18:00:14 <smooge> #startmeeting Infrastructure [2012-06-07]
18:00:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 28 18:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:25 <smooge> #meetingname infrastructure
18:00:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure'
18:00:39 <smooge> #topic Robot Roll Call
18:00:41 * pingou 
18:00:45 * skvidal is here
18:00:54 * relrod here
18:02:03 <smooge> My apologies for not emailing out an agenda. We will use the last one.
18:02:20 <smooge> abadger1999, threebean are you around?
18:02:33 <abadger1999> si, señor
18:03:23 <smooge> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks.
18:03:31 <smooge> ok any new people for this meeting.
18:03:57 <smooge> <chirp> <chirp>
18:04:07 <smooge> alright then.. we can work on the next issue:
18:04:10 <smooge> #topic Applications status / discussion
18:04:32 <smooge> I am guessing that threebean lmacken are at summit so not much from then.
18:04:45 <pingou> there is a pkgwat from threebean
18:04:52 <pingou> cli from the packages webapp
18:04:58 <pingou> s/from/for/
18:05:09 <smooge> I haven't gotten to that email.. what does it do?
18:05:11 <pingou> https://github.com/ralphbean/pkgwat
18:05:45 * relrod doesn't have much of an update on the fedorahosted app but the CLI has been updated to use optparse instead of argparse after skvidal showed me that I'm an idiot for using argparse ;) (ok he said it much nicer than that)
18:05:57 <skvidal> I never said idiot!
18:06:15 <skvidal> I only said argparse is not obviously available on rhel6
18:06:32 <smooge> remember relrod he sometimes uses the word mron and means mricon
18:06:36 <pingou> python-argparse-1.2.1-2.el6.noarch
18:06:41 <skvidal> pingou: from epel, iirc
18:06:41 <pingou> it is, as a separate package
18:06:49 <skvidal> pingou: and bringing that in as a dep
18:06:52 <skvidal> for a server app
18:06:56 <skvidal> needs a lot of justification
18:06:57 <skvidal> imo
18:07:02 <skvidal> b/c what he was writing
18:07:03 * relrod agrees, just didn't know
18:07:08 <skvidal> he was going to need to put it on EVERY server
18:07:16 <skvidal> which is, imo, not a good trade off
18:07:22 <pingou> (yup for epel)
18:07:29 <skvidal> especially when optparser is there
18:07:33 <skvidal> and it works just fine
18:07:56 <skvidal> the "benefits" of argparse are not incredibly obvious
18:08:12 <skvidal> and it is CLEAR to me that optparser is not going away anytime soon
18:08:38 * relrod agrees. Again I just didn't know ;)
18:08:40 <pingou> fair enough
18:08:47 * pingou was curious
18:09:12 <smooge> ok.. cool from all accounts
18:09:28 <skvidal> I have no problem with argparse - I only have an issue with extra, external deps
18:09:29 <smooge> ianweller, you around ?
18:10:12 <sdrfed17> hi team, sdrfed17 here for the meeting
18:10:17 <pingou> relrod: you were testing the latest fas right ?
18:10:23 <relrod> skvidal: sorry I didn't mean to have to make you defend what you said. I was just trying to joke around above. You made a good point, I just thought (because of the whole "I installed this locally and forgot" thing) that it was widely available on rhel6 and/or a default
18:10:56 <skvidal> relrod: no problem - I'm used to havving to defend myself. It's why I carry a +20 shield of arrogance w/me at all times
18:11:27 <smooge> it also doubles as a +20 shield of agrolance
18:11:33 <relrod> pingou: I was testing whatever is on fas01.dev, but I haven't done too much with it lately. Mostly I just needed a test ground for the fedorahosted app
18:12:01 <pingou> relrod: ok, I was wondering about the status of the pending patches from the trac
18:12:38 <relrod> pingou: the one I applied/abadger1999 linked to seems to be working I think.
18:12:55 <pingou> ok thanks :)
18:13:44 <abadger1999> relrod: were you thinking of managing the other patches and a release?
18:13:52 <abadger1999> relrod: Or want me to move that back to my todo?
18:14:17 <relrod> abadger1999: Yeah, I can do that.
18:14:23 <abadger1999> Cool.
18:14:43 <abadger1999> Other app news: I started compiling a list of all of our web applications: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Services_Survey  threebean and relrod added some more things to it.  If you know of more, feel free to add.
18:15:46 <abadger1999> I'll also be sending that out to the list as part of a message about what we can do to alleviate the maintenance burden for coding on apps.
18:15:54 <abadger1999> (Right after the meeting)
18:16:36 * pingou puts old TG1 -
18:16:37 <smooge> oi.. can we add any other frameworks in there? say a perl and a java one
18:16:43 * pingou puts old TG1 -> TG1 for mm on his todo
18:18:19 <abadger1999> smooge: We could deploy bugzilla and jboss :-)
18:18:32 <abadger1999> If you want.  If you really really want.
18:18:59 <relrod> pingou: well before we do that, we should probably decide which frameworks we're going to stick with. I think abadger1999 mentioned possibly using flask for mirrormanager(?)
18:19:03 <skvidal> do we have any clojure or maybe haskell webapps?
18:19:06 <skvidal> let's do that
18:19:33 <relrod> skvidal: and RoR and Scala too!
18:19:37 <skvidal> relrod: no
18:19:39 <skvidal> no ruby at all
18:19:42 <pingou> skvidal: C++ cgi ? :)
18:19:43 <skvidal> relrod: just out of spite to you :)
18:19:46 <skvidal> pingou: asm
18:19:51 <pingou> oh yeah!
18:20:18 <smooge> ok any other items on this or have we mined the bottoms yet?
18:20:27 <clockfort> I know rossdylan (intern under threebean) has been updating parts of pyramid to avoid a dependency-hell problem he encountered while trying to upgrade pyramid
18:20:27 <pingou> relrod: mm needs to move to SA I think anyway, and converting it to genshi/mako shouldn't be a big problem
18:20:46 <clockfort> something about all of its dependencies requiring different versions of webob
18:20:49 * abadger1999 has no more serious comments for here.
18:20:51 <rossdylan> Hi, sorry about that, had a errand
18:21:11 <smooge> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items
18:21:18 <skvidal> abadger1999: so I think I like your suggestion
18:21:18 <relrod> pingou: *shrug* I just would hate to see you waste time if we decide to do away with tg1
18:21:31 <skvidal> abadger1999: you made before - of having a lightweight and a heavierweight framework
18:21:47 <skvidal> abadger1999: for apps which require less interface pizazz - flask
18:22:03 <skvidal> for ones that require more bells and whistles $Turbogears/Moksha/etc-of-the-month
18:22:05 <pingou> relrod: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=mirrormanager;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/tg2merge too late :)
18:23:25 <abadger1999> skvidal: Yeah.  I think that makes more sense than what we have now.
18:23:41 <skvidal> abadger1999: if we figure mm requires less on the interface side... then flask might be a lightweight place to get simple user input collected and stuffed into a db
18:23:53 <skvidal> since, afaict, mm doesn't require much in the display world
18:24:07 <pingou> it for sure has lots of logic behind the scene
18:24:14 <abadger1999> yep.
18:24:18 <pingou> flask maybe an option for it
18:24:36 <abadger1999> A lot of the mm magic is done outside of hte web ui process.
18:24:46 <pingou> but the move from SO to SA would already help to convert to flask or TG2 or... imho
18:24:52 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:25:02 <abadger1999> Yeah, it would be great to move it off of SO.
18:25:16 <abadger1999> no matter what framework we move to.
18:25:29 <abadger1999> And everything but django seems to support SA so it's a good choice :-)
18:25:57 <abadger1999> (Even django with some hacks)
18:26:51 <skvidal> okay - sorry I took us off in the weeds a bit
18:27:14 <smooge> SO SA?
18:27:19 <skvidal> sqlobject
18:27:21 <skvidal> sql alchemy
18:27:25 <smooge> thankyou
18:27:40 <smooge> ok back to the agenda?
18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-06-21 to 2012-07-04 Kevin is off on trains and boats.
18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-06-26 Fedora 15 end of life.
18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-06-28 Seth at jury duty.
18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-07-02 remove people with pkgdb bugzilla issues.
18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-07-05 nag fi-apprentices
18:27:59 <smooge> #info 2012-07-12 drop inactive apprentices.
18:28:01 <smooge> #info 2012-08-07 to 2012-08-21 F18 Alpha Freeze
18:28:03 <smooge> #info 2012-08-21 F18 Alpha release.
18:28:03 <skvidal> so
18:28:05 <smooge> Seth?
18:28:07 <skvidal> I got out of jury dury!
18:28:09 <skvidal> err duty
18:28:22 <skvidal> they said "don't need you!"
18:28:57 <smooge> ok cool
18:29:07 <skvidal> that was all
18:29:15 <abadger1999> Are we removing people w/ pkgdb bugzilla issues on that date still?  Or waiting for nirik/fesco for the go ahead?
18:29:52 <smooge> I think we should wait for nirik/fesco
18:30:14 <skvidal> that way
18:30:16 <skvidal> if it goes wrong
18:30:19 <skvidal> we can blame him
18:30:20 <skvidal> :)
18:30:22 <smooge> #info Move pkgdb bugzilla to after nirik fesco are done.
18:30:26 <skvidal> :)
18:30:36 <smooge> #info 2012-07-10 move epel list to Fedoraproject lists
18:31:45 <smooge> So F15 eol'd earlier this week. We will do the moving to archives next month?
18:33:01 <smooge> Ok I will add that then
18:33:15 <smooge> anything else in upcoming items?
18:33:33 <smooge> #topic FAD
18:33:54 <smooge> ok relrod I still need to add my info to that page. I am sorry
18:34:18 <pingou> there are two pages which are a little bit out of sync iirc
18:34:25 <smooge> ah ok what are they
18:34:44 <pingou> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Infrastructure_Security_2012 and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Infrastructure_Security_2012/attendees
18:35:03 <pingou> locations don't match on the two page
18:35:04 <pingou> +s
18:35:10 <abadger1999> relrod: Maybe it would also be helpful to identify who we must have at the FAD.
18:35:38 <abadger1999> then structure things like date and location around where they can be.
18:35:57 <skvidal> seeing as denver will soon be engulfed in flames
18:36:06 <skvidal> 1. I suspect flying in there will soon be very cheap
18:36:13 <skvidal> 2. but hotel rooms might be hard to come by
18:36:45 * skvidal is not being silly
18:36:49 <skvidal> nor flippant
18:36:54 <skvidal> I'm actually serious
18:37:00 <skvidal> the number of refugees from the fires
18:37:06 <skvidal> will limit hotel room availability
18:37:19 <relrod> hm
18:37:35 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:38:10 <relrod> abadger1999: everyone seems pretty much really open on dates though, I haven't seen that be an issue yet
18:38:49 <skvidal> I have one issue
18:38:52 <skvidal> I am adding it now
18:39:24 <smooge> relrod, could you include one page into the other so they are 'consolidated'
18:39:32 <skvidal> datewise - early sept is becoming closed out for me
18:39:57 <pingou> sept is harvest time :)
18:40:04 <relrod> smooge: I can add a link from one to the other and vice versa, sure
18:40:12 <skvidal> pingou: hah  sept is prime vacation time for me
18:40:20 <skvidal> pingou: all the people with kids have left the nice vacation-y places
18:40:21 <pingou> skvidal: me to :)
18:40:30 <skvidal> pingou: so I can enjoy and not deal with families
18:40:45 <pingou> skvidal: in the countryard, with lots of wineyard :)
18:40:54 <skvidal> pingou: heh
18:41:29 <smooge> so we have a FAD in September at the Outer Banks. Seems legit
18:41:48 <skvidal> oooo
18:41:50 <skvidal> we could rent one house
18:41:57 <skvidal> and everyone could get a separate room
18:42:02 <skvidal> hackfests on the big deck outside
18:42:10 <skvidal> overlooking the ocean
18:42:13 <skvidal> sounds like a winner
18:42:16 <relrod> hah
18:42:34 * abadger1999 suddenly cannot imagine a hackfest any other way :-)
18:42:50 <pingou> where can we sign ? :)
18:43:33 <smooge> we can only do this during hurricane season though...
18:43:39 <skvidal> well duh
18:43:44 <skvidal> that's where the pressure comes from
18:43:55 <skvidal> specifically a massive high-pressure system ;)
18:43:56 <pingou> "I've got to finish this before the power goes out"
18:44:10 <skvidal> pingou: s/power goes out/the house is scourged from the earth/
18:45:07 <skvidal> smooge: sorry for taking things off in the weeds
18:45:16 <smooge> you can't leave until these things are decided. Sorry no evac til its tg2 or pyramid
18:45:30 <smooge> ok well I think we will just go to the last thing and close it out.
18:45:39 <smooge> #topic Open Floor
18:46:01 <smooge> Ok next week we have a US holiday in the middle of the week.
18:46:10 <smooge> So don't expect much on July 4th from people
18:47:09 <skvidal> and as another point to that
18:47:13 <skvidal> don't break anything, either
18:47:18 <skvidal> :)
18:47:29 <pingou> "with great power..."
18:47:37 <relrod> skvidal: but breaking things is fun! :(
18:47:49 <skvidal> pingou: nice
18:48:29 <skvidal> smooge: anything else?
18:48:47 <smooge> no
18:48:52 <skvidal> cool
18:48:57 <smooge> #endmeeting