17:00:04 <jwb> #startmeeting FESCO (2012-09-26)
17:00:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 26 17:00:04 2012 UTC.  The chair is jwb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:10 <jwb> #meetingname fesco
17:00:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:00:10 <jwb> #chair notting nirik mjg59 mmaslano t8m pjones mitr limburgher jwb
17:00:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: jwb limburgher mitr mjg59 mmaslano nirik notting pjones t8m
17:00:12 <jwb> #topic init process
17:00:20 <nirik> morning everyone.
17:00:20 <pjones> hello.
17:00:25 <jwb> should be a short meeting today
17:00:37 * limburgher here, busy
17:00:52 * notting is vaguely here
17:00:55 <jwb> mitr said he wouldn't make it
17:00:56 <limburgher> will do my best
17:01:01 <t8m> hi all
17:01:09 <jwb> mjg59?
17:01:20 <t8m> mmaslano won't make it either
17:01:26 <jwb> t8m, ok, thanks
17:01:55 <jwb> well, we'll move on.  mjg59 will show up eventually
17:01:59 <notting> t8m: hm, i just saw her... (she may have something else scheduled)
17:02:05 <t8m> notting, yep
17:02:39 <jwb> #topic Followups
17:02:45 <jwb> .fesco 932
17:02:47 <zodbot> jwb: #932 (F18 Features - progress at Feature Freeze) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/932
17:03:08 <jwb> we don't really need to evaluate this until next week, but I thought i would add it quickly in case someone had something urgent on it
17:03:21 <mjg59> Here
17:03:29 <mjg59> Sorry, iwlwifi
17:04:24 <jwb> ok, so no comments.  good.
17:04:30 * nirik has nothing off hand.
17:04:42 <jwb> anyone have any other follow ups before we move on to the one thing we have to discuss today?
17:05:17 <jwb> #topic New Business
17:05:50 <jwb> #topic #952 become co-maintainer on gradle
17:06:00 <jwb> .fesco 952
17:06:02 <zodbot> jwb: #952 (become co-maintainer on gradle) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/952
17:06:42 <jwb> mitr said he was 0 on this.  it seems this is sort of a case of rushed non-responsive maintainer
17:06:47 <notting> hm, lkundrak. have we had non-responsive maintainer issues with him before?
17:07:03 <nirik> yeah, and he popped up on the devel list when pinged.
17:07:09 * nirik isn't sure how urgent this is.
17:07:17 <jwb> notting, i don't recall having issues before
17:07:29 <mmaslano> hi, what did I miss
17:07:41 <jwb> mmaslano, nothing really.  we're on ticket 952 now
17:07:42 <pjones> notting: he used to be the grub2 package maintainer and just sortof disappeared
17:08:02 <pjones> in like 2009
17:08:17 <jwb> grub2 in 2009?  i would have disappeared too.
17:08:29 <pjones> Well, it wasn't my idea ;)
17:08:42 <nirik> so, I'm a slight +1 to this, as it seems his missing/busy, so might as well add co-maintainer.
17:08:54 <notting> the reason he's asking for co-maint is to do an upgrade
17:09:02 <notting> the upgrade wouldn't land in f18, i think
17:09:13 <mojavelinux> if I may chime in, getting the maintainer for the gradle package sorted out is pretty important since Fedora has really be lagging here getting proper Gradle support
17:09:25 <notting> so doesn't seem like it would be time critical. but i'm not *against* it
17:09:38 <jwb> notting, but if it's not going to land in f18, why can't it wait for the full NRM process?
17:09:57 <limburgher> Agreed with jwb
17:09:59 <mmaslano> it doesn't seem to be critical, so I would prefer standart process
17:10:00 <mojavelinux> i may be overstating it, but we are potentially going to miss an opportunity w/ java developers if we let this go much longer
17:10:39 <nirik> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-March/164253.html
17:10:53 <jwb> hrm
17:11:01 <t8m> To me it looks like the standard process should have been followed by gil for some time already and we wouldn't be in this situation now.
17:11:06 <nirik> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=746391
17:11:23 <nirik> yeah, I think he has already been non responsive for a while.
17:11:36 <limburgher> He;s sort of hot and cold.
17:11:37 * nirik also thinks our process is too difficult to trac for people, so they give up.
17:11:55 <jwb> nirik, possibly, yeah
17:12:06 <jwb> ok.  i'm kinda leaning towards +1 here too
17:12:23 <notting> he said he's sent lkundrak e-mail, and he's posted on the list on sunday.
17:12:46 <nirik> as far as I can see the post in march never got a reply either.
17:13:31 <pjones> I'm leaning towards +1 on adding him as a co-maintainer.
17:13:49 <JSchmitt> reboot
17:14:14 <jwb> sorry, you're not authorized to reboot the meeting
17:14:19 <t8m> I am +0 and keep following the nonresponsive maintainer process
17:14:25 <jwb> ok, should we take a formal vote?
17:14:42 <jwb> proposal: addi gil as a gradel co-maintainer
17:14:47 <jwb> s/addi/add
17:15:02 <jwb> +1
17:15:06 <jwb> mitr was 0
17:15:18 <mjg59> +1 for pragmatism, but mostly meh
17:15:29 <notting> meh. 0 this week. ask again next week.
17:15:32 <mmaslano> +0
17:15:46 <nirik> +1
17:15:50 <mojavelinux> marek goldmann is not present, but I'm pretty confident he would +1 here since he's been mentoring/assisting gil
17:15:52 <t8m> +0
17:15:57 <pjones> If we're not going to do it this week, then we may as well go with what t8m said.
17:16:05 <pjones> mojavelinux: he's not a person who gets a vote.
17:16:09 <notting> i think by the  normal policy, next week is when the normal process would expire
17:16:10 <mojavelinux> oh
17:16:14 <mojavelinux> I wasn't sure
17:16:33 <notting> at least by a best-fit line of the nonresponsive policy to what gil has done already
17:16:49 <pjones> notting: fair enough.
17:17:08 <t8m> notting, yep, and he would become owner, not a comaintainer
17:17:20 <notting> (bug filed on 09-07, re-ping later, mail to devel list on 09-23)
17:17:40 * nirik notes that he owns a lot of packages.
17:17:44 <notting> proposal: continue non-responsive maintainer policy - will revisit next week if no suitable response
17:17:52 <limburgher> notting: +1
17:17:55 <t8m> +1
17:18:01 <pjones> yeah, +1 to following the policy at this point.  It's not too far out.
17:18:03 <jwb> sure, why not.  +1
17:18:06 * notting is +1
17:18:15 <pjones> that's 5.
17:18:16 <jwb> ok, that's 5
17:18:16 * nirik is ok with that too I guess.
17:18:31 <mmaslano> +1
17:18:58 <mjg59> +1 to that, then
17:19:19 <jwb> #agreed continue non-responsive maintainer policy - will revisit next week if no suitable response
17:20:04 <jwb> #topic Open Floor
17:20:10 <jwb> oops
17:20:12 <jwb> #undo
17:20:12 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x3524e890>
17:20:27 <jwb> sigh.  i suck at driving zodbot
17:20:34 <jwb> did i just undo the agreed?
17:20:42 <pjones> I think so, yeah.
17:20:44 <nirik> no, the last command...
17:20:44 <nirik> so the topic
17:20:45 <notting> no, you undid the open floor topic
17:20:47 <pjones> oh.
17:20:51 <pjones> well, that's better.
17:20:58 <jwb> ok good.  that's what i wanted
17:21:09 <jwb> #topic Next week's chair
17:21:21 <jwb> ok, so clearly i could use more practice
17:21:31 <jwb> i'd be willing to chair again if nobody else is really itching to do it
17:21:32 * limburgher whistles. . .
17:21:36 <mmaslano> I can
17:21:51 <jwb> ok mmaslano.
17:22:02 <jwb> #action mmaslano to chair next week
17:22:09 <jwb> #topic Open Floor
17:22:14 <jwb> ok.  now on to open floor
17:22:18 <jwb> anyone have anything?
17:22:35 <limburgher> Not here.
17:22:45 <jwb> i have a brief thing
17:22:58 <jwb> the existing ticket for refining the Feature process
17:23:20 <jwb> i haven't forgotten about it, but i'm holding off for a bit.  i might start with just proposing a new Feature page template
17:23:37 <jwb> to try and get rid of some of the duplication, etc
17:23:45 <jwb> anyway, just an FYI
17:23:47 <t8m> jwb, afaik jreznik started working on it but the work stalled
17:24:04 <jwb> yeah, seems a common theme with that whole area :)
17:24:14 <t8m> jwb, due to being busy with the alpha release
17:24:35 <jreznik> yep, sorry it was quite difficult during alpha and I did not have mood to start working on it :(
17:24:54 <jreznik> but I think we collected a lot of ideas with t8m, mitr and marcela
17:25:05 <t8m> jreznik, will you be able to do it before beta?
17:25:55 <jreznik> t8m: I hope so... I'll be travelling the next week but I really like to make it before beta
17:26:21 <jwb> ok, great.
17:26:39 <jwb> more open floor topics?
17:26:56 <jwb> if not, i'll end the meeting in 4 min
17:27:02 <gil_> hi
17:27:16 <jwb> hi gil_
17:27:25 * nirik has nothing.
17:28:03 <t8m> gil_, hi, can you please follow the formal process https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Policy_for_nonresponsive_package_maintainers
17:28:49 <t8m> gil_, we agreed that you're somewhere at the point 3 or 4 - so it would be easy to finish it
17:29:31 <gil_> yes did ... or not?
17:30:43 <gil_> ah ok thanks
17:31:51 <t8m> gil_, you'll also become owner of the package, not comaintainer
17:32:12 <limburgher> Unless you want others to be owners.
17:32:13 <gil_> ah ok
17:33:50 <jwb> ok, i think that about does it for the meeting
17:34:01 <jwb> next week should be a bit longer as we have the features to work through again
17:34:15 <jwb> and i think jreznik would like a review of the f18 upgrade stuff
17:34:36 <jwb> thanks for attending everyone
17:34:38 <jwb> #endmeeting