd: desktop files are multilingual 00:16:39 rudi__, oh yeah, it's a bear 00:16:52 But what the user should see is simple 00:17:01 It;s the stuff under the covers that isn't pretty 00:17:01 jjmcd: and gnome docs follow the desktop language 00:17:07 It would be more like: if you click on the doc, and the doc exists in the language in which you're currently logged in, then it leads to that doc" 00:17:25 hicham, yes. Yelp takes care of it. And we take care of it in release notes 00:17:32 But we don't have a general solution 00:17:50 Yeah, whatever we do needs to work across desktops 00:18:08 Exactly, currently yelp is pretty much a GNOME-only solution 00:18:21 ANd release notes to exactly that 00:18:22 Or, alternatively, support KDE, and let GNOME users suffer for their poor life choice :) 00:18:34 work across languages and desktops 00:18:45 why not xfce and let the others suffer? 00:18:53 But with release notes we install all languages 00:19:05 i think a simple script can do that 00:19:15 We test release notes on kde, sfce, lxde and gnome 00:19:22 and presume it works on the others 00:19:32 xfce sorry typing 00:19:57 a script which would check for the current language, and then launch the help in the system browser in the system language 00:20:09 it is not hard i think 00:20:18 This is not help documentation though 00:20:25 And I don't think it belongs there 00:20:33 hicham, the problem is it works if you install all languages. But in a perfect world, we would like to install SOME languages and have rational behavior 00:21:01 For RNs it isn't too bad, but some of the guides are HUGE and installing in 50 languages would be nuts 00:21:24 Yeah, we waste bandwidth and waste space on people's systems installing stuff that we don't need to 00:21:34 So the user should be able to choose, say, farsi, bengali and french, and get just those 00:21:54 jjmcd: it is feasible 00:21:56 That makes the script a bit of a challenge 00:22:22 I think it may be. Might be more of an app than a little js, but certainly it should be possible 00:23:04 heh; or the app is a specialised front-end for yum 00:23:25 We could do something like publican publish, the install stuffs the data into a sqlite db and an app reads that 00:24:05 The .desktop file would simply point to the app 00:24:31 and the app would sort the langs available. 00:25:05 Shall we try to draw more discussion on the list? 00:25:44 Yeah 00:25:51 And maybe update that wiki page 00:26:10 #action jjmcd to try to draw more discussion on desktop publication on the list 00:26:27 #action rudi will update wiki page on publication to desktop 00:26:30 OK? 00:26:33 Yep 00:26:45 Moving on 00:26:52 #topic Release Notes 00:26:57 Not much to say here 00:27:16 Last batch of translations FINALLY got pushed to docs.fp.o 00:27:29 And nothing more to do unless bugs come in 00:27:39 or more translations 00:28:01 Anyone with questions? 00:28:42 #topic Guide Status 00:29:08 OK, I will be pushing an updated ARG to docs.fp.o shortly now that I found the problem I was having 00:29:20 Everyone ready to start thinking F15? 00:29:21 Pretty much the same as RN status -- everything published AFAIK 00:29:50 And yeah, time to start fixing bugs in "master" and getting ready for F15 00:30:16 Gotta give everyone a big attaboy. We got one heck of a collection of guides out there 00:30:41 #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:30:50 #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84 00:31:09 I haven't even looked to see where we are 00:31:39 104 bugs 00:32:17 hmmm, Koji didn't close my catalan bug 00:32:44 Anyone need any assistance with any bugs? 00:33:17 Wow, we're just zooming through this agenda. Helps to have everything done ;-) 00:33:24 #topic Open floor discussion 00:33:35 Does anyone have anything for the good of the order? 00:34:28 * nb does not think he does 00:34:36 * jjmcd is all geeked that his first actual application has made it to the repos 00:35:40 Should we get rbergeron to work up a schedule for our publishing to the desktop project? 00:36:14 Nobody else? 00:36:26 5 00:36:33 4 00:36:40 3 00:36:45 2 00:36:48 1 00:36:49 *BOOM* 00:37:02 Thank you everybody. Let's all hope Sparks' wife is OK 00:37:06 #endmeeting