15:00:24 #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 15:00:24 Meeting started Mon Jul 11 15:00:24 2011 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:24 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:27 #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00:27 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00:30 #topic Roll Call 15:00:48 * j_dulaney was just given free noms, and is also present in his Pirate garb 15:00:53 yo 15:00:58 * athmane is here but at $dayjob :( 15:00:58 hellooo gang 15:01:09 athmane: thanks for joining 15:01:16 * brunowolff is here 15:01:23 * tflink is here 15:01:25 * mkrizek is here 15:01:31 adamw: j_dulaney brunowolff tflink hey folks 15:01:34 * kparal waives 15:01:34 welcome back mkrizek :) 15:01:37 * j_dulaney slacked off last week, and must apologize. He was at the beach 15:02:02 Howdy kparal and jskladan 15:02:04 j_dulaney: lucky you :) 15:02:13 Indeed. 15:02:14 * rbergeron waves 15:02:16 * kparal waves again, this time correctly "0 15:02:21 * jlaska gives rbergeron the double guns 15:02:26 * rbergeron winks at jlaska 15:02:31 * jskladan tips his hat and laugs out loud to kparal's typo :) 15:02:40 heh 15:03:16 okay, anyone else we are missing? Viking-Ice or robatino? 15:03:27 * robatino here 15:03:28 * jlaska will get started in a moment (sometimes referred to as a jiffy) 15:03:32 * j_dulaney thought he saw robatino 15:03:39 Ah, never mind 15:03:44 robatino: hey there ... sorry if I missed ya 15:04:01 okay ... I sent an agenda to the list a little while ago 15:04:02 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20110711 15:04:17 there are a few 'status update' type topics to run through today 15:04:20 and of course any open discussin 15:04:26 let's get movin' 15:04:56 of course, welcome back to mkrizek, joining us for round#2 as an intern in Brno, CZ! 15:05:11 pschindler will be joining as well, but has a conflict for the meeting today 15:05:21 #topic Gnome Shell duplicate application names 15:05:31 Not sure if vhumpa lurks? 15:05:46 Didn't want this to fall off the radar, wasn't sure if vhumpa or adamw had any updates on this topic 15:06:12 iirc, there was a proposed application rename for the XFCE terminal? 15:06:26 * j_dulaney hasn't heard any updates 15:06:29 In here! 15:06:30 yeah, that's going through upstream 15:06:35 xfce-terminal ? 15:06:38 yes 15:06:43 i don't think there's any other news 15:06:52 we didn't get around to doing anything about the s-c-* names yet right vita? 15:07:13 #info Renaming of xfce-terminal application being discussed upstream 15:07:26 welcome again Vita! :) 15:08:17 E-mail asking for an approval for removing some of the duplicate system-config-* utils from the Gnomeshell overview still sits in the desktop mailing list. 15:08:22 there was some discussion about suppressing some of them from appearing in the gnome menus 15:08:25 not sure if that's going ahead 15:08:49 vhumpa: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2011-June/007338.html ? 15:09:03 Yes, that's the one 15:09:07 "would you guys agree to make the 3 duplicate system-config-* 15:09:07 utilities "NotShowIn" in GNOME? And if so, what steps should we take to 15:09:07 make this so?" 15:09:43 #info Waiting for desktop@ feedback to resolve duplicate system-config-* application names 15:10:40 is this something we think should be completed for F16? 15:10:54 there's no reason why not. 15:10:58 at least, the s-c-* bit. 15:11:13 It's really easy to do 15:11:16 anyone have suggestions for helping this move forward? 15:11:19 If there is an agreement 15:11:27 is a response to that email the blocker, or are there things we can do on the side? 15:11:59 well we could just go ahead and change it, but that might be impolite. =) 15:12:01 I don't think thats a blocker 15:12:12 +1 for adamw :) 15:12:14 it probably just requires more poking of the desktop team. they need a good regular poking. 15:12:19 heh 15:12:20 it's good for the soul. 15:12:26 on both ends I'm sure 15:12:30 Poke adamw 15:12:31 the poker and the pokee 15:12:39 unhand me, you monster! 15:12:40 TMI 15:12:53 * jlaska waves the #action tag for any volunteers 15:13:02 * jlaska holds a lollypop in other hand 15:13:05 * adamw hides behind the couch 15:13:17 * jlaska waves lollypop towards Vita 15:13:21 :) 15:13:29 Ah, I know nothing of the Desktop team ;-) 15:13:34 jk ... if no one wants it, I'll be happy to nudge 15:13:36 vhumpa: haha 15:13:39 * j_dulaney dislikes sweets. A pizza would be better incentive 15:14:01 Or cucumbers. In vast quantities 15:14:03 Some poking in the IRC might be sufficient 15:14:11 jlaska: I'll do it 15:14:23 #action j_dulaney will check-in with desktop team for guidance on s-c-* -- thank you j_dulaney!!! 15:14:26 As long as I get cucumbers 15:14:32 j_dulaney: you are a saint 15:14:47 you can have my favorite cucumber 15:14:50 he's called Mr. Pokey 15:15:06 okay ... anything else here, other than requesting a cucumber themed non-beefy miracle? 15:15:08 Ok..... 15:15:10 j_dulaney: would this work for cucumbers? http://cukes.info/ 15:15:17 heh 15:15:21 its testing related :-D 15:15:41 the fesco meeting is in about 2 hours, right? 15:15:52 okay, moving on ... 15:15:57 #topic Fedora 16 - Rawhide acceptance testing 15:16:06 twoerner: yeah 15:16:13 tflink: thx 15:16:31 adamw reminded me last week that RATS have entered the building! 15:16:46 of course, where RATs == Rawhide Acceptance Tests 15:16:57 they're eating all the cucumbers 15:16:57 #link http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-16/f-16-quality-tasks.html 15:17:01 adamw: I believe they are 15:17:24 I've spoken to Tao Wu who did a real nice job running the RATs during F15 ... he's agreed to lead this for F16 as well 15:17:40 so many thanks to twu!! 15:17:43 yay 15:18:11 I expect we'll have a combination of autoqa rats_{install,sanity} results later this week ... along with some announcements on test@lists.fedoraproject.org discussing issues/bugs etc.. 15:18:36 Grub seems to be messed up in rawhide. 15:18:40 I've also asked for Tao to think about incorporating live images into the RATs tests this release ... since we keep having alpha-blocking live related issues each Alpha release 15:19:03 That might slow things down unless it is hardware specific. 15:19:11 #info twu agreed to lead Rawhide Acceptance Tests for Fedora 16 - http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-16/f-16-quality-tasks.html 15:19:19 brunowolff: yeah it definitely might, thanks for the heads up 15:19:27 Bug 718722 15:19:29 I've been hitting some deps problems while trying to compose testable install images 15:19:33 .bug 718722 15:19:35 jlaska: Bug 718722 Mismatched or corrupt version of stage1/stage2 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=718722 15:20:03 this affect the recent grub update too 15:20:07 on f15 15:20:09 I think twu will file a ticket to get help from rel-eng creating the PXEboot+boot.iso images for test 15:20:37 When is the divergence? 15:20:39 has been un-pushed 15:20:40 I also marked a cpu lockup bug as a possible blocker, but it only seems to affect some hardware, so the impact for testing might be low. 15:21:16 Tao will create the test results wiki page probably tomorrow ... as with our normal test runs, please feel free to add these issues to the list of bugs found 15:21:26 and of course ... the appropriate blocker list 15:21:36 And that one has a potential fix I am hoping to test tonight. 15:21:52 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Current_Release_Blockers 15:22:07 So, by Wednesday I'll start playing with it. 15:22:14 adamw: guess what starts this Friday? 15:22:25 free unicorns for all? 15:22:29 The grub bug seems to be do to a change outside of grub. Maybe the C compiler. 15:22:31 you got it ... in the form of ... 15:22:39 s/do/due/ 15:22:55 #info Coming to a #fedora-bugzappers near you, this Friday, July 15 -- Alpha Blocker Meeting (f16alpha) #1 15:23:05 brunowolff: thanks for chasing that one down 15:23:21 jlaska: unicorns sound like more fun :-P 15:23:23 blocker meetings: like unicorns, only way more tedious 15:23:28 tflink: they definitely are! 15:23:34 and less tasty 15:23:35 Flying Unicorns? 15:23:49 what kind of sick and twisted individual... 15:23:54 would eat a blocker meeting? 15:24:08 jlaska, it would seem 15:24:26 Unless anyone else is anxious for it ... I'll send out a blocker meeting reminder on Wednesday 15:24:44 #action jlaska will announce F16 Alpha blocker review meeting on Wednesday 15:24:47 Please no 4 hour meetings this release. 15:24:50 agreed! 15:25:03 Here here! 15:25:06 I think we'll be able to move through all those systemd proposed bugs in one big swoop 15:25:11 +1 15:25:14 easy way to fix the meeting time ... stop introducing bugs :) 15:25:33 so ... thanks to twu for agreeing to manage the RATs runs this release 15:25:38 brunowolff: don't worry, we're aiming for a minimum of seven 15:25:38 did we ever get anywhere on suggestions on how to make the blocker meetings less painful? 15:25:45 and thanks to several of you for already testing F16/rawhide 15:25:52 * tflink remembers something about pre-processing the bugs 15:25:55 tflink: I have not received any feedback on that subject 15:26:00 tflink: i don't think that went anywhere yet 15:26:01 tflink: we can talk more about that shortly ... 15:26:06 that's another topic on the list 15:26:10 but first ... 15:26:17 if you act now ... you'll get ... 15:26:19 #topic AutoQA updates 15:26:33 any takers to walk us through the latest from AutoQA land? 15:26:38 s/takers/volunteers/ 15:27:04 the big update is... 15:27:10 0.5.0 release 15:27:20 the new spam-less autoqa is awesome, thanks everyone 15:27:26 I guess we didn't announce it here already, right? :) 15:27:45 there are some blogposts about it: 15:27:47 #link http://kparal.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/autoqa-0-5-0-released/ 15:28:02 #info AutoQA 0.5.0 released - "the new spam-less autoqa is awesome, thanks everyone" -athmane 15:28:10 * kparal looking for tflink's blog 15:28:26 And, already, work has started on listing things to toss into 0.6 15:28:32 #link http://blog.tirfa.com/autoqa-050-spamalot-less 15:28:35 * jlaska loves that title :) 15:29:08 we didn't receive much complaints lately 15:29:10 It is awesome 15:29:16 which means it probably works 15:29:45 currently we began planning 0.6 release 15:30:00 Also known as ... "Our most important release to date" :) 15:30:17 and with 4 more hands, we should code faster than ever :)) 15:30:51 mkrizek was already working on AutoQA and now re-joined 15:31:01 and Petr Schindler will introduce himself next week 15:31:09 cool 15:31:20 #info Work has started on listing things to toss into 0.6.0 - https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-July/002524.html 15:31:33 awesome, we tricked mkrizek into coming back!! 15:31:41 * jlaska puts the carrots back in the drawer 15:31:59 team: any other news worth mentioning? 15:32:30 #info nice new AutoQA SOP in the making - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AutoQA_Release_Process 15:32:36 downtime for infra upgrades 15:32:44 tflink: thanks for the reminder .. 15:32:49 are they scheduled? 15:32:53 tomorrow, I think 15:32:54 yup, it's happening tomorrow 15:33:01 thats what the notice said, anyways 15:33:07 anyone have suggestions for how best to coordinate this? 15:33:21 should we announce this outage anywhere? 15:33:36 jlaska: probably should 15:33:56 jlaska: are they upgrading our production instance, or it will just be shut down? 15:33:58 do we know how long we're going to be down with the HW move and SW upgrades? 15:34:00 kparal: tflink: can one of you guys handle that? 15:34:15 jlaska: sure, I can do that. 15:34:19 * kparal missed the notice 15:34:28 tflink: thanks, hit me up afterwards for more guidance on outage time frame etc... 15:34:51 kparal: it's a fresh install, and we'll have access to our old instance for a _short_ while before those resources are taken back 15:34:54 tflink: if you need something i'll be around 15:35:05 jlaska: it means RHEL 6? 15:35:13 #info AutoQA outage scheduled for Tuesday, July 12 - moving to new hardware and vlan 15:35:26 kparal: it'd like for it to mean that :) 15:35:29 kparal: the announcement went out to devel@ - I don't think that it went to test@ 15:35:43 that would be great 15:35:47 kparal: yes it would :D 15:36:07 athmane: thanks, do you want to be cc'd on plans? 15:36:12 I expect we'll likely run into some minor upgrade issues 15:36:15 specifics, anyways 15:36:32 that's how those things work ... I'm planning to just work with infrastructure to push through 15:36:36 yay for no more python 2.4 hacks!!!! 15:36:38 :) 15:36:55 #info tflink looking forward to no longer supporting python2.4 in autoqa 15:36:55 * kparal yay 15:36:57 tflink: sure, I'm also on #fedora-admin, #fedora-noc 15:37:11 note, autotest itself still will support python-2.4 ... but I don't think that's something we need to worry about 15:37:34 kparal: tflink: any objections if I move my proposed Makefile patch into 'master'? 15:37:55 jlaska: nope, I just started trying it out this morning 15:38:00 jlaska: no 15:38:01 looks fine so far 15:38:02 tflink: cool, lemme know if you hit any bugs 15:38:12 tflink: kparal: thanks 15:38:29 anything else to hilight on autoqa? 15:38:47 nothing I can think of 15:39:07 thanks gang for the great 0.5.0 release ... and for getting that ball rollin' for 0.6.0! 15:39:20 #topic R^3 - Retrospective recommendation review 15:39:31 nothing amazing to report here ... 15:39:50 No flying unicorns? 15:39:57 Or cucumbers? 15:39:57 just a reminder that if you are looking to get involved in Fedora QA ... and looking for something to do ... the retrospective is another good place to look 15:40:28 athmane, rhe and adamw have already been making tons of progress on related items from the list ... so thank you 15:40:37 #info just a reminder that if you are looking to get involved in Fedora QA ... and looking for something to do ... the retrospective is another good place to look 15:40:53 #info flying unicorns and/or cucumbers will be considered as rewards 15:41:27 the topic tflink mentioned earlier is on this list ... 15:41:30 flying cucumbers? i want me one of those 15:41:42 waiting for some brave soul to create the request and get this starting 15:42:12 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_15_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations 15:42:25 jlaska: the one about blocker review process? 15:42:47 tflink: you got it ... "Brainstorm for ways to reduce the blocker review meeting length - The meetings are required, effective but far too long. How can we encourage more offline/asynchronous bug processing" 15:43:03 also on this subject ... I'm in the process of creating an SOP to outline the QA Retrospective process 15:43:22 I'll send that to the list for feedback once I flesh out some more content 15:43:52 adamw: did you already address the need for betanag criteria? 15:44:00 jlaska: Review RHBZ #704030 with rel-eng to identify cause and make appropriate SOP changes to ensure issue is not repeated, has someone got that? 15:44:04 I know we talked about it ... but I can't remember if that was already addressed, or still in idea phase 15:44:11 If not, I will 15:44:13 j_dulaney: if you don't see a ticket for it ... go for it! 15:44:25 * j_dulaney will grab it 15:44:27 jlaska: oh, good one. no, didn't do anything yet iirc 15:44:29 j_dulaney: I can create the ticket if you like, just shout 15:44:55 jlaska: I will 15:45:04 adamw: those might be of interest to you (and anyone else who loves unicorns and release criteria) - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_15_QA_Retrospective#Release_Criteria 15:45:08 j_dulaney: thank you!! 15:45:46 okay, any questions/comments/concerns on the F15 retrospective topic 15:45:56 * jlaska prepares to move on ... 15:45:56 shiny 15:46:45 #topic Cloud SIG testing 15:47:03 This was a topic that rbergeron raised a few meetings back ... looking for volunteers to help validate F15 EC2 images 15:47:22 #info This was a topic that rbergeron raised a few meetings back ... looking for volunteers to help validate F15 EC2 images 15:47:52 #info athmane answered the call and created a TRAC ticket (https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/212) and test day page 15:47:55 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Athmane/Draft_Test_Day_Cloud_SIG_Fedora_EC2 15:48:28 The issue here is I haven't got any EC2 space 15:48:29 my understanding is we are trying to decide on a date for the event 15:48:29 is the sig on board with this? 15:49:03 from the cloud meeting on friday, the issue ATM is how the AMIs should be built 15:49:09 This issue was raised during the trip to SELF, namely, how get more people to test this without spending too much money 15:49:10 * athmane is confused in that matter 15:49:15 and whether its possible for the BG built AMIs to be blessed by rel-eng 15:49:24 #info from the cloud meeting on friday, the issue ATM is how the AMIs should be built 15:49:32 rbergeron: still around? 15:50:08 rbergeron would know more but I believe that the desire was to have a late F15 test day for the AMIs and schedule another one for F16 15:50:34 when I wrote test page / test cases I supposed using fedora as server but amazon specific tests are required imho 15:50:57 yeah, it may be ... so who has the ball on this request? 15:51:08 * tflink needs to get off his butt and start some conversations on S3/EBS 15:51:12 jlaska: yes. 15:51:32 * athmane does not use public cloud (amazon etc...) 15:51:36 ONLY for you, and adamw, and tflink, and athmane, and j_dulaney, though. :) 15:51:37 rbergeron: What is the status of providing space for testing purposes? 15:52:18 j_dulaney: on amazon? I'm working with the guy to try and get AWS credits set up. It's not going to be soon, though. Probably more towards end of F16. 15:52:22 In the interim: 15:52:27 For those that want to participate 15:52:44 I believe the cost is *incredibly* low, like... a few dollars. 15:52:46 And I will send them 5 bucks. 15:52:53 Because I am tired of screwing around with it. 15:53:03 we can put that on the test day page, i guess. 15:53:06 I will send it via paypal or USPS. Whatever. LOL 15:53:13 heh 15:53:20 get paid (a minuscule amount) to test fedora! 15:53:23 rbergeron: :) 15:53:26 * j_dulaney notes that he still hasn't a credit card 15:53:29 It would be nice if someone could verify that it's going to be that low of cost, so I'll see if I can get gholms to maybe estimate. 15:53:39 But I seroiusly believe it would be very low cost. 15:53:58 once we get the test cases hammered out, I can go through them and get an estimate 15:54:05 * jsmith estimates two or three dollars at most 15:54:26 Because basically, "community account" means that anyone can do anything, including setting up a personal server for selling pretty pictures over the internet, which would cost 8 zillion dollars. 15:54:30 yeah. 15:55:00 #info Trying to figure out how to reimburse testers for participating in testing Fedora AMIs 15:55:35 * kparal and jskladan departs 15:55:51 so we need some additional test cases too? or is what athmane has good? 15:55:55 kparal: jskladan: thank you 15:55:58 If and when we can get AWS credits going, it will make it a bit easier. (And Amazon will pay for it, too.) 15:56:17 jlaska: everyone in the cloud sig seemed comfortable with what was listed. 15:56:22 rbergeron: yeah, that seems to be a significant participation roadblock 15:56:35 I'll send an email now saying, Please speak in the next few days, or forever hold your peace. 15:56:37 * athmane distracted by th phone 15:56:44 okay, anything else to track here? 15:57:03 jlaska: yeah, but assuming we don't have 500 people show up, and it's like 100 bucks or less from my pocket, it should be fine to paypal/cash reimburse people in the short-term. 15:57:13 #action rbergeron will reach out to cloud-sig for a last call on test case ideas 15:57:26 rbergeron: you might want to add "get approval first" to that process 15:57:32 if it isn't already there 15:58:10 I'm just thinking something along the lines of "send an email first" but maybe that's not really needed 15:58:19 any other action items or tasks associated with this topic? 15:58:29 in the interest of time ... looking to move on 15:58:46 we can obviously discuss this more on the list, on #fedora-qa ... or next week 15:59:01 yeah. I dunno. 15:59:11 tflink: maybe it's a "if you're one of the first 15 or 20" or something. 15:59:23 that seems reasonable 15:59:40 first 20 people to participate, are compensated (up to a X dollar limit) 16:00:01 everyone else gets IOU's 16:00:29 #topic Security Lab SPIN matrix 16:00:33 #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/207 16:01:02 athmane created this nice test matrix ... do we have a plan for how to incorporate this into our release process? 16:01:21 please at least on beta or rcX 16:01:22 or is the idea this will just be used for self-hosting security SPIN testing? 16:01:35 adamw: any thoughts? ^^ 16:01:41 self-hosting sound great 16:01:49 *sounds 16:01:56 it looks great 16:02:00 jlaska: there isn't much we need to do 16:02:17 jlaska: just adjust the SOP that says what to do when a pre-release goes out to include that matrix 16:02:20 right ... my question is whether we include this matrix in the list of matrices that robatino and rhe announce for test events 16:02:24 * athmane may add some security testcases in the near future 16:02:28 i was planning to add the security matrix and the base matrix to the SOP at the same time 16:02:30 adamw: yeah that's what I was wondering 16:02:32 sure 16:02:51 put 'em all in the right categories and that's it, really 16:02:52 jlaska +1 for including in test event announces 16:03:28 #info adamw suggested adjusting the existing release validation SOP to include the new Security SPIN matrix 16:03:39 so it ok to run test once peer cycle 16:04:03 anyone want to volunteer a SOP patch? like something against https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Release_Validation_Test_Event 16:04:31 adamw: If I may, do you think you have room to include this with your 'base' matrix changes? 16:04:38 sure 16:04:48 or athmane can do it 16:04:51 either way we'll get it done =) 16:04:57 excellent 16:05:19 #info athmane or adamw will propose changes to the release SOP to include the Security SPIN matrix in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Release_Validation_Test_Event 16:05:24 athmane: there's no real drawback to publishing it for each pre-release afaics, then we make sure the security list is notified, and they can run through it as often as they choose 16:05:24 adamw: I try to do it, it a great experience 16:05:29 and qa folks can pitch in too 16:05:30 athmane: thanks for volunteering!! 16:05:32 cool 16:05:58 #topic Open Discussion - 16:06:09 anything not previously discussed that folk would like to cover here? 16:06:17 * jlaska sets the 2 minute #endmeeting fuse 16:06:42 Just another "thank you" from the FPL -- I'm seeing great things in QA, and that makes me proud 16:07:08 agreed 16:07:09 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-July/101166.html 16:07:53 less than ~30 seconds remaining until #endmeeting 16:08:09 if no other topics, I'll follow-up to the list with meeting minutes 16:08:18 thanks everyone for your time today ... happy testing!! 16:08:20 #endmeeting