15:00:47 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:00:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May  9 15:00:47 2011 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:51 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa-meeting
15:00:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa-meeting'
15:00:56 <jlaska> #topic Roll Call ...
15:01:01 * tflink is here
15:01:05 <jlaska> Hi folks ... let's get this party started
15:01:30 * StylusEater_work is here
15:01:31 <jlaska> wave your electronic hands so we know who is here
15:01:33 <adamw> yo
15:01:44 <jlaska> tflink, StylusEater_work, adamw: greetings
15:01:51 * the_hydra is newcomer...willing to learn
15:01:58 <jlaska> regrets for brunowolff ... we'll catch up with him later
15:01:59 * kparal is here
15:02:02 * fenrus02 waves bacon around to share
15:02:04 <jlaska> welcome the_hydra and kparal :)
15:02:34 * vhumpa say hey there
15:02:43 <jlaska> greetings vhumpa
15:02:44 <rbergeron> woop woop
15:02:49 <vhumpa> ^^^ says :-)
15:02:54 * jskladan lurks
15:02:59 <rbergeron> wave your hands in the aiiiiiir and grab some baaaaaconnnnnn
15:03:01 <jlaska> jskladan: rbergeron: hi folks
15:03:06 <jlaska> oh, bacon, where?
15:03:09 * StylusEater_work snags some bacon
15:03:11 <adamw> then what do we do with the bacon?
15:03:13 <jlaska> robatino: Viking-Ice?  who else are we missing?
15:03:20 * robatino here
15:03:49 <jlaska> alright ... I think we are "critically massy" now
15:03:52 <rbergeron> adamw: insert bacon in mouth
15:03:56 <rbergeron> then enjoy
15:04:06 <jlaska> rbergeron: can you create a wiki test case for that please?
15:04:07 <jlaska> :
15:04:07 <jlaska> :)
15:04:16 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:04:34 <jlaska> I had only 1 item on my list from last week
15:04:37 <jlaska> #info tflink to follow-up with cloud sig for test day recap
15:04:48 <jlaska> I think this is stalled because a lot of folks were out @ summit last week?
15:05:00 <jlaska> tflink: any news/updates ... anything I can help with on this one?
15:05:32 <tflink> I heard back from mgoldmann and while he was busy @ summit/JBW last week, he's planning to send out a recap this week
15:06:24 <jlaska> eggsellent, thanks for the update.  Let's keep this on the list for next week
15:06:26 <rbergeron> i think he literally just got back yesterday
15:06:35 <jlaska> and his arms are probably tired!
15:06:39 <jlaska> hey-yoooo!
15:06:51 <jlaska> you see, after he just flew in from. ... oh nm
15:07:02 <jlaska> anything else from last week that I failed to capture in the minutes?
15:07:24 <adamw> i'm still recovering from that last joke
15:07:39 <jlaska> haha, be sure to tip your waiter
15:07:55 <jlaska> alright ... let's dive into the main course ...
15:08:00 <jlaska> #topic F-15-Final-RC1 status
15:08:21 <jlaska> So, really this should be F-15-Final-TC1 status, but since the RC1 is slated for composition for rel-eng starting today ... I changed it
15:08:36 <jlaska> We aren't expecting delivery of F-15-Final-RC1 until Wednesday
15:08:47 <jlaska> this gives rel-eng time to work through any late-breaking compose issues
15:09:01 <jlaska> #link https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4697
15:09:15 <jlaska> I just added a slew up updates to that ticket that I believe we need rel-eng to include in RC1
15:09:19 <adamw> we also have open blockers, right>
15:09:23 <jlaska> you got it!
15:09:36 <jlaska> if you don't mind, we'll walk through those in a moment (hopefully quickly)
15:09:44 <jlaska> #info Continue to monitor for blocker bugs at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Current_Release_Blockers
15:09:59 <jlaska> looks like robatino continues to rock ...
15:10:07 <jlaska> #info Robatino prepared wiki pages for RC1 test tracking (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Fedora_15_Final_RC_Test_Results)
15:10:26 <jlaska> I guess depending on when RC1 lands, either robatino or rhe will handle blasting the test announcement?
15:11:09 <robatino> i can assuming i'm around
15:11:13 <jlaska> adamw: tflink: rbergeron: btw ... thanks for processing the bugs during the blocker review last Friday ... looks like some good progress was made
15:11:25 * rbergeron points at everyone else and takes absolutely no credit
15:11:49 <jlaska> robatino: thank you ... and I'm sure rhe will happily grab that if it lands during her daytime
15:12:00 <jlaska> alright ... who likes bugs?
15:12:15 <jlaska> good, good ... now who likes quickly reviewing bugs?
15:12:19 * jlaska raises hand
15:12:38 * tflink likes bug reviews to be done :)
15:12:47 <adamw> still tired...see...because of his arms...
15:12:53 <tflink> not so much on the doing part
15:12:55 <jlaska> heck yeah!  Can you believe that's almost here :)
15:13:03 <jlaska> adamw: LOL!
15:13:14 <jlaska> adamw: get it, get it?
15:13:23 * adamw drools from one side of his mouth
15:13:27 <jlaska> alright ... so there are 2 AcceptedBlocker bugs that are still OPEN
15:13:36 * rbergeron adds a piece of bacon to block the drool
15:13:39 <jlaska> I'll take gnome-menus for $1000 please ...
15:13:55 <jlaska> #info bug#697834 - gnome-menus - Other menu appears in default installation (any .desktop entry with Category=Settings ends up here (even if there's also Category=System))
15:14:11 <adamw> ...sigh.
15:14:26 <jlaska> so it seems that mclasen is proposing that we drop the 'Other' menu criteria for F15?
15:14:45 <jlaska> or is there something else preventing this from moving forward?
15:15:31 <rbergeron> this isn't a case of "and later we'll add the "other" menu criteria back in" is it?
15:15:47 <jlaska> For those not familiar with the blocker review format ... we are checking in on any unresolved AcceptedBlocker bugs and deciding what is needed to move them forward
15:15:58 <adamw> mclas: yes, but he's very short on reasons
15:16:02 <adamw> grr
15:16:06 <adamw> jlaska: he's very short on reasons
15:16:15 <adamw> it bugs me that they are seemingly putting their foot down on fixing this for no good reason
15:16:19 <tflink> yeah, I don't really understand the hangup either
15:16:22 <adamw> it's literally about a three-line fix in gnome-menus
15:16:37 <adamw> i guess i'll post a patch and see if that helps
15:16:45 <jlaska> ooh good approach
15:16:59 <jlaska> I was going to suggest we sync up w/ mclasen post meeting in #fedora-desktop to see if we can agree on something
15:17:22 <jlaska> in fact, let's do both
15:17:31 <jlaska> thanks adamw
15:17:39 <jlaska> anything else on this one?
15:17:53 * jlaska thinks that should help get resolution *today* on this
15:18:03 <jlaska> okay ... next up ...
15:18:14 <jlaska> #info bug#693809 - imsettings - Error message about missing input methods should be removed
15:18:35 <jlaska> I've reached out to tagoh on this one, but I don't expect a response until he's awake
15:18:55 <jlaska> I'd like to catch up w/ caillon too to see if there's anything we can do to help this along before tagoh is online
15:19:10 * jlaska open to any other suggestions
15:19:18 <jlaska> if there are none, I'll tell more jokes
15:19:35 <tflink> I don't think that there is much else that we can do
15:19:41 <tflink> at the moment, anyways
15:20:04 <jlaska> another thought, does the new stuff proposed by caillon change the intent of this bug
15:20:19 <jlaska> in other words, is this still the same issue that was AcceptedBlocker?
15:20:58 <jlaska> I'll follow-up with caillon with this q ... "Is the original reported issue resolved, but there are additional improvements that could be made?"
15:21:10 * jlaska prepares to move on ...
15:21:11 <adamw> they seem like significant issues to me
15:21:14 <jlaska> okay
15:21:25 <adamw> but they're different from the initial report
15:22:11 <jlaska> I'm willing to bet caillon understands the time crunch, and has a keen sense for what is required, vs what can be resolved later
15:22:23 <jlaska> I'll update the bz if anything surfaces that requires re-thinking the issue
15:22:42 <jlaska> adamw: seem sensible?
15:23:07 <jlaska> #info bug#702650 - plymouth - Concurrency problem when unlocking partition
15:23:29 <jlaska> Looks like kparal provided the requested plymouth.debug logs ... I think we just need input from halfline to proceed
15:23:42 <kparal> jlaska: I did, but not reproducing the bug
15:23:53 <kparal> jlaska: it just didn't manifested with plymouth.debug on
15:24:05 <jlaska> Oh, so everytime you boot with plymouth debugging, the bug doesn't reproduce?
15:24:08 <kparal> and, I don't know how to disable plymouth. no documentation whatsoever
15:24:13 <michich> plymouth.enable=0
15:24:16 <kparal> jlaska: yes
15:24:36 <kparal> michich: thanks. unfortunately it seems to be written nowhere
15:24:47 * kparal will try that asap
15:25:01 <jlaska> michich: Huh, I don't see that as a supported boot option
15:25:04 <kparal> jlaska: I'll try a few more rounds after the meeting
15:25:19 <jlaska> kparal: okay, thanks
15:25:37 <jlaska> This issue is still only proposed, not accepted
15:25:54 <adamw> see comment #6
15:26:07 <jlaska> yeah, just read
15:26:21 <jlaska> Worth a call to test@ for feedback from people with non-root encrypted partitions?
15:26:32 <jlaska> I can queue up a few installs post-meeting to test
15:26:38 <tflink> probably
15:26:41 <kparal> I think it should be pretty easy to reproduce. I did several installations
15:27:09 <kparal> I hit the bug in at least 50% of system boots on those installations
15:27:18 <jlaska> fascinating
15:27:27 <tflink> kparal: did that increase? your original report said 33%
15:27:28 <jlaska> and concerning we haven't seen this before
15:27:43 * jsmith pays closer attention
15:27:57 <kparal> tflink: yeah, I underestimated a little, not to be an alarmist :-) I also did more runs after that
15:28:01 <jlaska> anything else we can do with this issue in _this_ meeting?
15:28:13 <jlaska> sounds like we're going to continue retesting (kparal and jlaska)
15:28:19 <adamw> kparal: it'd be good to add that to the report
15:28:19 <kparal> yep
15:28:26 <adamw> (info that you hit it in several re-installs)
15:28:26 <kparal> adamw: ok
15:28:31 <jlaska> and I'll see if I can get help from halfline post-meeting
15:29:34 <jlaska> okay ... I think we are done on this topic
15:30:09 <jlaska> #action jlaska to follow-up w/ halfline on bug#702650
15:30:21 <jlaska> #action kparal + jlaska to continue testing bug#702650
15:30:57 <jlaska> #action adamw proposing patch for bug#697834
15:31:03 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA update
15:31:17 <jlaska> Okay, quite a busy week for AutoQA ... I'm still behind on autoqa-devel@ mails
15:31:34 <tflink> we aim to keep you on your toes :)
15:31:36 <jlaska> Any exciting news to share?
15:31:42 <jlaska> haha, </success> :D
15:31:45 * kparal is the man for sharing updates
15:31:58 <kparal> but just shortly, if you don't mind
15:32:03 * kparal likes short updates
15:32:14 <kparal> #info AutoQA trac milestones have been changed to reflect the new topic for 0.5.0 release - making AutoQA results more user-friendly (for package-maintainers).
15:32:22 <kparal> #link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/0.5.0
15:32:38 <kparal> #info We have held a meeting where we discussed different approaches related to 0.5.0 milestone. tflink was kind enough to create a record of it:
15:32:41 <kparal> #link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/wiki/Planning050series
15:33:12 <kparal> #info We have agreed to substantially lower the number of emails that are currently sent to package maintainers through Bodhi comments. We will also improve the structure and contents of the test log - it will be specific to a particular update, it won't contain many other updates any more. Every test will be documented on Fedora wiki and the most information will be provided there.
15:33:57 <kparal> of course, if you have some related proposals, don't be afraid to talk to us at autoqa-devel mailing list
15:34:22 <kparal> and one more thing from the last week:
15:34:24 <kparal> #info We have tackled a problem with too low disk space on AutoQA server that resulted in massive deletion of very recent logs. And we will continue to work on it. The problem was caused by some stuck-in-a-loop tests that generated many GBs of test logs.
15:35:04 <kparal> ok, that's all I have in my notes. did I forget anything?
15:35:23 <tflink> nothing that's coming to mind ATM
15:36:11 <jlaska> Regarding the disk space ... we briefly discussed on #fedora-qa earlier that it looks like the corrected tmpwatch command-line used by cron, and the log compression script are working nicely
15:36:26 <jlaska> Looks like our scrambling paid off so far
15:36:44 <jlaska> oh, and extra kudos for smooge for helping us get more disk space
15:36:44 <tflink> jlaska: do you know how many multi-GB log files we've had since thursday?
15:37:12 <tflink> jlaska: on second thought, that is a better conversation for not here
15:37:35 <jlaska> tflink: okay
15:37:36 <kparal> jlaska: ah, I mixed it up a little. yes, the second problem was bug in tmpwatch
15:37:58 <jlaska> tflink: I'm looking for any bug reports against RHEL5 tmpwatch ... if not, I'll log something (or check upstream changelogs)
15:38:18 <jlaska> kparal: thanks for the updates ... if nothing else, we'll move on to the Open Mic portion
15:38:25 <kparal> that's all
15:38:47 * jlaska hoping for another productive AutoQA week ... in the face of RC1
15:38:58 * jlaska gives RC1 the evil eye
15:39:19 <jlaska> okay, I lied ... let's do a quick look at the QA calendar
15:39:23 <jlaska> #topic Upcoming QA events
15:39:33 <jlaska> #info Wednesday, May 11 - Final Candidate testing starts
15:39:40 <jlaska> #info Tuesday, May 17 - Go/NoGo meeting
15:40:01 <jlaska> #info Tuesday, May 24 - Final (GA) release
15:40:17 <robatino> would like to be sure that the compose is scheduled for the 11th - in the bugzappers meeting it was stated it would be the 10th
15:41:04 <jlaska> robatino: I think we give rel-eng a window to get things lined up ... by Wednesday
15:41:23 <jlaska> I think that gives dgilmore a chance to start composing nwo to work out any compose-related problems ahead of time
15:41:46 <jlaska> and once the proposed and accepted blocker list is cleared ... I think we can green light the RC1 compose
15:41:47 * rbergeron wonders if the schedule was confusing to someone or if something is wrong or if someone just read something incorrectly.. ?
15:41:54 <adamw> did it change?
15:42:14 <rbergeron> it shouldn't have
15:42:48 <rbergeron> maybe there's confusion about when it starts and when it is delivered
15:43:03 <robatino> in the past the scheduled date for the compose has always been the same as the testing start date
15:43:04 <jlaska> adamw: I've tried to accumulate a list of NTH and other important bodhi updates needed for RC1, but I don't know if I'm following the same process you've done in the past
15:43:31 <robatino> so when it was stated in the bugzappers meeting that it would be on the 10th, i was confused since the schedule says that testing starts on the 11th
15:43:33 <adamw> if you're looking at updates submitted for nth, yes.
15:43:49 <adamw> 'other important' updates worries me, though. the whole point of nth is there should be no 'other important' updates.
15:43:58 <adamw> anything you want to get in compose after freeze, should go through nth or blocker process.
15:44:03 <jlaska> adamw: yup ... they should be NTH ... but no bugs were filed for each of them
15:44:12 <adamw> then we should file bugs and jump through the hoops
15:44:16 <jlaska> adamw: I don't want to bypass the process, so I ... yes :)
15:44:24 <adamw> otherwise we're back to arbitrary freeze breaks and there's no point having a process
15:44:29 <adamw> okay :)
15:44:30 <jlaska> agreed
15:44:48 <adamw> but, i see only two bugs on the 'proposed NTH' list
15:44:51 <adamw> (which we should probably review)
15:45:01 <jlaska> good call
15:45:16 <jlaska> I'll save that for open discussion in a sec ...
15:45:24 <jlaska> Anything else related to upcoming schedule?
15:45:29 <rbergeron> robatino: so the compose is scheduled to take a full day - which is why testing doesn't start till the next day - i'll go back and see if that was changed at some point or alternately if I broke something at some point (though I don't remember touching this)
15:46:29 <jlaska> okay, moving on then ...
15:46:41 <jlaska> #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>
15:46:59 <jlaska> Adam reminded me that we have 2 proposed NTH bugs on the list for review ... if no other discussion topics, I'll dive into that
15:47:07 <adamw> i'm hoping there'll be three in a minute
15:47:18 <adamw> as there's a sugar update we want in but no bug filed for the issues it fixes yet...
15:47:18 <jlaska> adamw: btw ... these other bugs I listed are all clones of 699198 (just against different services)
15:47:51 <jlaska> it's the same deal ... there are updates that resolve the problems, but no bugs yet ... I'll get those filed post-meeting
15:48:23 <adamw> are they all caused by the rpm trigger issue?
15:48:29 <jlaska> #action jlaska - file proposed NTH bugs for F14->F15
15:48:40 <jlaska> adamw: it's the same end-result ... some have different fixes
15:48:54 <jlaska> a default enabled service in F14, isn't enabled post-F15 upgrade
15:49:31 <jlaska> #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=674321
15:49:35 <jlaska> #info exo shouldn't take x-scheme-handler/file mimetype
15:49:36 <adamw> okay, but different causes.
15:49:40 <jlaska> adamw: yup
15:49:46 <adamw> these are both Xfce 'blocker' bugs
15:49:58 <jlaska> some are incorrect package deps etc.. etc... I'll get them on the list and we can review post-meeting
15:50:04 <nirik> this causes problems with people with Xfce + other desktop they use.
15:50:14 * jlaska reminds our listeners about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_nth_bug_process
15:50:16 <nirik> they get exo handling links in gnome and such.
15:50:28 <jlaska> by definition, non-default desktop issues are automatic NTH bugs
15:50:34 <jlaska> "bugs which constitute infringements of the desktop-related Fedora_Release_Criteria as applied to non-default desktops "
15:50:40 <jlaska> +1 NTH
15:50:57 <jlaska> ack/nak/patch?
15:51:20 <adamw> ack
15:51:40 * nirik nods.
15:51:47 <tflink> ack
15:52:00 * adamw will secretary-ize
15:52:10 <jlaska> #agreed 674321 - AcceptedNTH - impacts desktop criteria for non-default desktop
15:52:13 <jlaska> adamw: thx
15:52:22 <jlaska> #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=694900
15:52:25 <jlaska> #info Missing icon in xfce4-panel 'Add new items' dialog
15:53:07 <tflink> isn't that blocking the wrong bug?
15:53:09 <jlaska> hmm, this seems border-line ... I'm not sure if our desktop criteria require that *all* menus have icons
15:53:14 <tflink> nvm
15:53:44 <jlaska> but either way, given this is for a non-default desktop ... this seems fitting for NTH
15:53:50 <adamw> jlaska: borderline for the blocker criteria, but i'm happy taking it as nth as an obvious polish issue
15:54:06 <adamw> so +1 nth
15:54:06 <tflink> and a fix is available
15:54:11 <tflink> +1 nth
15:54:13 <jlaska> oh, I didn't think borderline for blocker at all
15:54:14 <jlaska> +1 nth
15:54:24 <jlaska> okay, I think we have enough NTH votes ...
15:54:27 <adamw> yup
15:54:45 <jlaska> #agreed 694900 - AcceptedNTH - obvious polish issue for non-default desktop
15:54:51 <adamw> the sugar thing is a bit complex as the update doesn't specify exactly what triggers the bugs in question, so i'm having trouble filing 'retroactive' bugs for it...i'll do it later and ping you folks
15:55:01 <jlaska> btw ... anyone can vote on these issues
15:55:17 <tflink> jlaska, adamw: who's doing the bz updates?
15:55:19 <adamw> jlaska: do you have bugs ready for the initscript issues?
15:55:24 <adamw> tflink: i am,
15:55:24 <jlaska> tflink: adamw is
15:55:27 <jlaska> adamw: no I don't
15:55:32 <jlaska> adamw: that's going to take a bit :)
15:55:39 <jlaska> #chair adamw
15:55:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw jlaska
15:55:48 <jlaska> adamw: can you #topic your sugar bug?
15:58:01 <jlaska> stand-by ....
15:58:50 <Viking-Ice> drops in late
15:59:08 <jlaska> okay, if no other bugs then ... let's close this out and continue on #fedora-qa
15:59:23 <jlaska> #topic Open Discussion - Last call
15:59:24 <brunowolff> I just got back if you did have something for me. I am just starting to catch up on the log.
15:59:34 <jlaska> Welcome Viking-Ice and brunowolff
15:59:36 <adamw> jlaska: i don't want to do sugar yet, see above
15:59:50 <jlaska> adamw: ah, sounds like you're in the same boat as me :)
15:59:52 <jlaska> welcome
16:00:13 <jlaska> okay, I'll #endmeeting in 1 minute unless there are any topics
16:00:59 <jlaska> 15 seconds until #endmeeting ...
16:01:14 <jlaska> Thank you for your time ... I'll follow-up to the list with minutes
16:01:17 <jlaska> #endmeeting