16:00:41 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
16:00:41 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 20 16:00:41 2010 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:44 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
16:00:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
16:00:48 <jlaska> #topic Gathering in the lobby ....
16:01:27 <jlaska> Hello all ... anyone lurking for likely our last meeting of 2010?
16:01:48 <mkrizek> jlaska: me!
16:02:04 <jlaska> mkrizek: hi there!  Is it quiet there today?
16:02:39 <mkrizek> jlaska: it is, in the fedora qa box anyway
16:02:39 <adamw> yo
16:02:57 <Alam> hello
16:05:06 <jlaska> adamw: Alam Hi there!
16:05:16 <jlaska> sorry, I'm back ... just had a display hang
16:05:38 <jlaska> okay, anyone else?  robatino, Viking-Ice, wwoods
16:05:48 * fenrus02 waves
16:05:53 <jlaska> fenrus02: hey!
16:06:44 <jlaska> okay, let's get started ...
16:06:50 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
16:06:58 <jlaska> #info jlaska to ping jens+rhe and Alam for thoughts on a F15 l10n/i18n test day
16:07:17 <jlaska> good news for me, rhe and Alam are already on top of this!
16:07:32 <jlaska> #info http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/158 - F15 l10n/i18n test day planning
16:07:45 <jlaska> Alam: anything else you want to highlight or share on that subject?
16:08:20 <adamw> yeah, awesome job alam/rhe, thanks
16:08:21 <Alam> jlaska: we selected test day and on the way to plan test cases
16:08:37 <jlaska> Alam: that's great news ... sounds like you guys are really movin'
16:09:00 <jlaska> we'll touch on test days shortly, but feel free to raise any questions/concerns in the ticket or on test@lists.fedoraproject.org :)
16:09:17 <jlaska> #info jlaska to merge User:Bruno#Mockup_for_QA_-_Tracking_bug_queries into QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting
16:09:42 <jlaska> With the queries the Bruno provided, I did some minor re-org of the blocker meeting SOP page
16:09:49 <jlaska> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting#In_Action
16:10:14 <jlaska> I'm not in love with my changes, but it at least gets those queries on the meeting radar for F15
16:10:22 <adamw> nice!
16:10:32 <jlaska> I also added excessive meetbot commands to the page
16:10:40 <adamw> simple and to the point and has links == good
16:11:19 <jlaska> (compliments to the Design team how to for example -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_run_a_Fedora_design_team_meeting)
16:11:23 <jlaska> adamw: thanks
16:11:32 <jlaska> last up ...
16:11:34 <jlaska> #info Bodhi feedback patch from fcami (see ticket#701 (infrastructure) awaiting review
16:12:04 <jlaska> I think fcami posted the updated patch last week ... so it's now on lmackens' radar for comment
16:12:18 <jlaska> not sure what else to track here
16:12:44 * wwoods lurks
16:13:01 <jlaska> wwoods: howdy :)
16:13:56 <jlaska> so, I guess we'll just stay tuned on that
16:14:07 <jlaska> alright ... quick recap ...
16:14:10 <jlaska> #topic Call for Test Days ...
16:14:13 * rbergeron lurks too ;)
16:14:21 <jlaska> rbergeron: hi there :)
16:14:33 <jlaska> so adamw and company have been going gang-busters on getting test days on the schedule
16:14:48 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_15_test_days
16:14:56 <jlaska> Some nice additions this past week
16:15:24 <jlaska> including the l10n/i18n event discussed earlier (thanks Alam + Hurry)
16:15:46 <jlaska> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/159 - Consistent Network Device naming (pitched by shyamiyerdell)
16:16:10 <jlaska> adamw: any other updates or news to share on this topic?
16:16:22 <adamw> nope
16:16:30 <adamw> short and sweet, huh? :)
16:16:34 <jlaska> definitely!
16:16:40 <jlaska> oh ... did you hear back on systemd yet?
16:16:45 <jlaska> or are those folks already on break?
16:17:59 * rbergeron will just pipe in and say the cloud SIG has been talking about doing a test day - I will ping them this week and see when we might want to schedule that and put in a ticket
16:17:59 <jlaska> adamw: ^^^ ?
16:18:11 <jlaska> rbergeron: ooh, that'll be a fun new topic
16:18:36 <adamw> sorry, multitasking
16:18:44 <adamw> actually i have mgracik asking me stuff about systemd right now
16:18:46 <adamw> so i'll ask him
16:18:47 <jlaska> adamw: no distracted driving! :)
16:18:55 <jlaska> adamw: okay
16:19:13 <rbergeron> jlaska: indeed
16:19:16 <jlaska> so, the next topic was an update on the investigation bruno was doing with regards to query potential with upstream bugzilla
16:19:29 <jlaska> we can hold that off until he's available
16:19:34 <jlaska> but for those interested ...
16:19:37 <jlaska> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/89#comment:18
16:19:40 <adamw> general test day note
16:19:47 <jlaska> adamw: shoot
16:19:48 <adamw> remember, we only put thursdays in the calendar
16:20:04 <jlaska> ah yes, good reminder
16:20:09 <adamw> but if you really want to go in a week we have something else scheduled, you can go ahead and add a tuesday or wednessday
16:20:20 <adamw> we like the thursday 'cadence' (heh) but it's no big deal to double-dip a few weeks
16:20:40 <jlaska> #info We only put Thursdays in the test day calendar, but other days are available if really needed
16:20:56 <jlaska> and for somethings, double+triple dipping works out great (e.g. Xorg)
16:21:00 <jlaska> well, except for adamw's sanity
16:21:09 <adamw> right - if you want to run multiple related test days, it can work well to put them in a single week
16:21:15 <rbergeron> Is there a reason why only thursdays? Just easier to advertise/remember that way?
16:21:15 <adamw> as we're planning with i18n/l10n
16:21:30 <adamw> rbergeron: basically, yes, the idea is for it to be a regular event. thursday was picked because it was a nice quiet day, iirc.
16:21:35 * rbergeron just wonders if that is something interesting to put on the test days wiki page so people don't go creating their own stuff in the table.
16:21:47 <adamw> yeah, we could add a note there.
16:21:56 * rbergeron can do that real quicklike
16:22:08 <adamw> sure, just saying the above
16:22:12 <rbergeron> yup
16:22:15 * rbergeron goes a-typin'
16:22:21 <jlaska> clickity-clackity
16:22:51 <jlaska> When we try to host several unrelated test days in the same week, that can often be overload/confusing
16:23:19 <jlaska> and then if it's the same people responsible for hosting multiple events in one week ... that can be pretty taxing
16:23:38 <jlaska> as indicated by the hibernation adamw goes into after xorg week
16:23:58 <jlaska> alright, thanks for the updates adamw Alam and rbergeron
16:24:12 <jlaska> #topic Requirements review for Fedora test case management
16:24:32 <adamw> that's a vicious slander!
16:24:42 <jlaska> Just a reminder, Hurry is still collecting thoughts and developing requirements for a formal test case management tool
16:24:51 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_requirements_proposal
16:24:52 * adamw breaks out the duellin' gloves
16:25:10 <jlaska> adamw: uh noes ... I think I just got slapped by your gauntlet!
16:25:37 <jlaska> New rule, never duel with a Canuck
16:26:12 <jlaska> Hurry and I have been discussing different approaches off-list, but most of hte thoughts are collected on the talk page
16:26:15 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Rhe/tcms_requirements_proposal
16:26:57 <jlaska> it'll probably be easier to provide feedback to once finalized, but if there are any general ideas on how to organize thoughts etc...  the Talk: page is your friend
16:27:19 <jlaska> so thanks Hurry for starting this process :)
16:27:23 <jlaska> #topic Critical Path test case development
16:27:38 <jlaska> adamw: you're on!
16:27:54 <adamw> uh, i'm working on it. =)
16:28:05 <jlaska> hehe ... should I send that to #info :)
16:28:07 <adamw> we thrashed out various issues in the ticket this week
16:28:18 <adamw> and i'm now drafting up wiki stuff which will document the whole process
16:28:26 <adamw> once i have those drafts in place i'll send them to the lists for review
16:28:31 <jlaska> yeah, that was some good discussion, thanks for managing that!
16:28:56 <jlaska> #info Adamw drafing wiki pages intended to document the process
16:28:59 <adamw> the biggest unsolved issue that i just have no idea how to tackle is how to express relationships between packages for test plans
16:29:09 <adamw> e.g. 'when yum is updated we should probably run the test plan for packagekit'
16:29:11 <adamw> that's really hard
16:29:18 <jlaska> hmm
16:29:20 <adamw> if anyone has bright ideas about that, go ahead and throw them at the ticket
16:29:27 <adamw> for now i am cheerfully ignoring it
16:29:51 <jlaska> well, that's another not tremendously difficult to manage thing with tcms ... so the future is promising
16:30:08 <jlaska> with only Categories to use, that is tough to manage with wiki
16:30:17 <jlaska> adamw: alrighty, thanks for the updates
16:30:32 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA Update(s)
16:31:00 <jlaska> note, we're missing kparal and jskladan this week
16:31:12 <jlaska> wwoods or mkrizek, any exciting updates on the autoqa front to share?
16:31:46 <jlaska> iirc, the big discussion last week was around the rework of the post-bodhi-update how/where the batching logic should live
16:32:08 <jlaska> I think wwoods and jskladan hashed out the details on list and over email
16:32:19 <mkrizek> I've got nothing:)
16:32:21 <wwoods> right - I think we finally sorted out some of the complexity relating to depcheck and handling multithreaded testing of updates
16:32:36 <wwoods> gordian knot style
16:32:41 <jlaska> hah!
16:32:44 <wwoods> we decided not to test updates multithreaded
16:32:54 <jlaska> problem, solution!
16:33:32 <wwoods> eventually we'll need locking/semaphore stuff so we can handle situations with multiple tests sharing data
16:33:41 * adamw notes intel and amd are both roadmapping futures where we have zillions of cores for everything...but hey.
16:33:46 <adamw> that's a long way off, i guess.
16:34:03 <jlaska> anyone with experience developing such stuff ... input would be appreciated!
16:34:24 <jlaska> mkrizek: how's the staging support coming along?
16:34:32 <wwoods> adamw: current data shows that, during our busiest-ever month, we would need depcheck (on average) once every 33 minutes
16:34:44 <wwoods> current average depcheck runtime: ~50-60sec
16:34:52 <mkrizek> jlaska: done
16:35:06 <mkrizek> jlaska: I will push it into mkrizek-staging
16:35:29 <wwoods> we're a long, long way from needing to care about multithreading *multiple depchecks for a single Fedora release*
16:35:32 <adamw> wwoods: oooh, nice numbers!
16:35:35 <wwoods> all other testing is still multithreaded.
16:35:44 <jlaska> mkrizek: ooh, nice, what's next for that?
16:36:37 <jlaska> #info Team decided to serialize depcheck tests to avoid complexity relating to handling multiple depcheck tests running at the same time
16:36:50 <mkrizek> jlaska: just starting coding logging suport, hopefully we will have /var/log/autoqa.log/different verbose modes soon
16:37:29 <jlaska> #info Depcheck data - during busiest-ever month, we would need depcheck (on average) once every 33 minutes.  Depcheck currently takes <= 1m to complete
16:38:01 <jlaska> #info mkrizek finished up autoqa staging support (pushed to mkrizek-staging)
16:38:36 <jlaska> #info mkrizek starting logging support to better capture output from watchers and 'autoqa'
16:38:52 <jlaska> mkrizek: cool, nice ... that'll help avoid having to read 'autotest' mail to scan for failures
16:39:04 <wwoods> mkrizek: nice - using the python 'logging' module?
16:39:19 <mkrizek> wwoods: yes
16:39:27 * wwoods finally getting good at using 'logging' and kind of loves it now
16:40:02 <jlaska> Small update on the clumens branch.  I made a more improvements to the checkbot.sh test, drafted a compose-tree pungi test, and also added a preliminary post-git-receive watcher hook that triggers whenever a git push occurs for anaconda.git
16:40:13 <mkrizek> jlaska: and also helps debugging I would say
16:40:17 <jlaska> mkrizek: yes!
16:40:51 <jlaska> #info updates to clumens anaconda branch - improved checkbot.sh test, new compose-tree pungi test, and initial post-git-receive watcher to trigger events on git push
16:40:58 <jlaska> alrighty ... anything else to report on the autoqa front?
16:41:45 <wwoods> don't think so
16:42:00 <jlaska> okay, open discussion time ...
16:42:06 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - <your topic here>
16:42:42 <jlaska> anything not already discussed that folks would like to raise?
16:43:00 <adamw> where's my christmas present?!
16:43:50 <jlaska> adamw: I will send you a secular non-specific winter pleasantry
16:44:20 <jlaska> if no topics, I'll #endmeeting in 2 minutes
16:44:51 <fenrus02> Happy Chrismakwanzika folks
16:45:16 <jlaska> indeed, happy Festivus to all
16:45:30 <jlaska> 1 min remaining until #endmeeting
16:45:38 <wwoods> for some reason my xmas goodies have been bacon-themed this year - I made two batches of maple-bacon chocolate chip cookies and four batches of maple baconated bourbon
16:45:50 <wwoods> I blame the meaty influence of the Hot Dog
16:46:08 <wwoods> uh I mean, praise. praise the meaty influence of the Hot Dog.
16:46:09 <jlaska> that was one delicious cookie!
16:46:12 <fenrus02> wwoods, W00T!  that is awesome with awesome sauce
16:46:28 <jlaska> okay all ... thanks for your time!
16:46:32 <jlaska> happy holidays :)
16:46:37 <jlaska> #endmeeting