19:00:03 #startmeeting Cloud SIG 19:00:03 Meeting started Fri Aug 26 19:00:03 2011 UTC. The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:07 #meetingname Cloud SIG 19:00:07 The meeting name has been set to 'cloud_sig' 19:00:17 #topic Who's here? 19:00:28 * tflink is here 19:00:29 * mgoldmann is here, maybe 19:00:31 Chirp, chirp 19:00:37 * athmane is around 19:00:57 * msavy is here, there and everywhere 19:00:57 * gholms pokes kkeithley 19:01:08 * jsmith is here, lurking 19:01:10 * spevack waves hello from his new home @ Amazon 19:01:14 hey 19:01:20 how's Windows treating you? 19:01:25 * quaid is not here 19:01:29 spevack! 19:01:34 spevack! 19:01:36 hey jsmith 19:01:37 rbergeron: Windows? is that a fork of Lindows? 19:01:38 * jforbes is here 19:01:39 hi gholms 19:02:08 #info rbergeron: fwiw, I think the 'cudcon as part of fudcon' is clearly dead, and we need to keep ongoing about a general conference for open source cloudiness 19:02:29 #info present - mgoldmann, clalance, tflink, athmane, gholms, jsmith, spevack, jforbes, quaid, msavy, kkeithley 19:02:36 #chair quaid gholms jforbes 19:02:36 Current chairs: gholms jforbes quaid rbergeron 19:02:38 quaid: noted :) 19:02:45 rbergeron: meetbot already logs attendance 19:02:51 thx, have to jet; great list discussion fwiw :) 19:02:52 rbergeron: It's at the bottom of the minutes. ;) 19:02:55 yeah, i know. 19:03:01 #topic EC2 19:03:04 jforbes: hi 19:03:29 Still working on making the F16 alpha work with pvgrub 19:03:34 welcome back from vacation and travel 19:03:38 thanks :) 19:03:46 what's up with pvgrub? 19:03:58 It expects grub1 config files 19:04:11 Oooh, lovely... 19:04:30 le sigh 19:04:31 jsmith: not as horrible as it sounds 19:04:53 And at least this is being discovered now instead of at release time 19:05:11 #info F16 alpha on EC2 in progress; pvgrub complaining about grub1 files, F16 has moved to grub2 19:05:19 jforbes: indeed 19:05:32 it doesnt really complain, in fact it is completely silent on the issue :) 19:05:40 is this something you need help from other with, or just handling on your own? 19:06:02 I've got it, unless mgoldmann happens to already have a solution? 19:06:04 others... man, my typing sucks today. 19:06:06 it's easy to handle - we just generate required config 19:06:21 jforbes: correct, new BG support F16 alpha 19:06:38 mgoldmann: oh, there is an update? 19:06:48 * jforbes should have alpha images done by monday then :) 19:06:49 jforbes: will be out in... 10 minutes 19:07:23 mgoldmann: thanks! 19:07:25 #info new BG in F16 (will be available in about 10 minutes) handles grub issues, thanks mgoldmann/msavy :) 19:07:34 Yay! 19:07:35 jforbes: so you'll just hold till monday then? 19:07:45 rbergeron: this is an mgoldmann party trick 19:08:02 rbergeron: let's talk about BG in the last stage of this meeting 19:08:10 rbergeron: Well, I will start tonight, but it's my son's birthday, so I am guessing not much will be done 19:08:13 so msavy has some time to push the blog post and we could link it 19:08:24 #action jforbes to try building F16 alpha images mondayish after new BG pushes out, should be able to build without grub1/2 problems 19:08:31 mgoldmann: sounds good 19:08:31 one thing 19:08:42 curent Fedora 16 kernel is broken for EC2 19:08:46 WHAT 19:08:53 IF ONLY WE KNEW SOMEONE WHO WORKED ON KERNELS FOR A LIVING 19:08:57 Got a link to the bug? 19:08:59 current STABLE kernel 19:09:00 please ,pleas bump karma on kernel which is in updates -testing 19:09:04 gholms: one sec 19:09:22 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=733313 19:09:24 #info f16 kernel is broken for ec2, please bump karma on kernel which is in updates -testing 19:09:26 same issue as with F15 19:09:31 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/kernel-3.1.0-0.rc3.git0.0.fc16 19:09:36 * athmane will test the new kernel 19:09:36 ^^ bump, bump! 19:09:59 with this kernel - AMis work as expecte 19:10:00 gholms, oh wise meetbot expert - does the bot pick up links from non-chaired people? 19:10:16 mgoldmann: so jforbes should wait until that issue is resolved as well? 19:10:30 #info kernel-3.0.1-3.fc16 is broken in EC2; please test kernel-3.1.0-0.rc3.git0.0.fc16 19:10:33 rbergeron: Yes 19:10:35 it is resolved in new kernel - we need to make it to stable ASAP 19:10:56 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/kernel-3.1.0-0.rc3.git0.0.fc16 19:11:06 Right, so monday :) 19:11:18 yah :) 19:11:19 #action jforbes to also wait on new kernel update/fixes/karma/etc. before pushing out an f16 alpha as kernel is not happy at the moment 19:11:22 mgoldmann: Is the one in updates-testing the right one? 19:11:38 gholms: correct 19:11:49 https://github.com/boxgrinder/boxgrinder-build/blob/master/integ/appliances/jeos-f16.appl 19:11:55 cool. mgoldmann, thanks for the tips :) 19:11:57 this is a working F16 build 19:12:15 saving us (mostly justin) time as always 19:12:24 yw! 19:12:32 Indeed, thanks a lot! 19:12:38 alrighty. anything else in ec2-land to discuss? 19:12:52 rbergeron: Just out of curiosity 19:12:56 jsmith: yes? 19:13:01 rbergeron: How many people took you up on the EC2 testing offer? 19:13:17 * jsmith meant to ask a couple of weeks ago, and forgot 19:13:58 * ke4qqq shows up late 19:14:00 You mean the $5 dolla offer? 19:14:01 Nobody. 19:14:05 But people still tested. 19:14:08 Did most folks that did testing just foot the bill themselves, or did some want the $5? 19:14:12 Ah, good to know. 19:14:18 Sorry to hold up the meeting... I was just curious. 19:14:21 BG does micro instances - super cheap (not that it isn't already) 19:14:29 No problem :) 19:14:38 #topic Aeolus 19:14:43 yep, and F16 on micro works - tested today 19:14:46 clalance: hi there. 19:15:11 rbergeron: Hello :). 19:15:14 jsmith: I used the free plan 19:15:16 anything new? 19:15:17 rbergeron: Hate to be a broken record, but not a lot to report. 19:15:35 clalance: that's okay. Just like to check in. 19:15:51 rbergeron: I'll build new packages into F-16 the week of Labor Day. 19:15:58 To get them in for the 9-13 beta deadline. 19:16:14 (and my packages that were stuck in testing have now been moved to the f-16 tag, so we are good there) 19:16:40 Development is of course ongoing. 19:16:42 And that's about it. 19:17:15 #info clalance will be building new aeolus packages into F16 during week of Labor Day (Sept. 5th-ish) to make the beta freeze deadline 19:17:21 Cool. Thank you :) 19:17:27 #topic HekaFS 19:17:28 rbergeron: You are welcome :). 19:17:33 kkeithley: your turn :) 19:18:14 if you're still about 19:18:17 that is 19:18:18 :) 19:18:26 yup 19:18:32 too fast for me 19:18:36 * rbergeron grins 19:18:46 jdarcy on PTO this week. 19:19:10 I've got rpms for latest upstream glusterfs in the updates-testing repo 19:19:24 still not sure if those need karma to get out of testing 19:19:39 #info rpms for latest upstream glusterfs in updates-testing repo 19:19:46 * rbergeron looks around for an answer to kkeithley's question 19:19:57 kkeithley: looks like they still need karma 19:20:11 pushed to testing 3 days ago, -0 karma 19:20:17 s/-0/0 19:20:25 that's 3.2.3 btw, and there's a hekafs for that 19:20:28 -0 == 0, so you're ok ;) 19:20:36 #info rpms still need karma, please feel free to apply love. 19:20:59 is there a decent walkthrough for setting up gluster or hekafs? 19:21:00 yeah, so ditto for hekafs rpm 19:21:11 * tflink is being lazy and hadn't looked but wants to try them out 19:21:24 I was going to ask the question as tflink 19:21:29 there is docs/mgmt--- something or other that tells how to set it up 19:21:35 the same question 19:21:51 kkeithley: you mean glusterfs docs or hekafs? 19:21:54 tflink: gluster has a lot of documentation on their website 19:21:54 and I'm rewriting my fedorapeople page about how to set it up 19:21:59 hekafs 19:22:10 hekafs doc on how to set it up 19:22:13 http://gluster.com/community/documentation/index.php/Main_Page#GlusterFS_Documentation 19:22:16 in the git tree, not in the rpm 19:22:44 #info kkeithley is working on hekafs documentation for how to setup/get running 19:22:51 ok, I've been trying to figure out what problems are solved by glusterfs but that is a question for google :) 19:22:59 yeah, but hekafs does things differently, so the gluster docs will only get you so far 19:23:21 kkeithley: yup, I just figured it would at least be a start for him :) 19:23:51 tflink: scalable, distributed, redundant storage 19:24:39 anyway, for my rewrite I figured I ought to start from scatch, and now was as good a time as any, so I reinstalled my dev machine with F15 (from F14), so right now I'm just trying to get back to where I was. 19:24:57 kkeithley: :) 19:25:28 alrighty. well, if you want anyone to "test" how well your documentation works, be sure to let us know :) 19:25:48 i'm sure there are a few folks who would be happy to give it a walkthrough 19:25:56 yep 19:25:59 kkeithley: can you pass that sparks or me when you get it written for the cloud guide? 19:26:08 yes 19:26:15 awesome 19:26:21 ke4qqq: I;m still trying to figure out more specifics than that but like I said, probably not a great question/discussion for here :) 19:26:22 sparks? 19:26:32 #action kkeithley to pass docs info by ke4qqq or sparks when it's ready, so it can be integrated into the cloud docs for f16 19:26:38 see jdarcy's hekafs.org blog 19:26:39 #fedora-cloud is good for that tflink 19:26:40 kkeithley: sparks is one of our fabulous docs contributors 19:27:24 he's working on having some comprehensive documentation covering a lot of the fedora cloud pieces for this release, AIUI 19:27:34 and i think ke4qqq may be helping him out 19:27:39 okay 19:28:12 ke4qqq: do you want to say a bit about what we're doing for documentation, or do you not know entirely? 19:28:53 we are just documenting what it is and how to use it really briefly. kind of a quick start for the cloudy stuff in fedora 19:28:56 * zoglesby notes that we are going to work on the cloud guide at OLF 19:29:09 ahh, excellent 19:29:57 #info Docs team is working on a Cloud Guide for F16 - mostly quickstart information for the cloudy projects in Fedora. Will be working on it some at Ohio Linux Fest in a few weekends. 19:30:09 zoglesby: thanks for the tip :) 19:30:09 Thanks! 19:30:26 * jsmith is trying to help out as well 19:30:32 And i'm sure they can use our help a bit, at least for pointers, so if you see anyone asking around on-list, helping them out would be fabulous. 19:30:46 #topic OpenStack packaging status 19:30:54 markmc: hi there. 19:30:58 #chair markmc 19:30:58 Current chairs: gholms jforbes markmc quaid rbergeron 19:31:05 I saw a fabulous update mail from you today. 19:31:05 rbergeron, hello hello :) 19:31:14 yeah, I think that about covers everything 19:31:21 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/cloud/2011-August/000764.html 19:31:21 kinda curious has anyone tried the packages? 19:31:23 Heh 19:31:37 I tried the packages until I found out that I had to shut off selinux. :( 19:31:51 gholms, yeah, we need to get that sorted 19:31:56 I'm a little surprised that there isn't a packaging guideline for that. 19:31:59 gholms, thanks for trying that far 19:32:04 * ke4qqq is sure we could get dwalsh to help out with that......and upstream would prolly be thrilled with a policy 19:32:30 #info nova package needs further review - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/707199 19:32:37 gholms, well, I suspect if package reviews bottleknecked on that, dwalsh would get a very hard time of it :) 19:32:52 ke4qqq, yep - I filed an selinux bug for glance and cc-ed dwalsh 19:33:08 rbergeron, right, openstack-nova needs review! 19:33:10 #info testing of openstack is problematic in terms of selinux policy - needs attention 19:33:18 but luckily, mdomsch is around to save the day :) 19:33:22 mdomsch, right ? :) 19:33:26 markmc: Still, writing a policy for something as complex as a cloud platform can be a lot of work. Best of luck! 19:33:35 * gholms is writing the policy for euca 19:33:38 #info selinux bug filed for glance, dwalsh is cc'd. 19:33:40 markmc: what can I help with? package review of the new combined pkg? 19:33:48 gholms: ;) you're a brave, brave, awesome man 19:33:48 mdomsch, that'd be awesome 19:34:01 yeah ok 19:34:04 gholms: Wow, best f luck. 19:34:11 gholms, yeah, I've forgotten so much about SELinux, I'd be starting from scratch 19:34:12 * clalance is brave, but not that brave 19:34:19 mdomsch, cool stuff 19:34:27 best *of* luck. 19:34:28 I thought the dozen or so subpackages was a bit overkill 19:34:28 markmc: are you thinking of taking the issue more upstream to talk about it more generally? 19:34:33 (my 'o' key apparently sticks now) 19:34:46 mdomsch, take a look at https://github.com/markmc/openstack-fedora-specs if you want to understand any changes I made 19:34:48 as ke4qqq suggested 19:34:54 mdomsch, I made the commit messages fairly detailed 19:35:12 clalance: you'd better not do the docs then! 19:35:13 rbergeron, perhaps, but I'm not sure how much upstream will care about SELinux 19:35:16 msavy: Haha. 19:35:39 rbergeron, I'll talk to dwalsh - e.g. I'm not sure these days whether the policy would go upstream to SELinux or modular policy in OpenStack itself 19:35:45 markmc: yup. 19:35:53 with some of the KVM stuff thats been talking about recently (eg jumping to a different ring) i imagine it's important. 19:36:15 ha - you forked mine - I had forked Mirantis 19:36:24 mdomsch, right :) 19:36:36 mdomsch, it's a pity the Mirantis guys have gone quiet 19:36:44 mdomsch, it would have been awesome for them to co-maintain 19:37:04 markmc - do you want tto copy the cloud-sig list in on that discussion with dwalsh? 19:37:06 * markmc got no response to his mail to them 19:37:13 rbergeron, sure 19:37:16 i think having a few different perspectives might be helpful there, ke4qqq seems to be the selinuxmastah 19:37:20 i should buy him a crown 19:37:24 or a pie 19:37:24 cool 19:37:49 * ke4qqq lol - certainly not. /me just admires selinux from a distance :) 19:37:52 #action markmc to take discussion of selinux policy w/dwalsh to cloud sig list, for others to pipe in on if they want 19:38:03 ke4qqq, how is swift coming along? 19:38:16 ke4qqq, I haven't actually played with it yet 19:38:21 I pushed 1.4.0 to F16 and rawhide 19:38:32 cool 19:38:36 later than that requires some of the auth stuff you were working on 19:38:46 #info swift 1.4.0 pushed to f16 and rawhide 19:38:56 * ke4qqq is really frustrated they are making major changes in 1.4.x (or what I view as major changes) 19:39:00 but such is life 19:39:13 ke4qqq: Yeah, I was surprised by that as well 19:39:20 ke4qqq, wonder could we add swift into the mix of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Getting_started_with_OpenStack_Nova 19:39:29 ke4qqq, or a similar getting started page 19:39:44 markmc: I am happy to help document. 19:39:47 hello 19:40:04 ke4qqq, cool 19:40:08 terminhell, hi; welcome 19:40:30 I guess the question is do we want to get 1.4.x in to f16 (if so there are some big changes afoot and I need to get that going soon) 19:40:53 .0 still had all of the account and auth stuff in swift itself (and had st as the binary name 19:40:56 ) 19:41:11 happy bday linux :) 19:41:12 ah, and 1.4.x uses keystone? 19:41:22 * markmc hasn't been following 19:41:47 markmc: yep 19:41:58 ke4qqq, that's no fun 19:42:06 markmc, do you feel openstack-nova.spec is in good enough shape that if review succeeds, app will run and work as expected? 19:42:07 ke4qqq, I doubt you want to get into that for F-16 19:42:29 mdomsch, to the level of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Getting_started_with_OpenStack_Nova at least, yes 19:42:44 markmc: I didn't really want to (and have honestly been dragging my feet - but at the same time, don't want to keep the latest greatness out either. 19:43:38 ke4qqq, yeah, but maybe getting it into rawhide is enough ? 19:43:39 do we want to decide now, or do you guys want to wait and see a bit? 19:43:52 * rbergeron wonders if any documentation-type stuff rides on the version decision 19:44:04 ke4qqq, dunno, depends on how many swift-on-fedora users you think there currently are 19:44:05 * rbergeron also throws a rock at her vpn 19:44:38 markmc: I have no feel for it. 19:45:01 i don't think any of us have a feel for it, unfortunately 19:45:21 though that probably means the number is lowish 19:45:34 ke4qqq, if you had keystone packaged soonish then, maybe just go for it in F-16 19:45:39 * markmc shrugs 19:45:53 if that screws any swift users, at least we'll know someone's using it :) 19:45:59 lol 19:46:19 yeah - /me thought yuo were packaging keystone :) 19:46:43 who needs tests? - there are users! :) 19:47:09 ke4qqq, could happen :) 19:47:20 mdomsch: so you're going to look at the nova review then? 19:47:32 rbergeron: sure 19:47:36 happy face 19:47:41 #action mdomsch (and anyone else kind) to look at nova review 19:48:18 #action markmc and ke4qqq to sort out the swift/keystone/versioning dilemma, one of them to package keystone, rock paper scissors or however they decide that. :) 19:48:35 markmc: thanks for all hte work you're picking up here, much appreciated. 19:48:48 rbergeron, thanks 19:48:49 thats rock, paper, scissors, cloud :) and cloud beats them all 19:48:53 markmc, what's this dep: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=733238 19:49:04 Please update to eventlet 0.9.16 19:49:16 ke4qqq: that's your new shirt, you know, the one i STILL DONT HAVE ONE OF 19:49:18 mdomsch, https://answers.launchpad.net/nova/+faq/1485 19:49:26 mdomsch, small fix that nova requires 19:49:35 mdomsch, soren patches ubuntu with it AFAIK 19:49:45 mdomsch, nova-volumes doesn't start without it, I think 19:49:47 .whoowns eventlet 19:49:48 mdomsch: No such package exists. 19:49:57 .whoowns python-eventlet 19:49:57 markmc: abbot 19:50:11 and keven fenzi AFAIR 19:50:20 ah, nirik. 19:50:39 right 19:50:39 * nirik looks up. wha? 19:50:47 nirik, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=733238 19:50:49 nirik: talking about python-eventlet 19:50:50 ah yeah. 19:50:58 I haven't gotten to updating that... but I can. 19:51:06 nirik, awesome :) 19:51:12 or if any of you guys want to co-maintain and do so, I'd be happy to have you 19:51:12 untouched by abbot in a year 19:51:28 nirik, happy to do it myself, either 19:51:39 #action nirik to update https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=733238 - dep for nova 19:51:40 markmc: feel free to apply in pkgdb and I will ack. 19:51:45 nirik, great 19:51:59 * nirik is happy to have co-maintainers. 19:52:07 +1 for comaintainers 19:52:07 #action markmc to comaintain python-eventlet, apply in pkgdb and nirik will ack 19:52:11 sweet, thanks guys :) 19:52:52 okay, anything else on the openstack front? 19:53:00 nirik, done 19:53:01 * rbergeron knows markmc put most of it in his previously-linked email 19:53:03 rbergeron, not from me, thanks 19:53:42 #info Thoughts/help welcomed on updating https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Getting_started_with_OpenStack_Nova .. possibly add swift to that documentation 19:53:45 okay 19:53:52 #topic BoxGrinder 19:53:59 yay! 19:54:01 #chair mgoldmann 19:54:01 Current chairs: gholms jforbes markmc mgoldmann quaid rbergeron 19:54:07 mgoldmann: sorry ;) your turn! 19:54:12 #chair msavy 19:54:13 Current chairs: gholms jforbes markmc mgoldmann msavy quaid rbergeron 19:54:17 msavy: wanna take it? 19:54:29 ah sure. 19:54:47 http://boxgrinder.org/blog/2011/08/26/boxgrinder-0-9-5-released/ 19:54:47 Thanks for sticking around on a friday night, guys (and you too, markmc) 19:55:01 rbergeron: especially mgoldmann and i. its completely dark outside :P! 19:55:08 (or anyone else in europe) 19:55:10 (and hot!) 19:55:59 the release is primarily bugfixes 19:56:26 including an error that was caused in the rebase before release of 0.9.4 19:56:37 #info New BG release is primarily bugfixes 19:56:41 but .. drumroll 19:56:56 mgoldmann has speedily introduced GRUB2 support 19:57:01 so we have F16 build support now 19:57:03 huzzah! 19:57:32 look on the blogpost for how to work around the current kernel issue to test it out on EC2 19:57:54 it seems that the kernel is NOW pushed to stable 19:58:01 being* 19:58:18 Yay 19:58:19 #info 0.9.5 adds support for Fedora 16 19:58:20 so, expect to have working F16 tomorrow or so 19:58:46 just wanted to thank mgoldmann and msavy for being very helpful in #boxgrinder 19:58:55 yw! 19:59:03 thanks! 19:59:12 #info GRUB2 is now supported in BG, so we have build support for F16 now 19:59:26 so, basically now we want to do some really cool stuff after 0.95 19:59:27 #info keep an eye out for blogpost on how to work around current kernel issue to test it on EC2 19:59:42 like... cloudstack support 19:59:52 and openstack too (glance) 20:00:09 woo 20:00:12 so, onward to 0.10 20:00:24 not sure if it makes into F16 - would be awesome 20:00:26 we'll try 20:00:33 a new boxgrinder meta release will be out that adds a few little extras, but remember the current releases auto-update themselves at boot. so once 0.9.5 hits stable you will get the latest release automatically with meta. 20:01:38 I think that's all 20:01:42 msavy: anything else? 20:01:49 #info BG planning on doing cloudstack and openstack glance support after 0.95 release 20:02:00 0.9.5 :) 20:02:09 #undo 20:02:09 Removing item from minutes: 20:02:19 ke4qqq --^ 20:02:25 0.95 is planned in 2023 20:02:25 #info BG planning on doing cloudstack and openstack glance support after 0.9.5 release 20:02:30 * ke4qqq is very happy about that 20:02:30 rofl 20:02:40 i assume you guys know where to go for assistance on cloudstack ;) it certainly seems like it 20:02:57 yep, we're in touch with ke4qqq 20:03:06 yes, we have some kind offers of a server to do test builds too 20:03:08 so many thanks for that 20:03:54 very cool. looking forward to seeing that stuff take shape. 20:04:18 that's it from me. glad rbergeron remembered this time :P! 20:04:28 hey, somedays my memory is on, what can i say :) 20:04:30 poor boxgrinder monkey felt left out last week 20:04:39 everyone at linuxcon loved your stickers, btw 20:04:51 i had to tell like 100 people what it was for ;) 20:05:04 ha :D awesome - thanks! 20:05:07 it is for grinding monkeys! 20:05:10 #topic Any Other Business? 20:05:13 * msavy wishes to clarify this is not the case 20:05:13 monkeys are tasty. 20:05:17 I MEAN 20:05:19 um 20:05:23 heh 20:05:23 ouch 20:05:23 * markmc has an urgent matter! 20:05:25 crap, my sekrit is out 20:05:28 markmc: yes? 20:05:37 no ops on #fedora-cloud, very sad! 20:05:40 taste like chicken 20:05:41 oh 20:05:46 jforbes: you can do that, can't you? 20:05:48 spot needs to type "/msg ChanServ access #fedora-cloud add markmc +voOtriRfAF" into his irc client 20:05:49 I can 20:05:54 Southern_Gentlem: 20:05:55 and repeat for a bunch of other people :) 20:05:57 uh 20:06:04 Southern_Gentlem: everything tastes like chicken 20:06:05 jforbes, not sure you can, if I understand the perms thing 20:06:17 I have ops, or can get it if I msg chanserv 20:06:21 markmc: he already has them 20:06:27 he just needs to tell the channel to hand them over 20:06:43 rbergeron, that doesn't give auto-op on join, though 20:06:51 need to tell ChanServ that 20:07:11 markmc, why is auto-op needed 20:07:11 and need " +f - Enables modification of channel access lists." 20:07:26 i think chanserv already does that for jforbes, he just never leaves, ever 20:07:27 and jforbes has "+votriA" 20:07:30 lol 20:07:46 Southern_Gentlem, because people come and go and should regain op on return? 20:07:53 anyway 20:07:58 that's my urgent matter :) 20:08:07 markmc, and freenode docs frown on auto ops 20:08:30 Southern_Gentlem, got a pointer? 20:08:42