17:05:41 <cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-10-08
17:05:41 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct  8 17:05:41 2012 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:05:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:05:48 <cwickert> #meetingname famsco
17:05:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:06:15 <cwickert> #chair aeperezt cwickert nb
17:06:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert nb
17:06:16 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:06:16 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:06:26 <cwickert> #chair sesivany
17:06:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert nb sesivany
17:07:33 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:07:34 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:09:19 <cwickert> anybody else?
17:09:26 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:09:27 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:09:56 * rbergeron is here
17:10:06 <rbergeron> (though i am not famsco, i will just shut up unless called)
17:10:14 <sesivany> just three people today? :/
17:10:32 <cwickert> lets move nevertheless
17:10:44 * rbergeron does wonder how next week will fare while people are at fudcon, or if we want to do it "live from fudcon"
17:10:57 <cwickert> well, that is bad timing
17:11:13 <cwickert> it will be just *after* FUDCon
17:11:26 <cwickert> it's 7pm here in Europe
17:11:33 <rbergeron> oh. yes
17:11:38 <rbergeron> sorry, i was tihnking it was... earlier in the day
17:11:42 <cwickert> so people will probably be drinking :)
17:11:51 <cwickert> at least I hope so
17:11:53 <sesivany> rbergeron: I'm flying back home on Tue, so I don't care, but I guess most people will be on their way home.
17:11:54 <cwickert> or traveling
17:11:55 <rbergeron> well, we might be even if it was earlier
17:12:05 <rbergeron> oh, wait, i mean... I am sure we will all be responsibly returning home
17:12:06 <cwickert> anyway
17:12:20 <cwickert> of course we will
17:12:21 <rbergeron> yes, move onwards :)
17:12:22 <sesivany> rbergeron: :)
17:12:34 <cwickert> but for today, we should do some work
17:12:43 <cwickert> the agenda for this meeting is at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
17:13:52 <cwickert> lets start with out favorite
17:13:56 <cwickert> #topic Budget review guidelines
17:14:00 <cwickert> .famsco 281
17:14:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/281
17:14:34 <cwickert> so, do we have the policies from the different regions?
17:14:40 <cwickert> sesivany: where was yours?
17:14:46 <sesivany> cwickert: did we finally agree that the hard limit is $2000 and regions can make their rules under the limit?
17:15:04 <cwickert> yes
17:15:06 <sesivany> cwickert: moment, I'm looking for it...
17:15:31 <sesivany> cwickert: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EMEA/Reimbursement
17:16:02 <sesivany> it's just a draft, but the limits were agreed at the regional meeting.
17:16:23 * cwickert looks
17:16:27 <sesivany> we also agreed on the quorum for $500-1999: 5 emea ambassadors
17:17:03 <sesivany> cwickert: I basicaly took what APAC had and did a few adjustments based on feedback.
17:17:51 <sesivany> "Only Fedora Ambassadors can request funds or other needs (eg: media/swag production)" this will definitely go out.
17:18:12 <sesivany> we agreed that not only ambassadors can ask for such things.
17:18:19 * rbergeron applauds that
17:19:11 <cwickert> sesivany: I am more interested in the rules than in the process for now
17:19:21 <cwickert> so limits, number of FAms, etc
17:19:30 <cwickert> but what I see looks good so far
17:20:02 <aeperezt> !
17:20:16 <sesivany> cwickert: we discussed the limits and approval rights and people seemed to be ok with what FAmSCo proposed.
17:20:22 <cwickert> aeperezt: just speak up, no need for rules as we are only 3 people :)
17:20:27 <cwickert> sesivany: ok
17:20:43 <aeperezt> well sesivany it looks good
17:21:13 <aeperezt> on latam I was not able to make to the meeting so we could not make any progress on that matter
17:21:30 <aeperezt> but will push forward on it this wendsday
17:21:33 <cwickert> ok, when do you think you will be able to meet?
17:21:35 <cwickert> ah
17:23:27 <cwickert> ok, I have updated the ticket and linked both policies
17:23:32 <sesivany> aeperezt: you set rules that work for you. If there are not enough people at meetings or meetings are no so regular. You can make a smaller group - e.g. 3-5 most active people in the region.
17:23:37 <cwickert> the APAC one is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Reimbursement
17:24:37 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes that is the idea we had a rule setup but it may need to be arrange and see the limits
17:24:42 <cwickert> ok, unless NA and LATAM come up with something, there is not much we can do now
17:25:00 <cwickert> too bad both NA members are missing today
17:25:45 * herlo apologizes for being late
17:26:14 <sesivany> we were also discussing more flexible quorum such as 1 FAmSCo member + 3 ambassadors instead of 5 ambassadors, but we decided to go with the default option and we'll see how it works.
17:29:10 * cwickert likes the 1 ambassador rule
17:29:19 <cwickert> erm, famsco member
17:29:27 <cwickert> #chair herlo
17:29:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert herlo nb sesivany
17:29:47 <cwickert> herlo: did you and inode0 or nb come up with something about the budget?
17:29:52 <cwickert> for NA I mean
17:30:05 <herlo> cwickert: no, nb and I haven't met yet. I'm working on setting a time now.
17:30:22 * herlo isn't sure inode0 wants to be a party to this document
17:30:41 <Southern_Gentlem> info: nb was looking at pricing of media to get approval
17:31:18 <Southern_Gentlem> that is the only thing that normally we have that is over 2k limit
17:31:33 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: thank you
17:33:48 * rbergeron wonders if we really need to have famsco-level agreement on media purchases, but..
17:34:15 <herlo> rbergeron: it's more of a formality sort of thing. I don't think it's specific to media.
17:34:52 <herlo> rbergeron: tbh, NA does things differently, we're going to codify that difference.
17:34:54 <cwickert> lets not talk about the $ 2000 level any longer, it's fixed
17:34:58 <herlo> right
17:35:03 <cwickert> it's the PO limit and we cannot change it
17:35:12 <herlo> understood.
17:35:12 <cwickert> I don't expect FAmSCo to cause any problems
17:35:18 * herlo moves on
17:38:37 <Southern_Gentlem> and in the past we have always gotten a PO
17:39:01 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: thanks, this is understood
17:39:13 <herlo> cwickert: what else do we need to discuss here?
17:41:02 <cwickert> herlo: I am afraid not much
17:41:07 <cwickert> I need to leave now
17:41:20 <herlo> cwickert: no problem
17:41:20 <cwickert> or I am already doing other things at the same time
17:41:35 <herlo> let's just move to open floor then, shall we?
17:41:36 <cwickert> I will work in the wiki later
17:41:44 <cwickert> but we really need something to move on
17:41:49 <herlo> ??
17:41:54 <cwickert> policies
17:41:57 <herlo> cwickert: I thought we were waiting 4 weeks (now 3 weeks)
17:42:06 <cwickert> hold on
17:42:17 <herlo> unless I'm off on this discussion
17:42:19 <cwickert> we want to have something read for FAmSCo in one week from now
17:42:36 <cwickert> and in 3 weeks from now a final policy for every region
17:43:06 <cwickert> so if there are problems and we need to discuss them regionally, we *need* to have something from every region by next week
17:43:06 <sesivany> cwickert: +1
17:43:41 <herlo> cwickert: yes, so nothing needs to happen this week
17:43:49 <cwickert> and if a region cannot make that deadlinem please let us know
17:44:28 <cwickert> #info EMEA and APAC already have drafted their budget policies, NA and LATAM are still working on it. We need drafts by next week.
17:44:38 <cwickert> #topic Open Floor
17:44:43 <cwickert> anything?
17:45:22 <sesivany> not from me, looking forward to FUDCon :)
17:45:26 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert, ?
17:45:39 * herlo is good
17:46:31 <Southern_Gentlem> the NA will be setting down to set a budget for the next year at Fudcon NA in January
17:47:02 <Southern_Gentlem> so if the NA doesnt do anything we fall under the FAMSCO regs anyways  correct?
17:47:21 <cwickert> Southern_Gentlem: that's not what we are talking about here. we are talking about numbers but about policies
17:47:26 <rbergeron> Southern_Gentlem: re: the FAD?
17:47:33 <Southern_Gentlem> rbergeron,  yep
17:47:52 <rbergeron> fad budgets had traditionally been set/approved by max/harish/etc
17:48:13 <Southern_Gentlem> rbergeron,  not talking about the FAD buget in this case
17:48:29 <cwickert> I am afraid 3 different people are talking about 3 different things now :)
17:48:29 <Southern_Gentlem> as part of the FAD we are setting a budget for NA
17:48:32 <rbergeron> oh i see
17:48:50 <cwickert> rbergeron is falking about the budget for a FAD. that is up to the budget owner
17:48:53 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert,  to me Famsco is pushing the policy
17:48:54 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: yes, this is useful, but isn't what we are actually discussing.
17:49:02 <herlo> s/are/were/
17:49:03 <inode0> ?
17:49:51 <cwickert> Southern_Gentlem: strictly speaking the NA budget was always subject to FAmSCo rules, because these were the only rules we had. NA never followed them and did it on their own without any written rules
17:50:05 <cwickert> we now ask you to write down how you did it, that's all
17:50:29 <cwickert> Southern_Gentlem: ok for you?
17:50:32 <Southern_Gentlem> ok
17:50:41 <cwickert> inode0: your turn
17:50:42 <inode0> Ticket #318 has a bunch of +1's now and I am wondering what FAmSCo actually requires to approve the nomination? Does it need to be unanimous? Is it approved now?
17:51:10 <cwickert> inode0: FAmSCo does not nominate or approve new mentors
17:51:14 <herlo> inode0: good point. I think we can say that quaid is approved. Since we have those motions.
17:51:16 <cwickert> the mentors approve mentors
17:51:32 <herlo> cwickert: I thought fama did that which falls under famsco
17:51:33 <inode0> mentors nominate new mentors, famsco approves them
17:51:51 <inode0> as a last line of sanity check
17:51:53 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert,  Famsco has approved in the past
17:52:07 <herlo> inode0: I consider the +1s there to implicate a quorum once enough votes tallied. In this case, I think we already approved.
17:52:37 <inode0> ok, I just didn't know the rules if there were any about what was required :)
17:52:40 <inode0> thanks
17:52:42 <herlo> that was put into policy at the very beginning of this term iirc
17:52:59 * herlo probably could just formalize the approval, since he runs fama these days :)
17:53:06 <herlo> anyone have any objections?
17:53:24 <cwickert> herlo: I think you should send out a mail to the current mentors
17:53:32 <cwickert> or did you CC them to the ticket?
17:53:51 <herlo> cwickert: I can do that on the ticket when I write the congratulatory approval
17:54:06 * herlo sees no objections
17:54:25 <inode0> since famsco objecting to a nomination is touchy be careful cc'ing people on those tickets
17:54:27 <herlo> #action herlo will formally approve quaid as a new mentor and inform the mentor community.
17:54:38 <Southern_Gentlem> ok as NA i approve  quiad
17:54:54 <Southern_Gentlem> i dont know a mentor in the NA who wouldnt
17:55:00 <herlo> aye
17:55:10 <cwickert> is the new mentor process documented anywhere?
17:55:11 <Southern_Gentlem> NA mentor
17:55:13 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: he got a unanimous positive vote iirc
17:55:17 <inode0> yes, just a seconf
17:55:18 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors/NewMentors doesn't have any information really
17:55:27 <herlo> cwickert: I got some stuff from kital on it
17:55:36 <cwickert> please put it in the wiki
17:55:38 <herlo> it's not well documented
17:55:41 <inode0> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor
17:55:45 <cwickert> no
17:55:47 <herlo> cwickert: I think it is in th wiki
17:55:58 <cwickert> inode0: I mean, how to become a mentor
17:55:59 <inode0> it is well documented but not with details about what famsco requires
17:56:09 <herlo> right, that's what I am talkign about
17:56:10 <inode0> there is a warning box on that page that explains it
17:57:01 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert,  historicly mentors nominate mentors and then Famsco approved or disapproved
17:57:08 <cwickert> ok
17:57:24 <herlo> https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/mentoring
17:57:42 <cwickert> so that warning box and the link to the old famsco meeting minutes with the decision should probably be moved to  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors/NewMentors
17:58:17 <cwickert> herlo: can you take care if this? I suggest to not duplicate this information, only have it in one place
17:58:21 <herlo> okay, I can probably do that this weekend
17:58:29 <inode0> I think it is there because ambassadors just kept adding themselves to that page and it was intended to slow them down
17:58:33 <cwickert> ok, lets approve kwade
17:58:40 <herlo> cwickert: fama is probably the right place for it, actually. But the document there is old and doesn't contain much info on it.
17:58:47 <cwickert> proposal: Make kwade a mentor
17:58:49 <cwickert> +1
17:58:58 <herlo> cwickert: we already approved it
17:59:01 <herlo> look at the ticket
17:59:22 <herlo> we don't need to do it here too
17:59:30 <cwickert> did enough famsco members respond in the ticket?
17:59:48 * inode0 needs to leave for another meeting now - thank you for wrapping this up
17:59:57 <herlo> 5 +1s, so yes
17:59:59 <cwickert> do we need a quorum or even an unanimous vote to approve somebody?
18:00:01 <herlo> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/318
18:00:15 <herlo> cwickert: I swear we just went over this.
18:00:38 <cwickert> #info quaid is a new mentor. Congrats to him and the NA community for having him!
18:01:01 <cwickert> #action herlo to document the process how to become a new mentor *somewhere*
18:01:02 <herlo> I will have to find the meeting notes now, but I believe we agreed that we could vote on a ticket and it would be considered valid if a majority of famsco members voted on the ticket itself.
18:01:23 <cwickert> herlo: I prefer the Fedora wiki, people will hardly search fedorahosted.org/fama
18:01:34 <cwickert> but this is on you as you are doing fama now
18:01:39 <herlo> cwickert: yep
18:01:48 <cwickert> ok, I think that's all
18:01:54 <herlo> I will probably just link from newmentors on the fedora wiki or find a way to include it
18:02:07 <herlo> but we're good, yes
18:02:12 <cwickert> but this is another good example of how knowledge gets lost over time
18:02:13 * herlo thanks everyone for coming!
18:02:20 <cwickert> so lets codify everything in the wiki
18:02:31 <herlo> cwickert: will do
18:02:50 <cwickert> just in case we are getting eaten by zombies
18:02:58 <cwickert> ok, then lets end this meeting
18:03:00 <cwickert> #endmeeting