15:00:36 <adamw> #startmeeting fedora-qa-meeting
15:00:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Aug 22 15:00:36 2011 UTC.  The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:40 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa-meeting
15:00:40 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa-meeting'
15:01:35 <adamw> #topic roll call
15:01:44 <adamw> hey everyone, is it just me?
15:02:02 <tflink> yep, meeting for one :-D
15:02:24 * mkrizek present
15:02:29 * brunowolff is here
15:02:38 <adamw> my favourite kind
15:02:44 <tflink> reaching consensus is much easier when you're by yourself
15:02:55 <adamw> all you other kids just screw up my meetings
15:03:25 <tflink> that's what I'm here for - glad to hear that I'm achieving my purpose
15:03:53 <adamw> that's why we pay you the premium peanuts
15:04:49 <adamw> #topic previous meeting follow-up
15:05:00 <adamw> so this one's pretty light, as last week just turned into a blocker review...
15:05:07 <adamw> "robatino, adamw or tflink - do RC4 announcement once the compose is complete"
15:05:12 <adamw> and, i'm pretty sure that happened.
15:05:24 <tflink> that and RC5
15:06:09 <adamw> so yay.
15:06:11 * jskladan lurks
15:06:21 <adamw> #topic l10n / i18n test week
15:06:23 * j_dulaney is here
15:06:30 <adamw> hey jays
15:06:38 <j_dulaney> Sorry for the lateness, overslept
15:06:53 <adamw> this was scheduled for this week - it's going to be the first major f16 test event - but there's news...
15:07:12 <adamw> i don't think anyone involved is around, so i'll pass it on: it's being pushed back a week
15:07:24 <tflink> aren't we pretty much pushing back all the test days a week?
15:07:30 <adamw> that may look like it's going to run into the X.org test week, but that's being pushed back too (by ajax's request)
15:07:35 <adamw> no, we don't normally slip the test day schedule
15:08:07 <adamw> l10n/i18n is a special case as it relies on something from the main release schedule, a translation test spin, i believe
15:08:14 <adamw> so it wouldn't make sense to go ahead with it this week
15:08:14 <j_dulaney> Indeed; I had understood those were the only two tests being pushed back
15:08:31 <adamw> yep, so far, anyway.
15:09:25 <adamw> #info l10n/i18n test week is being pushed back to next week: 08-30, 08-31, 09-01
15:09:41 <adamw> #info X week is also being pushed back, to 09-06, 09-07, 09-08
15:09:56 <adamw> #info other test days remain in place for now
15:10:24 <adamw> i think that'd be all on this topic...
15:10:59 * adamw notices he missed one topic. oops.
15:11:04 <adamw> #topic alpha preparation
15:11:28 <adamw> first up, huge thanks to everyone (even those not present) for all the alpha validation testing...i know that was a lot of RCs!
15:11:44 <adamw> it was great work to make sure we didn't have another slip
15:12:02 <tflink> no kidding
15:12:36 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:12:41 <adamw> so, just wanted a general topic to cover any other work we need to do for alpha, and maybe look forward to beta
15:12:58 <adamw> the most obvious thing is to put together the Common Bugs page: i usually work on that, but help is most welcome
15:13:12 <tflink> yeah, that was the thing I was thinking of
15:13:42 <adamw> you can refer to the bugzilla query http://bit.ly/fedora-commonbugs-proposed to find the list of bugs awaiting commonbugs entries (beware there may be one or two stale f15 proposals on there)
15:14:27 <adamw> the page will be at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F16_bugs; i haven't put the skeleton up yet but will soon
15:14:47 <adamw> there's 'docs' in the page comments about how to format entries on the page
15:15:17 <adamw> #info the common bugs page at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F16_bugs will need entries for the bugs on http://bit.ly/fedora-commonbugs-proposed
15:15:23 <j_dulaney> So,just jump in and add stuff?
15:15:33 <adamw> yup, that'd be great
15:15:35 <j_dulaney> Curse sticking spacebar
15:15:50 <adamw> please ensure all entries have the full allocation of spaces ;)
15:16:53 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:17:17 <adamw> the other thing that seemed a good idea to me would be to go through the alpha rc validation results and check that bugs are appropriately flagged as blockers for future points
15:17:29 <adamw> so make sure beta fails are proposed as beta blockers, final fails as final blockers
15:17:38 <adamw> anyone want to do that? or think it's a silly idea?
15:17:55 <tflink> in the meeting or just getting it done?
15:18:10 <j_dulaney> Good idea to get done
15:19:03 <adamw> tflink: just seeing if anyone wants to volunteer
15:19:17 * rbergeron reads
15:19:39 <tflink> I can do it if there are no other volunteers
15:19:58 <adamw> good volunteerin' there
15:20:13 <adamw> #action tflink to check alpha/beta/final validation results and ensure bugs are correctly marked as blockers
15:20:31 <adamw> we have the first beta blocker review meeting coming up friday, which i'm sure everyone's looking forward to
15:21:08 <tflink> as always
15:21:13 <j_dulaney> Is there an RC/TC out?
15:21:23 <adamw> j_dulaney: no, beta tc doesn't land for a week or two
15:21:25 * adamw checks schedule
15:21:45 <adamw> j_dulaney: http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-16/f-16-quality-tasks.html says 09-06 for beta tc
15:22:01 <j_dulaney> Righteo
15:22:01 * nirik notes (slightly related) that this mornings branched f16 push pushes things to stable (post freeze), so there's likely to be a bunch of changes/updates after today.
15:22:27 <adamw> there's an acceptance test planned for 08-31...as discussed a few weeks back i'd kinda like to turn the acceptance tests into tcs, but probably best to make that an f17 thing
15:22:41 <j_dulaney> What are the chances of a TC being put together sooner?
15:23:13 <adamw> well, we could certainly try that if everyone likes the idea
15:23:28 <adamw> we'd have to check in with the anaconda team
15:23:53 <adamw> the go/no-go is scheduled for 09-21, which would give us two weeks (and a day) of validation testing with a 09-06 tc
15:24:03 <adamw> er...I mean check in with releng. but yes, anaconda too.
15:24:20 <j_dulaney> I'm just thinking that the sooner we get started, the better.
15:24:47 <nirik> but if you start too soon, things could change a bunch. ;)
15:24:51 <adamw> i certainly agree, but it's not always a great idea to fiddle with the schedule while it's in progress...but then, all it'd really mean is posting some more matrices and calling the rats images tc1 instead
15:25:15 <brunowolff> The 3.1 kernels have not been working well for me, so expect some issues there.
15:25:29 <adamw> rbergeron: do you have an opinion on this one?
15:25:39 <j_dulaney> nirik:  True, but the sooner we get on it, the better, yes?
15:25:48 <rbergeron> adamw: /me reads up, was in another meeting
15:25:52 <j_dulaney> Ugh, space bar slowing down typing
15:26:26 <rbergeron> yeah, i'm not a fan of "fiddle with the schedule while in progress" - and honestly, the problems we *usually* have are in alpha, not beta, when we're trying to get the TC/RC put together
15:26:39 <rbergeron> but yes - i mean, we could call earlier images tc's instead.
15:26:56 <rbergeron> I hate to just *do that* without feeling other folks out, though.
15:27:05 <rbergeron> Unless we have a specific problem we're trying to solve.
15:27:18 <rbergeron> Or avoid.
15:27:22 <adamw> rbergeron: i think the specific problem is mostly 'crap, let's not slip again' =)
15:27:28 <rbergeron> yeah.
15:27:33 <j_dulaney> adamw +1
15:27:37 <rbergeron> We *always* slip at Alpha, we don't always slip at Beta.
15:27:45 <adamw> yeah.
15:28:02 <rbergeron> Also - we can add all hte bugffer time in the universe, but it really comes down to people pushing $whatever in at the last second.
15:28:21 <rbergeron> sooo
15:28:41 <adamw> rbergeron: well, it usually comes down to that because we don't identify the blocker that's getting fixed till 'last second minus two seconds'
15:28:45 <rbergeron> right
15:28:46 <adamw> to be fair
15:28:53 <rbergeron> well
15:28:57 <adamw> i do think extra tc time will help at alpha especially, and it can't really hurt at beta / final
15:29:10 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:29:22 <rbergeron> my point is - I feel in some ways like the last second stuff always happens at the last second, no matter what, but maybe some buffer might help.
15:29:24 <adamw> it's just a question of any practical issues with it, and whether we really want to do all that testing...j_dulaney seems enthusiastic, though
15:29:30 <adamw> whatever meds you're on, i want some =)
15:29:32 <rbergeron> And it's not like we're blowing a perfect schedule thus far.
15:29:44 <rbergeron> If we try it with Beta, and it doesn't work. :)
15:29:45 <adamw> so, let's see...
15:29:56 <j_dulaney> adamw:  You don't want these.
15:29:58 * adamw is cautiously in favour, j_dulaney is in favour
15:30:19 <j_dulaney> adamw: My meds keep me out of the nut house; they'd put normal people in the nut house
15:30:21 <adamw> nirik: tflink: brunowolff: anyone else I missed: do you have votes?
15:30:29 <rbergeron> WRT "all that testing" - if we're thinking about doing this permanently, we'd want to make sure we always have someone with whatever meds j_dulaney has.
15:30:30 <adamw> j_dulaney: whatever gave you the impression I was normal?
15:30:46 <rbergeron> Otherwise it doesn't work out so well.
15:30:50 <j_dulaney> adamw:  true
15:30:57 <tflink> I'm not against starting with the testing earlier
15:31:02 <adamw> rbergeron: right, although i'd also thought along those lines that if we don't get every single test done for tc1 out of 4 (or whatever it turns out to be), that ain't the end of the world.
15:31:02 * nirik doesn't care what we call it. ;)
15:31:04 <rbergeron> I'm kosher with giving it a shot, I don't see a problem with it.
15:31:06 <tflink> as long as we have the people to do it :)
15:31:18 <tflink> TC/RATS ... whatever we want to call it
15:31:20 <rbergeron> Maybe we call it a validation compose. ;)
15:31:23 <rbergeron> lol
15:31:25 <adamw> heh.
15:31:28 <tflink> TTC?
15:31:34 <rbergeron> T2C!
15:31:35 <adamw> EYBC
15:31:38 <rbergeron> Whatever. I say we go for it
15:31:39 <adamw> (eats your babies candidate)
15:31:42 <adamw> okay
15:31:53 * jskladan is sorry, internet connection died on me :-/
15:31:54 <j_dulaney> HH2G
15:32:02 <adamw> so in practice that would just entail putting the rats image out on dl.fp.o and printing some matrices, really. it's not a big change.
15:32:09 <rbergeron> Right.
15:32:15 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:32:17 <brunowolff> I think being proactive in finding blockers earlier rather than later is good, but i am not sure if early TCs are needed.
15:32:24 <adamw> so...how about someone checks in with anaconda and releng teams and makes sure it's okay by them? and if they say yes, we go ahead
15:32:36 * j_dulaney had been testing Rawhide with the nightlies in a VM
15:32:49 <adamw> j_dulaney: the nightlies are f16 not rawhide, i believe
15:32:53 <j_dulaney> adamw:  I can do that
15:33:05 * j_dulaney speaks of prior to branch
15:33:09 <adamw> ah i see
15:33:14 <adamw> okay
15:33:45 <adamw> #action j_dulaney to check in with anaconda and releng teams on the feasibility of making the rats point (08-31) an early tc
15:33:50 * rbergeron goes to take people for education, brb.
15:34:02 * rbergeron applays adamw's bus-under-throwing, nice work
15:34:03 <rbergeron> ;)
15:34:05 <rbergeron> applauds
15:34:09 <adamw> if you could update us on the list that'd  be great - next meeting might be a bit tight
15:34:10 <adamw> rbergeron: heh
15:34:50 <adamw> or we could discuss it at the open discussion bit of the blocker meeting, everyone's always eager to extend those meetings, right?!
15:34:51 <j_dulaney> adamw:  Indeed
15:35:00 <j_dulaney> Nope
15:35:15 <tflink> adamw: no, not really
15:35:39 * j_dulaney will have trouble enough with making blockers, if they go over they'll be blocking class.  This is not cool
15:35:59 <adamw> heh
15:36:10 <adamw> so, list update it is
15:36:30 <adamw> alright...do we have any other post-alpha / pre-beta stuff to discuss?
15:37:14 <adamw> oh, hey, i have one!
15:37:25 <adamw> looking at the retrospective, one of the points is about the tc images being delayed
15:37:37 <tflink> the F15 retrospective?
15:37:44 <tflink> or the new F16 one?
15:37:46 <adamw> not that old thing, the new new one
15:37:57 <adamw> it might be good for us to have a tc shepherd poking releng with a stick when it comes to image compose time
15:38:07 <j_dulaney> Alpha TC1 for F16 comes to mind
15:38:17 <adamw> right
15:38:30 * tflink doesn't quite understand what you're proposing
15:38:33 <j_dulaney> adamw:  I could do that this round; can't say I'll do it for the future
15:38:42 <adamw> j_dulaney: i think we'd best not overload your plate :)
15:38:46 <tflink> you mean someone that pesters releng to make sure that their issues are being taken care of?
15:39:01 <tflink> or whatever you want to call what happened with the alpha tc
15:39:04 <adamw> tflink: really, just someone to file the ticket requesting tc1 and then posts to it to ensure the delivery
15:39:10 <nirik> I think alpha creeps up on everyone...
15:39:12 <j_dulaney> adamw:  Since I'm going to be poking them anyway, I could include it in the same emails
15:39:23 <adamw> nothing too heavy-handed, maybe just a post a day or two before the scheduled date, and of course post again on the date if the images don't show up
15:39:32 <adamw> nirik: yeah, it tends to
15:39:45 <adamw> it's an idea, if no-one likes it, never mind
15:40:14 <tflink> it would be nice to avoid another week delay in tc
15:40:24 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:40:36 * tflink isn't pointing fingers, though
15:41:00 <adamw> no, none of that
15:41:14 <j_dulaney> Maybe doing it for F17 wouldn't be too bad, though
15:41:24 <adamw> ok
15:41:43 <adamw> doesn't seem anyone's that enthusiastic, so let's leave it
15:42:03 <adamw> soo...
15:42:07 <adamw> #topic AutoQA update
15:42:13 <adamw> do we have anyone from autoqa to take the floor?
15:42:57 <tflink> kparal is gone this week and I've been spending most of my time on other things ... jskladan ?
15:42:59 <j_dulaney> tflink:  I've sent you an email with the test suit
15:43:07 <tflink> j_dulaney: awesome
15:43:24 <adamw> we're getting test suits now?
15:43:25 <j_dulaney> It's gzipped
15:43:27 <adamw> why wasn't i told?
15:43:44 <tflink> adamw: because we knew you'd object
15:43:53 <j_dulaney> adamw:  the mock infranstructure and testing mechanism
15:44:03 <j_dulaney> For testing AutoQA
15:44:05 <adamw> j_dulaney: just making a joke about the missing e :)
15:44:17 <tflink> j_dulaney: I'll keep an eye out for it, I haven't seen anything yet
15:44:17 <j_dulaney> Doh
15:44:36 <j_dulaney> tflink:  for some reason, Github doesn't like me
15:44:47 <j_dulaney> I can't commit even to my own repository
15:44:47 <tflink> :-/
15:45:01 <j_dulaney> So, I gave up on it
15:45:06 <adamw> jskladan: alive?
15:45:42 <tflink> I think that we were spending more time on testing alpha last week than autoqa development
15:45:50 <tflink> but I'll see how far off I am on this :)
15:46:19 <tflink> mkrizek has been working to get more of our dependencies into fedora (yourls, autoqa)
15:46:37 <j_dulaney> tflink:  True; I did almost nothing AutoQA related last week
15:46:39 <adamw> #chair tflink
15:46:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw tflink
15:46:50 <adamw> #info "I think that we were spending more time on testing alpha last week than autoqa development"
15:47:42 <tflink> # info inching towards getting the rest of AutoQA's dependencies packaged in fedora
15:47:47 <j_dulaney> tflink:  I included a text file on how to put together tests (how to do the config file, where to put RPMs to test, etc)
15:47:50 <tflink> #info inching towards getting the rest of AutoQA's dependencies packaged in fedora
15:48:19 <tflink> #info j_dulaney has been working on the self test portions of AutoQA
15:48:22 <j_dulaney> So, now we need to start thinking up tests to run on AutoQA
15:48:51 <j_dulaney> I've got a few ideas I'll be putting on the ticket sometime this week
15:49:13 <tflink> We'll be pushing forward with the features planned for 0.7.0 but other than that, will be testing F16
15:49:14 <adamw> do we have any roadblocks with the packaging stuff? did the sponsor issue work out?
15:49:34 <tflink> mkrizek would know for certain but I believe so, yes
15:50:03 <adamw> great
15:50:05 <tflink> I don't believe that we have any new roadblocks for packaging, autotest just isn't going to be easy :)
15:50:16 <tflink> how's that for a disorganized and long status?
15:50:39 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:50:42 <adamw> 10/10!
15:50:47 <tflink> sweet
15:51:05 <adamw> keep us all in the loop with any packaging issues, i'm sure we can handle reviews at least among the rest of the group
15:51:28 <tflink> will do
15:51:40 <adamw> #info "We'll be pushing forward with the features planned for 0.7.0 but other than that, will be testing F16"
15:51:51 <adamw> #topic open discussion
15:51:58 <adamw> okay...so, anything i missed? there's gotta b
15:51:58 <adamw> e
15:52:43 <j_dulaney> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^B^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
15:52:47 <j_dulaney> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
15:53:03 <j_dulaney> A 'B' in the carrot patch
15:54:16 <adamw> man, we're dying out here
15:54:18 <adamw> someone tell a joke
15:54:51 <tflink> two men walked into a bar ... the third one ducked
15:54:58 <adamw> ba-dum *tish*
15:55:04 <adamw> play us off, stan
15:55:13 <adamw> *dances off stage sideways with cane*
15:55:20 <j_dulaney> So, a Microsoft Programmer, an Apple Programmer, and a Linux hacker walk into a library
15:55:43 <adamw> oh boy, should we stop you before the lawyers wake up? =)
15:55:52 <j_dulaney> Probably
15:56:13 <adamw> hehe
15:56:19 <adamw> i guess that's it then...
15:56:42 <adamw> everyone look out for the blocker meeting friday, and a rats run or tc image the following week
15:57:13 <adamw> oh
15:57:21 <adamw> does anyone want to chair the next meeting? next week, same time, same place?
15:57:28 <j_dulaney> Right
15:58:30 * j_dulaney is available
15:58:53 <adamw> #action j_dulaney to chair the next meeting
15:58:55 <j_dulaney> As long as I get to class by 1 PM
15:59:04 <adamw> thanks jay! you know the location of the meeting SOP, right?
15:59:50 <j_dulaney> Indeed
16:00:10 <adamw> cool
16:00:14 <adamw> thanks for coming, everyone
16:00:16 <adamw> #endmeeting