15:04:50 <jreznik> #startmeeting kde-sig -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2012-08-21 15:04:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug 21 15:04:50 2012 UTC. The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:04:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:04:57 <jreznik> #meetingname kde-sig 15:04:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig' 15:05:10 <jreznik> #topic roll call 15:05:17 <jreznik> hey ho, who's here? 15:05:24 <rdieter> hola 15:05:34 * jgrulich is present 15:05:38 <mbriza> me 15:05:50 <Kevin_Kofler> Present. 15:06:02 <than> present 15:06:53 <tdfischer> I'm here 15:06:56 <tdfischer> hola 15:07:41 <jreznik> #chair rdieter jgrulich mbriza Kevin_Kofler than tdfischer 15:07:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler jgrulich jreznik mbriza rdieter tdfischer than 15:07:58 <jreznik> #info rdieter jgrulich mbriza Kevin_Kofler than tdfischer jreznik present 15:08:31 <jreznik> #topic agenda 15:08:49 <rdieter> F18Blocker-kde bugs 15:08:54 <jreznik> theming, kdm preset... 15:09:17 <jreznik> anything else? 15:09:25 <tdfischer> I have something I'd like to squeeze in the agenda for discussion if thats alright 15:09:33 <tdfischer> making apper a lot more visible for a fresh install 15:09:37 <rdieter> tdfischer: yes please 15:09:56 <tdfischer> there's a lot of messy discussion in a kde channel about that, I figure I'd bring it up 15:10:03 <tdfischer> rdieter can probably find a lot of the backlog in -cafe 15:10:12 <rdieter> rats, I'm not in there atm 15:10:23 <tdfischer> ah 15:10:25 <tdfischer> no biggie 15:10:35 <tdfischer> lets continue with the meeting though 15:10:46 <jreznik> ok, so let's start with F18Blocker-kde bugs 15:10:54 <jreznik> #topic F18Blocker-kde 15:11:02 <rdieter> .bug 829881 15:11:04 <zodbot> rdieter: Bug 829881 Use polkit .rules files instead of .pkla files - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=829881 15:11:15 <rdieter> is the one I wanted to make sure gets addressed asap. 15:11:20 <jreznik> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=846844 15:11:31 * Kevin_Kofler had no time to look into this, too busy preparing his conference talk he held today, sorry. 15:11:42 <Kevin_Kofler> (into #829881) 15:11:46 <rdieter> ok, I forgot who, was hoping it wasn't me. :) 15:12:03 <rdieter> but I can look into it today later, if there's no one else able to do it earlier 15:12:14 <jreznik> good idea to solve it asap? any other volunteer? 15:12:16 <rdieter> I also have the new comps changes to review 15:13:25 <rdieter> hoping that this one and the newly filed 849990 are related 15:13:31 <rdieter> .bug 849990 15:13:33 <zodbot> rdieter: Bug 849990 Apper: Authentization failed when trying to install updates - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=849990 15:14:15 * jreznik is going to test it 15:14:41 <rdieter> hard to test/fix these things when the f18 tree is still in flux :-/ 15:15:19 <Kevin_Kofler> That's not the same issue. 15:15:21 <jreznik> rdieter: I have semi-working F18 KDE installation 15:15:32 <Kevin_Kofler> We have only one .pkla file and that's for setting the clock. 15:15:40 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: ok, rats 15:15:41 <jreznik> yep 15:16:00 <rdieter> jreznik: how'd you get f18? the 'yum update' from f17 method? 15:16:13 <jreznik> rdieter: fresh install from TC3 15:16:14 <mbriza> i have a working one but i'm not sure if i could fix that in bearable time 15:16:16 <jreznik> not easy 15:16:34 <jreznik> to get it working 15:16:39 <mbriza> i've done it via distro-sync 15:17:19 <jreznik> maybe it's related to 15:17:25 <jreznik> .bug 841451 15:17:28 <zodbot> jreznik: Bug 841451 polkitd doesn't start in rawhide - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=841451 15:17:43 <rdieter> oh, no polkitd would make polkit auth not work indeed 15:17:45 <jreznik> no polkit means no auth 15:17:56 <jreznik> but we are not sure we understand this issue 15:18:48 <rdieter> k, let's continue testing, debugging for now I guess, since we have no answers 15:19:18 <rdieter> seems then that 829881 is less important, if it's just for setting the clock 15:19:30 <rdieter> not an alpha blocker, imo 15:19:38 <jreznik> yep 15:20:06 <rdieter> imo, move on then 15:21:03 * jreznik is trying to reproduce it 15:21:13 <jreznik> next bug pls 15:21:18 <jreznik> (if any ;-) 15:21:47 <rdieter> there's one more firstboot-related blocker, but I don't think there's much we here can do about that one 15:21:57 <rdieter> so, next topic :) 15:22:09 <jreznik> rdieter: the firstboot affects us a lot 15:22:22 <jreznik> vpodzime is working on it 15:22:24 <rdieter> true 15:22:41 <jreznik> (actually two separate bugs - one anaconda - no /etc/sysconfig/l18n generated) 15:22:53 <jreznik> (and gtk3 gobject issue in firstboot) 15:23:45 <jreznik> and another proposed blocker leads to 15:23:48 <jreznik> #topic theming 15:23:54 <jreznik> mbriza: what's the current status? 15:24:08 <mbriza> i've filed an update 15:24:18 <mbriza> and as i have tested, it should be okay 15:24:46 * jreznik should test it too 15:25:10 <mbriza> there's the firstboot problem though, i have to start kdm as a service after logging on root 15:25:29 <jreznik> yep, firstboot is broken now but it's not an issue 15:25:39 <jreznik> we need the new theming in next TC 15:25:53 <jreznik> I'll take care, it's proposed as Blocker bug 15:27:05 <jreznik> so pls test the theme 15:27:29 <mbriza> that works, as i said 15:27:39 <jreznik> #info mbriza prepared f18 theming update, proposed as Alpha blocker 15:27:53 <jreznik> mbriza: you know :) better to check by more people, I trust you of course :) 15:28:02 <jreznik> next topic? 15:28:17 <rdieter> testing theming on different resolution screens always is good 15:28:30 <rdieter> jreznik: yeah, next++ 15:28:50 <jreznik> rdieter: I hope it's not problem this cycle, as we recycle old theming over and over (but still... different resolutions are different resolutions) 15:28:52 <mbriza> i don't trust myself :) i'll be more calm if someone confirms it 15:29:02 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: Yeah, I remember the KDM theme I did (IIRC fedorainfinity-kdm-theme) which was probably the most buggy ever. 15:29:14 <Kevin_Kofler> It had lots of resolution-related glitches. 15:29:31 <jreznik> next steps - QML KSplash and QML theme for LightDM-KDE :))) 15:29:48 <tdfischer> woo 15:29:49 <jreznik> actually I hope it should be less buggy than current theming... 15:30:05 <rdieter> woo woo 15:30:10 * jreznik hides, hopes Kevin_Kofler do not listen 15:30:16 <jreznik> does not 15:30:23 <Kevin_Kofler> … 15:30:55 <jreznik> but I'm not sure I'll have a time for it now... not easy to make fedora releasable :) 15:31:16 <jreznik> #topic display managers rework and kdm 15:31:24 <jreznik> any news here? /me lost track 15:31:44 <rdieter> jreznik: I think it's done 15:32:05 * jreznik should test it in his KDE F18 install 15:32:16 <rdieter> nucleo did some initial testing, we worked out one bug 15:32:53 <guest123321> .bug 847472 15:32:57 <zodbot> guest123321: Bug 847472 DM configuration migration on upgrade not working - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=847472 15:33:15 <rdieter> jreznik: oh, I think we have one thing to fix yet, supply some sort of present on kde spin so kdm gets enabled by default 15:33:25 <rdieter> s/present/preset/ 15:33:52 <jreznik> yep, we need preset 15:34:37 <rdieter> anyone know how to do that yet? (I don't, but could learn) 15:35:09 <mbriza> it's a config file somewhere in /usr/lib, i'll find the whole path 15:35:44 <rdieter> mbriza: could you file a new bug, against... hmm... spin-kickstarts I guess with the details? 15:36:16 <mbriza> okay 15:36:51 <mbriza> it's /usr/lib/systemd/system-preset/99-default.preset btw 15:37:09 <Kevin_Kofler> We should probably ship some package (kde-settings-kdm-default?) which installs that file… 15:37:36 <Kevin_Kofler> Or do you think writing to /usr from the live kickstart is better? 15:37:38 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: I'd say it should be for everything, not only kdm 15:37:54 <Kevin_Kofler> IMHO, this really belongs into /etc… 15:38:59 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: etc is obsolete :( 15:39:19 <Kevin_Kofler> Huh??? 15:39:42 <Kevin_Kofler> This is not a distro default, it's a site default, which the KDE spin would only initialize. 15:41:15 <rdieter> kde-settings-kdm-default sounds reasonable, yeah, this can't be spin-specific come to think of it 15:42:03 <rdieter> I'd be curious how other spins are planning on handling it 15:42:08 <jreznik> rdieter: why not? the whole idea of presets is to be spin specific 15:42:14 <rdieter> esp what happens if > 1 'dm default" pkg gets installed 15:42:27 <Kevin_Kofler> That's why it should be in /etc, not /usr. 15:42:34 <rdieter> jreznik: what about dvd installs then? that's not kde spin 15:42:46 <Kevin_Kofler> Does systemd really require this file to be in /usr? :-/ 15:42:51 <Kevin_Kofler> (Then systemd should be fixed.) 15:43:00 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: let's not worry about implementation details yet 15:43:13 <rdieter> that's orthogonal to this discussion 15:43:21 <Kevin_Kofler> Writing to /etc from the spin kickstart is acceptable, writing to /usr, ewww! 15:43:34 <jreznik> rdieter: hmm, DVD... 15:43:56 <rdieter> or kickstart/network installs 15:43:57 <jreznik> let's ask lennart how he designed it for this situations... 15:44:05 * jreznik is running out of time... 15:44:07 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: DVD users will not get any presets no matter what. 15:44:24 <mbriza> should i file the bug anyway? as a blocker? 15:44:38 <rdieter> mbriza: yes, we need to fix it somewhere somehow. :) 15:44:54 * jaysonr is gonna try to work orthogonal into converstation at some point today now... 15:44:56 <rdieter> we just don't know the specifics yet 15:44:59 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: DVD still needs some generic DVD preset 15:45:43 <mbriza> okay, it's there: #850465 15:45:46 <rdieter> jaysonr: if you do, I have a shiny new geek membership card for you ( jreznik lost his not knowing who liebnitz was earlier) :) 15:46:16 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: Doesn't systemd do something sensible by default? 15:46:46 <jreznik> rdieter, Kevin_Kofler: let's ask lennart for clarification... 15:46:57 <jreznik> #action jreznik to ask for presets clarification 15:47:01 <Kevin_Kofler> Yeah. 15:47:06 * jreznik has to go now... anything else? 15:47:38 <rdieter> I'm guesing the default presets default to gdm, if it's present, but not sure how it's handled if gdm is absent 15:47:51 <tdfischer> just my impromptu agenda item of #850445 15:47:53 <tdfischer> .bug 850445 15:47:55 <zodbot> tdfischer: Bug 850445 Apper is really really hard to find. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=850445 15:48:07 <rdieter> right 15:48:08 * tdfischer filed it during the meeting 15:48:10 <halfline> rdieter: it's just a copy and paste of the prefdm code 15:48:15 <jreznik> rdieter: could you please continue as a chair? 15:48:16 <mbriza> rdieter: i think it just boots to console logging 15:48:27 <rdieter> halfline: oh, yay. then we should be mostly ok. 15:48:34 <rdieter> halfline: thanks 15:48:49 <jreznik> the default one? 15:48:49 <rdieter> #topic apper is hard to find 15:48:59 <halfline> rpm -q --scripts systemd for details 15:48:59 <Kevin_Kofler> IMHO it's easy enough to find. 15:49:04 <Kevin_Kofler> (Apper) 15:49:12 <tdfischer> Kevin_Kofler: read the bug 15:49:29 <tdfischer> you can't easily infer that apper is the way to install new stuff if you don't know about it as a new linux user 15:49:33 <rdieter> tdfischer: so, any concrete suggestions from the -cafe chat earlier 15:49:34 <rdieter> ? 15:49:37 <tdfischer> though I think it is pretty easy to find 15:49:42 <tdfischer> rdieter: some say a big icon on the desktop 15:49:46 <tdfischer> or making it a default menu item 15:50:03 <tdfischer> which would be a significant improvement I think over having it at the very bottom of the systemsettings dialog 15:50:19 <tdfischer> which, for a small display, means you need to scroll down 15:50:25 <rdieter> apper is in Administation/ 15:50:28 <tdfischer> or even the default non-maximized window 15:50:29 <tdfischer> right 15:50:37 <tdfischer> but adding it to the favorites would be great 15:50:49 <tdfischer> since otherwise, users won't have the slightest idea where to start looking for such a core feature 15:50:55 <rdieter> favorites... nod, that I could go for 15:51:53 <tdfischer> the discussion in there started probably 3 hours earlier and lasted a good two, where it was determined that it is probably the distro's fault the user couldn't install KAlgebra easily 15:52:14 <tdfischer> some argue that kde.org shouldn't really say "Heres how you install it", and should be more of "here's how you use kalgebra" 15:52:30 <rdieter> PackageKit-command-not-found can handle the case of trying to run it from the command line 15:52:36 <tdfischer> other arguments were that ubuntu does it really nicely with the software center being pretty much front-and-center in the unity UI 15:52:42 <tdfischer> right 15:52:51 <rdieter> when/if that ever works again (it's been broken on/off) 15:52:56 <tdfischer> in this user's case, she thinks the terminal is the black magic screen 15:53:05 <rdieter> k, true 15:53:09 <tdfischer> but for someone who uses exclusively GUIs, I think apper needs to be a lot more promiment 15:53:44 <rdieter> in a perfect world, would be cool if some krunner plugin could do the same thing as PackageKit-command-not-found does for the command-line 15:53:55 <tdfischer> totally 15:54:03 <rdieter> tdfischer: though I wonder if average/new users would use krunner much at first 15:54:17 <rdieter> but baby steps I guess 15:54:18 <tdfischer> I believe the kmenu search bar uses the same plugins that krunner uses 15:54:24 <Kevin_Kofler> Indeed, new users don't use KRunner! 15:54:28 <tdfischer> so it isn't as unrealistic as you think 15:54:32 <rdieter> tdfischer: oh really? 15:54:35 <rdieter> if so, neat 15:54:35 <tdfischer> iirc, yeah 15:55:10 <rdieter> but implementing that means work and coding, of course. 15:55:13 <Kevin_Kofler> Do new users use the Kickoff search bar? Do they even realize it's a search bar? 15:55:19 <tdfischer> yes 15:55:25 <tdfischer> that was what I was referring to by kmenu 15:55:30 <tdfischer> couldn't remember the name though 15:55:49 <rdieter> so, adding apper as a favorite I think is a first easy and no-brainer improvement in the short-term 15:55:57 <mbriza> sorry, guys, i have to go now, too, thanks for the advices and bye 15:55:58 <tdfischer> I think thats not really a relevant solution here though, as the user still needs to know what they're looking for 15:56:03 <rdieter> mbriza: ok 15:56:15 <tdfischer> but adding it as a default favorite shows them "Hey, here's how you do software stuff! Like android!" 15:56:31 <tdfischer> which I think is a very unobtrusive change that should be made 15:56:45 <rdieter> agreed, any objections? (just in case there are any) 15:56:55 <Kevin_Kofler> Yeah, favorite makes sense. 15:57:12 <tdfischer> I'm still looking into other ideas to making this sort of stuff easier, so this would just be a first step 15:57:20 <rdieter> #agreed add apper to kickoff favorites menu to help address bug #850445 15:57:31 <tdfischer> groovy ^^ 15:57:37 <rdieter> #topic open discussion 15:57:53 <rdieter> we're close to the end of our hour, any last thoughts before closing the meeting? 15:58:07 <tdfischer> none here 15:58:20 <Kevin_Kofler> None here either. 15:59:43 <rdieter> ok, thanks everybody, esp tdfischer for the nice suggestion(s) 15:59:46 <rdieter> #endmeeting