14:00:37 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 12 14:00:37 2011 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:43 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:49 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
14:01:37 * jjmcd 
14:01:44 <pkovar> I'm here
14:02:56 <jjmcd> Was there beeping on docs?  I didn't hear any
14:03:36 <bcotton> jjmcd: no i should do that
14:03:41 <suehle> beep
14:04:28 * jjmcd just happened to look up at the clock at the right time
14:05:39 <bcotton> okay, now that my tea is done, i think we can get going on the agenda
14:05:53 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:06:20 <bcotton> Let's see. I took care of mine, which we'll talk about more in a few minutes
14:06:28 <bcotton> fnadge: are you around?
14:06:39 <fnadge> yup
14:06:55 <bcotton> how's the Style Guide coming along?
14:07:27 <fnadge> cgot the repo. Am now creating a book.
14:08:06 <bcotton> fnadge: excellent. Do you need any help, or are you going to get somethign in place before tossing it to the wolves?
14:09:06 <fnadge> No, I guess I am okay
14:09:10 <fnadge> Thanks
14:09:43 <bcotton> awesome. since it's now officially a work in progress, we'll just leave it for the Guide Status section instead of carrying forward the action item
14:10:00 * jhradilek sneaks in.
14:11:07 <bcotton> HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT JHRADILEK
14:11:20 <bcotton> #topic FUDcon Blacksburg
14:11:39 <jhradilek> :-D
14:11:43 <bcotton> #info every time you say FUDcon, a Southern_Gentlem gets his wings
14:11:50 <bcotton> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012
14:11:57 <bcotton> #info Docs is sponsoring two classes at FUDCon Blacksburg: Introduction to Docs and DocBookXML/Publican
14:12:24 <bcotton> jjmcd: are the classes coming along? i'm guessing sparks hasn't been able to contribute much lately
14:12:32 <jjmcd> actually
14:12:41 <jjmcd> my clone for my part is jsmith
14:12:48 <jjmcd> I have the prez I did at Milan
14:12:53 <bcotton> ah, well then there's no excuse :-)
14:12:55 <jjmcd> plan to fatten it up a bit
14:13:26 <jjmcd> Dunno if jsmith will be as good as jhradilek for a co-presenter, tho
14:14:16 <jhradilek> jjmcd: I am pretty sure nobody can be as nervous as me. :-)
14:14:24 <jjmcd> didn't show!
14:14:36 <jjmcd> I suspect Sparks has a tougher job
14:14:46 <jjmcd> His topic is a little more amorphous
14:16:34 <bcotton> okay, i'll check with him and see if he needs some help
14:17:14 <bcotton> #action bcotton to check in on sparks regarding his presentation for FUDcon Blacksburg
14:17:33 <bcotton> anything else on fudcon?
14:18:57 <bcotton> okay, we'll skip QA until next meeting and go straight to
14:18:58 <bcotton> Guide Status
14:19:01 <bcotton> #topic Guide Status
14:19:33 <jjmcd> ARG branched and published this past week
14:19:50 <bcotton> jjmcd: i saw that, great job!
14:21:34 <bcotton> anything else on guides?
14:22:54 <bcotton> #topic Bug Squashing Party
14:23:16 <bcotton> #info Bug Squashing Party Scheduled for December 15 at 2PM EST (1900 UTC)
14:23:33 <bcotton> i'll send a note to the list reminding everyone
14:23:47 <bcotton> #action bcotton to email docs list with a reminder about the party
14:24:15 <bcotton> bug squashers will need at least bugzilla access and preferably docs-writers, am i missing anything
14:26:38 <bcotton> #topic Open Floor discussion
14:26:45 <bcotton> i have something for this
14:26:59 <bcotton> i think
14:27:04 <bcotton> let me go back and look at my email first
14:28:10 <bcotton> yes okay
14:28:30 <bcotton> so on the ml, someone posted that they had started a quick install guide on the wiki
14:28:33 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Quick_Install_Guide
14:28:53 <bcotton> have we deprecated the Installation Quick Start Guide or are we competing with ourselves?
14:29:21 * LoKoMurdoK here late sorry
14:29:49 <jjmcd> I wonder whether the author was aware of the I!SG
14:29:55 <jjmcd> IQSG
14:30:19 <bcotton> i'm not sure, but i wanted to make sure i hadn't forgotten about axing it before I brought that up :-)
14:30:23 <pkovar> is  IQSG still maintained?
14:30:43 <bcotton> pkovar: it wasn't done for f16
14:30:53 <bcotton> or 15 apparently
14:31:01 <pkovar> so it's unmaintained :-)
14:31:06 <bcotton> yeah :-)
14:31:33 <bcotton> so i guess the question is: which is the better way forward for this content?
14:31:59 * jhradilek wanted to ask Rudi about the IQSG a while ago, but forgot to do so.
14:32:17 <jhradilek> I would be willing to maintain it.
14:32:23 <bcotton> given that we've seemed a little slow with guides that past release or two, i'm okay with letting the IQSG be a wiki page that could get more love
14:32:51 <bcotton> otoh, jhradilek has volunteered :-)
14:33:26 <jjmcd> I suspect first step is to see if info missing from IQSG is in wiki
14:34:09 <pkovar> fwiw, i'd talk to that wiki page author first
14:34:21 <pkovar> so the efforts are not duplicated
14:34:28 <jjmcd> Sounds like a good approach to me
14:35:15 <bcotton> okay, i'll compare the wiki and iqsg and talk to the wiki page author. then we'll go to the list to come up with a solution
14:35:22 <jhradilek> jjmcd: I can ask rudi/jreed tonight what are their intentions with the IQSG and then contact the guy who is working on the wiki and offer him my help.
14:35:34 <bcotton> #action bcotton to follow up on IQSG/wiki page
14:35:47 <jjmcd> jhradilek, Sounds like a good deal to me
14:36:19 <bcotton> #action jhradilek to contact rudi/jreed about the IQSG
14:36:22 <pkovar> excellent
14:36:36 <jhradilek> bcotton: Aye aye, captain!
14:37:05 <bcotton> oh man, jhradilek is feeding my ego. this is aobut to get out of hand
14:37:15 <bcotton> any other topics for open floor discussion?
14:37:21 <jjmcd> yes 2
14:37:28 <bcotton> go ahead, jjmcd
14:37:40 <jjmcd> 1) Both the IG and the SAG have Grub content inappropriate for F16
14:38:05 <jjmcd> 2) Someone on the wiki also suggested some docs on iptables.  Does that need to be in the SA guide?
14:38:11 <jhradilek> jjmcd: I am aware of the error in the SAG; just did not have the time to fix it.
14:38:20 <jjmcd> Ahhh cool
14:38:26 <jjmcd> Grub2 seems a huge change
14:38:28 <bcotton> jjmcd: are there bugs for 1?
14:38:37 <jjmcd> bcotton, no
14:38:39 <jhradilek> There is even a bug somewhere if anyone needs a Bugzilla number. :)
14:38:52 <jjmcd> I'm not sure I understand Grub2 well enough to compose a bug
14:38:59 <jjmcd> ahhh, ok
14:39:12 <jhradilek> You can clone mine, if you want. Wait a sec.
14:40:04 <jhradilek> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=752059
14:40:04 <bcotton> jjmcd: it might be worthwhile to open a bug for the IG just so we know it's there and find someone who can give us enough information to fix it
14:40:18 <jjmcd> bcotton, not a bad plan
14:40:45 <jjmcd> And it turns out there are some Grub2 utilities that prevent you needing to know as much as the old grub
14:40:56 <bcotton> well that's helpful
14:41:08 <jjmcd> But you need to know they're there
14:41:18 <bcotton> if we can't figure it out internally, then we can hunt down the package maintainer :-)
14:41:42 <jjmcd> The package database is a wonderful thing
14:41:57 <bcotton> as for your #2, if there's nothing in the SA guide about iptables, I think absorbing the recent work on the wiki would be a good idea
14:42:17 <jjmcd> It was a new contributor so perhaps with some mentoring ...
14:43:00 <bcotton> jjmcd: i like the way you think
14:43:22 <bcotton> jhradilek: you're the maintainer for the SA Guide, right?
14:43:26 <jjmcd> This week *MIGHT* turn out so I have the cycles
14:43:31 <jhradilek> bcotton: Yup.
14:44:42 <bcotton> do you and jjmcd want to work with the person who wrote the wiki page on iptables recently and work to get that incorporated into the SA Guide and provide some    mentoring, etc
14:45:02 <jjmcd> Yeah, let me see what I can do
14:45:13 <jhradilek> bcotton: Sure. Can you please give me the link to that wiki page? I need to read it. :)
14:45:23 <jjmcd> Prob is, this week is either full or empty, I don't yet know which
14:45:34 <bcotton> jjmcd: i love those kinds of weeks
14:45:54 <bcotton> jhradilek: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_talk:Rforlot
14:46:13 <jhradilek> bcotton: Cheers!
14:46:29 <bcotton> it's a little rough, and not quite named appropriately, but it's a good start and obviously an eager contributor
14:46:30 * jjmcd has one, maybe 2 trips to Farmington Hills, 120 miles away, and maybe a trip to Lansing, 100 miles, so I may spend the week driving
14:47:05 <jjmcd> (that's 190/160 km)
14:47:22 <bcotton> that sounds unpleasant
14:47:37 <bcotton> anything else for this meeting?
14:47:42 <jjmcd> Well, not THAT unpleasant ... got a Bose in the Porsche
14:47:47 <bcotton> heh
14:48:03 <jhradilek> bcotton: It's a good start, although it would require a whole lot of editing in order to fit to the SAG. :-)
14:48:48 <bcotton> what better way for him to learn his way around the docs process? :-)
14:49:03 <jjmcd> bcotton, exactly
14:49:12 <bcotton> last call for open floor discussion
14:49:33 <jhradilek> bcotton: Also, I know that Security Guide deals with iptables, although I am not sure if it is being released for Fedora as well.
14:50:03 <jjmcd> Oh yeah, good point
14:50:43 <bcotton> jhradilek: it is, but it'd probably be good to have at least some iptables discussion in the SAG, even if it's not as in-depth as in the sec guide
14:51:12 <jhradilek> bcotton: I agree.
14:51:34 <jjmcd> Things like iptables almost need a quick start AND complete guide like install
14:53:04 <jjmcd> jhradilek, perhaps some simple stuff in the SAG and a pointer to the SG
14:53:24 <jjmcd> or verse visa
14:54:29 <bcotton> okay, well it sounds like we've had a productive meeting.
14:54:33 <bcotton> not sure how that happened
14:54:39 <jhradilek> jjmcd: I vote for the basic stuff; a brief introduction to what iptables are and what is their purpose, how to list the current rules, how to set them on the command line, etc.
14:55:07 <jhradilek> Also, we should mention that there is system-config-firewall. :)
14:55:25 <bcotton> let's move the iptables discussion to the list or #fedora-docs so we can wrap this up :-)
14:55:32 <jjmcd> The SG badly needs some pictures
14:56:05 <bcotton> thanks everyone, i hope to see you all at the party on thursday
14:56:08 <bcotton> #endmeeting