14:02:48 #startmeeting FAmSCo 2011-07-02 14:02:49 Meeting started Sat Jul 2 14:02:48 2011 UTC. The chair is liknus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:02:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:02:54 #meetingname famsco 14:02:54 The meeting name has been set to 'famsco' 14:02:58 #topic RollCall 14:03:01 .fas ppapadeas 14:03:02 liknus: ppapadeas 'Papadeas Pierros' 14:03:06 .fas igorps 14:03:06 igorps: igor 'Igor Pires Soares' 14:03:08 .fas gbraad 14:03:10 gbraad-china: gbraad 'Gerard Braad (吉拉德)' 14:03:15 Agenda for today: 14:03:16 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda 14:03:16 .fasinfo jsmith 14:03:17 jsmith: User: jsmith, Name: Jared Smith, email: jsmith.fedora@gmail.com, Creation: 2007-05-15, IRC Nick: jsmith, Timezone: US/Eastern, Locale: en, Extension: 5101642, GPG key ID: 8B670B7A, Status: active 14:03:21 jsmith: Approved Groups: cmswriters cla_fpca cmseditors @accounts cla_fedora cla_done docs sysadmin sysadmin-tools docs-writers ambassadors irc-support-operators @elections 14:03:35 .fasinfo gomix 14:03:36 gomix: User: gomix, Name: Guillermo Gómez, email: guillermo.gomez@gmail.com, Creation: 2006-05-13, IRC Nick: gomix, Timezone: America/Caracas, Locale: en, Extension: 5100627, GPG key ID: 3205A464, Status: active 14:03:40 gomix: Approved Groups: cla_fpca gitrevista-fedora-latam cla_fedora cla_done docs ambassadors cvsl10n packager fedorabugs docs-writers docs-publishers 14:03:56 Although we do have an agenda for today, I recommend to focus on the FUDCON APAC and then move on to the regular agenda 14:03:58 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda 14:04:04 me/ oops 14:04:10 #topic FUDCon APAC Bids 14:04:13 so: 14:04:21 so far we have two really detailed bids 14:04:24 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2011 14:04:28 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:India_2011 14:05:00 I have to say that lately we really take care of having great bids and competition between the bidding teams 14:05:08 (see last FUDCon EMEA) 14:05:36 I will start by saying that whatever the recommendation of FAmSCo will be, 14:06:03 we will also recommend to have a large scale FAD on the not-selected city 14:06:10 jsmith: would that make sense? 14:06:13 +1 14:06:14 everyone ok with that? 14:06:15 liknus, +1 14:06:39 we did the same for FUDCon LATAM 14:06:50 and of course the not-selected one is in priority one for next year 14:06:52 seems fair enough to me 14:07:09 kaio on that? 14:07:14 kaio_: ping 14:07:24 kaio_: ping 14:07:26 I guess this is agreed for now 14:07:44 #agreed Not-selected city will host a large scale FAD 14:07:55 Sorry, stepped away for a second 14:07:58 * gomix can anyone make suggestions? 14:08:14 gomix of what nature? 14:08:23 I would hesitate against making the non-winning bid the priority for next year 14:08:28 about the topic being discussed 14:08:38 as the Malaysian team decided that they don't want to try for this year, but very much want to bid for next year 14:08:44 It would be unfair to penalize them for that 14:08:49 +1 14:09:01 jsmith: +1 next year will be again a head to head 14:09:16 agree, this will be a fair 'battle' 14:09:19 gomix: this is a famsco meeting... can you wait till openfloor? 14:09:24 no problem 14:09:27 thanks 14:09:36 so moving on specific things about the bids 14:09:40 but however, is the time of this slot known? I thought it was in Q1 14:10:05 gbraad: which slot? 14:10:21 for FUDCon APAC in 2012 14:10:27 gbraad, I think there were some changes on that 14:10:44 o/ 14:11:00 this is important information to discuss with possible partnerships 14:11:00 not quite sure what quarter is for witch one now 14:11:06 March 1 - May 30 14:11:07 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_events#Recurring_Premier_Fedora_Events 14:11:23 thanks jsmith 14:11:24 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_events#Recurring_Premier_Fedora_Events 14:11:35 ok shall we move on specifics of the bids? 14:11:41 please 14:11:44 I would like to start with China 14:11:58 so one major con that I see there is the venue 14:12:15 apparently the biggest room we can get is ~100 people 14:12:30 correction: this is not the case 14:12:42 sorry I am just reading the wiki 14:12:58 we specified different possible options for budgetting 14:13:09 larger rooms and smaller are available 14:13:12 so there are bigger rooms available? 14:13:18 yes 14:13:34 but the pricing on that? 14:13:53 gbraad, how big they are? 14:13:54 and also why Universities are not OK with hosting as for free? 14:13:59 slightly more, but negotiable 14:14:35 the relationship with BPUT is good, but we have not exploited this completely yet 14:15:02 and to be fair, if bidding process takes longer we loose opportunitiesto negotiate and book 14:15:15 noted 14:15:31 I guess jsmith will conclude next week 14:15:44 Yes, as early next week as possible 14:15:48 Monday is a holiday in the USA 14:15:48 igorps: auditorium size is possible. 14:16:09 now on expenses and cost (traveling etc) China is well ahead 14:16:32 I mean it is cheaper especially on bringing more people from Asia 14:17:16 what about visa and sanitary requirements? Is there anything specific? 14:17:18 I can see also that in terms of community China is still a new one 14:17:44 igorps: There's a link on the ambassadors mailing list about visa requirements 14:17:46 selecting China would mean that we go for the "potential" of community 14:17:53 igorps: (They didn't look too difficult to me) 14:17:54 VISA application for L should generally take about 3 days 14:18:04 visa would be ok with both countries 14:18:32 if invitation is needed, we can discuss this with the participant/visitor 14:18:34 on the other hand with India we have a fully fledged community with years of experience 14:18:46 I would treat that as "rewarding" the community 14:18:47 gbraad, sounds good 14:19:05 so we are facing a rewarding<>potential descision 14:19:25 (although both of them have rewarding and potential up to a point) 14:19:46 (I am just discussing on the main points) 14:20:19 Strategically speaking China seems the way to go 14:20:35 we need to establish our presence there and move forward 14:20:55 it is cheap and we have the community threashold 14:21:27 Community speaking India has done an excellent job and those guys really deserve the first APAC FUDCon after that many years of discussions 14:21:29 * gbraad is biased and will therefore witheheld from further comments 14:21:38 gbraad: thanks 14:22:03 I am just trying to be logical and objective (although I know that this is not always possible) 14:22:12 igorps: anything on those raised? 14:22:22 sounds like a decision of what focus we want to this FUDCon, fostering a incipient community or providing a good opportunity for a experienced community 14:22:50 I'm ok with both focus for FUDCons in general 14:23:00 igorps: +1 14:23:32 I believe that communities can choose to give what focus they find more appropriated for a FUDCon 14:23:54 I see that the first FUDCon in India was just a first experience 14:24:21 if we choose India, I'd like to give a suggestion 14:24:26 My biggest concern about India is lack of international flights into Pune 14:24:51 To fund someone from China to see how a FUDCon is 14:24:57 The question here sounds almost inappropriate, 'but which choice is most rewarding?' 14:24:58 jsmith: that is indeed a big concern... especially for costs 14:25:35 igorps: +1 14:25:42 igorps: +1 14:25:54 igorps: I have a good candidate I want to propose for this 14:26:11 That might be slightly harder given the budget, but either way, we should help train future FUDCon leaders :-) 14:26:30 jsmith: indeed 14:26:33 +1 14:26:34 In my opinion that would be the best way to go now 14:27:12 last week's meeting and ambassadors seem to be in favor of India 14:27:18 so given the fact that we already had an India FUDCon before, and that there are concerns on budget... I am going with China bid *but* with special attention needed on venue 14:27:20 we don't need to fund a lot of folks from China and Malaysia, but someone who can help pushing things forward for next years 14:27:56 also that should be the other way around 14:28:14 (India and Malaysia folks traveling to China) 14:28:27 liknus: we will discuss this nonetheless (regarding venue) 14:28:28 liknus, sure! 14:28:53 I am going for "potential" this time 14:29:03 Lets give China the chance to shine 14:29:23 India can have a large FAD this year and bid again with priority next year 14:29:38 (unless something extraordinary comes up) 14:30:02 gbraad: I guess you are also on the China bid :) 14:30:07 igorps: on that? 14:30:23 * gbraad refrains from commenting 14:30:39 (I guess we can also safely say that kaio_ is in favor of China bid) 14:30:54 liknus, I'm ok with having a FAD in China, with we can get a couple more K dollars than the usual for FADs 14:31:28 igorps: you mean in India? 14:31:38 liknus, yes :) 14:31:44 ok 14:31:58 yn1v: I will post the logs in private for you 14:32:06 igorps: I do believe budget should be somehow discussed for future FUDCon's. Let's see after the event how much we have spend and had difficulty to stay within budget 14:32:14 liknus, thanks 14:33:06 gbraad: I agree, but I'm not sure what there is to discuss. The budgets are fixed, and should not exceed the fixed amounts. 14:33:38 jsmith: APAC's economy has also grown a lot recently and should be considere 14:34:06 gbraad, do we have a estimate for all costs together? 14:34:41 jsmith: this is important to future events. our target for this year is clear. 15K max without sponsoring 14:34:44 gbraad: Yes, I understand that. We may re-evaluate for next year, but for this year (Red Hat's fiscal year), the budgets are set. 14:35:13 * jsmith stresses that the costs *are not to exceed* 15k USD for FUDCon APAC 14:35:29 so yn1v read them and chime in 14:35:30 while waiting for yn1v to express his opinion (and finalize FAmSCo's recommendation ) lets move to our agenda 14:35:31 jsmith: thanks for the clarification :) 14:35:39 +1 14:35:45 understood and clear 14:36:08 ok now on other topics (till yn1v is done) 14:36:16 #topic Events page 14:36:34 we have our mediawiki updated! 14:36:42 I am sad that I have to make a choice 14:36:53 liknus, cheers! 14:37:01 As I posted on mailing list I am going for Pune 14:37:08 That means that we can see our bug about css meshing with {{{hidden}}} tag 14:37:12 yn1v: so you know how I feel these days 14:37:26 I see that they can make more things for fedora in short term because they alerady have the capacity 14:37:39 Decisions are to be made gents :) 14:37:50 and I felt better with the idea of a big FAD 14:38:20 wich will be like a first step for China to a FUDCon 14:38:25 #action liknus files a bug on hidden tag 14:38:48 (ok we are done with that) lets move back to finalize FUDCon APAC recommendation 14:39:06 ok so far we have: 14:39:10 yn1v: India 14:39:16 mether: India 14:39:20 liknus: China 14:39:24 gbraad: China 14:39:27 kaio_: China 14:39:32 igorps: ? 14:39:41 India 14:39:48 hehe 14:39:53 Split right down the middle 14:39:53 ok 3/3 for FAmSCo 14:39:54 50 / 50 14:39:54 :-) 14:40:04 split the budget and have two evnts 14:40:06 jsmith: sorry we could not provide any help for that 14:40:17 liknus: No, your feedback was helpful, even if it wasn't definitive 14:40:24 * jsmith knew it would be difficult 14:40:59 Final Recommendation for FUDCon APAC from FAmSCo: 3/3 for our members we will not give a definitive one 14:41:32 I'm not doing it by the fun of the tie :) 14:41:34 Many points were raised... hope this will help jsmith and his team to decide 14:41:47 igorps: hope you are not :P 14:42:03 moving on team? 14:42:09 +1 14:42:23 jsmith: good luck on deciding the hosting city 14:42:28 as I said before, if we choose India, let's reserve some budget for folks from China and Malaysia 14:42:46 thats indeed something that we will do 14:42:53 people moving on/ 14:43:09 We still need to meet with rbergeron about the schedule 14:43:14 rbergeron: are you online? 14:43:40 #action liknus mails to rbergeron to arrange a meeting about F16 schedule 14:44:04 we know that as we approached the launch we failed on many points on the schedule 14:44:27 especially on liaison with other teams 14:44:34 thats something that we should work on 14:44:54 +1 14:44:58 I am happy to see that Design team is kickstarting an initiative to have liaisons on other teams 14:44:59 liknus, +1 14:45:12 possibly this is something that we should do too 14:45:19 +1 14:45:40 can someone draft a wiki page about that? 14:45:51 we should be more active in #fedora-ambassadors or get more direct involvement from them 14:46:02 +1 14:46:15 so we know that we have contact people on other teams and people from our team to liaison with them? 14:46:20 igorps: can you do it? 14:46:28 liknus, sure! 14:46:33 and then we should outreach for everyone to sign up for it 14:46:46 tatica: Design team is inspiring :) 14:46:51 +1 14:47:05 design is a binding glue 14:47:19 #action igorps creates a wiki page about Ambassador Liaisons with other teams 14:47:26 gbraad: hehe indeed 14:47:26 ? 14:47:28 yes 14:47:28 we should also eploit any involvement from them to visualzie the move towards F16 14:47:49 rbergeron: something like Tuesday will be ok for you? 14:48:28 Tuesday 20:00 UTC lets say 14:48:49 ok we will sort it our 14:48:51 out* 14:48:56 liknus, :P 14:49:03 yeah, i'll answer in a second. 14:49:06 #topic Town Halls 14:49:10 need to translate time :) 14:49:17 rbergeron: :P 14:49:40 yn1v: can you announce on the lists that next FAmSCo meeting will be a public one 14:49:40 ? 14:49:47 sure! 14:49:55 So to start with the open meetings once per month 14:50:05 everyone ok with that? 14:50:10 liknus, +1 14:50:11 -1 14:50:19 gbraad: ? 14:50:21 bi-weekly 14:50:35 or even more often 14:50:36 we need some time to do work on our own :) 14:50:40 liknus: that works (sorry, on irc via phone) 14:50:52 rbergeron: great I am setting it on my cal 14:50:54 thanks! 14:50:55 I understand, but the more often, the less big issues we will deal with 14:51:02 I'm afraid we won't have enough time for our own agenda if it's going to be bi-weekly 14:51:09 exactly 14:51:14 treat it as an iterative process that involves refinement 14:51:24 lets do the first one and see how the participation goes 14:52:04 liknus: can you send me a reminder to add one to my calendar? (sorry, but i'm out doing stuff and i dont want to forget) 14:52:27 rbergeron: ok will do :) 14:52:28 igorps: I also believe this is due to lack of visiblity since the survey took so long 14:53:08 igorps: but yes, most of the information is also extracted from the regional meetings 14:53:11 let's say June9th public and june 23th in another schedule a townhall ? 14:53:21 thx :) 14:53:32 yn1v: sounds good for starters 14:53:47 lets go with it and see if we need to adapt then.. 14:53:51 igorps: monthly sounds good for the moment 14:54:10 gbraad-china, let's start with that hen 14:54:13 #action yn1v announces next public FAmSCo meeting 14:54:28 * gbraad-china noticed gbraad's IPSEC tunnel dropped 14:55:14 If it is my choice I would say june23th at 20:00UTC 14:55:39 oh.. you mean move the next one so to accommodate more people? 14:55:55 that would make sense but I guess we should not bind on that from now 14:56:11 go for the regular next one and then we can reassess the situation 14:56:13 yn1v: please broadcast this publicly with specifying the same time in different timezones to be sure ;-) (or link to a page) 14:56:55 yn1v, you can use this: 14:56:58 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html 14:57:01 to make a separate one, a proper town hall monthly that will be as a aid to the public meeting 14:57:21 separated two weeksapart one from the other 14:58:12 I think we should do a public meeting first in order to see how it goes 14:59:02 igorps: +1 14:59:19 people lets go for a public next one and then see 14:59:41 yes. 15:01:28 ok moving on: 15:01:44 #topic Survey 15:01:54 yn1v: I think it is about time to wrap this up 15:02:03 liknus, +1 15:02:05 July is here and we have already ~80 answers 15:02:10 +1 15:02:20 can you wrap up and summarize the results 15:02:35 Okey, 15:02:51 then send them on the famsco list so we can discuss on them and then push them on Ambassadors list 15:02:51 everyone ok with that? 15:03:02 i will make my selection of findings and an full report 15:03:04 liknus: +1 15:03:06 liknus, +1 15:03:29 yn1v: feedback can be used for the full report for Amba-list 15:03:45 we can them look into make cross links and enhance the selection 15:04:29 of course the full report will be posted, but i think it is more usefull when people look into cross links 15:04:30 any idea when this initial report would be avail? 15:04:52 tuesday or thursday 15:05:03 Thursday sounds ok 15:05:57 For me it seems really nice (although it needs some clean up) 15:06:18 (sorry .. connection probs) 15:06:29 everyone ok with that? 15:06:37 +1 15:06:42 +1 15:06:49 ok nice :) 15:06:54 yn1v: ? 15:07:04 yes 15:07:12 yes = +1 ? 15:07:22 +1 15:07:28 ;-) 15:07:42 we also agreed that famsco tickets should be assigned directly to a credit card holder after READY FOR PAYMENT is granted by us 15:08:12 we will really love it .. (I am already loving it) so much speed :) 15:08:21 moving on people? 15:08:30 +1 15:08:38 #Chair yn1v gbraad-china igorps 15:08:38 Current chairs: gbraad-china igorps liknus yn1v 15:08:46 (just to be on the safe side) 15:08:52 ok next topic: 15:08:59 #topic Trac Tickets 15:09:08 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/195 15:09:40 Are we ok with this request ? 15:09:47 this is pretty crucial on events in EMEA 15:09:59 * igorps is reading it 15:10:43 please a summary/title of the ticket as I can not open them at the moment 15:10:44 sounds like a must to me 15:11:20 [BUDGET-REQUEST] - Replacement broken Beamer in EMEA Event Box with new LED Beamer 15:11:30 about 540 EUR 15:11:40 seems logical and it is pretty crucial 15:11:54 sounds pricey to me, but crucial 15:12:19 it is LED with 300 lumens 15:12:44 300? 15:13:15 yeap 15:13:38 http://www.mini-beamer-vergleich.de/lg-hx300g-led-projektor.html 15:14:23 seems really compact and nice 15:14:23 http://www.mediamarkt.de/angebot/projektoren 15:15:05 yeap but these are huge... we need it for the event box 15:15:44 a beamer is usually not much bigger than two power cords, but more crucial 15:16:44 weight is also a concern especially on shipping 15:17:20 I won't question it further 15:17:52 seems logical for DE price and is adequate to the specs we need 15:18:01 everyone ok with it? 15:18:02 general review comments: A small and light projector but brightness is lacking 15:18:04 gbraad-china: noted 15:18:24 I wil make a note on the budget request 15:18:36 I have seen more DLP's and they are usually more expensive than needed 15:18:38 for them to search for higher Lumens 15:19:01 rather have 2 beamers than one 'expensive' 15:20:01 according to Chinese reviews it is 270 ANSI lumens 15:20:09 I agree with gbraad-china ... we are sacrificing resources for convenience... it is really needed to be that small and light? 15:20:27 ok agreed. 15:20:42 I will comment on buying regardless of the size 15:20:50 I am not opposed, just concern. 15:20:54 same here 15:20:58 just go for the best around 500 EUR 15:21:01 seems ok? 15:21:23 and I am fully supporting purchasing one projector. 15:22:04 ok cool 15:22:05 notes 15:22:06 if a bigger one does not imply into much bigger shipping costs I'm ok with that 15:22:07 noted 15:22:08 500 euro for more lumens 15:22:23 ok changed: 15:22:24 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/195 15:22:45 everyone ok? 15:23:07 liknus, +1 15:23:11 and that brings us to open floor :) 15:23:11 can't see it now, but I trust the comment has been made according to our notes ;-) 15:23:23 #topic OpenFloor 15:23:38 yn1v, any news on ticket #178? 15:23:39 owner changed from mspevack to jsimon. 15:23:39 summary changed from [BUDGET-REQUEST] - Replacement broken Beamer in EMEA Event Box with new LED Beamer to READY FOR PAYMENT - Replacement broken Beamer in EMEA Event Box with new LED Beamer. 15:23:39 Discussed on the FAmSCo meeting. Approved, please proceed with buying... 15:23:39 Just make sure to not constrain yourself for it to be small and lightweight. Go for the best specs around 500 EUR. ANSI Lumens is of outmost importance. 15:23:52 that was the comment 15:24:36 Also there is a media ticket for Brazil: 15:24:37 liknus, thanks. DLP at 300 is nice for a sales presentation, but not a meeting/presentation in a classroom 15:24:38 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/178 15:24:38 no, I haven't get anything for 178 (media production for fisl and latinoware) 15:24:56 yn1v, maybe we should ping spevack again 15:25:06 spevack: ping 15:25:19 igorps: can you send him an email with URGENT as subject ? 15:25:30 liknus, will do that 15:25:46 igorps, please send me copy 15:25:55 ok nice 15:26:00 yn1v, ok I'll cc you 15:26:07 I shall close the meeting... anything else for now? 15:26:26 no 15:26:34 I have sothing... 15:26:41 something 15:26:42 didn't you tell tactica to wait until openfloor? 15:26:51 it was gomix 15:26:53 gomix: 15:27:04 sorry :-s 15:27:07 we said that we will award dinners... there is only one ticket saying dinner 15:28:00 should we remind about that? make a list of teams that we expect for hosting dinners? 15:28:34 * kital want to note that we already had a beamer for the last 5 years which was sponsored by ourself! 15:29:05 kital, note taken 15:29:09 kital: thanks so much for that! now we can have a fedora sponsored one :) 15:29:11 and we just wanted a LED Beamer now instead of one with a lamp 15:29:13 crucial ++ 15:29:30 * gbraad-china understand a lamp can break during shipping 15:29:31