00:01:05 <sgordon> #startmeeting
00:01:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 23 00:01:05 2010 UTC.  The chair is sgordon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:01:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:01:12 <sgordon> #meetingname Fedora Docs Project
00:01:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs_project'
00:01:21 <sgordon> #meetingtopic Weekly Meeting
00:01:32 <sgordon> #topic roll call
00:01:41 * jjmcd 
00:01:43 <sgordon> #meetingtopic Weekly Fedora Docs Meeting
00:01:48 * jhradilek is (surprisingly enough) still awake.
00:01:50 * sgordon is here
00:01:57 * bcotton is here
00:02:32 <sgordon> obviously sparks couldn't make it today
00:02:52 <sgordon> im going to try go off the last agenda on the site, feel free to butt in when i miss something
00:03:08 <sgordon> #topic fedora-bookmarks
00:03:16 <jjmcd> It is a tad on the stale side tho
00:03:24 <sgordon> yeah i know =(
00:03:40 <sgordon> so if you have fresher topics please interject :)
00:03:41 <jjmcd> Oh, and there is one ..  I did update the bug with our results of last meeting
00:03:54 <sgordon> ok
00:03:59 <jjmcd> Didn't get any response from the owner.  Prolly should email him
00:04:04 <sgordon> ok
00:04:24 <jjmcd> I don't see nb
00:04:32 <jjmcd> but he was going to change the redirect
00:04:35 <sgordon> #action jjmcd to follow up with fedora-bookmarks packager
00:05:26 <sgordon> do you know if he has?
00:05:30 <sgordon> or is that still pending
00:05:33 <jjmcd> No I don't
00:05:44 <sgordon> ok, will need to follow up afterwards i guess
00:06:09 <sgordon> #action sgordon to ping nb for status of docs.p.o redirects and report back to list
00:06:47 <sgordon> is there anything else worth discussing in terms of publishing to the desktop atm?
00:06:51 <jjmcd> Looks like he did
00:07:07 <jjmcd> my firefox on F12 gets to the F14 notes which was our expected outcome
00:07:37 <sgordon> dont know how to scratch the last action so i will just info it
00:07:42 <jjmcd> I'm afraid I don't recall where we left the desktop links thing
00:08:00 <jjmcd> heh - I don't either - Sparks does!
00:08:19 <sgordon> #info jjmcd notes redirects appear to have been implemented already
00:08:41 <sgordon> neither do i unfortunately
00:08:55 <sgordon> #topic guide status
00:09:18 <sgordon> does anyone have anything to report about their guides?
00:09:56 <jjmcd> I've been toying with the idea of an R guide - news at 11
00:10:14 <sgordon> i've been looking at trying to put something into the cloud guide again
00:10:25 <jjmcd> More like a Six Sigma using R tutorial, actually
00:10:35 <jjmcd> That would be helpful
00:10:52 <sgordon> #info jjmcd toying with the idea of a Six Sigma using R tutorial/guide
00:11:01 <sgordon> #info sgordon again looking at potential cloud content
00:11:10 <sgordon> basically i am working on quickstart content
00:11:29 <sgordon> how to use the images the cloud-sig have made to get yourself up and running as quickly as possible
00:11:38 <sgordon> using euca2ools
00:12:19 <sgordon> #info need ideas for non-EC2 related cloud content, what other providers are people using fedora on and can provide content on?
00:12:26 <sgordon> anyone else?
00:12:54 <sgordon> do we have a lucky volunteer to help out with the virt guide at all ;)
00:13:31 * bcotton thinks sgordon picked the wrong week to find victims
00:13:35 <jjmcd> heh
00:13:42 <jhradilek> :-D
00:13:53 * jjmcd just looked like an idiot on the virt bug he filed last week
00:14:04 <jjmcd> Well, not totally I guess, but still ...
00:14:36 <sgordon> lol
00:14:45 <sgordon> i think this one is just a recurring search for victims
00:15:00 <sgordon> the problem as i see it is it's a rhel guide converted for fedora
00:15:12 <jjmcd> Its a big topic.  Getting started is easy but there are so many tentacles
00:15:14 <sgordon> and you can kind of tell
00:15:59 <sgordon> yeah, once you get into using the virsh stuff there are just so many different options to consider
00:16:22 <sgordon> the upstream projects are having the same issues, the libvirt guys are desperate to get some docs written but nobody really has full coverage of it
00:16:47 <jjmcd> ANd it really needs a lot more press
00:17:12 <sgordon> i think the problem is it gets press but there isnt much follow through
00:17:15 <jjmcd> At OLH there was a pres where they guy made it look a lot harder than it has to be - of course, he studiously avoided RHEL and Fedora
00:17:39 <sgordon> for instance spice being in f14 was a release note item but you cant currently use spice in virt-manager
00:17:49 <sgordon> of course
00:18:01 <sgordon> however we digress :)
00:18:17 <sgordon> #info Still no virtualization guide volunteers at this stage.
00:18:38 <sgordon> do we usually do the BZ tickets item?
00:18:53 * sgordon thinks you can tell who has been paying attention previous weeks lol
00:18:57 <jjmcd> Generaly Sparks just hassles us to get after them
00:20:42 <sgordon> #topic outstanding BZs
00:20:52 <sgordon> #info sgordon hassles people to get after them like sparks would ;)
00:20:59 <sgordon> #topic open floor
00:21:05 <sgordon> Does anyone have any other items?
00:21:28 <jjmcd> 98 bugs on Sparks' link
00:21:34 <sgordon> sorry this has been a bit roughshod but i figured there were just enough of us that showed up that it was still worth having
00:22:00 <sgordon> #info jjmcd notes the bugzilla query currently shows 98 bugs outstanding
00:22:00 <jjmcd> Where are we re: F15?  I've not been paying attention, so not sure when we'll be working on sked
00:22:21 <jjmcd> With a new schedule person no less
00:22:28 <sgordon> hang on i will have to find it
00:22:37 <jhradilek> What link are we talking about?
00:22:47 <jjmcd> rbergeron are you around?  When will you be hassling us?
00:22:53 <sgordon> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/15
00:22:54 <jjmcd> jhradilek, on the meeting agenda
00:23:21 * jhradilek is ashamed. Now you can see who was not paying much attention right now.
00:23:22 <sgordon> so feature submission deadline is the 25th
00:23:33 <sgordon> i assume that is when we need to identify any new guides that we want to make it?
00:23:43 <jjmcd> And apparently we should have had the schedule worked out by now
00:23:45 <jjmcd> hmmmmm
00:24:19 <jjmcd> Well, the guides generally don't get packaged
00:24:20 <sgordon> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-docs-tasks.html
00:24:30 <jjmcd> so the release schedule isn't that big of a deal
00:24:48 <jjmcd> Interesting, I thought Robyn was going to do it this time
00:25:00 <jhradilek> Huh, the last one is pretty detailed.
00:25:04 <sgordon> that is just linked off the main schedule
00:25:11 <jjmcd> I'll have to sit down and digest that
00:25:14 <sgordon> yeah
00:25:21 <sgordon> maybe we can talk about that with sparks next time
00:25:37 <jjmcd> Last cycle went pretty well so if that is basically a copy it should be pretty good
00:26:11 <sgordon> #action Chair of next meeting to discuss release schedule in detail, for now people should just try and digest it.
00:26:43 * jhradilek wasn't here the last cycle, so he is not really sure what to expect. :-)
00:27:18 <jjmcd> jhradilek, well, after several releases where basically we did everything in the last week, well, stickster did
00:27:29 <jjmcd> We have been slowly improving
00:27:39 <jjmcd> and I think we only had one screw-up last time
00:28:00 <sgordon> what was that? those couple of release note items that needed to be pulled?
00:28:16 <jjmcd> No, I don't recall now, I'll have to check my notes
00:28:24 <jjmcd> SOmeplace we had something out of order
00:28:41 <jjmcd> And we were doing something after L10N needed it
00:28:50 <sgordon> ahh
00:29:00 <jhradilek> Right...
00:29:19 <jjmcd> THe problem is
00:29:37 <jjmcd> poelcat really doesn't know what the schedule items on our schedule really mean
00:29:49 <jjmcd> and I don't know what other people's itesm really mean
00:30:04 <jjmcd> So there is a bit of a language barrier
00:30:27 <jjmcd> But I do see a problem
00:30:48 <sgordon> mmm?
00:30:56 <jjmcd> I expect to have a hellish first six months of 2011 without release notes, so I'm going to need to rtecruit some help
00:31:05 <jjmcd> More help than normal I mean
00:32:11 <jjmcd> I just never learned how to do this retirement thing right
00:32:32 <sgordon> #info recruitment of people to help with required for this release. jjmcd likely to have significantly less cycles available.
00:32:42 <sgordon> lol
00:32:57 <bcotton> fewer
00:32:59 <bcotton> :-)
00:33:30 <jjmcd> I can't say I'm not having fun, tho
00:34:16 <sgordon> just too much fun right? ;)
00:34:22 <jjmcd> exactly
00:34:39 <jjmcd> I think I have a dozen trips to Lansing between now and may
00:34:50 <sgordon> well last time i sent rbergeron a few bits for the beats about virtualization stuff
00:35:05 <sgordon> i am happy to try and help out with anything in that vague cloud/virt area for rel notes as well
00:35:17 <sgordon> i also lurk the cloud sig most weeks ;)
00:35:29 <jjmcd> We've been pretty good with the beats
00:35:55 <jjmcd> It's the leadership that will need help.  Good opportunity for someone to step up
00:36:20 <sgordon> and a free set of steak knives
00:36:29 <jjmcd> Yeah, there ya go
00:36:44 <sgordon> ok :)
00:36:57 <sgordon> well we may need to re-iterate that at a meeting with a few more people in it
00:36:59 <jjmcd> I have something TOTALLY off topic
00:37:05 <sgordon> it might be worth sending something to the list as well?
00:37:12 <jjmcd> yeah
00:37:20 <sgordon> just because i know a lot of people follow that but dont necessarily attend the irc meets that often
00:38:03 <jjmcd> I need to chat with rbergeron and then I'll post something
00:38:11 <sgordon> ok
00:38:34 <sgordon> #action jjmcd to post request for rel-notes assistance to the list in coming weeks.
00:38:43 <sgordon> so what is your other topic :D
00:38:49 <jjmcd> does anyone know of a JMP to csv or some readable format converter?
00:39:11 * jjmcd is reverse engineering right now
00:39:15 <jjmcd> and that's time consuming
00:39:46 <jjmcd> JMP is a Minitab clone, originally for the Mac
00:40:18 <jjmcd> didn't expect lots of people to jump up ;-)
00:43:04 <jhradilek> jjmcd: Didn't expect you ask such complicated question. :-)
00:43:19 * jjmcd is always doing arcane stuff
00:43:52 <sgordon> lol
00:44:06 <sgordon> i got distracted sorry but that's a pretty specific request :p
00:44:17 <sgordon> what even is JMP dare i ask?
00:44:30 <jjmcd> yeah, and not a problem that too many people are likely to encounter
00:44:57 <jjmcd> It's like Minitab - a pretty elaborate, and expensive, statistics program
00:45:34 <jjmcd> I have some old JMP datasets I would like to recover but I don't have JMP anymore
00:45:41 <rbergeron> i can hassle you right now :)
00:45:42 <sgordon> ah, complete with a suitably elaborate file structure
00:45:49 <jjmcd> And I'm not about to spend ten grand to convert a few files
00:45:58 <rbergeron> jjmcd: ^^^
00:46:01 <jjmcd> Hey rbergeron
00:46:11 <jjmcd> Schedule
00:46:16 <rbergeron> indeed
00:46:34 <rbergeron> any changes you'd like?
00:46:39 <jjmcd> Surprised to see it in poelstra.fp.o
00:46:50 <jjmcd> But is that basically a clone of F14
00:47:10 <rbergeron> yes, it is.
00:47:16 * jjmcd was surprised to see it at all. Expected meetings with you and L10N
00:47:42 <jjmcd> But F14 did go quite well.  There was one issue, if I recall, but I need to dig to remember what it was
00:47:46 <rbergeron> it gets built automagically based off of the previous schedule - changes can be made accordingly.
00:48:13 <jjmcd> We probably should have a con call with L10N to be sure things went OK with them
00:48:21 <rbergeron> it's in poelstra's stuff until we can resolve figuring out where to put it so that it's not in $anyperson's fedorapeople directories.
00:48:41 <rbergeron> rather, the goal is to put it on fedorahosted, but there are some fun bits in there (like converting it to git, etc).
00:48:47 <rbergeron> anyway - administrivia.
00:49:01 <rbergeron> jjmcd: did you and john normally do that - via telephone?
00:49:02 <jjmcd> Just bump nb.  I'm sure he can fix that
00:49:07 <jjmcd> Yeah
00:49:18 <rbergeron> oh
00:49:22 * rbergeron was unaware!
00:49:27 <jjmcd> Usually talk, although I'm not sure email wouldn't work almost as well at this point
00:49:41 <jjmcd> But in real time you pick up subtleties
00:50:10 <jjmcd> Sometimes we do hard things for someone else when they would really prefer  something else but they never asked
00:51:05 <jjmcd> But the F10 sked was a disaster, and each release got a little better.  F14 was quite good
00:51:08 <rbergeron> do you want me to try and corral everyone (i'm not sure how many folks we're talking about here) for sometime next week or after the first?
00:51:47 <jjmcd> I should be relatively loose.  Seems to me that we often had 5 or 6 folks, although all I can remember was poelcat and noriko
00:52:27 <rbergeron> do you think it would be valuable to continue doing it?
00:52:35 <sgordon> will probably be easier to get people after the 1st
00:52:51 * sgordon notes the tumbleweeds rolling through the meeting
00:53:07 <jjmcd> I'm thinking that it may have gotten simple enough that trying to get everyone together in real time might be harder than it is worth
00:53:40 <jjmcd> We know the F14 sked from a docs perspective was pretty good.  I need to figure out what the one uh-oh was.
00:53:54 <jjmcd> If it was good for L10N too, then we should be good to go
00:55:00 <sgordon> ok
00:55:23 <sgordon> im probably going to wrap up the meeting now unless anyone has anything else?
00:56:18 <rbergeron> jjmcd: just let me know - I can add / change and you can take a look to see if it works.
00:56:29 <jhradilek> Thanks for an interesting meeting, sgordon. :-)
00:56:34 <sgordon> lawl
00:56:39 <jjmcd> Wilco.  I haven't had a chance to really digest it yet
00:56:51 <jjmcd> Yeah.  Thanks for standing in
00:57:02 <sgordon> yeap, scheduling TBC in the next meeting as per the action item I threw in earlier
00:57:10 <sgordon> plenty to talk about no doubt...
00:57:11 <sgordon> thanks all
00:57:16 <sgordon> #endmeeting