05:01:50 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
05:01:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 12 05:01:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:01:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:01:54 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
05:01:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:01:59 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
05:02:12 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2012-07-12
05:02:17 <anish__> hi
05:02:21 <epico> hi
05:02:26 <juhp> brb
05:02:27 <tagoh_> okay, time to have i18n meeting now!
05:03:09 <pravins> hi
05:03:14 <tagoh_> please feel free to update the agenda if you have something else
05:03:20 <paragan> hi
05:03:23 <tagoh_> hi guys
05:03:31 <fujiwarat> hi
05:05:25 <tagoh_> okay, let's get started then.
05:05:28 <tagoh_> #topic F18
05:06:06 <tagoh_> well, thanks for creating feature pages we have 5+1 features proposed this time so far.
05:06:26 <tagoh_> pravins: any chance to have one for liberation?
05:06:59 <tagoh_> let's catch up one-by-one
05:07:21 <tagoh_> anish__: how about itb?
05:08:15 <anish__> tagoh_, it is ready for FeatureReadyForWrangler
05:08:21 <tagoh_> yep
05:08:41 <pravins> tagoh_: yes, i sent mail yesterday on Fedora devel regarding update of Liberation
05:08:48 <tagoh_> I see 50% complete now. so what's the next tasks to accomplish the feature?
05:08:52 <anish__> i am working on renaming ibus-hunspell to itb
05:09:05 <tagoh_> aha
05:09:12 <anish__> i need to import packages again
05:09:24 <tagoh_> pravins: yeah, thanks for that.
05:09:34 <pravins> updated .sfds are available in liberation master branch, thinking to release it tomorrow
05:09:56 <anish__> and need to submit for package review
05:10:33 <pravins> since we have LiberationSansNarrow with old license might be need to package it separately for now
05:10:33 <tagoh_> pravins: can you create the feature page by next meeting? in current schedule, feature submission deadline is July 24. we have about 2 weeks before that though, would be good to have one asap.
05:11:08 <tagoh_> pravins: ok
05:11:23 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Typing-Booster
05:11:25 <pravins> tagoh_: yes sure, i will do mentioning what enhancements available in Liberation fonts 2.0.
05:11:44 <pravins> juhp: tagoh_ it will be good if you do small testing and give some feedback on mail
05:11:55 <tagoh_> #action pravins to create the feature page for Liberation fonts
05:11:58 <tagoh_> pravins: sure
05:12:06 <juhp> ok
05:12:41 <pravins> tagoh_: add testing as well in action ;)
05:13:29 <tagoh_> pravins: is there any test cases particularly you want to check?
05:13:31 <juhp> https://fedorahosted.org/ibus-typing-booster/
05:14:10 <pravins> tagoh_: hmm, good question. I am basically concern regarding Anti Aliasing, it is actually improving the hinting.
05:14:23 <pravins> but still want to know how users will feel about it
05:14:25 <tagoh_> pravins: I guess you need to mention that in the feature page too
05:14:40 <tagoh_> aha
05:15:25 <tagoh_> once the feature page is ready, we can do testing according to that
05:15:48 <pravins> tagoh_: looks good idea. will do it :)
05:15:56 <tagoh_> cool
05:15:58 <pravins> tagoh_: thank you
05:16:11 <tagoh_> epico: how about ibus-libpinyin?
05:16:28 <tagoh_> pravins: thanks!
05:16:37 <epico> integrated ibus-libpinyin with new libpinyin.
05:16:43 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ibus-libpinyin
05:17:05 <tagoh_> epico: cool
05:17:13 <epico> tagoh_, :)
05:17:52 <tagoh_> epico: the feature page says it's 20% complete though, guess you may want to update? what tasks you need to do to accomplish this feature?
05:18:12 <epico> sure, will update it.
05:18:15 <tagoh_> if there are any concerns, good to share with us
05:18:20 <juhp> yeah always good to have more details on the feature pages
05:18:30 <epico> okay.
05:18:41 <epico> most features are in ibus-libpinyin side.
05:18:43 <juhp> also needs to be submitted :)
05:18:55 <epico> will do it later.
05:19:03 <juhp> epico, yeah but this feature should also include ibus-libpinyin :)
05:19:03 <tagoh_> ah, yes. still FeaturePageIncomplete
05:19:20 <epico> okay, I see.
05:20:07 <tagoh_> I suppose the detailed description of this feature may need to be improved or better have more words
05:20:13 <juhp> it would be great to see a list of tasks both [done] and remaining (pending) on every feature page
05:21:03 <tagoh_> epico: are you planning to replace the default engine for SC with it right?
05:21:03 <juhp> actually wish the templates encouraged that more
05:21:11 <tagoh_> it would be good to mention that there
05:21:20 <epico> tagoh_, yes, and updated comps.
05:21:29 <juhp> ah yeah
05:21:55 <juhp> so all those things should be mentioned :)
05:22:24 <epico> okay
05:23:31 <tagoh_> #action epico to update Features/ibus-libpinyin with detailed tasks and changing the default engine for Simplified Chinese
05:24:14 <tagoh_> for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Fontconfig2.10, it has been approved by FESCo already.
05:24:43 <tagoh_> just waiting for some feedback on current snapshot. I suppose I'll have 2.10 in next week or so.
05:24:56 <juhp> nice
05:25:10 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FontconfigEnableAutohinting
05:25:52 <tagoh_> well, not yet submitting and nor starting to work. the changes itself is easy. it should be done by one line change in the spec file. but need to test a lot for all of fonts I guess.
05:26:06 <juhp> I guess it doesn't make sense to combine the two Fontconfig features?
05:26:08 <juhp> aha
05:26:32 <juhp> so quite high impact?
05:26:54 <tagoh_> juhp: I decided to have a separate feature because of obvious contingency plan
05:27:25 <juhp> I see
05:27:29 <tagoh_> juhp: dunno. it really depends on the fonts I guess.
05:28:13 <tagoh_> one may have much better hinting. in this case I guess it would be better use own.
05:28:30 <juhp> aha right
05:28:44 <tagoh_> have to think about how to estimate it's better or not...
05:29:02 <juhp> or better to call the feature just Autohinting?
05:29:05 <tagoh_> I meant testing plan
05:29:23 <juhp> okay
05:29:24 <tagoh_> juhp: aha
05:30:14 <tagoh_> well, the feature itself was available quite while ago. someone may has enabled it manually.
05:30:33 <juhp> ok - well just a thought
05:30:42 <tagoh_> just was wondering if it may mislead. dunno
05:31:12 <tagoh_> anyway, any further comments, ideas are welcome :)
05:31:34 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNOMEIBusIntegration
05:31:45 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: how about this feature?
05:32:41 <tagoh_> I think it would be good to make more clearer on testing plan and tasks that needs to be done.
05:34:01 <fujiwarat> I think it's a feature in f18.
05:34:13 <tagoh_> I suppose GNOME upstream has some development snapshot releases before 3.6 is out. in which snapshots this feature is available?
05:35:04 <tagoh_> it may affects our test days schedule.
05:35:14 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: yeah, we are talking about f18 features now :)
05:36:36 <fujiwarat> Any features are not upstreamed yet but under the patch reviews. Also needs to integrate ibus-xkb.
05:37:38 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: so what tasks is included in 60%? can you update the page with it?
05:37:56 <fujiwarat> Now I changed it to Category:FeatureReadyForWrangler
05:39:41 <tagoh_> hmm, benefits on this feature is only ibus-gnome3 is enabled by default?
05:41:03 <tagoh_> I think we need to change the behavior on imsettings for GNOME 3.6. it should be also mentioned in dependencies.
05:42:00 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: any comments for all of the above? :)
05:42:12 <juhp> fujiwarat, can you also add links to upstream patch/bugs under the Detailed Description or Dependencies and also list other pending work?
05:42:37 <tagoh_> no known concerns on this feature?
05:42:58 <juhp> I guess there must be a few at least
05:43:23 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: Added imsettings dependency.
05:44:05 <juhp> hotkeys?  default IMEs?  hopefully there may be IME menu items in the panel menu
05:44:44 <juhp> fujiwarat, do you think the latest patches will land before gneom-3.5.4?
05:44:53 <juhp> gnome-3.5.4
05:45:06 <juhp> then we might see them in alpha perhaps
05:45:48 <tagoh_> I guess there should be much more changes on this feature than the feature page mentions.
05:45:56 <juhp> yes
05:46:07 <tagoh_> should try to improve it
05:46:43 <juhp> if fujiwarat doesn't have time perhaps I can work with him on it
05:47:04 <tagoh_> honestly it's hard to me to read from this feature page what's done and what tasks need to be accomplished.
05:47:17 <juhp> I'd like to see all details and dependencies and risks clearly listed
05:47:26 <tagoh_> agreed
05:48:53 <juhp> probably rtcm can tell about what we can expect in 3.5.4 at least
05:49:01 <juhp> us
05:49:05 <fujiwarat> Actually my main purpose is to integrate ibus in gnome-shell and other enhancements are nice to have. for me.
05:49:31 <juhp> sure but we need to take wider perspective in the feature page I think
05:49:33 <fujiwarat> for f18.
05:49:52 <juhp> since it has wide impact
05:50:47 <fujiwarat> in case all features are integrated in f18.
05:50:55 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: does ibus-setup is still available and standard interface as usual in gnome 3.6 say? what kind of levels ibus will be integrated into gnome? there should be some question on this feature I guess.
05:51:41 * juhp hopes gnome-3.6 will still support fallback mode :)
05:51:52 <tagoh_> if there are any changes compared to f17 say, it should be mentioned there anyway.
05:52:53 <juhp> I guess the main development focus is still upstream at this point - hopefully after alpha release current status will be a bit clearer
05:53:15 <tagoh_> sure
05:53:19 <juhp> fujiwarat, anyway I am happy to colloborate on maintaining the feature page
05:53:25 <tagoh_> anyway, good to share much more on this feature.
05:53:29 <juhp> yes
05:54:12 <juhp> and would also appreciate input from others - maybe adding FIXME's and questions - also on the Talk page
05:54:26 <fujiwarat> Right. ibus-setup won't be accessible from GUI in gnome-shell.
05:54:34 <tagoh_> juhp: yep, good idea.
05:54:41 <tagoh_> #action fujiwarat and juhp to improve Features/GNOMEIBusIntegration
05:55:16 <tagoh_> okay, time to move unless there are any more in f18?
05:55:27 <fujiwarat> done
05:56:07 <tagoh_> #topic Bugzilla cleanup
05:57:06 <tagoh_> well thanks everyone who got involved this cleanup this time. finally all f14 bugs has been gone! we still have 18 bugs open on f15 though, I think it's good activities so far on this cleanup.
05:57:33 <tagoh_> still need to triage them though
05:58:19 <tagoh_> and just fyi we have over 100 bugs on rawhide again. if there are something we can have a look or helps, it would be always good idea to do so.
05:58:40 <tagoh_> #topic Input Methods
05:58:50 <tagoh_> any news, updates or concerns to share on IM?
05:59:20 <tagoh_> except we discussed the above?
06:00:30 <tagoh_> okay, move on then
06:00:35 <tagoh_> #topic Fonts and Rendering
06:00:47 <tagoh_> any updates on fonts and rendering?
06:01:35 <epico> cjkuni-uming-fonts and wqy-zenhei-fonts are updated for fontconfig warnings, and built for rawhide/f17.
06:01:36 <tagoh_> btw thanks everyone again, who worked out on fontconfig file updates.
06:01:53 <tagoh_> epico: yeah, thanks for that
06:02:04 <epico> tagoh_, welcome
06:02:44 <tagoh_> I think google-driod-fonts is only one that need to work. I suppose I'll help for that maybe.
06:02:56 <juhp> aha
06:03:07 <tagoh_> .bug 837534
06:03:09 <zodbot> tagoh_: Bug 837534 Malformed fontconfig config file - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=837534
06:03:17 <juhp> is it more than a rebuild?
06:03:21 <juhp> ah
06:03:27 <pravins> tagoh_: that change is really worth, thanks for fixing fontconfig
06:03:55 <tagoh_> anything more?
06:04:35 <tagoh_> okay, move on then
06:04:40 <juhp> I btw noticed that Droid Sans still seems to "take over" the desktop for Latin if installed maybe that is by design (OT?)
06:04:40 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
06:04:54 <pravins> .bug 839303
06:04:56 <tagoh_> juhp: aha
06:04:59 <zodbot> pravins: Bug 839303 [ta_IN] Submission of glyphs for Tamil fractions/symbols to be included in the Lohit Tamil fonts - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=839303
06:05:24 <tagoh_> juhp: is there a bug for that in bz?
06:05:25 <pravins> summary reporter proposing to unicode for using Lohit Tamil in Unicode charts for Tamil script :)
06:05:35 <pravins> s/summary/in summary
06:05:41 <juhp> tagoh_, I don't know - let me see
06:07:02 <tagoh_> pravins: is it really a bug?
06:07:29 <pravins> not bug exactly but RFE for Lohit to include those shapes in Lohit project
06:07:43 <pravins> i said last time that we will not include until Unicode approves it.
06:07:51 <tagoh_> sure
06:08:02 <juhp> tagoh_, I only see the old ja droid sans bug
06:08:06 <pravins> so just tracking may be, he can give same reference to Unicode as well
06:08:13 <tagoh_> juhp: okay
06:08:25 <juhp> but maybe maybe people want Droid to be default if installed, shrug
06:08:43 <pravins> yesterday ankit_ shown me new font https://github.com/gujaratilexicon/  for packaging in Fedora
06:08:51 <pravins> i will package it this week
06:08:59 <tagoh_> pravins: aha
06:09:34 <juhp> (something pulled it in for me)
06:09:48 <tagoh_> juhp: hmm, dunno. hard to settle the priority issue on all of packages though.
06:09:53 <juhp> yeah
06:10:14 <juhp> don't really like packages that pull in fonts... :)
06:10:28 <tagoh_> IMHO even if all of fonts are installed, the default should be default.
06:10:37 <juhp> specially when they should the defaults
06:10:42 <juhp> right
06:10:49 <juhp> s/should/change/
06:10:49 <pravins> juhp: yeah agre, we make sure we will have basic supports for all lang and scripts :)
06:11:00 <juhp> perhaps I will file bug then later
06:11:02 <pravins> by default
06:11:10 <tagoh_> juhp: okay, thanks
06:11:26 <tagoh_> okay, anything more topics we may want to discuss?
06:12:18 <juhp> (at least now with fonts-tweak-tool it is easier for people to override the defaults if they wish in a predictable way)
06:12:33 <tagoh_> right
06:12:44 <juhp> though it could be more discoverable perhaps
06:13:14 <pravins> yes, we can directly point users to f-t-t if they are unhappy with default fonts
06:13:32 <juhp> yeah
06:13:35 * pravins remember big discussion on making Meera fonts default for Malayalam
06:13:47 <juhp> right
06:13:48 <tagoh_> of course it's majority, we should consider to change the default then.
06:13:55 <juhp> true
06:14:02 <tagoh_> okay, anything more?
06:14:09 <tagoh_> otherwise let's close the meeting shortly
06:15:32 <tagoh_> okay, thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:15:36 <tagoh_> #endmeeting