02:00:01 #startmeeting 02:00:01 Meeting started Wed Dec 5 02:00:01 2012 UTC. The chair is chanchito. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 02:00:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 02:00:12 #chair 02:00:12 Current chairs: chanchito 02:00:21 anyone here tonight? 02:00:25 #rollcall 02:00:34 here 02:00:37 yay 02:00:37 here 02:00:39 here 02:00:47 #chair dan408 02:00:47 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 02:00:54 * rbergeron is here 02:00:55 #chair graphite6 02:00:55 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 graphite6 02:00:59 #chair rbergeron inode0 02:00:59 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 graphite6 inode0 rbergeron 02:01:00 #chair inode0 02:01:00 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 graphite6 inode0 rbergeron 02:01:08 #chair rbergeron 02:01:08 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 graphite6 inode0 rbergeron 02:01:20 double chairs :) 02:01:21 ok let me slide over now that jon is here 02:01:23 chanchito: you can chair a bunch of folks at once 02:01:33 yeah i just figured that out 02:01:36 what a newbie! 02:01:41 sorry guys 02:01:42 * inode0 hasn't seen jon yet 02:01:52 i can run with it if needed 02:01:58 well, let me move out of the way so we can get started 02:02:02 please take over 02:02:11 give me a minute 02:02:33 please let's not go through tickets that we don't have updates on this week 02:02:41 ok 02:02:47 hi 02:02:59 #chair nb 02:02:59 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 graphite6 inode0 nb rbergeron 02:03:15 #topic === Announcements === 02:03:24 announcements anyone? 02:03:44 Isn 02:03:44 #info go vote now before it is too late 02:03:57 typing fail, ignore me 02:04:07 #link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting 02:04:28 any other announcements? 02:04:54 inode0: shall we skip tickets for now 02:05:17 I have a few ideas for getting something done tonight if we want to try 02:05:25 +1 02:05:27 +1 02:05:28 +1 02:05:29 oh crap i hadnt realized it was that late 02:05:39 #chair kk4ewt 02:05:39 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 graphite6 inode0 kk4ewt nb rbergeron 02:05:40 #chairmkk4ewt 02:05:42 ok, first I'd like to finish the t-shirt order 02:06:05 The Men's & Women's would be the same price of $6.10 ea XS-XL for Women & S-XL for Men and $7.85 ea 2XL-3XL for Men & Women. 02:06:30 If we can come to an agreement on a selection that comes in around $1800 I'll order them asap 02:07:00 are these T-shirts for giving away at events throughout the year? 02:07:01 * dan408 votes for a higher number of XL/2XL shirts. They seem to be most popular 02:07:04 These are splatter design and slightly cheaper than the last order of I F Freedom shirts 02:07:16 graphite6: yes 02:07:22 or until they are gone 02:07:29 gotcha 02:07:35 how do determine the mixture of sizes? since every US region is different, and we dont know who we will meet at an event? 02:07:51 well i have a idea 02:08:02 and some of the ladies will probably be diverted internally since Fedora women get the short end of the stick on t-shirts 02:08:03 #chair epico wrnash1 02:08:03 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 epico graphite6 inode0 kk4ewt nb rbergeron wrnash1 02:08:22 well, we can't guarantee everyone a free shirt at an event 02:08:41 chanchito: please don't chair random people that join the channel :) 02:08:51 sorry 02:08:52 there are some ratio guidelines I see on the interwebs but "shirt ratio for high school football team" may be slightly different from "shirt ratio for linux peeps" 02:09:06 10 S 20 med 25% 2x-3x 02:09:18 rest large xlarge 02:10:11 men's vs. women's? 02:10:40 i really dont think we should get womans to be truthful 02:10:48 chanchito: we have to guess based on experience I guess - they will all be taken regardless :) 02:11:03 kk4ewt: I think for once in our lives we should 02:11:16 is 3x really that popular? 02:11:22 yes 02:11:25 k 02:11:26 http://www.t-shirtforums.com/offline-retail-tradeshows/t1142.html 02:11:44 that's the UK 02:11:46 I think we should get a few 3x 02:11:48 people are skinny there 02:11:49 we didn't last time i don't think 02:11:57 * dan408 admits he has gotten a lot fatter in the last year 02:12:20 we have skipped 3X in the past and people ask for them 02:12:22 why not get women's - the most "difficult" thing is keeping it separate from the others in an event box - plastic bag with just a few works 02:12:29 i am pretty sure we're not doing a full blown half and half order 02:12:58 This is the curve that I've been using. I sell mostly to comic book and Dungeons & Dragons people and they tend to run bigger than most people. I don't have percentages for the 4X and 5X because they sell so slow that I don't have an accurate count for them yet. I am getting ready to order my first run of women's shirts and in a few months when my data gets to be more accurate I'll share those numbers too. 02:12:58 inode0: look at the registration of fudcon for the last couple years and that should be a cross section 02:13:03 S 13.5% 02:13:06 M 16.0% 02:13:08 L 19.0% 02:13:11 XL 19.0% 02:13:11 i don't see a problem with getting womens 02:13:13 2X 19.0% 02:13:16 3X 13.5% 02:13:16 * inode0 suggests getting 50 women's - sending some to known contributors and dropping the rest at events? 02:13:18 4X 4 units 02:13:21 5X 2 units 02:13:37 up the XL/2x and i'm +1 02:13:46 if that works out low we can get more next time :) 02:13:50 rbergeron: i have yet had anyone askfor 4x+ 02:13:58 inode0: they'd probably be rather popular at somtehing like grace hopper 02:14:01 kk4ewt: yeah 02:14:09 I think i've had one person ask for a 4xl 02:14:13 they won't last to that 02:14:19 maybe 25 women's shirts if just done 'internally" or 50 women's shirts if want some for events 02:14:19 I think up to 3xl is reasonable 02:14:21 inode0: yup 02:14:28 agree they won't last to grace hopper 02:14:36 i think up to 2XL is far enough 02:14:43 we should get a few 3x 02:14:45 imho 02:14:45 the sizes possible are the ones I listed, so 3X is the largest 02:14:47 no we should get 3x 02:15:05 as stated people have asked for 3x 02:15:26 chanchito: i've seen many 3x requests 02:15:43 i see 02:15:48 makes sense then 02:16:08 so, if we do 50 women's what sizes for those? 02:16:28 inode0: what brand are they? 02:16:32 * rbergeron assumes not american apparel 02:16:45 tough call 02:16:51 whatever all the others were probably :) 02:17:15 10% 3x 15% 2x 25% XL 25% L 17% M 17% skip small for men 02:17:23 inode0, Gildan I think? was what we had before 02:17:24 any small men here? 02:17:35 rbergeron: gilden brand probably 02:18:04 at least that's what mojavelinux says it feels like :D 02:18:18 we need a few S for men, I know several and some kids are in the picture too 02:18:19 * rbergeron has read 1-2-2-1 ratio quite a bit - small/m/l/xl 02:18:27 5%? 02:18:36 inode0: and smalls are reasonable when the women's shirts run out, sort of 02:18:41 small number like 5-10 02:19:33 all these percentages are nice but I'll need overnight to figure anything out 02:19:52 you will to figure the price anyways 02:20:06 * dan408 breaks out his calculator 02:20:18 motions that we spend 1800 on Tshirts 02:20:31 that is already approved 02:20:41 +1 02:21:04 it is where 02:21:19 * inode0 isn't going back to find it in logs 02:21:26 ok 02:21:39 $2000 is approved 02:22:12 my number came from the last couple years of Fudcon registration as a good cross section 02:22:26 graphite6: is it feeling like Gildan a good or bad thing? 02:22:57 i think the financial feeling 02:23:07 if it was AA shirts we'd be looking at a significantly higher cost 02:23:13 inode0: definitely better than american apparel 02:23:43 10% S 15% M 25% L 25% XL 20% 2XL 5% 3XL <-- does this seem somewhat more reasonable? 02:23:44 ok 02:24:01 or 25 for 2XL and 20 for L 02:24:13 I need women's first, then we can carve up the men's based on how much money is left I think 02:24:33 * dan408 doesnt know anything about women's sizes.. let's the ladies take over 02:24:42 lets* 02:25:00 It seemed when you asked earlier that lots of the ladies wanted smalls? or am I wrong? 02:25:12 personally I do a womens M 02:25:18 the feedback I got was more M and up 02:25:21 I meant that ladies get smalls when there are only men's shirts 02:25:33 but if they are women's shirts - yeah, M, L, XL 02:25:50 progress! 20 each? 02:25:50 * masta <-- very late 02:25:58 sure 02:26:01 #chair masta 02:26:01 Current chairs: chanchito dan408 epico graphite6 inode0 kk4ewt masta nb rbergeron wrnash1 02:26:09 a few smalls might be useful just in case but overall... 02:26:24 if we're just giving them out - I would say M/L/Xl would be wisest 02:26:34 i think an equal division if they are women's sizes are good for the first batch and we can guage from there? 02:26:54 leaving about $1400 for the boys 02:27:13 inode0: that seems reasonable 02:27:34 last time I know we got 250 regular sizes and 50 big sizes 02:27:47 inode0: +1 for women's distribution 02:28:03 +1 02:28:35 so we can get around 200 men's 02:28:49 let's get a quick distribution in actual numbers for those 02:29:04 if we decide we need more shirts later to cover some unexpected events, is there a contingency in place, or do we rely on leftovers? just asking for curiosity's sake 02:29:26 we order more as needed and as budget allows 02:29:36 ok thanks! :-) 02:29:39 so I have no idea when we'll order more 02:30:14 what does the distribution size for fudcon look like? 02:30:18 might be a good guage? 02:30:44 10S 10M 60L 60XL 30XL 20XXXL 02:30:50 let's see what that adds up to 02:30:58 dan408: looking at past fudcon lists? I have an old order from fudcon but they were for american apparel shirts 02:31:02 which run small 02:31:05 you have XL twice 02:31:19 i guess the 2nd xl is 2xl? 02:31:27 typo 02:31:38 rbergeron: no the current one 02:31:46 if we were to add around 20 more shirts where would you do it? 02:31:55 http://fudconlawrence-ianweller.rhcloud.com/ 02:32:01 there's a real guage for you right there 02:32:32 inode0: in M and L 02:32:58 * dan408 notes lots of L, XL, and 2XL 02:33:09 and a few mediums 02:33:19 inode0: L, maybe XL 02:33:26 * rbergeron seems to recall getting more XL requets than anything else 02:33:39 ok I will just adjust that to fit our budget 02:33:53 yes lots of L 02:33:53 thanks for all the help on this 02:34:21 sadly it isn't going to be very big number 02:34:21 my size changes though, depending time of year 02:34:26 L and XL will be about the same amount 02:34:31 60 or 70 L or XL will go fast 02:34:44 bulk up on the L and XL 02:34:50 ok, thanks 02:35:50 so what are the final numbers? 02:36:19 I don't know until I fiddle with the total which I am not doing any more during the meeting 02:36:35 a little higher than what I gave before 02:36:38 * nb trusts inode0 to come up with good numbers 02:36:43 +1 inode0 02:36:50 with more L and XL 02:36:55 +1 02:37:17 next topic? 02:37:43 tickets or skip? 02:37:43 Has the proposed events and corresponding budget been set for next year? 02:37:50 budget 02:37:52 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApBrbq5j6NbOdG0zQzVvR3VqQ05NaE5xaDdLOWh3a0E#gid=0 02:37:52 kk4ewt: you want to do budget generally or swag? 02:38:36 k 02:38:44 well if we can at least get a general budget 02:38:52 #topic === Budget === 02:38:55 that would give us some guidance 02:39:50 you want random suggestions here or go through things systematically? 02:40:34 * dan408 is indifferent at this point 02:40:39 what does MES stand for? 02:41:02 Major Event sponsorship 02:41:24 the events listed on the left hand side 02:41:57 colun A 02:42:09 gotcha 02:42:10 sorry B 02:42:42 we know media will cost us 11000 02:42:47 wow 02:43:02 Is there a common/standard amount used when presenting at a UG (like for providing pizza?) 02:44:28 i have found $50 to work fine 02:44:37 I think we do that (sadly) rather infrequently, but it would be nice to see more. 02:44:41 same for things like release parties. 02:44:53 more pizza! 02:45:14 graphite6: you will see VTLUUG installfest 50 02:45:30 ok, I really think the swag budget needs to be a lot larger 02:45:45 that is budgeted under minor events ,travel and rooms 02:45:53 * rbergeron thinks a PIE IN THE SKY ALL THE THINGS budget would be nice to see... 02:46:02 +1 rbergeron 02:46:04 I would like to shoot for increasing shirt production to around 500/yr - so let's say $3500 for shirts 02:46:28 +1 02:46:29 +1 to that too inode0 02:46:42 everyone can edit the page i have sent so have at it 02:46:54 case badges and laptop stickers we probably won't need this year but we should budget for those regularly 02:47:24 * inode0 doesn't recall what all this swag costs off the top of his head 02:47:35 we might ask for usb sticks in some quantity 02:47:48 i think we should wait until F18 is actually finalized before figuring out how much money to spend on media. For example, is there a working multiboot live dvd yet kk4ewt? Maybe we can switch to netinstall which would cost considerbally less on a CD? and then spend more on multi live and liveusbs? 02:48:00 dan408: we cant 02:48:09 we cant wait? 02:48:14 we don't need to wait - everything will work :) 02:48:19 LOl 02:48:36 inode0: if we get USB keys we should do it when I order the others for Summit 02:48:37 becasue to have media made we have to get a PO from Redhat 02:48:41 so we can capitalize on quannnnntity 02:48:46 +1 rbergeron 02:48:50 absolutely 02:49:10 kk4ewt: is there a working multiboot live image for 18 yet? 02:49:12 dan408: btw we have never had an issue with the multi-live 02:49:15 cards, any number of other swag 02:49:19 dan408, media has already been approved by FAmNA and FAmSCo 02:49:29 dan408: I don't think they make it until the end 02:49:32 i know, im just saying, things have changed with anaconda, big time 02:49:43 dan408: ORLY, you don't say :) 02:49:49 dan408: so 02:49:50 rbergeron: YA RLY 02:50:01 dan408, i'm just saying that that doesn't affect the multiboot process 02:50:08 no 02:50:11 we aren't paying anyone for media now, we are agreeing to pay $x if we decide to later 02:50:17 inode0, +1 02:50:18 sounds good 02:50:19 +1 02:50:46 11k to be decided where to spend it on what later then? 02:50:48 well, we aren't actually since famsco already has 02:51:01 btw, update on media: rbergeron is trying to get $newvendor added to the system 02:51:23 inode0, well, it was decided the amount of the PO for F18, which i think we voted on at a famna meeting, and then famsco rubber stamped it 02:51:33 but we can spend less if we decide to 02:51:54 let's not worry about that now - we have media in the budget based on history now 02:51:56 yeah 02:51:59 sounds good 02:52:09 so, if I and another fedora ambassador speak at Denver open source UG next year and would like to request $200 for pizza (40-50ppl) should I put that in the budget even though we'll still need to vote on approval for that specific event when the time comes? 02:52:30 no 02:52:49 We should have a blob allocated for $SMALL_EVENTS 02:52:56 so when i spoke at SVLUG 02:53:02 i took what I had with me 02:53:11 luckily i was resupplied and had plenty of swag 02:53:19 so i didnt have to request anything 02:53:32 * inode0 looks over at the budget 02:53:43 however that didn't cover any pizza or travel expenses (not that I care that much) 02:54:06 do we have to cover everything everyone does? 02:54:23 i dont know? do we? 02:54:30 no and we shouldn't IMO 02:54:53 +1 02:55:01 I mean, someone can cover a bart ticket themselves 02:55:29 so is that the typical routine/custom for small events, when you speak about fedora, you also supply some swag and maybe pizza? 02:55:44 swag yes, pizza no 02:55:45 i didnt supply pizza, but i did supply swag 02:56:07 but normally people do what dan408 did, just take some swag they have on hand 02:56:08 inode0: oh, my bad, I thought we sometimes sponsored UG meetings 02:56:15 it's generally nice for people to leave excited and have something to take with them and remember the event 02:56:21 when we got to speak about Fedora at them 02:56:23 graphite6: we do occasionally 02:56:23 And we have sponsored pizza and whatnot on occasion 02:56:29 depends on what it is, etc. 02:56:36 ok very good, just checking since i have 3 groups monthly, and have been wondering what to do promotionally speaking 02:56:40 I just meant you don't have to put it into the budget as a specific item 02:56:58 what's typical for that group's meeting type style, etc 02:57:12 i dont mind springing for pizza, once in awhile, if people will remember fedora 02:57:20 rbergeron, inode0: gotcha, I just though we were trying to get as specific/detailed as possible and introduce new events 02:57:27 we don't mind paying for it once in a while either :) 02:57:29 as long as i see interest, genuine interest 02:57:38 chanchito: +1 02:57:54 it'd be NTH pizza for the next SVLUG, but usually the core group buys the speaker dinner afterwards 02:58:06 graphite6: I'd like to say something like $4000 for UG support or something though 02:58:17 in this budget 02:58:24 graphite6: I'm happy to see new things - though I think when I said that i was thinking "larger events" - not necessarily recurring lug-type meetings - I hope that that kind of stuff is on our radar anyway, though we could certainly do more to encourage that type of thing 02:59:29 rbergeron: understood :) so are there new larger events we're considering (since I'm unfamiliar with the usual suspects) 03:00:04 I'd like to see $X for new events which may not be determined too 03:00:15 graphite6: um, not that i know of, but, it would be nice ;) 03:00:57 We spend $X on our normal events, also request $Y for expanding into new events 03:01:19 inode0: when is the $Y number due? 03:01:22 having some new events in mind would likely be very helpful getting that in the actual budget 03:01:44 as soon as possible I think 03:01:58 pretty much right now 03:02:33 rbergeron: want to suggest a deadline? 03:02:55 * rbergeron looks at calendar 03:03:03 * graphite6 works best when given imminent, specific deadlines :D 03:03:26 if we could come together with something concrete by the 18th, that would be lovely 03:03:46 * inode0 thinks this is really important in the long term 03:04:09 * graphite6 thinks she will go make this a ticket 03:04:39 +1 graphite6 03:04:50 * dan408 notes the time 03:04:52 okay shall we move to the open floor? 03:05:08 sure 03:05:12 * rbergeron agrees 03:05:17 about importance and open floor 03:05:29 #openfloor 03:05:29 * inode0 thanks everyone for helping get some stuff done tonight 03:05:35 #topic open floor 03:05:55 #topic === Open Floor === 03:05:58 anything? 03:06:00 anyone? 03:06:30 okay.. 03:06:37 * dan408 waits a minute 03:06:43 * rbergeron counts backwards from 87 03:06:50 * rbergeron hands dan408 a jetpack 03:06:58 woo 03:07:01 #topic == Who will be the next FAmNA meeting chair? == 03:07:08 anyone want to chair next week? 03:07:19 I can 03:07:27 +1 graphite6 03:07:46 okay 03:07:51 lol 03:08:04 #action graphite6 to chair the next meeting 03:08:10 thanks for coming everyone! 03:08:17 #endmeeting