17:01:59 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #startmeeting
17:01:59 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 26 17:01:59 2011 UTC.  The chair is EvilBob-Vote4Me. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:59 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:59 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #meetingname irc-support-sig
17:01:59 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
17:01:59 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #meetingtopic IRC Support SIG Meeting
17:02:25 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Give people a few minutes to roll in
17:02:40 * nirik waves.
17:02:51 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Sorry I was a little late was doing some housekeeping that we forgot last week
17:02:51 * DiscordianUK 
17:02:51 * mock continues to nom bacon
17:03:18 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> I'll get started about 5 after the hour
17:03:20 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in the "Open Floor" section of the meeting.
17:03:40 * mock feels free
17:03:52 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> mock: Going commando today?
17:04:08 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> ;)
17:04:10 <Southern_Gentlem> wearing a kilt
17:04:27 <mock> er, not that kind of free
17:04:36 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> lol
17:04:37 <Khaytsus> Aye, you don't want to get your bag and your pipes mixed up, laddy
17:04:42 * nirik has a topic.
17:04:49 * Sonar_Gal 
17:04:51 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> nirik: Bacon?
17:05:00 * mock is glad for nirik has-ing a topic
17:05:04 <nirik> bacon is always on topic. ;)
17:05:12 <mock> nirik: +1
17:05:16 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> OK
17:05:17 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #topic Week in Review
17:05:17 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #link http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:05:34 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Ya'ay, new release week
17:05:49 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Lots of "Where can I get my non-free drivers"
17:05:55 <nirik> pretty busy.
17:06:11 <DiscordianUK> release week, so initial feeding frenzy now lots about drivers, office changing name, gnome3
17:06:48 <nirik> I'd like to remind helpers to ask people to try the free video drivers.
17:06:58 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> FInally am running it here, sorting out my personal issues with the GNOME Shell
17:07:05 <nirik> lots of people seem to rush to the non free ones when there is no longer any need.
17:07:05 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> nirik: +1
17:07:24 <DiscordianUK> and lots of folk who know better how Fedora 15/gnome 3 should have been
17:08:04 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Second Guessing and Arm Chair Quarterbacking is to be expected with any big change
17:08:05 * DiscordianUK finally has gnome 3 running in a VM now
17:08:16 * dcr226 is late
17:08:18 <DiscordianUK> Yeah I guess so
17:08:26 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Any other tips?
17:08:42 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> the GNOME Shell Cheat Sheet
17:08:46 <nirik> lots of people asking about rpmfusion stable for f15.
17:08:56 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> the gnome-tweak-tool
17:08:58 <nirik> EvilBob-Vote4Me: Take a look at https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet and install 'gnome-tweak-tool' and see if they provide the feature or item you are looking for.
17:09:07 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> nirik: thanks
17:09:38 <DiscordianUK> Pre release the @f15release macro was getting hammered
17:10:10 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> DiscordianUK: Yeah, I think we need to discuss that again before the F16 release
17:10:23 <DiscordianUK> +1
17:10:28 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> some people insist on hitting it every time the enter the channel
17:10:33 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> they
17:10:34 <Khaytsus> Probably make it a botop command
17:10:38 * nirik shrugs. Yeah, but it wasn't too bad I don't think...
17:10:43 <nirik> open to changing it tho
17:10:54 <Khaytsus> nirik: It wasn't a huge deal, just a little annoying :)
17:11:00 <DiscordianUK> You see the same thing on centos and the @centos6 macro
17:11:04 <Sysi> would people look it if it was at the topic?
17:11:08 <Khaytsus> Sysi: No.
17:11:15 <DiscordianUK> People don't read topics
17:11:15 <Khaytsus> But that's where it'd be.
17:11:16 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Sysi: Historically no
17:11:38 <Southern_Gentlem> Sysi,  we have seen over the years that no one reads the topic
17:11:50 <Sysi> ubuntu has -release-party for pre-release bashing
17:11:52 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> s/the\ topic//
17:12:06 <Sysi> but it's a lot worse there
17:12:20 <nirik> we have #fedora-social for release party.
17:12:27 <DiscordianUK> The bot could message users on entry with a few short messages
17:12:32 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> OK any other items that belong here in the weekly review?
17:12:56 <mock> alias f16release /topic
17:13:16 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Hearing crickets...
17:13:17 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #topic Feedback Tickets
17:13:17 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
17:13:48 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> We have one open ticket, congrats to fenrus
17:14:04 <DiscordianUK> well done
17:14:08 <nirik> kudos
17:14:43 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Can we change the "resolution" options at all?
17:14:54 <nirik> not sure.
17:15:02 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> They don't really fit what we do
17:15:03 * nirik looks
17:15:53 <nirik> nope.
17:15:59 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Bummer
17:16:04 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> OK moving on
17:16:04 <daMaestro> we can.
17:16:05 <nirik> when hosted gets upgraded to the new trac we might be able to
17:16:10 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> daMaestro: ?
17:16:13 <nirik> daMaestro: oh? do tell
17:16:24 <daMaestro> It's a code patch.
17:16:29 <daMaestro> We've done it here internally.
17:16:54 <daMaestro> I might be able to refactor to make it a plugin. Just need to know what trac version to target.
17:16:55 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> OK, probably something that would have to go though infrastructure
17:16:57 <nirik> to which version?
17:17:11 <nirik> yes. Ideally it would just get added to the epel trac package for all to enjoy. ;)
17:17:15 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> And in that case we can take it out of band
17:17:24 * nirik nods
17:17:27 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #topic Open Floor
17:17:27 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Does anyone have anything to add?
17:17:49 <nirik> I had one item to bring up.
17:17:51 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Open Floor, nirik did you have something
17:17:56 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Bring it!
17:18:17 <nirik> There's some folks working on a 'welcome sig'. I think we should reach out and see if we can help them, or at least not hinder them. ;)
17:18:20 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Welcome_SIG
17:18:41 <nirik> it's early days, but I wanted to mention it.
17:18:53 <nirik> for new folks coming in from other distros or new to linux in general.
17:19:02 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Good idea to help out there I think
17:19:21 <GeneralAccident> cool idea
17:19:28 <nirik> our 'migration guide' type stuff could better be done there perhaps.
17:19:28 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> If it turns in to another support venue complete with spoon feeding... Not so sure
17:19:31 <Sysi> i was assigned to write doc about "new to fedora / newcomers from ubuntu" but i haven't been able to register to fs.o (haven't checked email after noting -unity)
17:19:39 <DiscordianUK> I don't think it's an end user channel
17:19:40 * GeneralAccident notes this nick is in use, because my bouncer sux
17:19:58 <nirik> it's not really much yet. ;)
17:19:59 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Sysi: Yeah, not sure if daMaestro has had a chance to look
17:20:10 <DiscordianUK> It's about welcoming folks to fedora more generally
17:20:20 <nirik> thats all. Wanted to note it and point people to help who wished to.
17:20:38 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> I have an item...
17:20:42 <DiscordianUK> yeah kudos to them
17:20:50 <GeneralAccident> and me, when you are done EvilBob-Vote4Me
17:20:52 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> We have two chronic offenders that we all know
17:20:56 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  i will try, 2 people on there list i have problems with
17:21:13 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> They were unbanned and... well they have not changed
17:21:22 <DiscordianUK> indeed
17:21:42 <Southern_Gentlem> so follow the SOP and ban them
17:21:48 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> I see no reason to keep them around, they are rude, nasty, disruptive and more
17:22:11 <nirik> personally I think we should follow our normal process... I know it's a pain to go thru longer and longer bans, but if they are disruptive, it shouldn't be hard.
17:22:19 <jonez> I have something to bring up.
17:22:37 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> That's all I have on it, GeneralAccident you are next
17:23:07 <GeneralAccident> EvilBob-Vote4Me, we going to vote on those 2 people? or just note it?
17:23:24 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> GeneralAccident: We will havup with them it looks likee to put
17:23:35 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> have to put up
17:23:45 <GeneralAccident> mine was about the DD usb thing, didn't know if I should bring it up; I forgot at week-in-review
17:23:48 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Wow, that got all screwed up
17:23:58 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> GeneralAccident: We will have to put up with them it looks like
17:24:05 <GeneralAccident> yeah, sadly I couldn't *grab that one ;-)
17:24:22 <Southern_Gentlem> jonez,  hang on
17:24:24 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Surf's Up
17:24:28 <Khaytsus> EvilBob-Vote4Me: If they keep it up and they're disruptive, throw 'em overboard.  But not "just because" right now.
17:24:28 <DiscordianUK> errk netsplit
17:24:30 <GeneralAccident> that'll be why my bouncer sux then
17:25:12 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> GeneralAccident: does not look like any of us were involved, go ahead with our discovery
17:25:13 <zcat> fenrus02++   (disconnected)
17:25:21 <GeneralAccident> so anyway - the Fedora 15 DVD iso is not a hybrid iso, and won't work on certain machines that expect it to be a hdd format
17:25:40 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> GeneralAccident: When put on a USB device
17:25:42 <GeneralAccident> which is why dd'ing it to a usb stick is failing often
17:25:56 * nirik notes this will hopefully be fixed for f16.
17:25:57 <Khaytsus> I didn't know we could ever DD the install media to a thumb drive?  Is that a new function?
17:26:03 <GeneralAccident> yeah, when its expected to behave like a conventional disk, it wont
17:26:11 <GeneralAccident> Khaytsus, it should do yeah...here's the workaround
17:26:17 <GeneralAccident> nirik, yeah was gonna mention that bit :-)
17:26:26 <Khaytsus> Is that new though?  Last I recall it wasn't expected to work.
17:26:41 <nirik> I thought it was added, but it wasn't ever. ;)
17:26:49 <nirik> so, it probibly never worked.
17:27:01 <Sysi> does the dvd then work with unetbootin or something? (live hasn't worked for me)
17:27:02 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> I have used USB somehow in the past
17:27:16 <GeneralAccident> well, its regularly touted in the channel as being hybrid..and the install guide talks about dd
17:27:23 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> and as you all know I don't use LiveCDs for installs
17:27:34 <Khaytsus> Sure, you can use USB.  You gotta use livecdiso tools and copy the iso to the thumb drive to use for media.  There's a process.  Taht's last I know.
17:27:36 <nirik> all live media and boot.iso are hybrid
17:27:43 <Southern_Gentlem> Sysi,  i have never gotten a good image from unetbootin
17:27:46 <nirik> install is not, but should be fixed.
17:27:49 <nirik> (in f16)
17:27:49 <GeneralAccident> so if you install syslinux and run "isohybrid F15.iso" , you can then dd it to the usb thumb
17:28:01 <Khaytsus> GeneralAccident: Oh, neat.  Just that?
17:28:16 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> GeneralAccident: that whole section of the IG needs work I think, if someone wants to work with docs to improve it I think it would be a good idea
17:28:20 * zcat used the new Multi-Live to install. used livecd-iso-to-disk to partially put it on usb
17:28:26 <GeneralAccident> Khaytsus, yeah..."hybrid" isos just have grub stage1 in the first 512 bytes, CD iso's have zeros
17:28:33 <Khaytsus> GeneralAccident: Well that's easy
17:28:39 <Southern_Gentlem> GeneralAccident,  get this documented please
17:28:42 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Khaytsus: Yeah super easy
17:28:48 <DiscordianUK> Interesting
17:28:58 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Southern_Gentlem: It's been mentioned to docs, it's in their court
17:29:24 <Southern_Gentlem> EvilBob-Vote4Me,  they are not on the front lines dealing with this
17:29:31 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> OK, jonez
17:29:50 <GeneralAccident> Southern_Gentlem, I'll perhaps do a quick how-to on fs.o or something and pass out the link
17:29:55 <Khaytsus> Can just anyone edit F15 Common Issues?
17:30:03 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Khaytsus: I believe so
17:30:04 <GeneralAccident> yeah
17:30:07 <Khaytsus> Maybe there?
17:30:15 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> GeneralAccident: Perfect place for it
17:30:21 <GeneralAccident> EvilBob-Vote4Me, common issues?
17:30:22 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> I forget that it exists
17:30:28 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> GeneralAccident: Yeah
17:30:28 * Khaytsus points to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/15/FeatureList
17:30:34 <Khaytsus> erm...  drat..
17:30:38 <GeneralAccident> ok, I'll do that shortly
17:31:06 <Khaytsus> Oh, heh, my links are old. have common12 and common13.. ahem..  anywho.
17:31:53 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> jonez: last call?
17:33:06 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> jonez: Catch us on the mailing list, trac or next week?
17:33:14 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Going once
17:33:25 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Going twice
17:33:30 <Khaytsus> SOLD!
17:33:34 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Bacon!
17:33:50 <GeneralAccident> don't forget botday on the first
17:33:56 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Thanks for being here
17:34:06 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Bot Day on the first in -social
17:34:09 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> #endmeeting