17:00:01 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2011-05-05)
17:00:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May  5 17:00:01 2011 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:01 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
17:00:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
17:00:01 <nirik> #topic init process
17:00:10 <nirik> who all is around for an irc support sig meeting.
17:00:23 * DiscordianUK 
17:01:25 <vettyp> nirik: I am here to watch and learn
17:01:34 <nirik> cool. welcome.
17:01:39 * N3LRX 
17:04:19 * Southern_Gentlem 
17:04:38 <vettyp> thanks
17:04:39 <thomasj> Oh, already rollcall?
17:04:48 <thomasj> Present
17:05:15 <nirik> #topic Week in review
17:05:15 <nirik> http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:05:34 <nirik> pretty busy week.
17:05:37 <nirik> lots of f15 stuff.
17:06:10 <nirik> anything anyone cares to note from the previous week?
17:06:30 <Southern_Gentlem> ooks fairly normal
17:06:33 <Southern_Gentlem> l
17:06:46 <thomasj> omg.. i made it on #21   woooo
17:07:15 <nirik> thomasj: welcome back. ;)
17:07:16 <Southern_Gentlem> thomasj, come on and knock me off the top
17:07:22 <ciupicri> I made it #11 ... I'm even more surprised
17:07:23 <thomasj> nirik, thanks :)
17:07:43 <thomasj> Southern_Gentlem, i had that once, it was hard work :)
17:08:03 <thomasj> And just for a couple days
17:08:33 <nirik> ok, if nothing else for week in review, onward...
17:08:37 <nirik> #topic feedback tickets
17:08:38 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
17:09:00 <nirik> .title https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/48
17:09:02 <zodbot> nirik: #48 (NFS shares mount as nobody even if uid/gid match (F14)) - irc-support-sig - Trac
17:09:20 <nirik> kudos to mutik on that
17:09:25 <Southern_Gentlem> +1 mutk
17:09:32 <DiscordianUK> indeed
17:09:46 <thomasj> kudos yeah
17:09:57 <nirik> thats the only open ticket right now.
17:10:04 <nirik> which brings us to...
17:10:09 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
17:10:32 <nirik> anyone have anything for open floor?
17:10:35 <ciupicri> what's the meaning of open floor?
17:10:35 <Southern_Gentlem> move to close #48
17:10:54 <nirik> ciupicri: anyone can bring up topics related to the group that should be discussed.
17:10:54 <thomasj> Topics not on the agenda
17:11:39 <ciupicri> I see. Well I was thinking about the feedback. In order for someone to give positive (or other) feedback he must create a Fedora account
17:11:39 <Southern_Gentlem> shall i close #48?
17:11:52 <thomasj> Southern_Gentlem, +1
17:11:53 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: sure. thanks.
17:12:03 <nirik> ciupicri: indeed true.
17:12:20 <Southern_Gentlem> ciupicri,  they have to register to get in the #fedora channel
17:12:26 <ciupicri> which newbies might not want to do for various reasons: laziness, tons of other accounts etc.
17:12:30 <nirik> We could open the trac to anyone able to make tickets, but then I suspect we would have a ton of spam.
17:12:52 <ciupicri> Southern_Gentlem, register on FreeNode, but not on Fedora as far as I know
17:13:34 <Southern_Gentlem> ciupicri,  we actually have discussed this before and someone came up with more good reasons to require registration
17:13:36 <thomasj> ciupicri, that was discussed before we decided it. That way we don't have hit-and-run reporter. Reporter have to think about what they write. And not just: #fedora sucks.
17:15:26 <ciupicri> nirik, regarding spam maybe an anti-spam system could be developed which would require the submitter to send an answer to fedora's bot on the #fedora channel or something
17:15:29 <nirik> also, there is a mailing list.
17:15:37 <nirik> anyone who wishes can subscribe there and post.
17:15:37 <PauseBazinga> there's a room that you get redirected to as a non-registered user, is there a bot in there that'll tell folks about registering on freenode to clear up any confusion?
17:15:51 <nirik> ciupicri: feel free to implement such a trac plugin for us. ;)
17:15:52 <thomasj> yes
17:15:56 <thomasj> sorry
17:15:59 <thomasj> PauseBazinga, yes
17:16:01 <Southern_Gentlem> PauseBazinga,  yep
17:16:13 <PauseBazinga> thomasj, rog.  seems sufficient
17:16:26 <ciupicri> nirik, I'll think about it, I just wanted some feedback about the idea. I don't want to implement it then notice that no one likes the idea :-)
17:16:37 <PauseBazinga> I picked up fedora a couple of weeks ago, I didn't have any trouble figuring it out
17:16:46 <Southern_Gentlem> You are here in #fedora-unregistered because you are not identified with freenode. Please: a) register - http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup (including email step) b) configure your client to identify - http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#identify and/or /msg nickserv identify then c) /join #fedora for support.
17:17:01 <nirik> ciupicri: yeah, worth talking about. If we can think of some way to avoid the spam, might be worth doing.
17:17:09 <thomasj> PauseBazinga, yet some people just need to learn to read and understand the message posted in -unreg :)
17:17:14 <Southern_Gentlem> PauseBazinga,  that is the message the bot sends to everyone entering the -unregistered channel
17:17:50 <ciupicri> nirik, so the user fills a report on Trac then the Fedora bot ask on #fedora a confirmation from the user. This is what I have in mind. Does it sound good to you?
17:18:03 <N3LRX> Does trac have a captcha option?
17:18:22 <nirik> ciupicri: I don't think that will work.
17:18:30 <PauseBazinga> the captcha wouldn't quite provide the same functionality
17:18:35 <nirik> ciupicri: how can the bot see a ticket when it's not yet filed?
17:18:40 <PauseBazinga> you can still hit-and-run a captcha
17:18:51 <nirik> and how can it ack it ? (note that the bot and trac instance do not run at all on the same machines)
17:19:36 <ciupicri> nirik, the ticket enters in an unconfirmed/possible spam state or something and after its confirmation, it enters into a normal state
17:19:43 <nirik> there may be a trac captcha plugin, not sure.
17:20:03 <nirik> ciupicri: I don't think trac has any such state, but you could ask upstream trac developers.
17:20:11 <ciupicri> nirik, or even better the fedbot could accept simple kudos commands
17:20:32 <ciupicri> something like @fedora kudos +1 nirik
17:20:33 <nirik> yeah, that should be quite possible in a while...
17:20:51 <ciupicri> or @fedora kudos +1 nirik He helped me with email...
17:21:10 <nirik> there's a karma plugin. Once we update the bot we should be able to have that available.
17:21:12 <thomasj> IIRC one of the reasons was as well to prevent people just spit out that $nick sucks bigtime or like that. People who just want to spit that out don't want to register. Normally.
17:21:37 * thomasj can't recall all the reasons.
17:21:38 <ciupicri> thomasj, we could limit the rate of this stuff
17:22:05 <thomasj> ciupicri, how?
17:22:14 <ciupicri> thomasj, e.g. one kudo command per nick per hour
17:23:18 <nirik> sure, it's all a matter of code. ;)
17:23:35 <ciupicri> nirik, the code of the matrix? :-)
17:24:03 <nirik> anyhow, lets all think on it and come up with concrete ideas... ?
17:24:09 <PauseBazinga> sounds like an entry in the FAQ titled, "Why do I have to register with Freenode to get support from #fedora?" would do well to explain the situation to the uninformed and also remind us what we came up with in future meetings when it gets brought up again.
17:24:15 * thomasj will re-think about the plus and minus of the registration, and try to find the log
17:24:36 * Sonar_Gal sneaks in late
17:24:44 * thomasj waves at Sonar_Gal
17:25:12 <nirik> welcome Sonar_Gal
17:25:36 <ciupicri> thomasj, when you mention registration you're making me think about my brother who does not want to register even to report a bug to bugzilla from abrtd
17:25:59 <thomasj> Yeah, some people don't like that.
17:26:00 <ciupicri> thomasj, he starts saying stuff like why should I register and so on...
17:26:22 <thomasj> ciupicri, so we're able to contact him
17:26:31 <thomasj> ciupicri, bugzilla isn't a one-way thing :)
17:26:56 <ciupicri> indeed, but even an incomplete bug report might be better than no bug report at all
17:26:59 <thomasj> Often enough we need to ask the reporter for more information :)
17:27:03 <thomasj> no
17:27:17 <nirik> it can be worse.
17:27:18 <nirik> :)
17:27:26 <PauseBazinga> incomplete bug report sounds annoying
17:27:26 <thomasj> yeah, sure
17:27:27 <ciupicri> that's why I've said _might_ :-)
17:27:40 <nirik> yeah, you never know...
17:27:54 <nirik> even abrt reports often the reporter never replies...
17:28:04 <nirik> but I guess we are drifting off topic. ;)
17:28:06 <thomasj> Especially abrt reports :)
17:28:22 <nirik> Anyone have anything else for open floor? or shall we close out the meeting this week?
17:28:35 <ciupicri> anyway regarding those kudos, what about openid based login?
17:28:43 <thomasj> good idea
17:28:45 <ciupicri> like the stackexchange sites?
17:29:18 <thomasj> openid is used a lot. good idea
17:29:37 <thomasj> The question is, does trac supports that
17:29:52 * thomasj is not able to code that in. Not yet.
17:29:59 <ciupicri> are we limited to trac or is trac preferable?
17:30:25 <thomasj> Well, more preferable.
17:30:28 <ciupicri> http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4722
17:30:37 <nirik> we currently have a trac at fedorahosted.
17:30:41 <nirik> it's an old trac version there.
17:31:19 <thomasj> closed enhancement: wontfix     yay
17:31:20 <ciupicri> yeah, so old that the web based version control browser crashes if you use a data from the far future :-)
17:32:18 <nirik> again, I am open to the idea of having feedback more open, but I think it needs an actual plan before we can really see if we want to implement it.
17:32:23 <PauseBazinga> " authopenid-plugin seems to be working and maintained, so I'm closing this ticket."
17:32:46 <PauseBazinga> that was the closer's comment
17:33:12 <thomasj> I'm for, lets check the openid idea and review the topic next week.
17:33:14 <ciupicri> and the latest change from that plugin is dated 2011-04-16
17:33:33 <nirik> I don't see that packaged in fedora/epel off hand.
17:33:43 <nirik> unless it's in the base trac package.
17:34:18 <ciupicri> nirik, couldn't we package it?
17:34:25 <nirik> sure.
17:34:33 <nirik> well, provided it's free, etc.
17:34:37 <thomasj> Proposal: check out the openid idea (if possible with trac) and review next week.
17:34:52 <ciupicri> +1 for thomasj's proposal
17:35:04 <PauseBazinga> what's the trac version currently?
17:35:31 <PauseBazinga> looks like there was a patch released three days ago to support trac .12
17:35:32 <nirik> 0.10.5
17:35:39 <ciupicri> nirik, license='Trac license'
17:35:52 <nirik> plans are ongoing to move to 0.12, but it will not be quick
17:36:06 <ciupicri> nirik, what about python-openid>=2.1.0 ?
17:36:31 <nirik> no idea. does that work with trac? I don't have any idea
17:37:43 <ciupicri> Version:        2.1.1 is in EPEL5
17:38:27 <nirik> ciupicri: perhaps you could investigate and get back to us if it will help any?
17:39:09 <ciupicri> nirik, I think so. I don't have any experience with trac except as a casual user.
17:39:34 <thomasj> ciupicri, i'm happy to help you with that.
17:39:51 * nirik could try, but it would not be high on my priority list. ;)
17:40:50 <nirik> ok, if nothing else, lets close out and revisit next week.
17:40:53 <thomasj> ciupicri, probably stay in touch via email.. thomasj@fedoraproject.org   Mail me and i send you back what i have at Sunday evening (europe timezone).
17:41:10 <nirik> thanks thomasj / ciupicri
17:41:18 <thomasj> np
17:41:28 <ciupicri> thomasj, ok
17:41:46 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone!
17:41:52 <nirik> #endmeeting