17:00:56 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2011-07-28)
17:00:56 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 28 17:00:56 2011 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:56 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:56 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
17:00:56 <nirik> #topic init process
17:00:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
17:01:00 * EvilBob 
17:01:31 * jsmith is here
17:02:51 * nirik waits a bit for more folks
17:03:03 * nirik puts out some bacon to attract more people.
17:03:13 * EvilBob fans the aroma
17:04:13 <nirik> sizzling from the grill.
17:04:31 * N3LRX 
17:05:12 * nirik will wait another minute and then move forward.
17:05:43 * EvilBob waits while nirik is waiting
17:05:59 * nirik waits on EvilBob waiting on him waiting.
17:06:12 <tibbs> I wish I understood what the CTCP-ACTION thing was.
17:06:27 <mjml> is there an agenda or is it an open forum
17:06:35 <nirik> mjml: there is an agenda...
17:06:51 <EvilBob> mjml: there is an agenda and an open floor at the end
17:06:51 <mjml> i'll just listen then
17:07:06 <nirik> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/irc-support-sig/2011-July/000387.html
17:07:10 <nirik> ^
17:07:18 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and dive in.
17:07:25 <nirik> #topic Week in review
17:07:25 <nirik> http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:07:29 * EvilBob puts on his floaties
17:07:51 <nirik> seemed like a pretty normal week overall...
17:08:05 <nirik> anyone have items they saw come up more often this week? or trends to note?
17:09:06 <nirik> ok, I take that as a no...
17:09:09 <EvilBob> No
17:09:13 <nirik> #topic Tickets
17:09:13 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
17:09:27 <nirik> no tickets open this week.
17:09:40 <nirik> #topic Group Dynamics discussion
17:09:51 <EvilBob> Ya'ay no tickets
17:09:52 <nirik> I'd like to bring up something that I saw another example of the other day...
17:10:37 <nirik> It seems like when we get a large group of channel regulars all talking to the same user, it tends to go poorly and drive the channel temperature up.
17:10:51 * Southern_Gentlem 
17:10:59 <EvilBob> Yup, mob mentality
17:11:11 <nirik> so, I would like folks to try and note when bunches of people are telling the same user the same thing and instead of continuing that, drop back and let ONE person continue with them
17:11:38 * Sonar_Gal sneaks in
17:11:39 <nirik> even if the user is tossing chum in the waters, or very wrong, or trying to do something crazy.
17:12:07 <jsmith> I agree
17:12:08 <nirik> just let one person handle them and that way they get less attention and the channel doesn't have to go on and on about them...
17:12:41 <nirik> if anyone sees this happening try and point it out so people can handle it better.
17:12:49 <EvilBob> nirik: but I have GNOME2 installed in F15 and all the packages are there
17:12:56 <nirik> right.
17:13:01 * EvilBob goes back to his corner
17:13:04 <EvilBob> ;)
17:13:08 <nirik> or 'I want to install fedora ppc rpms on suse'
17:13:13 <nirik> or ...
17:13:28 <nirik> be polite, point out the issues/problems and move on.
17:13:39 <jsmith> EvilBob: In that particular case, trolling the ##fedora folks as part of your response didn't help matters
17:13:59 <nirik> yeah, that likely just highlighted things for them to perk up...
17:14:18 <EvilBob> jsmith: THeir existence in #fedora doesn't help matters
17:14:26 <nirik> in any case when we form mobs things don't go well... ;)
17:14:45 <jsmith> Like I've said before -- the majority of complains I'm hearing about personally are people complaining about the people in this very meeting
17:14:56 <EvilBob> jsmith: GOOD
17:14:56 <jsmith> That tells me that we still have room for improvement
17:15:07 <EvilBob> Lock the doors on the damn channel
17:15:15 <EvilBob> then let them bitch and complain
17:15:34 <jsmith> We're an inclusive community -- I don't want to ever get to the point where we have to lock folks out of the community at large
17:15:36 * nirik agrees we have room for improvment for sure.
17:15:43 <EvilBob> We are the problem, it's always us
17:15:45 <jsmith> (We saw what happened when SuSE had to do that)
17:16:43 <jsmith> There's obviously groups out there that have a vendetta against other people or groups
17:16:46 <nirik> IMHO things were pretty quiet of late... poking them with a stick or highlight doesn't serve any purpose other than to stur things up that were settling.
17:16:48 <EvilBob> Start kicking users when they START being a problem and the problem is gone
17:17:03 <jsmith> and there's probably nothing I can say that'll change that
17:17:12 <EvilBob> Don't let the crap go on for an hour
17:17:17 <jsmith> But let's try to focus on "what" is right and not "who" is right
17:17:32 <jsmith> and certainly try to take the high road if/when they troll us
17:17:35 <EvilBob> You focused on who is WRONG
17:17:53 <EvilBob> DOn't tell us what to focus on
17:18:03 <nirik> things would go on for less time without a mob feeding someone. ;)
17:18:06 <jsmith> I'm not perfect either, nor do I claim to be
17:18:23 <mjml> do you guys all work for RH or are you volunteers
17:18:37 <EvilBob> mjml: easy answer... yes
17:18:41 <nirik> I'll note the suse ppc guy had just a few peopel talk to him, and went away to try his crazy experement... no fuss for the channel.
17:19:04 <EvilBob> mjml: Most of us do not work for Red Hat
17:19:07 <nirik> mjml: both, but I don't think any red hat folks are paid to work on irc support. ;)
17:19:11 <EvilBob> mjml: some do
17:19:24 <EvilBob> mjml: no one is paid by Red Hat to help in #fedora
17:19:52 <EvilBob> That we know of anyhow, jsmith might be the only example but everything is his job... ;)
17:20:46 <nirik> so, to sum up my thoughts for this: a) try not to get a bunch of people feeding one person, if that starts happening, back off and let the most level headed take it. b) try not to stur up ill will by associating people with other groups they may or may not be associated with.
17:20:55 <EvilBob> jsmith: And why are you getting complaints and not directing people to the trac instance?
17:21:00 <nirik> c) try and be polite and professional. ;) d) bacon
17:21:17 <Sonar_Gal> e-z extra bacon
17:21:22 <jsmith> EvilBob: I very much am pointing people to file a ticket in Trac, and escalate to the CWG if they feel that isn't working
17:21:42 <EvilBob> jsmith: are you judge jury and executioner on these items and we don't get a chance to respond directly to facts?
17:22:03 <jsmith> EvilBob: Absolutely not -- hence the reason I asked them to file a ticket, escalate to the CWG (which doesn't involve me)
17:22:03 * nirik doesn't understand where EvilBob is getting that personally.
17:22:15 <EvilBob> If we do not get to respond to them directly then don't bring it up again, thnks
17:22:46 <nirik> I was bringing up this topic because I saw it the other day and it's something we have had fail us in the past...
17:22:56 <nirik> so I wanted people to be aware of it and try and avoid it.
17:23:37 <jsmith> From my standpoint, it wasn't my intention to come in here and point fingers and make accusations
17:23:41 <EvilBob> "<jsmith> Like I've said before -- the majority of complain(t)s I'm hearing about personally are people complaining about the people in this very meeting"
17:23:48 <EvilBob> Then don't
17:24:19 <mjml> in general I have found the people here reasonable
17:24:37 <jsmith> My intention was to point out that there are still places we can all improve, and that even though there aren't always tickets filed, there are still complaints
17:24:51 <jsmith> I'd much rather spend my time doing other things, trust me...
17:24:56 <EvilBob> mjml: The problem is that like everything else in life, you can't make everyone happy at any time.
17:25:08 <Sonar_Gal> One of the problems is they don't want to listen learn and read,  I don't spoonfeed I give them the info they need to resolve the problem.  If they are to lazy to read and follow direction then they don't need to use linux
17:25:32 <EvilBob> Sonar_Gal: +1
17:25:42 <EvilBob> Not yet anyhow
17:25:48 <nirik> Sonar_Gal: I really don't think we have seen that much of that issue of late. I think the people who can't follow directions get stuck in unregistered.
17:25:48 <EvilBob> Someday it might be there
17:25:49 <Sonar_Gal> people now want things fixed and now and are to lazy to do a bit of work and learn
17:25:50 <jsmith> Sonar_Gal: I agree that that's a problem, but we can't control that.  What we can control is how we react.
17:26:29 <Sonar_Gal> jsmith, I agree there to a point.  Fedora use to be a fun room.  Now I am logged in there and ignore the channel
17:26:30 <EvilBob> nirik: Yeah there has been one of those in there for the last 7 hours
17:27:02 <Sonar_Gal> ok now I have to run 2pm appointment and daughter is driving
17:27:13 <EvilBob> Sonar_Gal: best of luck
17:27:15 <nirik> Sonar_Gal: sorry to hear it, but it's of course your choice.
17:27:28 <jsmith> Sonar_Gal: Enjoy...
17:27:44 <nirik> anyhow, wanted to point this group thing out... do we have anything further on that? or this topic in general?
17:27:59 * jsmith has nothing further on the topic
17:28:46 <nirik> #topic Open floor
17:28:53 <nirik> Anyone have anything for open floor?
17:29:46 * nirik listens to the bacon sizzle
17:31:09 <nirik> ok, will close out in a minute if nothing else comes up...
17:31:38 <mjml> thanks
17:32:04 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone.
17:32:11 <nirik> #endmeeting