15:04:45 <jreznik> #startmeeting kde-sig -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2012-04-03
15:04:45 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Apr  3 15:04:45 2012 UTC.  The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:04:45 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:04:53 <jreznik> #meetingname kde-sig
15:04:53 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:05:01 <jreznik> #topic Roll Call
15:05:11 * jreznik thinks he's here
15:05:34 <Kevin_Kofler> Present.
15:05:43 * rnovacek is here
15:06:10 <rdieter> here
15:06:11 * ltinkl is here
15:06:23 * than is here
15:07:13 <jreznik> #chair Kevin_Kofler rnovacek rdieter ltinkl than
15:07:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler jreznik ltinkl rdieter rnovacek than
15:07:23 <jreznik> #info Kevin_Kofler jreznik ltinkl rdieter rnovacek than present
15:08:26 <jreznik> #topic Agenda
15:08:49 <jreznik> so far kde 482, qt 481 and qt 5, test day and qt-at-spi, anything else?
15:09:25 <Kevin_Kofler> ksecrets fiasco? colord-kde? print-manager?
15:09:37 <Kevin_Kofler> (Looks like a lot of topics though…)
15:09:50 <rdieter> what is there to discuss for each of those particular?
15:09:51 <jreznik> aaaah :)
15:10:09 <jreznik> it's more "we got it" - so a few minutes for all
15:10:11 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: add it
15:10:18 <rdieter> ksecrets was already pulled from our default install, colord-kde is packaged (consider installing by default?), print-manager... not released or packaged yet
15:11:23 <jreznik> #topic Quick status updates
15:11:31 <jreznik> #info ksecrets was already pulled from our default install
15:11:56 <jreznik> colord-kde is packaged but not unpushed from f16, waiting for new colord
15:12:25 <rdieter> jreznik: is colord-kde in comps yet
15:12:27 <rdieter> ?
15:12:32 <jreznik> not sure about default install - what it will drag (colord only?)
15:12:34 <jreznik> rdieter: not yet
15:12:37 <Kevin_Kofler> So, do we want to add it to the default F17 install, when it goes stable?
15:12:40 <jreznik> and it's still initial version
15:12:42 <rdieter> put it in as optional at least
15:12:47 <jreznik> rdieter: ok
15:13:02 <Kevin_Kofler> I'd vote for default, if it actually works.
15:13:08 <Kevin_Kofler> If it's like ksecrets, then no thanks. ;-)
15:13:12 <jreznik> #action jreznik to put colord-kde to comps (optional for now)
15:13:34 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: optional - it's still missing most of functionality (needed from color mgmt tool) and compared to gnome one
15:13:57 <jreznik> #info colord-kde packaged for f16 (waiting for a new colord) and f17
15:14:12 <jreznik> what about print-manager?
15:14:32 <Kevin_Kofler> (re colord-kde still) I'd argue that some functionality is better than none.
15:14:58 <Kevin_Kofler> About print-manager, we should package it with the aim of replacing the almost universally hated s-c-p-kde in F18.
15:15:09 * jreznik can take care
15:16:14 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm definitely for print-manager by default in F18 (not F17 of course, it's too late!).
15:17:03 <ltinkl> +1
15:17:36 <rdieter> one step at a time, let's get it packaged, and tested first.
15:18:14 <jreznik> rdieter: +1
15:18:15 <rdieter> and if it rocks, then decide whether to make it default
15:18:46 <jreznik> #action jreznik to package print-manager, testing later, goal for f18
15:19:05 <jreznik> #infoto decide if we will make print-manager default later
15:20:20 <rdieter> and, dantti will have our eternal gratitude
15:20:31 <jreznik> #info to decide if we will make print-manager default later
15:20:33 <jreznik> rdieter: :)
15:20:52 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes, we'll need to have test results before making a final decision on the default.
15:20:56 <Kevin_Kofler> But I hope it will work out.
15:21:01 <jreznik> ok
15:21:33 <jreznik> rdieter: for qt-at-spi - could you send it for review, I can maintain it then - we need it for automated testing, reported to work well with dogtail
15:21:42 <rdieter> jreznik: ok
15:22:27 <jreznik> #action rdieter to send qt-at-spi for review
15:22:32 <jreznik> #action jreznik to review it :)
15:22:37 <jreznik> rdieter: add me to CC
15:22:41 <jreznik> thanks
15:23:08 <jreznik> back to agenda... any other quick update?
15:23:22 <jreznik> rekonq 0.9.1 is already built
15:23:43 <jreznik> #topic kde 4.8.2
15:24:38 <jreznik> anyone working on that respins?
15:25:22 <rdieter> our packaging already includes all the patches, but ... kdepim-runtime, kde-workspace are the latest respins
15:25:31 <rdieter> I can do those too
15:25:41 <ltinkl> rdieter: I can do them if you want after the meeting
15:25:54 <rdieter> ltinkl: ok, go ahead
15:26:10 <rdieter> ltinkl: gimme the NVR's when they're built, and I'll add to kde-testing and bodhi
15:26:18 <ltinkl> rdieter: sure thing :)
15:26:39 <jreznik> I think we have follow the rule to respin even we have patches
15:26:54 <rdieter> otherwise, it's all in bodhi, waiting to be queue'd
15:27:08 <rdieter> and in kde-testing, got a bunch of good feedback already
15:27:35 <jreznik> #action ltinkl to respin kdepim-runtime and kde-workspace
15:27:48 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes, upstream asks us to always use the respun tarballs so old ones aren't accidentally redistributed by somebody.
15:27:50 <jreznik> #info kde 4.8.2 waiting in bodhi to be queued
15:28:27 <rdieter> agreed, I only mentioned that to highlight that our current packaging shouldn't exhibit the bugs
15:28:34 <jreznik> #info the official announcement will be out tmrw afternoon (probably)
15:28:55 <jreznik> anything else for 4.8.2?
15:29:15 <jreznik> #info 4.8.2 in kde-testing, receiving good feedback so far
15:29:42 <jreznik> #topic Qt 4.8.1
15:30:19 <rdieter> is qt-4.8.1-5 all built for f16/f17 too by now?
15:30:29 * rdieter checks... yes
15:30:37 <jreznik> it's done
15:30:49 <rdieter> ok, had that -4 in kde-testing and bodhi too, will update for -5
15:30:54 <jreznik> rdieter: thanks
15:31:10 <jreznik> #action rdieter to update -4 in kde-testing and bodhi
15:31:34 <jreznik> it's fix for Calligra (me hit the crash too), quite annoying one
15:32:20 <jreznik> I think it's all for 4.8.1, so let's skip to 5 :)
15:32:41 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes, move on.
15:32:48 <jreznik> #topic Qt 5 alpha
15:33:05 <jreznik> #info Qt 5 alpha released today as one monolithic tarball
15:33:19 <jreznik> s/5/5.0
15:33:24 <jreznik> #link http://releases.qt-project.org/qt5.0/alpha/
15:34:00 <Kevin_Kofler> So Sho_ said that there currently isn't any support for theming or platform integration through plugins in current Qt 5, that really sucks. :-(
15:34:21 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: I heard it from quassel guys too
15:34:48 <jreznik> which tarball do we prefer? xz? to match it kde?
15:34:54 <rdieter> xz++
15:34:57 <Kevin_Kofler> If upstream doesn't fix that soon, it's going to suck a lot.
15:35:11 <Kevin_Kofler> Tarball: definitely xz.
15:36:32 <jreznik> #info we will use xz format
15:36:38 <rdieter> heliocastro offerred packaging help, definitely take him up on that. :)
15:36:47 <jreznik> rdieter: yep :)
15:37:01 <jreznik> but I expect the monolithic one should be easier to package
15:37:14 * jreznik already started working on modularized ones...
15:37:31 <jreznik> so the questio is - how to the final qt 5 will look...
15:38:01 <rdieter> hard to tell ... yet.
15:38:27 <jreznik> yep, but just we should be prepared :) I'll take a look and try to get more info
15:39:04 <Kevin_Kofler> There's really no way to tell… "Open" governance hasn't really changed anything, they still manage to surprise us all the time.
15:39:09 <jreznik> for now, we will go with qt5 package name, I agree with Kevin_Kofler to rename qt->qt4 once qt5 once it's default
15:39:29 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: at least you can get sometimes some hints on mailing lists
15:40:07 <jreznik> my observation is - they don't know what they want and how to do it and upstream is still trying to organize itself
15:40:21 <jreznik> it's a huge project and huge change
15:42:21 <jreznik> anything else? I'll start on qt 5 tmrw (I already have a working build for presentations :D)
15:42:36 <jreznik> #action jreznik to start on qt 5 packaging
15:42:42 <Kevin_Kofler> Nothing else from me…
15:42:58 <jreznik> #topic Test Day
15:43:32 <jreznik> in our long way to being default distro, we have to participate more in Fedora processes :) so let's have a Test Day
15:43:43 <jreznik> s/distro/desktop
15:44:03 <Kevin_Kofler> Let's see what will come out of this.
15:44:13 <rdieter> regardless of the motivation, a test day is a good idea.  so first off, when is it again?
15:44:43 <Kevin_Kofler> I hope we'll be able to respond to the reports efficiently.
15:44:48 <jreznik> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE48
15:44:53 <rdieter> and should arrange to have as many kde-sig'ers present to offer feedback and guidance as possible
15:45:01 <jreznik> ah, sorry wrong link
15:45:15 <jreznik> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2012-04-10_KDE_4.8
15:45:22 <jreznik> rdieter: +1
15:45:29 <rdieter> ok, got ourselves a week.
15:45:44 <jreznik> #info to have as many kde-sig'ers present to offer feedback and guidance
15:45:54 <rdieter> so, in a perfect world, we'd have qt-4.8.1/kde-4.8.2 stable, and a fresh live image to test by then.  can we pull all that off?
15:46:39 <jreznik> it really depends on topic - there are unattended test days, there are attended testdays (but maintainers/devels don't  care), I'd like to have well attended and be responsible :)
15:46:53 <jreznik> rdieter: yep, would be great to have 4.8.2 image
15:46:59 <jreznik> nightly?
15:47:00 * rdieter will be there, as time/time-zone allows
15:47:34 * jreznik will cover the morning (our morning)
15:48:02 * ltinkl will be there for sure too
15:48:10 <jreznik> please think about test cases
15:48:14 <ltinkl> the question is, what testcases do we want to present?
15:48:16 <ltinkl> :D
15:48:37 <jreznik> gdm integration, desktop effects... what else? basic desktop usecases... maybe calligra, kdepim?
15:50:01 <jreznik> anything else? feel free to edit wiki (just ping me about it)
15:50:32 <Kevin_Kofler> Artwork (KDM/KSplash themes in particular).
15:50:35 <rdieter> that's enough for now, was about to mention apper, but that's not really well testable with a live image
15:50:40 <ltinkl> I was thinking rather about basic desktop usage patterns
15:50:42 <Kevin_Kofler> There have been glitches in that in the past.
15:51:05 <rdieter> ltinkl: example?
15:51:33 <ltinkl> rdieter: device notifier (mount usb disk, audio cd), nm applet (connect to an ap
15:51:36 <ltinkl> etc...
15:51:38 <jreznik> #topic proposed test cases - gdm integration, desktop effects, calligra, kdepim, apper, KDM/KSplash themes, basic desktop usage patterns
15:51:44 * ltinkl pressed enter too soon
15:51:58 <jreznik> ltinkl: could you prepare these once as you're (S)solid guy
15:52:04 <ltinkl> jreznik: sure
15:52:07 <jreznik> based on the bug reports
15:52:25 <jreznik> + power management (like the brightness in dual head etc.)
15:52:37 <ltinkl> and also desktop manipulation (add a few widgets, change wallpaper, revert back to default, install plasmoids from the net), etc... :)
15:52:43 <ltinkl> jreznik: ye that too
15:52:52 <jreznik> great
15:52:57 <rdieter> ok, that's good, doubleplus good
15:53:19 <jreznik> it's a lot of stuff and we have only one week...
15:53:29 <Kevin_Kofler> One testcase: Try the KDM theme, is it free of glitches such as cut text?
15:53:30 <jreznik> but I think it's worth trying it
15:53:56 <ltinkl> I'd like to see those tests in like 5 groups at most (basic desktop, hw integration, PM, essential apps)
15:54:40 <jreznik> ltinkl: we want to test especially new features (or stuff we enabled recently)
15:54:44 <ltinkl> jreznik: I'll try to come up with a few testcases
15:54:45 <rdieter> ooo, probably should throw in testing of kde-telepathy in there somewhere (ie, essential app)
15:54:48 <jreznik> but also this generic test could help us
15:54:57 <ltinkl> rdieter: yes!
15:54:58 <jreznik> rdieter: good idea
15:55:12 <ltinkl> rdieter: if we're to replace kopete
15:55:18 <jreznik> ltinkl, rdieter: could you take care of these?
15:55:28 * jreznik will take care of theming
15:55:33 <ltinkl> k
15:55:35 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: for you - the gdm integration?
15:56:03 <jreznik> and desktop effects probably together (glitches, crashes, slowness)
15:56:09 <Kevin_Kofler> Uhm, yes, I think I already wrote up how to test that somewhere…
15:56:17 <Kevin_Kofler> I need to find it or rewrite it from memory.
15:56:33 <Kevin_Kofler> (Fairly simple anyway.)
15:56:38 <jreznik> thanks
15:56:48 <ltinkl> jreznik: should the testcases be separate pages or just inline at the test day page?
15:56:52 <Kevin_Kofler> BTW, is user switching expected to work now?
15:56:52 <jreznik> #action Kevin_Kofler to take care about GDM integration test cases
15:57:09 <ltinkl> Kevin_Kofler: with gdm or in general?
15:57:11 <jreznik> ltinkl: not sure, we will see how many we have, I'll ask QA guys
15:57:14 <Kevin_Kofler> With GDM.
15:57:23 <Kevin_Kofler> If it's still broken even in GNOME, I can't really test my code.
15:57:33 <ltinkl> Kevin_Kofler: test and see :)
15:57:35 <Kevin_Kofler> If it's broken only in my code, I need to figure out a way to fix it.
15:57:52 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: I can test it after meeting
15:57:52 <ltinkl> conduct your internal testday first :p
15:58:03 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: OK, thanks. :-)
15:58:37 <jreznik> ok, we made this meeting :) it looked impossible to go through the all topics in agenda!
15:58:54 <ltinkl> btw, one last note
15:58:58 <jreznik> anything else? I'll try to coordinate the Test Day effort, so...
15:59:01 <jreznik> ltinkl: go on
15:59:04 <ltinkl> from thiago wrt Qt5 packaging: +Lukáš Tinkl: we hadn't tested packaging until now, so we found that we didn't have time to create the multiple packages in time for the alpha. It will hopefully happen for the beta.
15:59:49 <rdieter> icky
16:00:00 <Kevin_Kofler> Uhm, we skipped qt-at-spi…
16:00:16 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: no, it was in that huge status updates topics
16:00:25 <Kevin_Kofler> OK. Not much to discuss there anyway.
16:00:27 <jreznik> I asked rdieter to send his spec for review
16:00:42 <rdieter> .bug 809530
16:00:44 <rdieter> btw ^^
16:00:44 <zodbot> rdieter: Bug 809530 Review Request: qt-at-spi - Qt plugin that bridges Qt's accessibility API to AT-SPI2 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=809530
16:00:46 <jreznik> but then it could be nice topic for next meeting - automated tests...
16:01:23 <Kevin_Kofler> So I think that's all for today, indeed…
16:01:52 <jreznik> ok, thanks guys! a productive meeting today
16:01:59 <jreznik> #endmeeting