22:04:32 #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-03-07 22:04:32 Meeting started Wed Mar 7 22:04:32 2012 UTC. The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 22:04:32 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 22:04:39 #meetingname famsco 22:04:39 The meeting name has been set to 'famsco' 22:04:56 #chair cwickert herlo, kaio_ph, zoltanh721 22:04:56 Current chairs: cwickert herlo kaio_ph zoltanh721 22:05:07 more FAmSCo members in the house? 22:06:37 good night guysm thanks cwickert the meeting.bye 22:06:45 RGeri77: welcome 22:06:59 #info only four FAmSCo members present: cwickert, herlo, kaio_ph and herlo 22:07:07 #info no regrets from the other members 22:07:51 herlo, kaio_ph: are you actually around? 22:07:57 zoltanh721: are you still here? 22:07:59 yes 22:08:03 .fas kaio.net 22:08:04 hi 22:08:04 kaio_ph: kaio 'Caius Chance (かいお)' 22:08:12 .fas zoltanh721 22:08:13 zoltanh721: zoltanh721 'Hoppár Zoltán' 22:08:17 .fas herlo 22:08:18 herlo: herlo 'Clint Savage' 22:08:23 #topic Roll Call 22:08:27 .fas cwickert 22:08:27 cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' 22:08:30 * kaio_ph was taking pic on cats using the phone. 22:08:31 lol 22:08:44 * shaiton Kévin Raymond 22:08:49 ok, 4 people means we have a quorum 22:09:13 lets jump into the agenda 22:09:15 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9 22:09:32 #topic Swag shipping improvements 22:09:33 .famsco 250 22:09:33 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/250 22:10:25 did you bring this up in your local communties? 22:10:36 I wrote to the list but received no response 22:10:56 and I didn't have the time to bring it up in the EMEA IRC meeting 22:11:05 because as you have just seen we ran out of time 22:11:31 zoltanh721: I see you commented on the ticket 22:11:40 cwickert: yes 22:11:48 but you are again speaking about production rather than shipping 22:11:57 or did I misunderstand you? 22:12:00 cwickert: I did not, but inode0 brought it up in NA. You see several comments from the swag wranglers in NA that the system we have works. 22:14:00 zoltanh721: ? 22:14:01 cwickert: no, you did not misunderstand me 22:14:10 cwickert: just forgot to add 22:15:05 cwickert: I think - shipping can be solved as I said earlier if we make it toghether with the media 22:15:56 cwickert: I know that the wrangler option is not the best idea - but I don't have better yet 22:16:12 cwickert: eof 22:16:47 hi igorps 22:16:55 ok, so where are we now? 22:17:03 hello, all 22:17:10 * yn1v is here to! 22:17:21 we have not received any feedback from the people who complained 22:17:30 cwickert: I think the real question I have is how do we help the regions with this information? Clearly there are some good ideas here. 22:17:32 #chair igorps yn1v 22:17:32 Current chairs: cwickert herlo igorps kaio_ph yn1v zoltanh721 22:17:57 #info igorps and yn1v have joined the meeting, only gbraad is missing 22:18:12 herlo: are there? 22:19:16 I talked to gbraad recently. He is sorting out some personal issues and getting there hopefully. 22:19:32 ok, cool 22:19:41 anything else on the actual topic? 22:19:56 cwickert: I thought I saw some, let me double-check 22:20:12 ok, lets try something new today 22:20:34 cwickert: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/250#comment:12 <- inode0 provided this one 22:20:41 He has updated from mailing lists and trac. 22:21:09 cwickert: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/250#comment:14 <- zoltanh721 provided this one 22:21:23 ok, but I don't see that as a real improvement 22:21:27 I didn't say they were perfect, just suggestions 22:21:40 I mean, inode0 just described what works in NA 22:21:54 this is good but I am not sure it works elsewhere 22:21:57 cwickert: right, which has worked for some time. It's a good idea and other regions could use it 22:22:44 cwickert: maybe not. I am getting the sense that this is really a regional issue. FAmSCo could help with budget and standards of swag, but delivery and distribution seem to be a local problem. 22:22:46 herlo: agreed, but how can we actually make the regions use it? it all depends on the people 22:23:07 ok 22:23:17 not only on people, there a different context 22:23:19 cwickert: I don't think we *make* anyone use the scheme, rather it's a set of recommendations for getting started. 22:23:20 lets make it different 22:23:30 yes, let's 22:23:39 can somebody else run the meeting for me? I have been in meetings for nearly 4 hours without a break 22:23:56 I will not leave, I just don't want to be the 'leader' of this meeting 22:24:25 not only we have borders and customs to overcome, there are countries where paypal it is not an option to reimburse import taxes 22:25:23 yn1v: ++ 22:25:34 As herlo said we can't enforce anything here, only recommend what have been working well in certain situations 22:25:47 but I agree, let's try this model and make adjustments as requiered by context 22:26:27 which is why I suggested a wiki page or something that has a good set of 'what works' for certain regions 22:27:44 herlo, +1. I believe this is the more appropriated approach, indeed. 22:28:05 yn1v: are you taking over for cwickert as vice chair? 22:28:45 I was waiting if some one volunteer before, but ... I will take over 22:29:04 There is anything else on this topic? 22:29:46 #info herlo suggested a wiki page with recommendations for swag wrangling, possible good idea 22:30:07 what is the advantage over a trac ticket? 22:30:09 Theres is anything to said about improving budget and reimbursement? 22:30:24 that is a different ticket 22:30:38 back to swag 22:30:46 I agree with herlo ... we can write a procedure tha is working as a model for other to adapt 22:31:00 cwickert: I think the advantage over trac is that the wiki is more visible 22:31:29 Even in the wiki we can point to which trac go to request swag 22:31:32 and we can let any ambassador add to it over time. it really is something that most ambassadors could contribute good ideas to 22:31:39 yn1v: right! 22:32:07 yn1v: +1 22:32:22 Depending on the number on the comments the ticket can look a little messy as well 22:32:34 useful information will be hard to find 22:33:11 igorps: yes, that is my attitude as well. 22:34:01 Shall we try with a wiki as art of an ongoing effort? 22:34:28 probably will requiere pushing people with blog post and mailing list, regional meetings. 22:34:30 in addition, I think we could make comments about how to get reimbursed or what not on the page (I know it is a different ticket) for each region. 22:34:42 yn1v: yes, indeed it would require those things. 22:35:05 I'm pretty sure we can get a good bit of suggestions from currently successful wranglers. 22:35:21 I can write the LATAM part of that wiki page 22:35:36 herlo: +1 22:35:45 and as it grows, we'll have a good set of basic recommendations, and then ones particular to a region. 22:35:48 As I see it we will end mixing swag and reimbursement ... one stop for info requiered by ambassadors 22:35:58 yn1v: +1 on that 22:36:03 not sure if this is the time for mixing both topics 22:36:20 yeah, maybe this is not a good idea 22:36:29 let's keep it simple 22:36:33 not the better time 22:36:47 I think both problems are related 22:36:53 agreed 22:37:00 but there is no reason to discuss them together 22:37:35 cwickert: I was only suggesting that the solution to both *may* fit there. I am happy to discuss that separately as well :) 22:37:36 I mean, nobody wants to ship swag, if he doesn't get reimbursed, but that does not mean that we nee to discuss these two things in one 22:37:52 +1 22:37:54 in fact, maybe it's time to move to that issue? 22:38:05 herlo: sorry, I was disconnected, I didn't get what you suggested 22:38:15 cwickert: no worries. We'll get there :) 22:38:58 do we agree on start a wiki age for swag best working practices? 22:39:11 yn1v: yes, I do 22:39:18 votes? 22:39:18 I can start it 22:39:46 yn1v: yes +1 22:40:02 +1 22:40:11 +1 22:40:48 that's 4 22:41:13 #action herlo will write a wiki page with best swag working practices 22:41:51 Theres is anything to said about improving budget and reimbursement? 22:42:39 no news 22:42:41 or do we move to new election rules? 22:43:01 I have reviewed the trac plugin 22:43:14 but it's not yet built and installed on fedorahosted 22:43:28 rbergeron and me keep working on the new trac 22:43:30 the budget pluging? 22:43:37 yes, 22:43:56 https://fedorahosted.org/draftbudget/ 22:44:23 but other than that there is not much progress 22:44:41 we haven't heared back from harish on the 2013 numbers 22:45:08 I mean, all we know is the rough estimate he gave us 22:45:10 * yn1v has a work related call ... will be away for ten minutes or so 22:45:19 but it was not yet confirmed by red hat 22:45:59 cwickert, any idea of when it will be confirmed? 22:46:12 of couse not :) 22:46:21 I mean, I don't work for Red Hat 22:46:26 ask rbergeron or harish 22:47:01 We already are on a new fiscal year, this should happen soon 22:47:12 I would guess in the next month or two 22:47:25 it should have happened a month ago already 22:47:28 but it's completely a guess. when spevack did it, we usually knew by april 22:47:34 er march 22:47:48 but theoretically speaking we don't have any money 22:47:58 but I understand that Harish and the gang are in a different timeline so we'll see when it gets here. 22:48:22 cwickert: yeah, I would just assume that we have what we had q1 last year and adjust when the new budget appears 22:48:39 but I don't know how smart that is 22:48:48 there is nothing else we can do 22:49:04 #action cwickert to nag harish about confirming the budget 22:49:12 anything more we can do? 22:49:33 * cwickert takes over again as yn1v is afk 22:49:42 #topic New FAmSco election rules 22:49:44 #action famsco to nag harish about confirming the budget 22:49:50 :) 22:49:55 #undo 22:49:55 Removing item from minutes: 22:50:19 no news about the election rules, I just didn't have the time to rephrase them 22:50:33 so lets move on to a really important topic 22:50:42 #topic FUDCon bids 2012 22:50:49 .fasco 258 22:51:36 .famsco 258 22:51:36 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/258 22:51:38 #info FUDCon APAC will take place at Kuala Lumpur May 18th - 20th 2012 22:51:48 thanks herlo 22:51:50 np 22:51:55 and now for the EMEA one 22:52:04 shaiton, zoltanh721: are you still here? 22:52:07 yes 22:52:07 yes 22:52:11 nice 22:52:32 the person who answers first will get the FUDCon ;) 22:52:43 lol 22:52:54 c'mon :) 22:53:00 s/get/get fudcon return tikec/ 22:53:05 ticket* 22:53:08 just kidding, that was draw anyway 22:53:10 I wish it was that simple! :) 22:53:20 we could throw a coin 22:53:48 I think we need to further discuss this on the fudcon planning list 22:54:01 +1 22:54:03 +1 22:54:05 +1 22:54:06 and I want us to make a recommendation from a more global point of view 22:54:20 I mean, we as FAmSco should take things into account like 22:54:43 - how expensive is it for the people from our local community to get to the FUDCon 22:55:01 or what are the visa requirements for our people 22:55:16 the EMEA community will make a decision based on an European PoV 22:55:18 * rbergeron waves 22:55:25 but we should act more globally 22:55:35 +1 22:55:49 zoltanh721: this being said: please update your wiki page with flight information 22:55:54 cwickert: FYI, i think harish wrote somewhere to assume at least the same numbers as last year 22:55:55 cwickert: could we have such series of 22:56:09 rbergeron: yeah, but I want that confirmed 22:56:12 that that was what was essentially a "yes" at this point, all that's being sorted out right now is the "more" 22:57:07 ok 22:57:23 did everybody read the two bids? 22:57:24 rbergeron: haha, that's what I suggested earlier too :) 22:57:35 I mean, lets face it: Zurich is out 22:57:42 cwickert: I have not looked yet at the bids, want to provide the links? 22:57:51 cwickert: I'll update 22:57:52 sure 22:58:01 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:EMEA_2012_Bid_Budapest 22:58:08 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Paris_2012 22:58:15 it's all in the ticket ;) 22:58:26 ok, take a moment to read the pages 22:58:48 cwickert: which ticket? 258? 22:58:53 that was the last one linked 23:00:49 Budapest bid really needs more information about travel costs 23:01:35 the Paris bid seems to be competing with OWF. Which I know has been done before, just not very successfully, imo. 23:01:44 +1 23:01:48 ! 23:01:56 that is my biggest concern, too 23:02:03 cwickert: which 23:02:10 shaiton: just speak up, we don't use the meeting protocol here 23:02:11 ! 23:02:12 that would be only one day, which could be hackfest not barcamp. But I agree. 23:02:13 ok 23:02:19 herlo: that it conflicts 23:02:25 Yeah, I was going to say that there's not *that* much overlap 23:02:31 but shaiton beat me to it 23:02:32 cwickert: okay, wasn't sure if it was the lack of info 23:02:33 it depends 23:02:47 jsmith: shaiton: it appears from the description that they overlap by two+ days 23:02:54 jsmith: there will be one day of overlap if we do Sat - Mon 23:03:03 and two days if we do Fri - Sun 23:03:12 herlo, I have updated that… should have miss some part. my bad. checking 23:03:14 and I would very much prefer Fri - Sun 23:03:19 shaiton: It's first day would be OWF only, we would then have both events for tow days, and finish with the last FUDCon day (on Sunday). 23:03:25 because having the Monday is PITA, too 23:03:25 that's what concerend me 23:03:47 it's possible we could suggest not having it in the same venue as owf 23:03:49 herlo, new plan is Sunday--Monday 23:04:04 shaiton: okay. Will review again soon 23:04:24 shaiton: you mean Saturday - Monday, right? 23:04:45 Saturday-Sunday-Monday 23:04:50 yes :) 23:04:50 the concern I just noticed with budapest is it is only two days? 23:04:51 sorry 23:04:56 I am very skeptic about Monday 23:05:00 I know that most people are worried about attendees getting distracted with OWF, but I don't see the problem if it's done right. 23:05:26 how to do it right? 23:05:34 igorps: ^^ what cwickert said 23:05:50 we held the first FUDCon in LATAM in the same venue as FISL and it was fine. I don't know if it would work for OWF, tough. 23:06:24 igorps: my experience was in conjunction with RH Summit and FUDCon seemed to have lost on the days that were combined. 23:06:26 We reserved a separated rooms in other part of the venue and it was a good idea 23:06:37 igorps: what does it mean it worked fine? I mean, how many FISL visitors showed up at FUDCon? 23:06:54 but OWF is a separate entity altogether, so it could work. I'm not discounting it, just asking questions. 23:06:58 * yn1v is back 23:07:08 RH Summit is lots of Red Hat ;) 23:07:32 there we will have Perl mongers, python hackers, C devels… 23:07:46 not projects centric 23:07:50 sounds like we need to think upon this stuff for another bit of time? 23:07:57 Well, guys - we could offer for everyone cheap circumstaces, and we believe that with Brno devs we could offer good times 23:08:09 we had a lot of talks with full rooms, be managed to benefit from FISL audience, and people did not distracted with other things 23:08:23 I know that we haven't updated at some points, but I have the numbers 23:08:25 zoltanh721: lets stick with paris for a moment, we'll get to your bid in a few 23:08:29 ok 23:08:47 * herlo needs to leave in about 7 minutes 23:08:51 igorps, basically we would have several rooms reserved 23:09:16 we had this at FUDCon Berlin with LinuxTag. There were a few people who showed up on FUDCon, but on the other hand we lost a lot of 23:09:24 Fedora Contributors 23:09:36 and I think one contributor counts more than 5 visitors 23:09:55 The major issue actually, Is that we don't have approval for using the Auditorium on last 2 days, currently in discussions (should do it for free, instead of 5000€/day) 23:10:13 wow, that is a lot 23:10:15 that's a lot 23:10:17 If you are doing together with other event the important thing is to separate clearly what is OWF and what is FUDCon in the venue 23:10:25 I mean, that is basically half of the budget 23:10:57 yes, and this is the Region of Paris which will do that for us, in their marketing team:D 23:11:04 FOSS in Paris, wohooo 23:11:05 igorps: we had it separated at LinuxTag, it was in another building 500 meters away, but still it did not work out 23:11:07 shaiton: that is a big detail. Is there a way it could be in your bid? 23:11:19 I had to give talks on LinuxTag while I wanted to attend FUDCOn 23:11:35 herlo, it is. In Warn. 23:11:45 shaiton: ahh, I missed it, i guess. Thanks 23:12:01 no prob, I am adding the "auditorium" key 23:12:07 shaiton: hold on 23:12:24 what is the problem here? we cannot get it or it is expensive? 23:12:56 We don't want to pay for it :) So we are discussing to have it for free 23:13:13 we should have the answer soon, we have some clues 23:13:13 cwickert, at FISL the FUDCon talks were on the main event track, so things were synced 23:13:54 but we can set a vote deadline, if we don't have this answer by that time, we will feel sorry but that's the game 23:13:59 shaiton, yeah, that's a major issue for us to make a recommendation so please keep us updated 23:14:09 yes 23:14:32 shaiton: I will not pay 10k for an auditorium, sorry 23:14:44 but lets move on 23:14:45 I have never asked for. 23:14:56 but they have asked you :) 23:15:01 :) 23:15:10 let me summariz 23:15:11 e 23:15:24 I think everybody likes the french bid 23:15:33 but there are some concerns 23:15:48 let's set a deadline for it, if they can get a answer in time ok, if not we move on 23:15:49 1. timing/overlap with OWF 23:16:01 2. costs for the venue 23:16:06 did I forget something? 23:16:20 Don't think so 23:16:23 ok 23:16:28 I'll add that on the page 23:16:32 * herlo likes the budapest bid, personally. However, it doesn't have enough time/information to help it compete on a level playing field. 23:16:52 of course, on that note. I have to go :) 23:17:13 #info FAmSCo is overall very happy with the French bid but has 2 major concerns: the timing and the overlap with OWF and the costs for the venue which could be up to 10k EUR 23:17:13 I feel the same way herlo does about budapest 23:17:21 ok, and now to Budapest 23:17:30 I agree it lacks information 23:17:45 I will update it asap tomorrow 23:17:59 but one thing I really like especially after attending RH developer conference is that is so close to Brno 23:18:06 because the guys in Brno really rock 23:18:16 and they are very enthusiastic about Fedora 23:18:25 so we could get plenty of skilled people 23:18:43 I have talked about this with Jiri, and Jreznik - they want support us 23:19:42 They want to bring down to BUD all the people, lot of HU guys are working there too 23:19:47 zoltanh721: everything seems to be cheao in Hungary, but the hotel is kind of expensive compares to this 23:20:03 * cwickert can no longer type 23:20:31 zoltanh721, probably you can find cheaper ones? (4 stars, I know, that should be amazing ^^) 23:21:32 the hotel can be cheaper - there are alternatives, but this is an tourist place so in the innercity where is more the sightseeing possibilty 23:21:41 it's a bit more expensiver 23:21:57 zoltanh721: I only see one hotel there, or only numbers for one hotel 23:22:00 but we'll try our best and find the good combination 23:22:08 and that is 60 EUR per night per person 23:22:10 right? 23:22:27 that's 120 for a double, even Paris is cheaper 23:22:53 damn typo 23:22:54 are there some places close to the venue *and* close to the city *and* cheap? 23:23:04 my is demanding the impossible ;) 23:23:12 * cwickert is demanding the impossible ;) 23:23:25 well... 23:24:03 there are but the event places are not next to each other 23:24:17 and you have to walk more 23:24:22 speaking of the event places 23:24:33 what about the venue? 23:24:43 do you already have one? 23:25:02 I mean, you list several opportunities 23:25:43 Yes, there are - the University of BME 23:25:57 one of the biggest university 23:26:08 * shaiton like huge uni :) 23:26:21 sadly we could have it for money - around 2500 EUR 23:26:41 per day or for all 3 days? 23:26:52 alltogether 23:27:05 fully eqipped 23:27:18 ok 23:27:26 please add this to the wiki page, too 23:27:36 what about the alternative location? 23:27:45 as alternative - there is the Golden Ten 23:28:29 but this is not an school - else an educational center 23:29:06 the prise here is cca. 1800 EUR 23:29:18 depending on what we need 23:29:34 eg. the stage is more expensiver 23:29:35 ok, again, this needs to be on the wiki 23:29:51 basically all the numbers need to be in there 23:30:09 FAmSCo is responsible for budget so we need to know how expensive this will be 23:30:31 I would like to see an estimation of total costs as well 23:30:57 ok - I'll do an full calculation 23:31:11 and put onto the wiki 23:31:44 zoltanh721, thanks, just for us to get an idea of how much it is needed 23:32:08 #info FAmSCo likes the Budapest bid, too, but it lacks a lot of information 23:32:36 * igorps needs to leave in 5 min 23:32:38 #action zoltanh721 to update the Budapest bid wiki page with numbers on budget and other details 23:32:50 I think that's all for FUDcon now 23:32:57 should we agree on a deadline? 23:33:10 any deadline? (not fixed but to get an idea) 23:33:14 say, revisit this next week and then make a final decision? 23:33:16 * shaiton too slow 23:33:24 ok 23:33:31 ok 23:33:42 cwickert, +1 for the deadline, but I don't believe we have a quorum anymore 23:33:51 shaiton: will you be able to sort out the questions by next week? 23:33:58 we can make 2 weeks if you like 23:34:05 cwickert, ok for two weeks 23:34:06 thanks 23:34:13 zoltanh721: ok for you? 23:34:18 yes 23:34:25 sounds good 23:34:35 zoltanh721: I really want you to get in touch with the people and ask, not just update the wiki page 23:34:41 ok 23:35:26 #info FAmSCo will revisit the topic next week. final deadline for a decision is in two weeks from now, that is 2012-03-21 23:35:49 ok, can we end this meeting now? 23:36:16 there are more things on our agenda, but we are late already and I really need to go to bed 23:36:35 5 hours of IRC meetings is just too much... 23:36:36 cwickert, +1 23:36:56 we could update the new tickets in trac, then it is easier next week 23:37:28 cwickert, feel free to wrap it up and let's keep in touch on track 23:38:49 #action: all FAmSCo members to go through the new tickets on https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9 in track by next week 23:39:20 igorps: do we want to talk about the Chile disks? 23:39:33 I mean, is it urgent? 23:40:08 cwickert, yn1v wants to know the opinion of Harish 23:40:22 cwickert, I do think it is a bit expensive 23:40:37 but I don't believe this is urgent 23:41:03 I agree it is expensive 23:41:16 on the other hand I don't know how things work in LATAM 23:41:33 I mean, we spend like 2800 EUR for the whole EMEA region 23:41:49 and then 2800 USD for a single country seems a lot 23:41:58 based on the media we produced for Brazil it is expensive anyway 23:42:06 I see 23:42:11 I'll add my comments on the ticket 23:42:15 ok, more on that next week 23:42:30 * cwickert will end the meeting in 2 minutes if nobody speaks up 23:42:33 cwickert, ok, thanks 23:44:38 #endmeeting