05:04:26 <tagoh> #startmeeting i18n
05:04:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec  2 05:04:26 2010 UTC.  The chair is tagoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:04:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:04:31 <tagoh> #meetingname i18n
05:04:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:04:36 <tagoh> #topic agenda
05:04:44 <tagoh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2010-12-02
05:04:54 <paragan> hi
05:04:57 <tagoh> who else here?
05:05:11 <juhp> hi
05:05:44 <dueno> hi
05:05:50 <tagoh> hi
05:06:21 <epico_laptop> hi
05:07:26 <tagoh> ok, let's get started
05:07:34 <tagoh> #topic F15
05:07:47 <dingyichen> hi
05:08:57 <tagoh> thought we talked about some feature submission in the last meeting. any progress for that if there are anything?
05:11:16 <juhp> not sure
05:11:43 <juhp> I was trying to get late rawhide up with gnome-shell... to see if any changes there
05:12:17 <juhp> latest
05:12:23 <fujiwarat> I set up f15 in this week and just started to investigate it.
05:12:34 <tagoh> hm, well, I'm still not sure if we should create a new tool for fontconfig or merge it to the desktop applications?
05:12:45 <juhp> tagoh: ah right
05:13:12 <juhp> yeah I was thinking too that it might conflict with current desktop font configuration... hmmm
05:13:28 <tagoh> right
05:14:02 <juhp> tagoh: so they override fontconfig for gtk/gnome apps right?
05:15:01 <juhp> so then really need to take this upstream who may or may not see this as a priority :-/
05:15:02 <tagoh> it doesn't have a feature we want/plan in new tool so far
05:15:14 <juhp> nod
05:15:35 <juhp> I was asking how the current font config works :)
05:16:15 <tagoh> it does as long as any applications is referring to fontconfig right
05:17:12 <juhp> so gtk first checks gconf font settings?
05:17:22 <tagoh> yes
05:17:27 <juhp> ok right
05:18:50 <juhp> hmm but maybe it is ok still
05:18:54 <tagoh> well, the solution for issues are different - the desktop is trying to replace the font configuration with the preferred fonts. but we are trying to get the better fonts, keeping the font preferences with sans/serif/monospace.
05:19:10 <juhp> if we consider the font tool for font fallback
05:19:23 <juhp> right
05:19:56 <tagoh> wondering if having similar tools gives people good experience
05:19:57 <juhp> also seems like we need some proof of concept to be able to sell the idea perhaps?
05:20:05 <juhp> probably not ;)
05:20:37 <juhp> well I agree better to integrate in gnome I guess
05:21:10 <tagoh> that would be more generic but the question may be "is this feature really needed in the personal preferences?"
05:21:18 <juhp> not sure where that leaves non-gnome users though
05:21:41 <juhp> tagoh: so you think it should be a system preference?
05:21:48 <tagoh> using many languages may be the corner-case.
05:22:08 <juhp> meaning?
05:22:34 <tagoh> current feature in the desktop preference may be enough?
05:22:55 <juhp> aha
05:23:18 <juhp> or a commandline tool perhaps for power-users then?
05:23:30 <tagoh> aha
05:24:20 <tagoh> need to think about the scope of this feature more
05:24:24 <juhp> but I dunno I think many fedora/technical users use both English and their native language
05:24:35 <juhp> so I am not convinced it is an edge case :)
05:24:47 <juhp> hm yeah
05:25:27 <juhp> for general "consumers" perhaps one lang is fine
05:25:36 <tagoh> right
05:26:28 <tagoh> anyway
05:26:37 <tagoh> anything else for f15?
05:27:06 <epico_laptop> about comps split, no response yet.
05:27:17 <epico_laptop> for Chinese Support.
05:27:27 <tagoh> aha
05:28:05 <tagoh> what's the issue for next step so far?
05:28:13 <juhp> epico_laptop: response from?
05:28:18 <epico_laptop> . bug 650028
05:28:20 <zodbot> epico_laptop: Bug 650028 RFE allow lists of locales for language groups - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=650028
05:28:35 <juhp> ah the anaconda rfe
05:29:06 <epico_laptop> dunno whether they will allow to change comps files.
05:29:55 <juhp> epico_laptop: oh we can change if we duplicate - the question is if we can avoid duplicating groups or dropping them
05:30:08 <juhp> :)
05:30:10 <epico_laptop> ok. I see.
05:30:23 <juhp> or do nothing :)
05:30:43 <tagoh> how about bringing this up as feature and make the issue visible to FESCo?
05:30:45 <juhp> it might be a good topic to ask fedora-zh?
05:31:18 <epico_laptop> what is the next step?
05:31:25 <tagoh> if it's accepted as f15 feature, the necessary changes will be made smoothly?
05:32:24 <tagoh> what do you think?
05:32:55 <juhp> yeah but it is kind of forcing anaconda to change
05:33:13 <juhp> well it might be one approach though mm
05:33:47 <juhp> dunno how making feature requests as Features is taken?
05:35:54 <epico_laptop> asked it in some mailing list first?
05:35:57 <juhp> but yeah it is kind of stalled... I pinged now on the bug
05:36:12 <tagoh> ok
05:36:20 <juhp> epico_laptop: yeah probably good to try fedora-devel list
05:36:30 <juhp> epico_laptop: fedora-zh thinks it is a good idea?
05:37:01 <epico_laptop> ok. I see. fedora-zh fedora-chinese seems less technical now.
05:37:20 <epico_laptop> maybe fedora-devel is better.
05:37:42 <juhp> ok - just thought it might be good to have their support but then ask fedora-devel first
05:38:19 <tagoh> even good to see some feedbacks from the user side? how they think current package sets installed etc?
05:38:21 <epico_laptop> how about also CC i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org.
05:38:30 <juhp> epico_laptop: sure
05:38:34 <juhp> tagoh: right
05:38:34 <epico_laptop> ok
05:38:50 <juhp> but I think epico_laptop did some "polling" earlier, right?
05:39:16 <juhp> or was that more on fonts?
05:39:24 <juhp> perhaps I am misremembering
05:39:25 <epico_laptop> I see some users comment on bugs.
05:39:32 <juhp> aha
05:39:44 <juhp> epico_laptop: asking for split, right?
05:39:55 <epico_laptop> ok. will send out mail later.
05:40:01 <juhp> cool
05:40:04 <tagoh> thanks
05:40:10 <epico_laptop> welcome.
05:40:22 <juhp> but someone still needs to change anaconda...
05:40:59 <tagoh> yep
05:41:11 <tagoh> ok, shall we move on if anything else?
05:41:37 <tagoh> #topic Package Updates
05:42:47 <tagoh> thanks for giving some karmas to im-chooser on f14. still need more loves for f13 too if possible. :)
05:43:39 <juhp> ok I can try to test f13 - I guess should be same hopefully
05:44:01 <tagoh> thanks - yep, should be no difference
05:44:50 <tagoh> anything else you want some testing for your packages?
05:47:03 <tagoh> ok, move on then
05:47:13 <tagoh> #topic F12 bugs cleanup
05:48:02 <tagoh> bugs should be closed soon
05:48:50 <juhp> yeah I think the remaining bugs are basically f12 only
05:49:06 <tagoh> ok. good then
05:49:09 <juhp> though haven't checked them all exhaustively
05:49:37 <juhp> but if anyone disagrees please move them :)
05:49:53 <tagoh> yep
05:50:19 <tagoh> also we could reopen if it still exists in current releases
05:50:28 <juhp> sure
05:50:41 <tagoh> #topic Fonts and Rendering
05:51:15 <tagoh> working with fontconfig upstream to support editing charset and langset now.
05:51:44 <tagoh> suppose we have some bugs might be closed with this feature
05:52:22 <juhp> great
05:52:31 <tagoh> hopefully we'll see this feature in f15 and making better in fonts/rendering
05:52:46 <juhp> how does the editing work?
05:53:09 <juhp> ah overriding in .conf?
05:53:16 <tagoh> right
05:53:20 <juhp> cool
05:53:45 <juhp> perhaps that will end the .fc wars ;o)
05:54:05 <tagoh> we could get rid of faulty characters from a font without modifying a font itself
05:54:07 <juhp> (did I get the file extension right?)
05:54:25 <juhp> aha
05:54:35 <juhp> nice
05:55:39 <tagoh> dunno ;)
05:56:08 <tagoh> .orth bugs for indic is still open right?
05:58:47 <tagoh> ok, anything else for fonts/rendering?
05:58:55 <juhp> ah yes .orth thanks...
06:00:20 <tagoh> hm, better move on.
06:00:27 <tagoh> #topic ibus
06:01:27 <tagoh> how's ibus things going?
06:02:50 <juhp> I am still wondering/worrying we can do something about all the xkb layouts being listed
06:04:12 <tagoh> sure. do we have any consensus/conclusion with desktop team for dealing with it on ibus?
06:05:37 <juhp> I dunno
06:05:43 <tagoh> fujiwarat: ?
06:05:56 <fujiwarat> I may not understand the topic.
06:06:06 <juhp> I guess first needs upstream agreement
06:06:11 <tagoh> right
06:06:20 <juhp> fujiwarat: well it is what I brought up before :)
06:06:41 <juhp> about too many xkb maps cluttering ibus IME add list
06:08:07 <juhp> well maybe I should file a bug :)
06:08:12 <fujiwarat> Are you talking about the list on ibus-setup? If so, I'm not sure if it's better to talk with desktop team.
06:08:26 <juhp> fujiwarat: yes I am :)
06:09:27 <fujiwarat> Probably we can implement the list with the better GUI. I agree to enhance it.
06:10:37 <juhp> cool
06:11:34 <fujiwarat> I just started f15. I'm still investigating why ones are shown up and others are shown down.
06:11:39 <juhp> are there any other updates or issues to discuss? :)
06:11:47 <juhp> fujiwarat: great
06:12:13 <juhp> maybe "down" is default?
06:12:19 <tagoh> ok
06:14:02 <tagoh> ok, if not, let's close the meeting then.
06:15:18 <tagoh> thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:15:26 <tagoh> #endmeeting