17:00:56 #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2011-07-28) 17:00:56 Meeting started Thu Jul 28 17:00:56 2011 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00:56 #meetingname irc-support-sig 17:00:56 #topic init process 17:00:56 The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig' 17:01:00 * EvilBob 17:01:31 * jsmith is here 17:02:51 * nirik waits a bit for more folks 17:03:03 * nirik puts out some bacon to attract more people. 17:03:13 * EvilBob fans the aroma 17:04:13 sizzling from the grill. 17:04:31 * N3LRX 17:05:12 * nirik will wait another minute and then move forward. 17:05:43 * EvilBob waits while nirik is waiting 17:05:59 * nirik waits on EvilBob waiting on him waiting. 17:06:12 I wish I understood what the CTCP-ACTION thing was. 17:06:27 is there an agenda or is it an open forum 17:06:35 mjml: there is an agenda... 17:06:51 mjml: there is an agenda and an open floor at the end 17:06:51 i'll just listen then 17:07:06 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/irc-support-sig/2011-July/000387.html 17:07:10 ^ 17:07:18 ok, lets go ahead and dive in. 17:07:25 #topic Week in review 17:07:25 http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html 17:07:29 * EvilBob puts on his floaties 17:07:51 seemed like a pretty normal week overall... 17:08:05 anyone have items they saw come up more often this week? or trends to note? 17:09:06 ok, I take that as a no... 17:09:09 No 17:09:13 #topic Tickets 17:09:13 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1 17:09:27 no tickets open this week. 17:09:40 #topic Group Dynamics discussion 17:09:51 Ya'ay no tickets 17:09:52 I'd like to bring up something that I saw another example of the other day... 17:10:37 It seems like when we get a large group of channel regulars all talking to the same user, it tends to go poorly and drive the channel temperature up. 17:10:51 * Southern_Gentlem 17:10:59 Yup, mob mentality 17:11:11 so, I would like folks to try and note when bunches of people are telling the same user the same thing and instead of continuing that, drop back and let ONE person continue with them 17:11:38 * Sonar_Gal sneaks in 17:11:39 even if the user is tossing chum in the waters, or very wrong, or trying to do something crazy. 17:12:07 I agree 17:12:08 just let one person handle them and that way they get less attention and the channel doesn't have to go on and on about them... 17:12:41 if anyone sees this happening try and point it out so people can handle it better. 17:12:49 nirik: but I have GNOME2 installed in F15 and all the packages are there 17:12:56 right. 17:13:01 * EvilBob goes back to his corner 17:13:04 ;) 17:13:08 or 'I want to install fedora ppc rpms on suse' 17:13:13 or ... 17:13:28 be polite, point out the issues/problems and move on. 17:13:39 EvilBob: In that particular case, trolling the ##fedora folks as part of your response didn't help matters 17:13:59 yeah, that likely just highlighted things for them to perk up... 17:14:18 jsmith: THeir existence in #fedora doesn't help matters 17:14:26 in any case when we form mobs things don't go well... ;) 17:14:45 Like I've said before -- the majority of complains I'm hearing about personally are people complaining about the people in this very meeting 17:14:56 jsmith: GOOD 17:14:56 That tells me that we still have room for improvement 17:15:07 Lock the doors on the damn channel 17:15:15 then let them bitch and complain 17:15:34 We're an inclusive community -- I don't want to ever get to the point where we have to lock folks out of the community at large 17:15:36 * nirik agrees we have room for improvment for sure. 17:15:43 We are the problem, it's always us 17:15:45 (We saw what happened when SuSE had to do that) 17:16:43 There's obviously groups out there that have a vendetta against other people or groups 17:16:46 IMHO things were pretty quiet of late... poking them with a stick or highlight doesn't serve any purpose other than to stur things up that were settling. 17:16:48 Start kicking users when they START being a problem and the problem is gone 17:17:03 and there's probably nothing I can say that'll change that 17:17:12 Don't let the crap go on for an hour 17:17:17 But let's try to focus on "what" is right and not "who" is right 17:17:32 and certainly try to take the high road if/when they troll us 17:17:35 You focused on who is WRONG 17:17:53 DOn't tell us what to focus on 17:18:03 things would go on for less time without a mob feeding someone. ;) 17:18:06 I'm not perfect either, nor do I claim to be 17:18:23 do you guys all work for RH or are you volunteers 17:18:37 mjml: easy answer... yes 17:18:41 I'll note the suse ppc guy had just a few peopel talk to him, and went away to try his crazy experement... no fuss for the channel. 17:19:04 mjml: Most of us do not work for Red Hat 17:19:07 mjml: both, but I don't think any red hat folks are paid to work on irc support. ;) 17:19:11 mjml: some do 17:19:24 mjml: no one is paid by Red Hat to help in #fedora 17:19:52 That we know of anyhow, jsmith might be the only example but everything is his job... ;) 17:20:46 so, to sum up my thoughts for this: a) try not to get a bunch of people feeding one person, if that starts happening, back off and let the most level headed take it. b) try not to stur up ill will by associating people with other groups they may or may not be associated with. 17:20:55 jsmith: And why are you getting complaints and not directing people to the trac instance? 17:21:00 c) try and be polite and professional. ;) d) bacon 17:21:17 e-z extra bacon 17:21:22 EvilBob: I very much am pointing people to file a ticket in Trac, and escalate to the CWG if they feel that isn't working 17:21:42 jsmith: are you judge jury and executioner on these items and we don't get a chance to respond directly to facts? 17:22:03 EvilBob: Absolutely not -- hence the reason I asked them to file a ticket, escalate to the CWG (which doesn't involve me) 17:22:03 * nirik doesn't understand where EvilBob is getting that personally. 17:22:15 If we do not get to respond to them directly then don't bring it up again, thnks 17:22:46 I was bringing up this topic because I saw it the other day and it's something we have had fail us in the past... 17:22:56 so I wanted people to be aware of it and try and avoid it. 17:23:37 From my standpoint, it wasn't my intention to come in here and point fingers and make accusations 17:23:41 " Like I've said before -- the majority of complain(t)s I'm hearing about personally are people complaining about the people in this very meeting" 17:23:48 Then don't 17:24:19 in general I have found the people here reasonable 17:24:37 My intention was to point out that there are still places we can all improve, and that even though there aren't always tickets filed, there are still complaints 17:24:51 I'd much rather spend my time doing other things, trust me... 17:24:56 mjml: The problem is that like everything else in life, you can't make everyone happy at any time. 17:25:08 One of the problems is they don't want to listen learn and read, I don't spoonfeed I give them the info they need to resolve the problem. If they are to lazy to read and follow direction then they don't need to use linux 17:25:32 Sonar_Gal: +1 17:25:42 Not yet anyhow 17:25:48 Sonar_Gal: I really don't think we have seen that much of that issue of late. I think the people who can't follow directions get stuck in unregistered. 17:25:48 Someday it might be there 17:25:49 people now want things fixed and now and are to lazy to do a bit of work and learn 17:25:50 Sonar_Gal: I agree that that's a problem, but we can't control that. What we can control is how we react. 17:26:29 jsmith, I agree there to a point. Fedora use to be a fun room. Now I am logged in there and ignore the channel 17:26:30 nirik: Yeah there has been one of those in there for the last 7 hours 17:27:02 ok now I have to run 2pm appointment and daughter is driving 17:27:13 Sonar_Gal: best of luck 17:27:15 Sonar_Gal: sorry to hear it, but it's of course your choice. 17:27:28 Sonar_Gal: Enjoy... 17:27:44 anyhow, wanted to point this group thing out... do we have anything further on that? or this topic in general? 17:27:59 * jsmith has nothing further on the topic 17:28:46 #topic Open floor 17:28:53 Anyone have anything for open floor? 17:29:46 * nirik listens to the bacon sizzle 17:31:09 ok, will close out in a minute if nothing else comes up... 17:31:38 thanks 17:32:04 ok, thanks for coming everyone. 17:32:11 #endmeeting