16:00:12 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
16:00:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 24 16:00:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:16 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
16:00:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
16:00:24 <jlaska> #topic Gathering ...
16:00:37 <jlaska> Show of electronic hands for the fedora-qa meeting ...
16:00:53 <adamw> yo!
16:00:56 * Southern_Gentlem 
16:01:04 <jlaska> howdy adamw Southern_Gentlem
16:01:14 <Cerlyn> here
16:01:18 * kparal here
16:01:37 <jlaska> greetings Cerlyn + kparal
16:02:11 * fenrus02 waves
16:02:16 <jlaska> howdy fenrus02
16:02:55 <jlaska> anyone else want to say hello to the logs?
16:03:03 <jlaska> kparal: is jskladan still under the weather today?
16:03:47 <kparal> jlaska: I have no word of him
16:04:52 <jlaska> okay ... I hope he is well
16:05:14 <jlaska> shall we get started ... any stragglers can join during the meeting
16:06:12 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
16:06:41 <jlaska> #info fcami's bodhi patch was reviewed and accepted, thanks lmacken!
16:07:09 * lmacken will push it to production "this week"
16:07:10 <jlaska> #info follow-up on advisory-board thread on media requirements for spins (http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-January/010271.html)
16:07:17 <fenrus02> and there was much rejoicing :)
16:07:18 <jlaska> lmacken: sweet, thanks
16:07:43 <jlaska> I haven't followed up on the multi-dvd requirements discussion ... we had an open request for feedback on that I think
16:08:26 <jlaska> I should have figured ... looking at the thread, I see adamw all over it
16:08:28 <fenrus02> jlaska, from what i have read, most of your requirements already work
16:09:22 * adamw away, call of nature
16:09:22 <jlaska> anything else on this topic?
16:10:27 * jlaska takes silence as a no
16:10:39 <jlaska> #topic Wiki and Nitrate TCMS - Move to next step (ticket#152)
16:10:52 <jlaska> You probably saw some mails on this topic last week
16:11:03 <jlaska> Hurry sent an update to the list and asked to raise this topic during the meeting
16:11:16 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tcms_use_cases
16:11:20 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tcms_Comparison
16:11:50 <jlaska> #info Based on the comments, I modified the requirements and moved to the more formal wiki pages
16:12:08 <jlaska> As for next steps ...
16:12:27 <jlaska> #info Next step ... Identify Must-Have + Nice-to-Have features to find any feature gaps we'd need from Nitrate. Such features will firstly be marked in the comparison table[2], and then summarized in a separate page for reference.
16:12:41 <jlaska> #info Next step ... Write scripts for importing xml files from wiki to nitrate. The xml files exported from wiki has different format from the files to be imported to nitrate, therefore, scripts are needed to do the conversion. Volunteers are welcomed!
16:13:28 <adamw> sorry sorry
16:13:42 <jlaska> And just a general comment ...
16:14:07 <jlaska> #help Anyone interested in helping to understand our current QA wiki workflows, identifying TCMS requirements or exploring/deploying a nitrate staging instance is encouraged to help
16:14:18 <jlaska> adamw: no worries ... nature has all of our phone numbers
16:14:40 <jlaska> any questions comments on this subject?
16:15:20 <adamw> i think for most people it's hard to interact with until there's a test instance up
16:15:33 <jlaska> yeah, I suspect that will solicit a lot of feedback
16:15:52 <jlaska> use cases and requirements are important, but difficult to encourage contributions
16:15:56 <jlaska> at least, that's my impression
16:16:29 <jlaska> I mentioned to Hurry that I could submit a RFR to infrastructure for a test instance ... but I may have missed the response
16:16:37 <jlaska> I'll double check with her on that
16:16:39 * jlaska makes note
16:17:02 <jlaska> okay ... changing topics ...
16:17:09 <jlaska> #topic Adjusting proventesters group to be invite-only
16:17:43 <jlaska> Mike Cloaked pointed out on the list that there was a gap in our proventester sign-up procedure
16:17:47 * jlaska finds link
16:18:00 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-January/096511.html
16:18:29 <jlaska> The problem is that the FAS group is open for anyone to request membership ... but the documented procedure requires saying hello using a ticket to fedora-qa
16:18:34 <jlaska> (which is sent to test@)
16:18:43 <adamw> well, we have the same issue with bugzappers
16:18:54 <jlaska> I thought nirik had a fine solution for this ... which was to make the FAS group invite-only
16:18:57 <adamw> usually we (bugzappers moderators) just manually clean up the bad requests once in a while
16:19:13 <adamw> that works too, i guess
16:19:37 <jlaska> Reading the feedback on the agenda ... Viking-Ice seemed a bit upset about the idea
16:19:44 <fenrus02> adamw, "once in a while" == daily remove any that sat for 7 days.
16:19:52 <jlaska> I believe the concern was we were putting up barriers to joining the group
16:20:45 <fenrus02> emailing test@ with an introduction hardly seems like a barrier?
16:20:52 <jlaska> that was my take as well
16:21:13 <jlaska> having a group where anyone can click to become a member, but not doing anything ... seems silly
16:21:27 <jlaska> but I could be wrong
16:21:27 <fenrus02> no sponsor that way ... trouble
16:21:36 <adamw> well, we're not _approving_ those requests
16:21:47 <fenrus02> at the very least, folks should receive a "welcome package" that includes proper ways to do things
16:21:47 <adamw> what we could do with them is email the applicants and say 'hey, can you please complete the process properly'
16:21:48 <jlaska> right
16:22:11 <fenrus02> adamw, for bz, i do exactly that.
16:22:21 <adamw> me too
16:22:24 <jlaska> that's another option
16:22:33 <jlaska> do we want to make a recommendation here?
16:22:34 <adamw> so yeah, in theory, we may lose some people if we make the group invite-only and they're hard of reading
16:22:46 <adamw> they may go 'duhh...it doesn't work' and give up, rather than figuring out the right process
16:22:49 <adamw> hard to be sure, though.
16:23:23 <jlaska> as long as the manual responses to these requests are in the single digits ... if we have 100's people applying without going through the process
16:23:51 <jlaska> I don't see anything wrong with making proventesters invite-only at that point
16:24:03 <jlaska> so who scrubs this list ... proventester admins?
16:24:09 <adamw> yeah
16:24:22 <fenrus02> jlaska, some sponsor
16:24:24 <adamw> as a side-note, we figured out that it's good to BCC the other admins when you do one
16:24:29 <adamw> so other admins know it's been taken care of
16:24:33 <jlaska> that was going to be my questoin
16:24:39 <adamw> there's an alias to use
16:24:39 <jlaska> question
16:24:59 <fenrus02> foo-sponsors@fp.o is the format for the alias
16:25:12 <jlaska> should I document this on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Proven_tester#Mentoring_process
16:25:20 <jlaska> or does this fall under 'common-sense' category?
16:25:34 <adamw> erf, probably better to write it down
16:25:41 <adamw> i see that bus a-comin'
16:25:45 <fenrus02> jlaska, please add to the wiki page
16:25:46 <jlaska> yeah :)
16:25:51 <fenrus02> jlaska, otherwise folks will "forget"
16:25:55 <jlaska> alright, I'll add some content and send out to the wiki
16:26:21 <jlaska> #action jlaska - update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Proven_tester#Mentoring_process with information about how to handle FAS group requests without a corresponding ticket
16:26:45 <jlaska> does this also mean -1 from everyone for the proposal to make the FAS group invite-only?
16:27:33 <jlaska> fenrus02: adamw: ?
16:27:42 <jlaska> I assume so ... just clarifying
16:28:32 <adamw> yeah, for now
16:28:43 <adamw> as you said, if we're not coping with the manual process, we can re-visit it
16:28:45 <fenrus02> jlaska, i am missing how a trac ticket becomes a barrier.  it requires a FAS login, same as clicking 'add'.  We should have a "dont click invite, submit trac ticket for invite" message
16:29:11 <jlaska> #info decided to update wiki documentation to clarify process for handling join requests w/o a ticket
16:29:36 <jlaska> fenrus02: yeah, the thread outlined some nice-to-have features for FAS ... but I'm leaving that out of this meeting
16:30:07 <jlaska> #topic Better living through automation ... autoqa
16:30:23 <jlaska> kparal: have a few moments to walk us through the latest'n'greatest?
16:30:31 <kparal> sure
16:30:50 * kparal opening his notes
16:31:15 <kparal> this time it's very brief, don't be afraid. the last week's changes:
16:31:26 <kparal> #info new_koji_watcher and depcheck branch were reviewed
16:31:32 <kparal> Some issues were raised, jskladan and wwoods are working on addressing them.
16:31:35 <jlaska> ooh ... kudos for meetbot commands! :D
16:31:54 <wwoods> I should have a new patch for review later today
16:32:01 <kparal> great
16:32:02 <wwoods> actually I guess I can send it right now
16:32:10 <kparal> jskladan unfortunately seems to be sick or something
16:32:33 <kparal> next...
16:32:37 <kparal> #info Together with the review of new_koji_watcher branch we have found a bug in Bodhi where it incorrectly used -pending tags on certain packages. lmacken quickly created a patch, which should be pushed into production soon.
16:32:43 <kparal> #link https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/changeset/d6218003bda6ce41f85d1a71260aa4152ec63b41
16:33:10 <kparal> I have no estimate when it should be in production, lmacken here?
16:33:41 <kparal> nevermind
16:33:49 <kparal> and the last one:
16:33:49 <lmacken> this week, definitely
16:33:51 <lmacken> maybe today
16:33:55 <kparal> ah, great
16:34:14 <kparal> lmacken: do you also plan to clean up those package that will have incorrect tags?
16:34:30 <kparal> *that have
16:34:35 <lmacken> kparal: yeah, I think I already added the corresponding checks to my sanity checking code for it
16:34:48 <kparal> great
16:34:58 <kparal> thanks lmacken
16:35:04 <lmacken> np
16:35:10 <kparal> and lastly:
16:35:13 <kparal> #info jlaska fixed issues that prevented autotest from building on Fedora 14
16:35:17 <kparal> That means latest autotest is finally available for Fedora 14 machines, hooray.
16:35:26 * jlaska had help from lmr
16:36:18 <kparal> kudos to lmr too
16:36:37 <kparal> ok, that's the last week in a nutshell
16:36:56 <jlaska> kparal: thanks for the updates ... anything else you wanted to highlight for next steps?
16:38:20 * Viking-Ice joins in late fracking Spain opened a can of whoopass on our team
16:38:23 <kparal> well, we have a lot of big changes and we want to do a new release. that means we will make sure it works ok -- lot of testing
16:38:39 <kparal> or at least a little :-)
16:38:44 <jlaska> kparal: sounds good! :)
16:38:46 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: welcome
16:39:13 <jlaska> okay ... last topic I had on the agenda ...
16:39:15 <jlaska> #topic Thu, Jan 27 Test Day -- Network device naming
16:39:38 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-01-27_Network_Device_Naming_With_Biosdevname
16:39:54 <jlaska> I think we're looking pretty good on this event from a preparation perspective
16:40:00 <jlaska> the wiki and test cases look good to me
16:40:02 <adamw> yeah, me too
16:40:09 <adamw> if people could spread the word this week it'd be good
16:40:20 <adamw> i'll try and get things out to a few news outlets as this definitely has a potential wider audience
16:40:33 <jlaska> Narendra outlined some tests they wanted to run that would need a rawhide boot.iso ... I'll be pulling down a new lorax from mgracik and will try to pungi up some images shortly
16:40:44 <jlaska> adamw: awesome, thanks
16:40:59 <jlaska> Dell has done a lot of prep for this event ... I'm pretty impressed
16:41:18 <adamw> yeah, and they've been very interactive
16:41:31 <jlaska> cool seeing this type of interaction
16:41:41 <jlaska> almost like someone wrote a really nice SOP for this
16:41:48 <jlaska> gosh ... let me thank that person when I see him or her
16:42:19 <adamw> haha
16:42:20 <jlaska> Narendra sent me a script that participants can run to determine whether they have affected hardware
16:42:31 <adamw> yay! my word is their command
16:42:32 <jlaska> I'll upload that to the wiki shortly and add links to hte page
16:42:41 <jlaska> adamw: operation colada continues
16:42:56 <adamw> where's that jimmy buffett cd
16:43:16 <jlaska> I threw it away, many years ago
16:43:25 <jlaska> okay folks ... it's that time again ...
16:43:37 * jlaska adds a few meetbot comments first
16:43:58 <jlaska> #info jlaska will upload a script provided by Narendra to help participants determine if they have applicable hardware
16:44:23 <jlaska> #info Wiki looking good ... many thanks to Narendar & Dell for preparation
16:44:36 <jlaska> #help Spread the word -- Test Day this week -- Thu 27, 2011
16:45:08 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - <Your topic here>
16:45:30 <jlaska> alright ... open discussion time
16:45:32 <jlaska> any takers?
16:46:01 * jlaska sets the fuse at 2 minutes
16:46:20 <jlaska> #topic Next meeting
16:46:26 <fenrus02> fireworks display?
16:46:33 <jlaska> fenrus02: excellent idea! :)
16:46:51 <jlaska> Just a heads up ... I likely won't be online for the meeting next week
16:47:10 <jlaska> I'm happy to send topics to the list on Friday again ... and if anyone is around and wants to drive ... please feel free to
16:47:15 <jlaska> and remember ... #meetbot is your friend
16:47:30 <jlaska> #info jlaska won't be available for next week meeting (FUDCon)
16:47:47 <jlaska> #info Will send topics to the list this week ... anyone welcome to host the meeting next week
16:47:55 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - <Your topic here>
16:48:35 * jlaska resets fuse at 1 minute
16:49:06 <jlaska> meeting ends in 30 seconds ...
16:49:12 * adamw will drive next week if no-one else wants to
16:49:44 <jlaska> alright ... thanks for your time everyone
16:49:46 <jlaska> let's call end of meeting
16:49:53 <jlaska> I'll send a recap to the list
16:49:55 <jlaska> #endmeeting