18:05:59 #startmeeting Fedora Engineering "Open House" Meeting 18:05:59 Meeting started Thu Feb 23 18:05:59 2012 UTC. The chair is spot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:05:59 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:06:01 * spot gently pokes zodbot 18:06:30 * rbergeron hands spot a bigger stick 18:06:35 * nirik is here as well. 18:06:40 * CodeBlock is here 18:06:44 * threebean is here 18:06:46 * ianweller is here 18:06:47 * pingou is here 18:06:53 * jforbes is here 18:06:54 surprisingly -- just got out of a test 18:06:57 * mizmo__ here 18:07:02 is here 18:07:05 ianweller: how'd it go? ;) 18:07:11 it went /okay/ 18:07:27 #topic Who we are: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Engineering 18:07:38 is here 18:08:21 * abadger1999 here 18:08:25 okay, so i am having networking issues, i'm going to go get an ethernet cable. 18:09:55 testing 1 2 3 18:09:57 * dmalcolm is here 18:10:05 spot_: hi 18:10:17 okay, so hooray for bugs. 18:10:53 A friendly reminder to everyone here: We're using the standard IRC meeting protocol: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_IRC#Meeting_Protocol 18:11:05 so please, don't just jump in 18:11:22 First of all, thanks to everyone for coming out 18:11:41 There are a few reasons we're having this meeting today. 18:11:54 #1 We want to let people know that we exist and explain what we do. 18:12:18 #2 We want to talk about the big and small (well medium) projects we're going to be working on for the next year or so 18:13:02 here 18:13:02 Okay, so lets start with item #1 18:13:47 Basically, we are the division at Red Hat focused on doing full-time work on Fedora. 18:14:18 That doesn't mean there aren't other people who do a lot of Fedora stuff at Red Hat, or even that there aren't a few scattered folks doing full-time Fedora work who aren't on this team 18:14:27 But... in general, this is the case. 18:14:50 We do a wide range of stuff, including (but not limited to): 18:15:07 Kernel, Python, Infrastructure, Web Application Development, and Design/UX 18:15:27 All of the work we do is intended to be in complete sync and conjunction with the Fedora Community. 18:16:02 So, we're not trying to replace work that other people are doing, but rather, do some of the work that needs doing and requires specific expertise or is just not much fun. :) 18:16:31 I manage the team, and the full roster is available at the link in the topic. 18:16:47 I'm going to pause now for questions about the Fedora Engineering team. 18:17:05 18:17:20 ./~ ././ ./~ 18:17:21 ::crickets:: 18:17:30 Alrighty then. Lets get to the meat. :) 18:17:40 or meat substitute 18:18:08 #topic Fedora Engineering FY13 Plan - Overview - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Engineering/FY13_Plan 18:18:56 Over the next 12 months, there are two areas of focus for our team. 18:19:07 #1 is to grow the team to add a few new members 18:19:44 Most notably, a dedicated marketing lead for Fedora, a dedicated cloud lead for Fedora, and another Web Application Developer 18:20:10 I'm not going to discuss those openings right now, but if you have questions about them, feel free to email me. 18:20:33 #2 is to take on a number of technical projects 18:20:45 (which is probably what people are most interested in) 18:21:17 #topic Big Project #1 - AMQP Enablement 18:21:37 okay, one second while I tell the bot to trust me 18:22:27 anyways. 18:22:38 This is an old item, it was first proposed in 2009 18:23:20 The core concept here is that we have a lot of components in our Fedora Infrastructure and beyond 18:23:31 we want them all to be able to send messages whenever any sort of event occurs 18:23:42 and have those messages sent to a centralized bus 18:23:53 #chair spot_ 18:23:53 Current chairs: spot spot_ 18:23:57 Once that is in place, we can do all sorts of other nifty things. 18:24:01 #topic Big Project #1 - AMQP Enablement 18:24:18 Ralph Bean is leading this effort 18:24:22 * threebean waves 18:24:32 like all of these projects, this is in the very early phases 18:24:34 #addchair spot_ 18:24:57 but the intent is to review all components to identify where it makes sense to AMQP enable and where it doesn't 18:24:57 ? 18:24:59 * jwb shows up slightly late 18:25:10 rbergeron: go ahead 18:25:20 will the messaging sig be tackling the zeromq vs. rabbitmq vs. qpid decision as well? 18:25:30 ! 18:25:35 threebean: go ahead 18:25:54 rbergeron: yes. after discussions in #fedora-apps we're leaning towards zeromq. 18:26:19 rbergeron: but including qpid<->zeromq translation points at the edges (to talk with bugzilla for instance) 18:26:45 cool, thx 18:27:08 friendly reminder, if you're done with a question or a statement, please send "EOF". :) 18:27:12 EOF 18:27:16 eof ;) 18:27:22 okay. 18:27:36 As threebean mentioned, we're working with Red Hat to link bugzilla into this as well 18:27:52 they already had a plan to AMQP enable their bugzilla instance in the next year or so 18:28:45 #topic Big Project #2 - Bodhi 2.0 18:29:06 The project lead on this item is Luke Macken, which makes sense since he wrote Bodhi 1.0. :) 18:29:43 This is a rewrite of Bodhi, taking into consideration some of the major issues with the existing bodhi 1.0 deployment that were not easily addressable 18:30:05 The intent is to make the updates process simpler, easier to use, and more tester friendly 18:30:32 as well as working on items such as ensuring update consistency, automerging dependent updates into one unit 18:30:38 ? 18:30:43 dmalcolm: go ahead 18:31:05 please can it describe how to actually apply an update on the web page! 18:31:15 ! 18:31:19 lmacken: go ahead 18:31:20 dmalcolm: yes. 18:31:21 EOF 18:31:25 ? 18:31:25 :-P 18:31:29 smooge: go ahead 18:31:29 * decause here 18:31:32 * skvidal giggles 18:31:55 I had a question from a developer last week... what is bodhi? 18:32:14 smooge: admin.fp.o/updates/ 18:32:24 well, it is the web application tooling that we use to push updates out to Fedora releases 18:32:27 I am not sure what they meatn by it but beyond that link I couldn't explain it more than that. 18:32:28 EOF 18:32:39 and the backend behind it 18:32:50 EOF 18:33:02 I'm told it also has something to do with a donkey on a waffle, but I'm not sure about that. 18:33:48 If you have suggestions for improvements in Bodhi 2.0, please file a trac ticket against bodhi. 18:33:58 http://bodhi.fedorahosted.org -- against the 2.0 milestone, please :) 18:34:16 #topic Big Project #3 - Eucalyptus Sandbox 18:34:27 The project lead on this one is Seth Vidal. 18:34:39 * skvidal waves 18:35:03 ! 18:35:10 skvidal: go ahead 18:35:22 We have a fairly mushy test cluster setup on our junk boxes now 18:35:55 the goal is to have a production one outside of the phx2 wall-of-doom that will allow us to spin up resources for users 18:36:09 who need to test something/build something weird or what not 18:36:33 I'm targetting euca3 right now not 2.0X 18:37:03 we're going to run into some headwinds soon 18:37:23 getting the hw into the right place such that we can get the right network layout for exposing this to the world 18:37:42 but we started that conversation on tuesday and we'll see how it ends up 18:38:02 if anyone has lots of euca experience and wants to yell at me come by #fedora-admin 18:38:03 EOF 18:38:32 I think seth pretty well summed it up, if there are any general "what is this project" questions, please speak now. ;) 18:39:05 ... 18:39:19 #topic Big Picture #4 - Mailing List Improvement Application 18:39:29 When I say "big", I do mean big. 18:39:42 The project lead here is some poor fool. 18:39:45 I mean, me. 18:39:59 This is another idea we've had for a while now. 18:40:26 But the essence of it is this: We want to have a forum interface to mailing lists with the same consistent messages appearing in both 18:40:57 So that Fedorans who like forums can use them, and Fedorans who like mailing lists can use them, and both receive various benefits as a result. 18:41:19 There are some basic mockups and very sparse technical notes on the wiki page 18:41:32 ! 18:41:37 skvidal: go ahead 18:41:43 and a fair amount of discussion going on in #fedora-apps about that project 18:41:44 eof 18:41:52 ! 18:41:55 abadger1999: go ahead 18:42:12 skvidal, mizmo, and I talked about htis some yesterday 18:42:37 after we took a look at the status of mailman3 18:43:14 we're going to try to put together a proof of concept for a read-only archive view for pycon in two weeks 18:43:41 ? 18:43:47 talked to barry and he says the people that will be interested in that will be present there so there's a good chance we could have a positive impact on upstream development 18:44:15 Join us on #fedora-apps if you want to help out. 18:44:32 mostly planning/experiimenting and getting some new mockups generated right now. 18:44:34 EOF 18:44:40 dmalcolm: go ahead 18:44:42 * dmalcolm was going to ask: is this for mailman3? but it sounds like it will be 18:44:55 ? 18:45:02 ! 18:45:09 EOF 18:45:12 jwb: go ahead 18:45:37 so when we create this, we're going to take care to not break threading on the actual mailing lists and such, right? 18:45:49 please don't take my precious mailing lists away... 18:45:52 EOF 18:46:02 the intent is to have mailing lists act and look exactly the same as they do now 18:46:08 with some possible additional headers 18:46:18 dmalcolm: from the look I had at the mm3 release schedule and how the archiver code interacts with it, I'd like it to be.... but we'll see after pycon how close things really are. 18:46:29 tnx 18:46:34 skvidal: go ahead 18:47:10 this is in refer to dmalcolm's question - the advantage of doing this at the archiver is that if mm3 is stuck in perpetual-non-release - that the archiver bits can graft over to mm2 with some lifting 18:47:23 ultimately the msgs come out of mailman(any version) and go to the archiver 18:47:32 what the archiver does with them is entirely up to it 18:47:39 ! 18:47:53 what abadger1999 is targetting is "stuff them into a db of some kind - perhaps notmuch/xapian" and render them on a web page on demand 18:48:10 if mm3 does come - then it's great 18:48:25 but if it is doesn't, at least from what I've seen so far, it doesn't mean we've chased off down a blindalley 18:48:26 EOF 18:48:31 jbrooks: go ahead 18:49:02 It'd be cool if the arch allowed for some future stackoverflow-ish interface -- I've enjoyed Ask Fedora 18:49:04 EOF 18:49:25 ! 18:49:28 jbrooks: sure, thats definitely something we've thought about, but its probably not in the initial targets 18:49:39 mojavelinux: go ahead 18:50:10 I'd just like to say that JBoss also has a ton of lists and would absolutely be interested in helping in some way so that we get the same upgrade; there are resources I could point you to 18:50:35 eof 18:50:44 mojavelinux: that is good to know, please send me an email? :) 18:50:49 absolutely 18:50:50 eof 18:51:07 okay, moving on to the next big project 18:51:21 #topic Big Project #5 - Open Badges 18:51:32 Badges? We Don't Need No Stinkin Badges. 18:51:38 But actually, maybe we do. 18:51:49 The project lead on this is Ralph Bean 18:51:54 * threebean waves 18:52:03 ! 18:52:09 threebean: go ahead 18:52:42 The gist is that we want to encourage contributions and promote development in the fedora community 18:53:13 we're looking to mozilla's Open Badges API and infrastructure to issue fedora specific badges that people can display elsewhere 18:53:25 ? 18:53:44 also, host our own badges 'backpack' and display to show fedora-specific subcollections of badges for our own contributors 18:53:47 EOF 18:53:51 smooge: go ahead 18:53:52 ! 18:54:09 I am very interested in helping this and will be available as much as can be 18:54:29 eof 18:54:44 ! 18:54:48 we anticipate that there will be a lot of interest in coming up with ideas for badges as well as actually designing the badges 18:55:04 there are several intern positions that we have secured to help work on this as well 18:55:14 but we're definitely interested in community ideas 18:55:20 for example, here's one i've had for a while 18:55:30 You go to a Linux event where there is a Fedora booth 18:55:35 and we have a QR code 18:55:45 scan the code, get the "I met Fedora at SELF badge" 18:55:56 mojavelinux: go ahead 18:56:50 I just wanted to mention that Jono has been working on an accomplishments system. He doesn't seem to be interested in collaborating, but we could mine the discussions he's had just to pull out some ideas...just wanted to point at that as a reference 18:56:56 http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/21/ubuntu-accomplishments-demo/ 18:56:56 eof 18:57:16 mojavelinux: yep. we're aware of it, we've already tried to talk to him, but jono seems to think that community stops at Ubuntu. 18:57:25 we're a little more open. ;) 18:57:32 decause: go ahead 18:57:33 yep, openness ftw! 18:57:44 * abadger1999 notes that we've only got about 5 minutes left 18:58:12 FOSS@RIT is pumped for openbadges, and will be helping to fill some of those intern slots, and help threebean any way we can. 18:58:13 abadger1999: any chance we can run long and delay the inf meeting? 18:58:18 EOF 18:58:33 decause +1 ftw! 18:58:35 ! 18:58:40 nirik: go ahead 18:59:11 The infra meeting today will be at 21:00 UTC, and there is a f17Alpha readyness meeting at 20:00UTC... so we are ok continuing here until 20UTC 18:59:16 eof 18:59:28 nirik: Thanks! 18:59:30 nirik: thanks. :) 18:59:35 buonasera 19:00:00 #topic Big Project #6 - Maintenance of Existing Apps 19:00:10 The project lead here is Toshio Kuratomi 19:00:16 abadger1999: want to summarize it? 19:00:58 We've built up a lot of web applications over the years to service fedora needs. 19:01:33 But many of the people who drove those applications have moved on to other projects and don't have time to work on those applications anymore. 19:01:54 This has lead to a lot of things starting to bitrot. 19:02:25 The goal here is to get those web applications that we need healthy again in two ways: 19:02:45 1) Get them releasing again, merge patches, close bugs that have easy fixes, etc. 19:03:00 2) Get new maintainers to take responsibility for them. 19:03:18 I'll be directly on item #1. 19:03:30 *directly working 19:03:46 ? 19:03:50 skvidal: go ahead 19:04:12 and I'll be training people into #2... but I'll need volunteers who are interested. 19:04:13 eof 19:04:13 abadger1999: is there room to include deprecating apps as a task for someone wanting to contrinbute? 19:04:33 skvidal: There is a little bit. 19:04:44 specifically to coordinate with various parties to agree to nuke apps which are beyond their useful lifespan 19:04:46 EOF 19:05:14 things like smolt are not core to producing fedora. 19:05:41 I should point out that nothing will be silently nuked. 19:05:54 * skvidal agrees 19:05:55 so there's room to get agreement on whether the service it provides is still high value or not. 19:06:17 and if it isnt't high value figuring out whether to simply get rid of it or to try to move some of teh support burden elsewhere. 19:06:34 Okay, those are our big projects for FY13. I'm going to now talk about some smaller projects. 19:06:49 #topic Smaller Project #1 - More Fedora Apps as Games 19:06:55 (For smolt in particular, we have someone working on moving it out to openshift which will remove some of the admin support burden -- although much of the programming support burden will remain) 19:07:00 eof 19:07:13 In case you haven't seen http://community.dev.fedoraproject.org/tagger yet 19:07:22 Fedora Tagger is our first "game" app 19:07:30 I'd like to see more of these. 19:07:42 Best case: the "game" helps us accomplish a need in Fedora 19:08:05 But if not, I'd still be interested in some game type apps that the Fedora Community would like. 19:08:17 Got an idea? Please talk to me. :) 19:08:45 #topic Smaller Project #2: Statistics++ 19:08:52 The project lead here is Ian Weller 19:08:56 hai 19:08:59 ianweller: want to summarize it? 19:09:04 sure 19:09:43 basically the idea here is, after we get a lot of applications enabled to work with the messaging bus, we want to keep somewhere (in a database?) a lot of data that we can create useful reports with 19:10:01 and we want to make this data accessible to the entire community as well, so you don't have to be an infra guy to get at the data 19:10:21 (within the bounds of our privacy policy, of course) 19:10:32 i leave legal concerns up to spot_ ;) 19:11:04 but that's the basic idea there. it will probably be a web app that you can make queries against using some API. 19:11:09 eof 19:11:16 ? 19:11:20 rbergeron: go ahead 19:11:50 So what's going to happen with the ... Statistics *web* (not wiki) page that we currently have? 19:11:58 ! 19:12:04 ianweller: go ahead 19:12:13 rbergeron: as in the fedora community page? 19:12:18 yup. 19:12:28 it will probably be taken out back and dealt with 19:12:42 ? 19:12:51 and i will probably write something that isn't insane to do automated graphs and stuff 19:12:51 abadger1999: go ahead 19:12:52 ianweller: spot is training you well 19:12:55 EOF :) 19:13:01 EOF 19:13:18 My understanding is fedora community is going away soon (when we deploy tagger and packages). 19:13:20 ? 19:13:38 Is the plan that we're going to have a space of time where that statistics is just unavailable? 19:13:40 eof 19:13:45 ! 19:13:52 ianweller: go ahead 19:13:56 abadger1999: in my mind, yes 19:14:07 ! 19:14:12 abadger1999: we can also have a stopgap script that makes the same data and graphs available because it's not that difficult. 19:14:18 cron job + fedorapeople.org page = replacement 19:14:18 EOF 19:14:32 dmalcolm: go ahead 19:14:45 was going to ask for the URL, but it seems to be https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/#statistics 19:14:50 eof 19:14:53 rbergeron: go ahead 19:14:55 I assume we will still be able to get statistical data that we utilize on the fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics page, correct? or will those pieces be going away temporarily as well 19:15:01 ! 19:15:05 (infrastructure bits that cobble those together) 19:15:05 ianweller: go ahead 19:15:06 EOF 19:15:20 rbergeron: that won't be changing more than likely, even after we get this system set up with the message bus 19:15:33 so that will still be available i'm pretty sure 19:15:36 word 19:15:38 since you're just looking at standard httpd logs 19:15:40 EOF 19:15:44 err, !, word, EOF :) 19:16:19 #topic Smaller Project #3: Static Analysis 19:16:29 The project lead here is David Malcolm 19:16:33 dmalcolm: go ahead 19:16:43 I've written a static analysis tool ("gcc-with-cpychecker"), which adds new compilation warnings to GCC for the bugs that typically occur in Python extension modules 19:16:43 mostly focussing on memory leaks 19:16:56 I've been slowly working through everything in Fedora 17 that links against libpython, doing test rebuilds using gcc-with-cpychecker, filing bugs for the issues that it finds, and fixing bugs in the tool as I run into them. 19:17:05 The biggest win so far is finding some memory leaks in python's "rpm" module. 19:17:05 See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/StaticAnalysisOfPythonRefcounts#Current_status 19:17:05 If you want to help out, join #fedora-python 19:17:16 I'm also hoping to generalize gcc-with-cpychecker so that people can add their own compilation warnings for other commonly-used libraries (e.g. libc); help with this would be great! 19:17:18 eof 19:18:04 ? 19:18:08 smooge: go ahead 19:18:30 will this have applications to other Fedora build processes also? 19:19:15 smooge: my original hope was to replace gcc with my hacked up gcc, but it's not there yet 19:19:16 as in how much fo the build and web infrastructure can it be applied to 19:19:18 eof 19:19:20 autoqa perhaps 19:19:45 thanks 19:19:48 if you give me a list of target rpms, I can focus my energies on them 19:20:01 e.g. the TG stack? 19:20:10 email me if you have specfici requests here 19:20:16 specific even 19:20:24 EOF 19:20:38 #topic Smaller Project #4: Finish off Fedora Packages and Tagger 19:21:04 The plan is to close some of the remaining bugs, move these items to their new homes (and URLs). 19:21:12 and announce them as "final" 19:21:25 we're also going to look at integrating the search API into PackageKit 19:21:31 ! 19:21:41 as opposed to the "awesome" repodata search results 19:21:44 nirik: go ahead 19:21:56 I;ve allocated instances for these, we just need to do some puppet work and then testing to bring them live. ;) 19:22:01 happy to help work on that. 19:22:02 eof 19:22:04 ! 19:22:07 nirik: thanks. :) 19:22:09 abadger1999: go ahead 19:23:07 So by final -- do we just mean got phase 1 into production or end of feature development? :-) 19:23:58 Not a complete end of feature development, but we're not focusing on new features right now 19:24:09 I ask because when I was talking with mizmo and lmacken at fudcon... there were a lot of other things that we wanted to do. 19:24:41 abadger1999: yes, the plan is to document those additional items and see if we can get some help to pursue them 19:24:42 for instance, moving the whole appdb concept out of packagedb and into packages. 19:25:05 they're not completely off the table, but we're not going to wait to push to production for them 19:25:44 #topic Smaller Project #5: Improve Fedora Search 19:25:58 I wouldn't want to hold production on them but -- I want to make sure we aren't stopping feature development... otherwise we're maintaining 70% similar interfaces in two separate code bases. 19:26:05 The project lead here is Ricky Elrod. 19:26:08 hi there 19:26:14 abadger1999: definitely not stopping, just lowering priority. :) 19:26:43 CodeBlock: want to summarize this one? 19:27:12 So I've explored a lot of options (sent an email to the list about a week ago, outlining some of my results). We have one (dpsearch) that looks reasonable so far. We're in the process of deploying it to search-dev.fp.o, so expect that soonish 19:27:41 and we'll see how it goes. It was also my first ever official Fedora package, it's in epel-test now. 19:28:01 correction: sent an email to the infra list* 19:28:07 The plan here is to provide a better search of things like the wiki 19:28:21 ! 19:28:26 nirik: go ahead 19:28:56 The wiki is the prime motivator here (it's search is horrible)... but also index docs, website, mailing lists, etc... hopefully providing a easy and good way to search all fedora resources. 19:29:02 eof 19:29:23 Okay. Those are our Big and Smaller projects for FY13 19:29:32 #topic Additional Items 19:29:50 There are some other ideas and "todo" tasks that we do not plan to tackle this year 19:30:00 Calender 19:30:04 we mostly put them in the plan in case someone wanted some suggestions on what to work on 19:30:08 oops sorry 19:30:35 I'm not going to go over them, please look at the wiki page for the FY13_Plan. 19:30:46 ! 19:30:52 ianweller: go ahead 19:31:10 spot_: i don't think FY13_Plan is linked to from the main fedora engineering page on the wiki right now, and i don't know where it's best to put it 19:31:13 EOF 19:31:17 ! 19:31:24 ianweller: okay, i'll fix that after the meeting. 19:31:39 decause: go ahead 19:31:54 RE: Big Project #1: FOSS@RIT would be interested in organizing a FAD around this 19:32:38 decause: sounds good, perhaps you and threebean can come up with a proposal and we'll go from there 19:32:42 we're new to FAD's, we've done some initial research into how to go about setting one up, but would be nice to talk more with you folks 19:32:50 EOF 19:32:57 spot_: nod nod 19:33:02 #topic Questions, Comments, Suggestions - Open Floor 19:33:22 At this point in time, I'm opening the agenda for any questions comments or suggestions 19:33:41 ! 19:33:43 If there is something you think we should be doing, please feel free to speak up. :) 19:33:48 nirik: go ahead 19:33:50 I've not signed up to lead any of these efforts, but I am happy to (and 19:33:50 expect to) help out with them where I can. If anyone has infrastructure/Deployment 19:33:50 questions or needs resources, please let me know and I will try and remove any roadblocks you hit. 19:34:02 Also, I am planning a number of small infra tasks this coming year: 19:34:02 2 factor auth, reorg our staging setup, remove spof (0 downtime outages), and 19:34:02 the usual putting fires out or allocating new resources. Help welcome as always. 19:34:07 * nirik typed up beforehand. ;) 19:34:08 eof 19:34:14 nirik: thanks. :) 19:35:05 nothing? did we bore everyone to sleep? :) 19:35:12 ! 19:35:20 ianweller: go ahead 19:35:46 since i'm waiting on the message bus stuff for statistics i'm working on general fedora things until then 19:36:01 so if anybody has something they want to throw at me i have a wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Projects 19:36:26 * ianweller goes back to sleep 19:36:26 EOF 19:36:36 Last call for comments and questions 19:36:44 ! 19:36:48 idea: xteddy enhancements 19:36:51 decause: go ahead 19:36:53 +1 19:37:27 just wanna say I appreciate the open meeting, and the IRC ettiquette. Very cool to see you folks inviting the community. 19:37:30 EOF 19:37:40 +1 xteddy 19:37:51 decause: you're welcome! :) 19:38:07 I will point out that some of these projects will also have their own IRC meetings 19:38:09 * nirik notes you could add your badges to a xteddy display to show them. ;) 19:38:28 if you're interested in that, please mention it to the project leads 19:39:01