14:16:45 <gbraad> #startmeeting FAmSCo
14:16:45 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Jul 16 14:16:45 2011 UTC.  The chair is gbraad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:16:45 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:16:55 <yn1v> I understand that paypal is not good everywhere.
14:17:10 <gbraad> #chair yn1v igorps mether kaio
14:17:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: gbraad igorps kaio mether yn1v
14:17:18 <igorps> .fas igorps
14:17:19 <zodbot> igorps: igor 'Igor Pires Soares' <igor@projetofedora.org>
14:17:20 <gbraad> #topic Rollcall
14:17:30 <gbraad> .fas gbraad
14:17:30 <zodbot> gbraad: gbraad 'Gerard Braad (吉拉德)' <fedora@gbraad.nl>
14:17:30 <yn1v> I have a outstanding ticket that I can not reimburse myself because paypal does not work in Nicaragua
14:17:58 <gbraad> yn1v: let's bring this up later
14:18:05 <gbraad> .fas kaio
14:18:06 <zodbot> gbraad: kaio 'Caius Chance (かいお)' <me@kaio.net>
14:18:09 <igorps> yn1v, ironically you can't reimburse yourself
14:18:12 <gbraad> .fas mether
14:18:14 <zodbot> gbraad: sundaram 'Rahul Sundaram' <metherid@gmail.com>
14:18:33 <gbraad> welcome all. Pierros couldn't make it today, so I will be your host
14:18:41 <yn1v> igorps, yes... go figure!
14:18:44 <gbraad> #topic Old items
14:19:01 <gbraad> the agenda of the meeting can be found here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda
14:19:26 <gbraad> On the mailinglist we received the results of the survey
14:20:05 <gbraad> based on recent events, dropping the blogs.fp.o and also the aim of the ambassadors (from the survey) I'll leave the community hosting tasks unresolved for npw
14:20:23 <gbraad> I have not further to add to my tasks. So moving along
14:20:49 <gbraad> Since pierros is not here, please igorps
14:21:03 <yn1v> I have a week break from teaching duties so I will make some crossing on the answers to the survey this week
14:21:25 <igorps> I created a skeleton for ambassadors liaisons
14:21:34 <igorps> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassador_liaisons
14:21:50 <gbraad> yn1v: we will discuss the survey later as I have noticed something
14:22:09 <igorps> I imagined two ways of organizing that page, team oriented and task oriented
14:22:21 <yn1v> yes, let's focus on igorps points...
14:22:48 <igorps> I decided to go for task oriented since it's not feasible to list all the teams there
14:23:14 <igorps> As of the report, the draft is also placed on the wiki:
14:23:21 <igorps> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2011-06
14:23:43 <igorps> You can add specific news for your regions if you want to
14:24:07 <gbraad> igorps: any deadline onf when this information needs to be provided?
14:24:34 <igorps> gbraad: I would like to publish it by Tuesday
14:24:51 <gbraad> ok, information needs to be provided by Monday
14:25:03 <yn1v> igorps, I think there is releaseparties missing from the report
14:25:34 <igorps> Due to bug #704298 I won't be able to build a PDF, but will provide a html page generated by publican
14:25:47 <igorps> yn1v, thanks, will add that
14:26:20 <gbraad> igorps: pdf can be provided at a later moment.
14:26:28 <igorps> Just for the record:
14:26:35 <igorps> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=704298
14:26:49 <igorps> gbraad, yep, no problem
14:26:50 <gbraad> thanks
14:26:50 <mether> yes.  pdf generation gets broken now and then unfortunately
14:27:18 <gbraad> anything else to add?
14:27:20 <igorps> I'll generate it later then
14:27:31 <igorps> gbraad, please move on
14:27:41 <yn1v> there is about 20 release events at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_release_events
14:27:46 <gbraad> mether had no old items, but you have anything?
14:28:02 <mether> nope
14:28:12 <gbraad> yn1v: you turn
14:28:25 <yn1v> I will make a link for the release event
14:28:30 <yn1v> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_release_events
14:28:50 <yn1v> well I made a general output of the survey
14:28:56 <gbraad> thanks for this
14:29:04 <yn1v> and it is here
14:29:11 <yn1v> #link http://yn1v.fedorapeople.org/Documents/Fedora_Ambassadors_Survey.pdf
14:29:14 <gbraad> I noticed several things
14:29:44 <yn1v> then I found out that there was a graph for comments but not the text so I make a output of the comments
14:29:46 <igorps> There are interesting results
14:29:58 <yn1v> #link http://yn1v.fedorapeople.org/Documents/comments_to_survey.pdf
14:30:14 <gbraad> Some of them I had mentioned on the mailinglist. It seems most respondents are from APAC
14:30:34 <yn1v> gbraad, what did you noticed
14:30:36 <yn1v> ?
14:31:00 <gbraad> I can't draw many conclusions from this, but are these on more need
14:31:17 <yn1v> I can break down data in a spread sheet to make more in deep analysis
14:31:25 <gbraad> or are the other communities more mature and overly satisfied?
14:31:44 <gbraad> It seems media and swag distribution, education/developer information
14:31:54 <gbraad> and how to get involved/communication are important topics.
14:32:06 <yn1v> if you want I can narrow down to just show one region and see how some questions are different from one region to other
14:32:11 <mether> just a note.  don't look at just the %.  It can be misleading.  look at the total number of responses in a particular category
14:32:19 <mether> yn1v, that would be useful,  I think
14:32:27 <gbraad> +1
14:32:31 <igorps> +1
14:32:40 <gbraad> especially to see the real need of these regions
14:33:05 <yn1v> I will make a complete output in a spread sheet, so anybody can crunch data
14:33:23 <yn1v> and I will make some cross reference.
14:33:44 <igorps> yn1v, that will be nice
14:34:03 <yn1v> I see that goals section can be treated as a whole, but other sections will be really beneficial to have it break down into regions
14:34:31 <gbraad> I am amazed about the low volume
14:34:37 <yn1v> Any more questions?
14:34:52 <xaphir> What is APAC?
14:35:12 <yn1v> yeah... me too... I was expecting more responses
14:35:28 <mether> gbraad, yes indeed.  I assume satisfied ambassadors dont have a incentive to fill up a survey :-)
14:35:28 <igorps> yn1v, have you sent the results to the Ambassadors mailing list?
14:35:45 <yn1v> no, I haven't.
14:35:54 <igorps> I was expecting more volume from NA
14:36:05 <gbraad> xaphir: Google is your friend <- Asian Pacific and China
14:36:07 <mether> xaphir, https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Asia-Pacific
14:36:08 <yn1v> #action yn1v to make a spread sheet wit results
14:36:28 <igorps> yn1v, can you sent it? So people will know we finished it.
14:36:35 <xaphir> gbraad: you have to be careful because these days there is an avalanche of acronyms.
14:36:35 <gbraad> mether: that is also what I assume
14:36:43 <xaphir> context is king.
14:36:54 <yn1v> #action yn1v send links of the survey result to ambassador mailing list
14:37:37 <gbraad> yn1v: the percentage for APAC's repsonse and the amount of ambassadors here is weird ;-) I think we good a good job around advertisement of the survey
14:37:48 <gbraad> xaphir: EMEA, APAC, NA, LATAM
14:38:27 <yn1v> anything else on survey ??
14:38:30 <gbraad> yn1v: any idea when you want to do the cross reference?
14:38:55 <yn1v> I would like to do it this weekend
14:39:46 <gbraad> It does provide valuable information regarding one issue: media distribution. one of the most requested items and not well implemented in some regions
14:40:01 <yn1v> yes
14:40:12 <gbraad> especially when it comes to the reimbursement process. I have to say something improved already
14:40:26 <mether> we probably have to do a better job on providing content on new releases (presentations etc)
14:40:39 <mether> I think that was fairly high as a issue as well
14:40:48 <gbraad> mether: Agree, information seems to be lacking in some parts
14:41:11 <mether> I used to do this earlier but I thought we had grown past that need and I was wrong
14:41:13 <gbraad> I recently noticed we do not have a good repository for posters and flyer material
14:41:19 <igorps> I'm pretty interested on the media distribution issue, since we are in process of producing more media for LATAM
14:41:44 <igorps> gbraad, we do, but I'm not sure if people are aware of that
14:41:46 <mether> igorps, this is where per region differences can be useful to know
14:41:49 <yn1v> there are several channels to get media, like magazines, shops, online stores... apart form media distributed on events.
14:42:00 <igorps> mether, +1
14:42:01 <gbraad> we do have the marketing repo, but it needs to also contain localized content
14:42:13 <yn1v> Keep track of all those, and keep it updated is a very boring job.
14:42:43 <igorps> Localized content is crucial, indeed
14:43:04 <igorps> The point is that someone needs to volunteer to make the localization
14:43:08 <mether> yn1v, if it is required, then we have to do the boring jobs too at times
14:43:26 <gbraad> igorps: reinventing the wheel for marketing material is a real waste of time when it is translated
14:43:34 <gbraad> again and again
14:43:41 <mether> igorps, if we highlight the need more and ask in the localization mailing lists,  we would probably get help there
14:44:09 <yn1v> yes, but it is difficult to relay on volunteers to do a work that anybody in a pay job will skip
14:44:51 <mether> i think what is boring for one person can be interesting for another.  our job is to bring more visibility to the need and ask for help
14:44:55 <yn1v> I agree that we need to work on this, but we have to acknowledge it is a very dry area
14:44:56 <igorps> And sometimes local communities don't have people with design skills to make that job
14:44:59 <mether> if doesnt get done even then, its alright
14:45:37 <mether> i dont expect we will be able to solve all these issues immediately
14:46:03 <gbraad> ok. do we need to create some action points?
14:46:04 <yn1v> I have hope for nushio's event calendar/agenda because we can tag along when there will be media available at those events
14:46:43 <mether> gbraad, yes can we get a break down per region first though?
14:47:04 <gbraad> ok, so lets postpone this
14:47:06 <igorps> yn1v, That reminds me that we need to suggest Nushio as a mentor
14:47:25 <mether> gbraad, we probably need to have a more detailed discussion on the list anyway
14:47:30 <gbraad> igorps: action for he next meetingh
14:47:32 <mether> this is going to take a lot of time
14:47:48 <igorps> gbraad, for sure, np
14:47:54 <gbraad> ok
14:47:58 <gbraad> anything more to add?
14:48:22 <igorps> nothing else from me
14:48:31 <mether> thats it.  anything left on the agenda?
14:48:39 <gbraad> kaio, did you have any points?
14:48:49 <yn1v> #action yn1v to write on mailing a recap about problems on media distribution
14:48:49 <gbraad> #topic Tickets
14:49:00 <gbraad> yn1v: thanks
14:49:25 <kaio> I want to assist the swag and media manufacturing in apac
14:49:29 <gbraad> #191 I have added a rough translation for the Chinese receipt and changed the reimbursement amount
14:50:04 <gbraad> kaio: let's discuss this further on the mailinglist as yn1v will create a topic about this
14:50:13 <kaio> k
14:50:32 <gbraad> were there any other tickets which need attention?
14:50:44 <yn1v> igorps, should I close ticket #178 ?
14:51:06 <igorps> yn1v, not yet
14:51:18 <gbraad> also ticket #191 raised the awareness of how to reimburse. Western Union is considered, but this is not a good solution for the future
14:51:22 <yn1v> maybe will be better just to comment that money has been transfered
14:51:23 <igorps> I'll add some more information there before closing it
14:51:38 <gbraad> from the process on kital's http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jsimon/draft_community_credit_card_process
14:51:43 <gbraad> I noticed APAC was not included
14:52:00 <kaio> for China, paypal is not usable in near future
14:52:01 <igorps> yn1v, yes, I'll add an updated attachment as well
14:52:01 <gbraad> igorps yn1v: please do
14:52:37 <gbraad> kaio: thanks for adding, exactly. I also asked mether this before the meeting and seems this is also not a popular service in India
14:52:38 <yn1v> gbraad, in the past I tried to push for different alternatives including WesternUnion or similar services, and apparently nobody likes that
14:52:53 <gbraad> however, India can use it if needed. but I think the preference is not to
14:53:03 <yn1v> nobody form the people who have authority to make the transfer
14:53:26 <gbraad> yn1v: In China we use a different service entirely (alipay)
14:53:32 <igorps> yn1v, should I reassign #177 to you?
14:53:40 <igorps> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/177
14:53:55 <yn1v> #action yn1v to comment and to add attachments on ticket #178
14:54:45 <gbraad> #action gbraad will post to the mailinglist about reimbursement in APAC
14:55:30 <gbraad> if there were no further tickets to mention, I would like to close this meeting in several minutes
14:55:34 <yn1v> I think that #177 about Chile release party need more info
14:55:45 <yn1v> there is no receipts
14:56:01 <yn1v> I will contact event owner to verify and give follow up.
14:56:13 <igorps> #action igorps to provide updated budget information on ticket #178 due to PayPal taxes
14:56:15 <gbraad> yn1v: put in NEED INFO
14:56:22 <yn1v> #action yn1v follow up on #177
14:56:49 <igorps> yn1v, I think we agreed on about $100 for release parties
14:57:00 <gbraad> #action gbraad will change status of #191 after payment process is clear
14:57:32 <igorps> yn1v, it's a bit over that
14:58:22 <yn1v> I got more for release party, but I did more that provide beer and pizza
14:58:28 <yn1v> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/190
14:58:54 <yn1v> but I am stuck to get reimbursement for that, as paypal does not work in Nicaragua
14:59:00 <kaio> btw, I want to check out about initial fund for Taiwan.
14:59:33 <gbraad> kaio: what do you mean, initial fund?
14:59:38 <yn1v> and same goes for the survey expenses.
14:59:41 <yn1v> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/198
14:59:53 <igorps> yn1v, no problem, as long as they provide specific costs
15:00:18 <igorps> yn1v, no idea on how to solve the reimbursement issue?
15:00:41 <kaio> I have got first 2 ambassadors in Taiwan. We had been planning for the appearance of COSCUP (largest FOSS conf in Taiwan)
15:01:12 <kaio> and we will use that as entry point for Fedora into FOSS community
15:01:17 <mether> kaio, awesome
15:01:41 <gbraad> kaio: so you mean travel expenses
15:01:41 <kaio> followed by regular meet up (preferably in FAD level)
15:01:45 <mether> I was in Taiwan earlier this year and noticed that Fedora is reasonably popular there
15:02:00 <kaio> so, we need to get fund for media, stickers, and reusable huge posters.
15:02:52 <kaio> we have not discussed about travel yet, but if fudcon next year is China, we will start talking about that
15:03:07 <gbraad> kaio: 'if'
15:03:13 <kaio> yes
15:03:28 <gbraad> ok, if nothing more to add
15:03:37 <kaio> so I have not talked about travel, but swags, stickers, media 'only'
15:03:40 <gbraad> I suggest kaio to help create needed tickets
15:03:56 <yn1v> +1
15:03:57 <gbraad> but also to get the media production in APAC going.
15:04:11 <kaio> I just want to get some rough amount for them to act now
15:04:17 <gbraad> I noticed David asked about needed volume, but hardly a response: 0
15:04:44 <gbraad> and also noticed no-one responded to the actual question about production costs <- manufacture costs
15:04:53 <kaio> yes, I will talk to Fams from all other apac countries about their local production
15:05:01 <gbraad> Beijing is more expensive for instance than other places in China
15:05:50 <yn1v> I think will be better to have small batch of swag and/or media under $500 and that will fly on the trac as long we have a way to move the money.
15:06:01 <kaio> I am not sure about media production in CHina
15:06:11 <yn1v> like somebody with paypal that can act locally or that arrange a online transaction
15:06:19 <gbraad> kaio: please raise the concern on the list
15:06:35 <kaio> which one?
15:06:36 <gbraad> would like to discuss this, especially with the FAD coming
15:06:54 <kaio> cost or location of production? or fund to Taiwan?
15:07:03 <gbraad> yn1v: agree
15:07:45 <gbraad> both topics
15:08:09 <gbraad> fund taiwan is probably just tickets and personal messages with them
15:08:21 <gbraad> the media production is another important one
15:08:35 <gbraad> but not picked up by the various ambassadors
15:09:28 <gbraad> nothing more?
15:09:37 <gbraad> I will close this meeting in 2 minutes
15:10:30 <gbraad> #action kaio pings the discussion about media production in APAC
15:10:35 <kaio> ok
15:11:33 <gbraad> thank you all.
15:11:38 <yn1v> :)
15:11:41 <gbraad> #endmeeting