14:59:54 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
14:59:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May  2 14:59:54 2011 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:59:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:59:58 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
14:59:58 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:03 <jlaska> #topic Roll Call
15:00:20 * kparal first
15:00:20 <jlaska> Happy Monday all ... anyone lurking for the QA meeting?
15:00:23 * brunowolff is here
15:00:56 <jlaska> Hi kparal and brunowolff
15:00:59 * tflink is here
15:01:03 * jlaska tips hat to tflink
15:01:30 * jlaska surprised to see vhumpa
15:01:55 <jlaska> will wait a few more minutes ...
15:02:26 <jlaska> robatino: are you available for the meeting?
15:02:33 * robatino here
15:02:41 <jlaska> yay!
15:03:06 * jsmith-busy lurks
15:03:32 <jlaska> okay, well ... let's get moving.  I'm not sure if adamw will be with us today, and I'm sure jskladan is lurking
15:03:41 <adamw> yo
15:03:47 <adamw> oooh, i'm a ghost!
15:03:58 <jlaska> cool, already you are here :)
15:04:02 <jlaska> welcome back
15:04:12 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:04:17 <kparal> jlaska: jskladan regrets but can't attend
15:04:31 <jlaska> kparal: okay, thanks.  Hope all is well
15:04:43 <jlaska> We didn't gather for a meeting last week ... so I don't have any action items
15:04:53 <jlaska> but there were a few items from the Friday blocker review
15:05:17 <jlaska> #info adamw reached out to rdieter for status of 684846 - COMPLETED
15:05:44 <jlaska> and there is a new selinux-policy available for testing, score!
15:06:06 <jlaska> #info jlaska - reach out to mgracik for input on 696320 - COMPLETED - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/firstboot-1.118-1.fc15
15:06:18 <jlaska> #info jlaska - add https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/imsettings-1.2.2-1.fc15 to F15-TC1 rel-eng ticket - COMPLETED - more on this later
15:06:31 <tflink> is that the same selinux-policy that's failing depcheck right now?
15:06:34 <jlaska> #info jlaska - test 700085 using an updates.img prior to Final TC1 - COMPLETED - just tsted ... looks good
15:06:44 <jlaska> tflink: sounds like you're more up to speed on that
15:07:02 <jlaska> That's all I have on my list ... any other outstanding items from last week?
15:07:46 <jlaska> alright, moving on ...
15:07:59 <jlaska> #topic F-15-Final-TC1 status
15:08:20 <jlaska> According to the schedule, Final TC1 should be arriving sometime today
15:08:21 <jlaska> #link http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-quality-tasks.html
15:08:43 <jlaska> I didn't see any Final rel-eng tickets yet, so I created 2 so we can track any bodhi updates that need to be included
15:08:50 <jlaska> #link https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4685
15:08:59 <jlaska> and ...
15:09:00 <jlaska> #link https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4686
15:09:11 <adamw> cool
15:09:18 <jlaska> adamw: I *think* I got all the items we noted from last Friday .. but lemme know if I missed any
15:09:45 <jlaska> if these tickets get closed or dup'd by any autogenerated ones, let's just make sure the list of updates is fwd'd
15:10:24 <jlaska> I still need to catch up with clumens for a anaconda-15.30-1 build, but I know he's already started the process on his end
15:10:38 <jlaska> the blocker list seems to have cleaned up well since Friday
15:10:40 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Current_Release_Blockers
15:10:44 <maxamillion> bah! ... Re: Roll Call - /me is here
15:10:53 <jlaska> Hi maxa :)
15:10:59 <adamw> you're late, stand in the corner
15:11:08 <jlaska> we have 2 proposed items ... any objections if we attempt to knock those out here (*quickly*)?
15:11:16 <jlaska> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=700967
15:11:22 <jlaska> ^^^ seems pretty straight forward
15:12:21 <jlaska> This appears to impact the final criteria "All applications listed under the Applications menu or category must start successfully"
15:12:36 <jlaska> and this is for KDE ... which does qualify as a blocker I believe
15:12:51 <adamw> sure
15:12:51 <jlaska> any comments/objections?
15:12:57 <jlaska> +1 Blocker for that
15:12:59 <adamw> +1
15:13:14 * maxamillion stands in the corner in shame
15:13:27 <maxamillion> +1
15:13:37 <maxamillion> (from the corner)
15:13:37 <jlaska> #agreed 700967 - AcceptedBlocker - Impacts basic application functionality for s-c-lang when run by KDE
15:13:52 <jlaska> adamw: I'll note in the bz post-meeting
15:13:55 <adamw> ok
15:13:59 <jlaska> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=696278
15:14:07 <jlaska> I don't feel any closer to understanding this issue
15:14:24 <jlaska> I've got a preupgrade test inprogress, so we'll see
15:14:32 <jlaska> but still no idea what the root cause is here
15:14:49 <jlaska> adamw: any brilliant ideas on your end?
15:14:57 <brunowolff> +1 for 700967 as well (I was reading it while you guys were voting)
15:15:00 <adamw> reading
15:15:09 <jlaska> brunowolff: noted, thank you
15:15:15 <adamw> oh, that one
15:15:18 <jlaska> yeah :(
15:15:26 <adamw> well no, i had no real idea before and i don't now
15:15:35 <adamw> it's worth noting that we only guarantee upgrades from _clean install_
15:15:53 <adamw> "The installer must be able to successfully complete an upgrade installation from a clean, fully updated default installation (from any official install medium) of the previous stable Fedora release, either via preupgrade or by booting to the installer manually. "
15:16:14 <adamw> we don't really guarantee any upgrade from a 'real' working system; it's just too hard to do
15:16:21 <jlaska> definitely
15:16:33 <jlaska> I asked for a slew of additional logs from their systems
15:16:38 <adamw> so if neither of them hit this on a clean install that could be a -1
15:16:40 <jlaska> maybe that'll help us figure out the paths taken
15:16:58 <jlaska> and we'll get some good preupgrade testing this week against TC1 ... that'll be informative
15:17:04 <adamw> we'd still want to look at getting it fixed, of course, but it might not be a blocker
15:17:05 <adamw> yep
15:17:10 <brunowolff> It sounds like it could still be NTH if many people might experience this on upgrade.
15:17:18 <adamw> brunowolff: sure, could be
15:17:30 <jlaska> so ... shall we keep this as is until we can further pinpoint _a_ cause?
15:17:43 <jlaska> it sounds like it's still in triage to me ... nothing tangible for a maintainer yet
15:17:48 <jlaska> ack/nak/patch?
15:18:01 <maxamillion> I think the statement might also mention something about "upgrade not guaranteed in a situation where third party repositories are enabled and any software installed from outside of the official Fedora repositories is not guaranteed to work post-upgrade"
15:18:22 <maxamillion> </random_thoughts>
15:18:23 <brunowolff> It would be nice to keep an eye on it in blocker discussions until we have a better idea of the cause.
15:18:36 <jlaska> brunowolff: right ... I don't think we need to Reject it yet
15:18:39 <tflink> jlaska: ack
15:18:45 <adamw> jlaska: ack
15:18:59 <jlaska> so I guess the decision is ot keep i on the proposed list for now ... continue monitoring (and hopefully attempting to recreate the failure)
15:18:59 <adamw> maxamillion: i'd worry about the precedent of describing a negative case in the criteria
15:19:05 <adamw> maxamillion: it could be a slippery slope:)
15:19:15 <adamw> writing down all the things that aren't covered would take a while...
15:19:50 <jlaska> #agreed 696278 - Continue traiging - Still unclear on the exact cause, and the exact failure.  Requested additional logs from reporters, preupgrade is planned for testing against TC1
15:19:57 <maxamillion> adamw: good point
15:20:04 <jlaska> okay, thanks ... this concludes our mini blocker review
15:20:19 <jlaska> I know kparal and vhumpa wanted to experience taste  :)
15:20:32 <maxamillion> adamw: I just worry more about unrealistic expectations of users ... but I do agree that the documentation would quickly get overly verbose
15:20:43 <jlaska> so ... stay tuned to those rel-eng tickets for when ISO's arrive
15:21:03 <kparal> jlaska: thank you :)
15:21:04 <jlaska> robatino: will you be doing the wiki updates and announcements, or will that be Tao Wu?
15:21:13 <jlaska> kparal: trust me, my pleasure!! :D
15:21:17 <robatino> jlaska: afaik it'll be me
15:21:46 <jlaska> robatino: okay ... drop me a line if I can help in any way.  You've clearly done it before and I think qualify as an expert here :)
15:22:13 <jlaska> If no other thoughts on F15-Final-TC1 ... we'll move on
15:22:23 <robatino> i'll be fully spelling out "test compose" and "release candidate" in the announcements since there were complaints in the devel list
15:22:45 <adamw> robatino: great thinking
15:22:58 <jlaska> robatino: heh, sure.  I hadn't realized those weren't generally accepted terms.  Yeah +good_idea :)
15:23:14 <jlaska> Note, TC1 will mark the start of a hectic 2+ weeks
15:23:27 <jlaska> I know everyone will do there best to stay on top of bugs, and provide feedback in a timely manner
15:23:43 <jlaska> if anything feels stuck or is missing information ... don't hesitate to make noise
15:24:00 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA update
15:24:30 <jlaska> kparal, also known as the most interesting man in the world ... take it away
15:24:47 <kparal> not me, that's our mascot
15:25:00 <kparal> http://troll.me/images/the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world/i-dont-always-test-my-code-but-when-i-do-i-do-it-in-production.jpg.pagespeed.ce.rM9YUkz0Br.jpg
15:25:06 <kparal> alright
15:25:16 <kparal> Here's a short update from the AutoQA world.
15:25:20 <maxamillion> kparal: greast poster *EVAR*
15:25:32 <kparal> maxamillion: kudos to jlaska
15:25:37 <kparal> #info As you might have noticed, we have released AutoQA 0.4.7 last week.
15:25:44 <kparal> #link https://kparal.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/autoqa-0-4-7-released/
15:25:56 * jlaska does a dance ... nice work team
15:26:00 <kparal> We hope that we have finally fixed all problems in depcheck and upgradepath tests and they will produce correct results now.
15:26:23 <kparal> In the meantime we have received some complaints about the number of emails AutoQA sends (through Bodhi comments) and the readability of the logs.
15:26:36 <kparal> According to tflink's suggestion we have decided to concentrate on those complaints first. Therefore we have wiped all the previous plans for 0.5.0 and started from scratch.
15:26:44 <kparal> #info The main topic of the next 0.5.0 release should be "making AutoQA outputs more maintainer-friendly".
15:26:55 <kparal> That mainly includes sending less emails and improving contents of our logs.
15:27:14 <adamw> sounds like a good idea
15:27:16 <jlaska> I trust those changes will be well received by devel@
15:27:24 <kparal> usual call: If anyone has some suggestions related to that, please send your ideas to autoqa-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org.
15:28:02 <kparal> And that's all! (in a nutshell)
15:28:08 <jlaska> [ OK ] dist-f15 + dist-f15-updates
15:28:18 <jlaska> I love that update ... boy, I completely missed that idea a while ago
15:28:18 <adamw> i guess you did a quick list based on the feedback received so far already?
15:29:12 <kparal> adamw: quick list of what? we have filed some tickets in our Trac according to the feedback
15:29:18 <kparal> and we discuss them on autoqa-devel
15:29:31 <jlaska> I think discussion of those is still underway?
15:29:37 <kparal> yes
15:29:43 * kparal is just writing one reply
15:29:46 <jlaska> or ... there is a tentative meeting scheduled for this week?
15:29:51 <jlaska> s/or/and/
15:30:12 <adamw> kparal: quick list of ideas
15:30:15 <tflink> yeah, we're waiting on scheduling feedback for that one
15:30:17 <adamw> so the answer's yes :)
15:30:18 <kparal> jlaska: we just agreed with tflink we could have conference call tentatively on wednesday. depends on jskladan
15:30:33 <kparal> adamw: yes :)
15:31:06 <kparal> we don't want to fail our maintainers, that's our user base :)
15:31:33 <jlaska> anything else exciting on the AutoQA front?
15:32:01 <jlaska> seems like autoqa-0.4.7 went off without a glitch ... nicely done all
15:32:05 <kparal> I think that's all from this weel
15:32:08 <kparal> *week
15:32:24 <jlaska> okay, many thanks kparal tflink vhumpa jskladan :)
15:32:27 <kparal> jlaska: well, production testing seems to be working
15:32:34 <kparal> and jlaska
15:32:56 <jlaska> so, the only other thing I had on the agenda was a quick schedule reminder ...
15:33:06 <jlaska> #topic Upcoming QA events
15:33:11 <jlaska> #info Monday, May 02 (TODAY) - Final TC1 testing starts
15:33:19 <jlaska> #link http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-quality-tasks.html
15:33:25 <jlaska> #info Friday, May 06 - Final blocker review meeting
15:33:44 <jlaska> I won't be available for the last scheduled blocker meeting this Friday ... but I can still send out the announcement etc...
15:33:52 <jlaska> we can coordinate as we get closer to ensure someone will be around
15:34:09 <jlaska> if not ... kparal can host from a pub or something! :D
15:34:33 <adamw> i'll be around
15:34:40 <adamw> (i think)
15:34:58 <jlaska> heh, okay ... we can work out the details later in the week
15:35:03 <jlaska> #info Wednesday, May 11 - Final Candidate testing starts
15:35:07 <jlaska> #info Tuesday, May 17 - Go/NoGo meeting
15:35:18 <jlaska> so that's 2+ weeks until the go/no_go
15:35:21 <jlaska> that'll go *fast*
15:35:56 <jlaska> any thoughts/questions/haiku?
15:36:11 <jlaska> if not ... we'll move on to the open-mic portion of the show
15:36:12 <adamw> prayers?
15:36:13 <adamw> :)
15:36:20 <kparal> 古池や蛙飛込む水の音ふるいけやかわずとびこむみずのおと
15:36:25 * vhumpa promises to read the log when he's done with evil JavaEE :-)
15:36:36 * kparal hopes it is a polite haiku
15:36:36 <jlaska> vhumpa: good luck with that beast!
15:36:48 * tflink shudders ... JavaEE
15:37:05 <jlaska> kparal: boy, you got me stumped on that one
15:37:41 <tflink> kparal: my japanese is a bit rusty but it looks OK to me
15:38:02 <kparal> ok, I admit, I copied that from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku#Examples
15:38:03 <adamw> kparal: that's what SHE said
15:38:03 <kparal> :)
15:38:11 <jlaska> adamw: LOL!!
15:38:29 <jlaska> good times in the land of Fedora QA  :)
15:38:36 <jlaska> #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>
15:38:43 <jlaska> I think we've moved on this this #topic already :)
15:38:50 * adamw realizes 'that's what she said' is weirdly difficult to render in japanese
15:38:58 <jlaska> any business not already discussed that we need to consider?
15:39:24 <adamw> did we review the cloud test days?
15:39:24 <jlaska> robatino: Viking-Ice: anything items/concerns from you as we prepare for TC1?
15:39:36 <tflink> not that I'm aware of
15:39:48 <robatino> jlaska: session saving in upgrades
15:40:16 <adamw> there's a fix for that coming down the pipe afaik
15:40:20 <tflink> do we usually do the test day review or the group involved?
15:40:31 <jlaska> robatino: I saw your feedback in that bz ... I'll be sure to test that as well.  While I did experience that random black background ... it seems to save the session and no longer hang on login anymore
15:40:39 <adamw> tflink: well, we usually just mention it in a meeting. the people running the test day should do the recap, but i can poke them to make sure it's going to happen
15:40:55 <tflink> K, I'll poke them but they're all at JBW this week
15:40:58 <adamw> ok
15:41:05 <robatino> i'm worried whether people who had it enabled before upgrade will have to struggle with it or it'll work immediately
15:41:07 <adamw> it looks like boxgrinder went off well and EC2 was DOA?
15:41:09 <jlaska> #info action tflink to follow-up with cloud sig for test day recap
15:41:12 <jlaska> tflink: thanks!
15:41:27 <adamw> jlaska: info or action? :)
15:41:32 <jlaska> adamw: doh, thanks
15:41:34 <tflink> yeah, I wasn't able to get any of the EC2 images to work
15:41:34 <jlaska> #undo
15:41:34 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x14bc47cc>
15:41:39 <jlaska> #action tflink to follow-up with cloud sig for test day recap
15:41:58 <tflink> there has already been an update to BG for some of the issues found during the test day, though
15:42:09 <jlaska> robatino: I'll do another upgrade test after the meeting.  We can sync up in #fedora-qa afterwards?
15:42:23 <robatino> i'll be there
15:42:35 <jlaska> re: cloud test day - there aren't a ton of results on the wiki ... but the channel seemed to be active all day long
15:42:44 <jlaska> so that seemed fairly positive
15:42:56 <tflink> jlaska: yeah, the number of people wasn't a whole lot
15:42:57 <adamw> tflink: nice. the testers were external too, right, not just people from the group?
15:43:16 <tflink> not sure - might have been from the BG community
15:43:30 <adamw> tflink: still counts =)
15:43:44 <adamw> jlaska: as long as the results were useful and we get some fixes i'd call that a win
15:43:49 <jlaska> #info Robatino expressed concerns about gnome-session-saving support for users upgrading from F14->F15.  Will focus additional testing and review results in #fedora-qa
15:44:11 <tflink> adamw: there were people I didn't recognize, so if that's what you were asking - yeah
15:44:18 <adamw> cool
15:44:30 <jlaska> adamw: agreed ... I mentioned to tflink, I was keen on just getting some experience with these components ... not so interested in sheer results
15:44:44 <jlaska> s/sheer/number of/
15:45:03 <jlaska> alright ... any other discussion items?
15:45:35 <jlaska> #info tflink and adamw discussed the Cloud SIG test day, tflink will follow-up with the Cloud SIG for an event recap
15:45:56 <jlaska> alright ... if no other topics ... let's #endmeeting in 1 minute
15:46:19 <jlaska> something always feels satisfying about not having a 1+ hour QA meeting
15:46:30 <jlaska> we save that for the blocker reviews :D
15:46:50 <jlaska> 10 seconds until #endmeeting ...
15:46:58 <jlaska> Thanks everyone for your time today!
15:47:04 <jlaska> I'll follow-up to the list with minutes
15:47:11 <jlaska> Good luck testing these next 2+ weeks
15:47:16 <jlaska> #endmeeting